₦airaland Forum

ollah1:
Bimffo, Ibime are sore losers on this one..

Bimffo:
Or please am I missing the meaning of Assist here


Cc: Airmark, Sleekdot, Ibime, Nihilist, hensben, Bigkesh, FBS, all of Una.

Am I missing the meaning of assist here?

Because if I go with my meaning of assist, Andres Iniesta Lujan does not have Up to 70 assist in all competition for both country and Club.

sleekdot:
With that stat last season he did well I only had problems when you his fans started comparing him to wayy better players

sleekdot:
Over 150 assists for barca meaning he was averaging double digits every season for the past 13 yrs from a CM position

Ibime:
I could swear you were talking about Iniesta here rather than Hazard.

I mean someone told us his purpose on the pitch is to dribble 5 men, not to score or assist.

sleekdot:
Iniesta has 3 strikers playing in front of him most times at Barca who were responsible for scoring

Who were the 3 scorers ahead of Lampard between 2003 to 2014

sleekdot:
So how is someone who plays behind 3 strikers equal to someone who plays behind one striker?

Thats why its foolish to say Iniesta and Hazard play the same role. In the role Hazard plays he is much closer to opposition goal than Iniesta

sleekdot:
Iniesta plays behind 3 strikers, Does hazard play behind 3 strikers?

Prove to us that Iniesta was not productive despite dropping over 150 assists for Barcelona

150 in 13 seasons thats an average of 12 assists perseason

Is that what you term unproductive? now tell us 5 midfielders who delivered over 10 assists per season for 6 years straight

Sone of you just jump into anything without giving it a thought of your own

thats how some were here shouting Iniesta didnt score or assist for a whole season now we ask them when and to put their money where their mouth is they fled

dmcdad:
Do they play in the same league? Have you forgotten that line?

Hypocrite!

sebod:
You don't need to use any derogatory word on an issue like this bro, nobody has ever insulted you in the course of this debate.
You respect Iniesta, you don't need to join the bandwagons to pull him down because of some certain people. You could have as well stuck to your opinion about him rather than joining in tagging someone you respect unproductive just to gain some cheap points. After all, no one has ever killed you for holding on to your opinion about Hazard, so why do you have to shift the post here to negate your opinion. You are not a f00l and surely nobody is one. Learn to pass your message without insults. One luv bro!

Nihilist:
Bro lets not go there....

Lampard is our legend...let us just respect him as such

dmcdad:
I once asked a question here but nobody, I mean absolutely no one answered.

What does Hazard do that Neymar doesn't do, or even do better?

Debroslink:
Neymar/Hazard feud is not worth discussing. It goes beyond goals and assists.
Keep Hazard out of this. Neymar, Iniesta, Zidane have influenced major finals like UCL final. Hazard should just go and polish their shoes.

Danhumprey:
actually,it is funny and hypocritical how many barca fans are ready to bandy stat around when arguing about hazard's goal/assist output but when same stick(stat) is use to judge a barca player,they go hay-wire. it is pure hypocrisy!




stats do not tell the whole truth! alot of things happens in a football match that stats alone do not show/explain.



that aside,it is absolutely ridiculous and laughable to call iniesta 'unproduct'/waste of space/useless. there are things that players like iniesta do in a game that the camera/stats do not tell/show,just like busquet who many people underate.


before judging iniesta,we should pause to look at a range of criteria to judge him with. for one,the system at barca emphasise patience and no rush to create chances or score goals. the system emphasise choking and tiring out the opponents with ball possession.



if you watch barca games indepth,you will see that iniesta is like messi,both are able to create something out of nothing even in tight space. that why you see 4 or 5 opponents surrounding iniesta,man-marking him. and when iniesta attract such number of opponents to himself,he frees up the other players,keeping ready and alert to recieve thorough-balls to score goals or assist. he use his dribbles and trickery to create chances for his team mates,just like hazard. that is why i dont understand the hazard's hatred/dislike by barca fans.



lets be fair,if you cant use stat to judge iniesta,then in the same vein,you have no moral right to use stat to judge hazard. EOD!

sebod:
Ohhh you mean the likes of Rooney, Ferdinand, Terry, Cole, Gerard and co selected from the best clubs in a supposed best league were average? And why could Lampard that was productive not make one of his great stats count while Iniesta despite being unproductive in a team of average players could? Lampard would give up all his robust stats to score just a world cup winning goal sir!

sebod:
Call them whatever you desire bro!
The comparison between Messi and CR7 started even when the later was still in England. His fans and loyalists believed he's was better because of his goals while Messi's advocates believed he was better because of his overall influence on the game. The duel got worse when CR7 moved to spain as he had to score loads of goals to keep pace with Messi who didn't necessarily need to score to prove anything as evident in his performance in the annihilation of Jose's Madrid then.
Hazard had a great season with Chelsea, and many started comparing him to the two who have always been rated based on their scoring prowess and better than Neymar. Don't you think his goals, skills and all round performance would be greatly put to scrutiny to stand on same level with the two guys?
Only if you are able to decipher my points though!

sebod:
Bro,
I only used that Rooney and Tores analogy to buttress on what stats can do without looking at what transpires on the field, it's not about berating one to praise the other.
You personally have concluded about not comparing Hazard with Neymar as they are yet to play in same league, so I don't even expect you to make any input to Lampard vs Iniesta because they too are yet to play in same league.
Since we have agreed Zidane is hugely praised today for his heroics for France and not for the club sides, I decided to weigh both Lamps and Iniesta on that same international duties.
While Iniesta played with mediocre players as Valdez, pique, Busquets and co, he still won major trophies for his country albeit not having a robust stats. Why couldn't Lampard that played with very good players such as Rooney, Gerard, Ferdinand and co even get to any of the finals albeit having a very robust stats?
Football is not all about stats bro, people know what they want!

