₦airaland Forum

triplechoice:
If you had made it clear at the beginning that your "experience of heaven " was subjective, nobody would have bothered arguing with you.

But you didn't do that and tried the make it seem everybody is expected to experience exactly the same thing after death, and then further used what's subjective personal experience, not proven, to label every believers as wise and non believers unwise.

What you did was to use what is personal subjective experience to pass judgement on others. That's not reasonable and the sad thing, you want to deny everything.


I still repeat, you don't understand your own op.

You're not getting it. Everyone can experience it here if they search for it. The experience is personal to those who search. It is a foretaste of what everyone MUST eventually experience after death.

Maynman:
If you do you’ll know personal experience does not count as “proof”

Read slowly: “If you eat rice and you get stomach ache, that’s not proof that rice causes stomach ache.” It was a REPLY to when you said “ Find your own proofs because I'm not responsible for your life.”

Your rice and stomach ache example should be taken at parallel to the discussion but you're talking about the proof of the cause rather than the proof of the subject.

Have you ever dreamt in your life? How would you prove to someone who has never dreamt that the dreams are real?

Maynman:
I’m not the one that needs it or asking “does stomach pain exist”

Neither do I need it nor ask you if stomach pain exists. What's your motivation for talking about rice and stomach ache on this thread?

triplechoice:
It's still meaningless as it concerns the op. Your submission concerns a large group of persons that are expected to act the same way, buy "red cap" because they're going to experience the same thing ; their heads cut off by a certain rumoured king who lives in a certain land "heaven" , and with all of them experiencing it only at death. That's not individualistic or subjective experience in any way.

I keep saying it, you don't even understand your own op.

An imaginary place,"heaven" is a no place because there's no evidence for it. And that's why I affirmed what I have affirmed.its as simple as that.

Why do you find it difficult to understand this simple explanation and keep asking for proof?


Look up a dictionary to learn the meaning of the word, imaginary .You don't seem to know what it means.

What you're have been attempting to do is to place the burden of proof on me for what you claimed which I rejected for lack of evidence. This is not smart.

You can't make a point or understand what people write without seeing things from their perspectives.

What you call imaginary is experientially to some people. It's only imaginary to you because you've not experienced it.

The experience is individualistic too. it's you and your life. And of course, death itself is subjective.

If you want to be clear, listen to people who have had a near death experience. Or, go near a dieing old man on his death bed. You'll learn many things by so doing.

Maynman:
A dictionary will make it better

Get one if you need it.

Or create a group to discuss about your rice and stomach ache.

Maynman:
Exactly, listen to your advice.

Smiles.

All is well.

Maynman:
I wish you a dictionary.

You can't wish someone what he already has.

Maynman:
Let me go and find my “own proof” that’s figurative

I wish you well.

Maynman:
And you are here to discuss “ does stomach pain exist?"

I'm here to discuss nothing literal about your rice and stomach ache.

Maynman:
What do you understand by figurative?

If you don’t know what “proof” means, I think you should find a dictionary.

Okay. I'm not here to discuss rice if what you said is literal.

Maynman:
You and who is talking about that?

This is what i said, read slowly: “If you eat rice and you get stomach ache, that’s not proof that rice causes stomach ache.” It was a REPLY to when you said “ Find your own proofs because I'm not responsible for your life.”

What you said is figurative, and I've stricken a parralel with it on the main discourse.

If you're here to discuss about rice and stomach ache, I think you should find the nearest lab to discuss that.

Maynman:
The question was never “does stomach pain exist”
You formed that in your mind, totally off point and shows desperation.

This is what i said, read slowly “If you eat rice and you get stomach ache, that’s not proof that rice causes stomach ache.” It was a reply to when you said “ Find your own proofs because I'm not responsible for your life.”

Are we talking about the cause of God or the existence of God?

Maynman:
How can there an effect without cause?

It’s not proof that rice causes stomach ache.

Stomach ache is not natural, so something definitely must have caused it.

You're not on track.

We're not disputing the cause. The question is "does stomach pain exist?" What caused the stomach pain isn't the subject.

Maynman:
Read again slowly: If you eat rice and you get stomach ache, that’s not proof that rice causes stomach ache.

I agree. But read my post again. We're not talking about the cause but the effect.

It's one proof that stomach pain exists.

triplechoice:
You're making me laugh . What's the meaning of "experiential and relational realm and very individualist in nature? You know it's meaningless, but just typed it to sound intelligent.

You don't need to do that. It wouldn't help you,but instead prove you lack the capacity to express yourself intelligently.

I have not made any unverified claims, I only made you understand that your heaven is imaginary as there's no evidence for it. That was a rejection of your imaginary destination..


You say you have evidence for it, then provide it so I can start making arrangements to buy a red cap" to prevent my head from being cut off,.

So, you come to this forum only to sound intelligent and not pass a message?

Let me break it down for you.

It's experiential. You can experience it. It's relational. You can relate with it. It's individualistic, you are the only one who knows what you see or feel.

Now having said that. Can you now prove to me that heaven is an imaginary place? At least, before affirming that to yourself, you must have proved it? Or are you dealing with an unproven affirmation?

Maynman:
I don’t think you know the definition of “proof”.

If you eat rice and you get stomach ache, that’s not proof that rice causes stomach ache.

But that's proof that stomach pain exists when the experience is distributed amongst a sizeable number of people in every generation.

triplechoice:
Proofs for what?
Why don't you answer that first?

We're talking about an abstract and intangible realm that's fully open to research. Meanwhile, it's also an experiential and relational realm very individualistic in nature.

Find your own proofs because I'm not responsible for your life.

And if you can't make the research, then keep on affirming your unverified claims if that's the wisest decision you can make.

triplechoice:
You don't need to expressly state something before people can conclude that you have declared something. That's called deductive reasoning.

You can't hide behind "I didn't assert anything" when you obviously did.

You have made our readers understand that there's a place people go to after death, which in Christianity is heaven, but what you're not sure of, is what they would find there, and so the advice they buy"a red cap" Is that not so?

If there's no such destination, and you didn't assert it, why already celebrating that believers are wiser and others stupid. You composed something you don't even understand.

The men in the story where set for a journey to distant land, and if there is no such destination in the first, is it not madness to buy a cap? Why should they buy a red cap if they are going nowhere?

Please answer me?

I have not rejected any God represented by the king in your story, but the destination, which in Christianity is heaven. Or where else are they expected to meet the king?

You just made a vague statement of having found evidence for something without mentioning what for. Is it for heaven or God?

Don't confuse yourself. I am not in a position to prove anything to you. You declared something to be true ,but now denying it .Maybe you don't even understand your own op

Even in many cases, deductions could be wrong.

I said "if in case, there's a God out there..." Now tell me how you deduced an assertion in that 'If'?

Would you now prove your assertion?

Maynman:
Post the proofs.

Why don't you take responsibility like I did, and find proofs for yourself?

triplechoice:
Don't run away from what you started.

If you think something is real or might exist and have not found any single evidence for it, then what you think only exist as a thought in your head and the heads of those who also think like you.

This is what it means for something to be imaginary, and that was why I asserted confidently that your heaven only exist as imagination.

The key thing here is evidence. Don't ever make the mistake of ignoring that, if not you would accept as truth any nonsense anybody tells you and end up confused .

And evidence doesn't always have to be scientific evidence, but at least something that can help others to validate your claim.


You're the one, not me, who has to prove that your claims are true or worth considering by providing any kind of evidence that can help to convince your followers.

Untill you do that, your heaven only exist as a thought in your head.

You see, I never waited for anyone to prove anything to me. My own life is my own responsibility.

I searched for proofs and I found. It's foolish never to search and yet make unverified assertions.

Maynman:
Flying tortoise is imaginary.

Would you prove or you wouldn't?

Maynman:
Which of the gods is out there? Brahma?

Shouldn’t you first prove that heaven is real too?
If you are asking me to prove that flying tortoise is imaginary, shouldn’t you first prove that they exist?

How can you prove a negative?

Since I've not yet asserted anything, those who assert must prove their assertion.

LegalWolf:
You made about 5 posts, I have gone through all and four of them are completely irrelevant.

Ideally, I should not be discussing matters of religion with a potential thief. At least, I am not the one who said an habitual liar is a potential thief. I read and heard the wise sayings amongst the Yoruba people [see: https://twitter.com/yoruba_proverbs/status/1326404292551454720?lang=en-GB]. In case you dispute this saying, you can take on that twitter handle and not me. However, this may probably my LAST direct response to you. If your response to my post is not based on logic, , AT MY DISCRETION you shall stayed ignored in perpetuity!

That said, this is my response to your interpretation below:

PART ONE

(all underlined mine)

First, this is laughable logic. I keep asking you what school did you finish from? We have read the entire 21 chapters, TenQ. Let us even zero it down to the specific Chapter 1.

Remember Judges 1 narrates the events after the death of Joshua (Judges 1:1)? Also, Chapter 1:17 - 18 talks about the same event and Judah's victory, is that not correct? In fact, a portion of the same verse 19 which your interpretation did not cover talks about Judah being victorious against the hill people . Go a step further to verse 20, ostensibly talking about the same event, and you will see that it was the victory of the people of Judah (in preceding verses 17 - 19) that enabled Caleb gain the land of Hebron as promised by Moses.

To drive home the point: the whole of Chapter 1 verses 1 - 36 expressly makes no mention of Judah's faithlessness. After Chapter 1 is 2, am I correct? And I suppose that they follow logical sequence. Is that correct to assume as well? If that is so, let us go on to Judges 2:6, this is what the Bible tells us:

The people served the Lord throughout the lifetime of Joshua and of the elders who outlived him and who had seen all the great things the Lord had done for Israel.