Emaprince:
My question is: why do barca fans and dayo use stats to judge and diminish hazards good jobs in the field of play?

Iniesta is now on the receiving end of the same kind of criticism, story don change. Hypocrites!!

sebod:
The argument on Iniesta being vision less, indecisive and unproductive has been over-flogged and kudos to the guys-nihilist, raumdeuter, ibime, airmak and co for their input either in support or against the topic.
But, for the sake of those that might have been misled and misinformed based on the stats that have been put up, I decided to add my view.
Based on statistics
CR7 scored a total of 61 goals last season compared to Suarez 25 goals. Stats would tell us CR7 was more productive, but those that really saw Suarez play would agree his 25 goals won treble for the club.
Waney Rooney is the highest goal scorer for England with 50 goals while Tores only has 38 goals for spain. While stats would have proved Rooney as more productive, those that really followed the game would agree Tores' 38 goals have a world cup and European medals to show for it. So much for productivity.
Lampard, has more goals and assists than Xavi and Zidane combined, and one would have assumed he's the greatest midfielder based on stats, but we still have some on this forum that rate Xavi, Zidane and co ahead of Lampard.
Lampard scored 29 goals for England(including penalties and free-kicks), went to Euro 2004, scored 3 goals while England were eliminated by Portugal. He won the MOTM in a match against Paraguay without scoring at 2006 world cup and got eliminated by Portugal where he missed a crucial penalty.
He was also part of the team that got eliminated by Germany in the round of 16 at th 2010 world cup where he had a record of 37 shots on goal without scoring in a world cup tournament more than any other player since 1966 what is productivity?
Iniesta only has 13 goals for Spain in which he won back to back European cup while one of the goals won the world cup for Spain in their entire rich history. For a player that scores and assists less, there must be something special about him that got him applauds from all over.
Why couldn't any of Lamps 29 goals even take England to the final in any of the tournaments he played let alone wining any?
This is part of the post of Ibime on page 1829

In 1998, Zidane won WPOTY solely for his World Cup performance. How many goals he scored for Juve is irrelevant. The World Cup made him. Ronaldo De Lima and Alex Del Piero were BY FAR the best club players that season. Ronaldo was Serie A Player of the year for reference.

In 2000, Luis Figo was BY FAR the best club player in the World. Zinedine Zidane snatched the WPOTY based solely on the Euros. It was like a monumental disgrace when Figo did not win that year. Figo made so much noise about it, they had to feel sorry for Figo and give it to him the following year. You cannot remember that. How much he produced for his club is irrelevant. On club performance alone, he could not smell top 10 in WPOTY that year. Totti was Serie A Player of the Year for reference.
The world cup made Zidane as he won the tournament for France. He's praised and idolised for that. But Iniesta should be crucified for winning same world cup for his country. Zidane became famous for what he did for country more than club but Iniesta should be ridiculed for doing same for both club and country.
It's easy for someone who only relies on stats that can be gotten on the Internet to castigate Iniesta, but those that really watch him play regularly would never subscribe to that.
Lampard in Barca jersey would never have scored that much as you had claimed. He would never be the penalty and free-kick taker, he would never be able to shoot at sight regularly because of the style of play as emphasis are more on passing than shooting. Iniesta may not be as scoring or assisting as his counterparts, but what he brings to the field of play is what distinguishes him from the rest. 98% of the world tha have rated him so high couldn't have been blind to what you guys believe and I can say that even Lampard would give up everything he has including his wife to win half of what the maestro has won in his career.
There's no crime in hating someone as long as you don't bring such person down with your hatred. How some would hail Zidane, xavi and co and would pull down Iniesta is baffling. I don't like Drogba for anything, but that would not stop me from admiring his greatness and exploits as one of the best players Africa ever produced.
El illusionista is the don, hate him or like him, he has made his mark!

sleekdot:
This was where Hazard played

[img]http://1.bp..com/-sapBibdB7l4/U5sAx2kfHOI/AAAAAAAAA9s/DQbEWBoPBrY/s1600/lineup1415.jpg[/img]

This is where Iniesta plays

https://sharemytactics.com/44760/Barcelona-UCL-XI-formation-tactics.png

sleekdot:
Iniesta played to the left of a 3 man midfield and usually had 3 scorers ahead of him. Hazard played closer to the opponent box and never had 3 strikers ahead of him

When Lampard played in a 4-3-3 who were the 3 scorers ahead of him like Iniesta had?

sleekdot:
You said

Iniesta played in midfield in a 4--3--3 with Busquets and Rakitic. So How did Hazard play the same role? If according to you Hazard played the same role then thats why I asked who were the 3 attackers for Chelsea

sleekdot:
In Chelsea 4-3-3 who are the front 3 players?

bykebyke:
I think he meant European player of the year.(UEFA)

Debroslink:
Aduriz has destroyed Barca on 2 different occasions this season, so he's not different from Lampard there.

Yes, Drogba is greater than Henry and I'm a Blaugrana fan.

Biggest players are those who steal the show in biggest matches.

Biggest matches are world cup finals and UCL finals. Did Lampard outperformed Iniesta in such occasions?

bigkesh:
Workaholic for AM?? No way,why sell Ramirez then......
If Fab is in form we don't need a workaholic AM,we only need a very very good DM and a workaholic CM as Fabregas understudy


If we want to really dominate games,no better CM than Fabregas

Greatihex:
I say, sign James Rodriguez now. He will do it for Chelsea. That guy is good. He is just out of form just like hazard. We need someone to bench Oscar. Oscar can become a super sub. Leave Pogba and sign a player that will hunger to play for Chelsea. Pogba can be another Matic. Sign defenders in all the position and bring back some that are on loan. We need depth in our defence.