This makes perfect sense and gives and wholistic interpretation to Chapter 1 that AT THE TIME JUDAH WAS UNABLE TO DRIVE OUT THE PEOPLE OF THE PLAIN, YHWH WAS WITH THEM .

Again, let me invite you to read the following verses in Chapter 2:
10 After that whole generation had been gathered to their ancestors, another generation grew up who knew neither the Lord nor what he had done for Israel. [MY COMMENT: This is a generation of Joshua and the people who outlived him as mentioned in 2:7]

11 Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals. (MY COMMENT: This is the first mention of Judah's unfaithfulness in the Book of Judges and the beginning of Judah's travails. If there is anywhere before in Chapter 1, please direct my attention to it.]

12 They forsook the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused the Lord’s anger .

So deriving a spiritual message from a period when they fall into disobedience to explain their defeat when they were faithful is being clever by half.

PART TWO


This assumes I want to continue with you. My dear, what did I get the other time I continued with you, was it not forging a statement, putting it in inverted comma and ascribing it to me? Did you know how many times I've pulled you out for lying? I took the pains to correct your interpretation of the verse so others who have the privilege to come to this thread and come this far would see it (and as Hissplendor has once told me that I will only deceive myself if I think my response on a public forum is for the recipient).

PART THREE
You have repeated this in its variants countlessly. But I think I will just make one point



To be fair you actually beat me. However, not with facts but forgery, lies and more lies and many more lies. In that aspect of forgery and telling lies, you are truly my nemeses! I think that should make you smile to bed?

Hopefully, this should be my last post in response to you and Hissplendor

If you have Histrionic Personality Disorder, I can pull up reputable professionals who would help you out. But crying in my mention is no cure. I think you understand that?

Should I say Shalom or Salaam? You pick one!

You wrote so much but said nothing. Just beating around the bush.

It's been a waste of time talking to you. You're even drawing back to past discourses just in a bid to avoid the present one.

Saying this could be your last response to us is a stale tactic. We now what people type when they're about to run away.

Maynman:
You were the first to make assertions without PROVING it, yet you are asking for proofs when someone also made an assertion.

Is that not hypocrisy?

I didn't make any assertion. I only told a story.

I then said, "if in case there's a God out there..." Or did you read otherwise?

He came to say categorically that heaven is an imaginary place. Shouldn't be prove it?

Maynman:
The assertion that your religion heaven and hell exists needs to be proven then?

I was the first to ask for proofs.

Many Christians appear to hold to the mistaken belief that atheism is a cheap cop-out. Atheists are often viewed as cowards who don’t really believe what they say they believe; it’s merely a position that’s adopted for the sake of being allowed to live a life freed from any moral authority, it’s assumed.

“There is really no such thing as an atheist,” has smugly crossed the lips of more than few of my conversation partners over the years. That accusation was even thrown in my face several times by Christians when I was an atheist. Trust me, that doesn’t encourage atheists to listen to whatever else is said by the Believer, including any gospel presentation that might follow.

By God’s grace, though, I am no longer an atheist, having repented of my sins and placed my faith in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ over 15 years ago. Because of my past and present (and glorious future), I am frequently asked by those who are praying for atheist friends and family members, “What caused you to stop being an atheist?”

That’s a legitimate question derived from a worthy concern, and it deserves serious consideration. What does cause an atheist to break free from atheism?

The Sunday school (and correct) answer, of course, is the work of the Holy Spirit. All sinners who have ever turned in faith to Jesus have done so because the Spirit has replaced their heart of stone with a heart of flesh; they have been given new life in Christ. But, as true and reassuring as that answer is, that’s not the answer that people who are concerned for their atheist friends and family members want. They are looking for practical things they should be saying and doing as they share the gospel of Jesus Christ with the unbelievers in their life.

Unfortunately, that’s not really a question that can be easily answered with a series of objective truths that are practical in their implementation. My experience of renouncing atheism and turning to Christ is unique, as are the experiences of other atheists. Much of what the Holy Spirit used in my heart is neither repeatable nor advisable, like the time a fortune teller in New Orleans unknowingly took part in the destruction of my atheist worldview.

As a committed skeptic of all things supernatural, I entered the dimly lit parlor that reeked of incense solely to appease my ex who was Wiccan. She had offered to pay for it, after all. To keep her happy, all I had to do was sit there and keep my mocking thoughts to myself.

Settling into the hard chair as the lady turned my hands over, palms up, I knew how the “con” of fortune telling worked. When the fortune teller began by predicting that she could see great artistic success in my future, I knew that was simply a product of having working eyeballs in her head. Anybody with half a brain could’ve realized that I was in the arts in some product of having working eyeballs in her head. Anybody with half a brain could’ve realized that I was in the arts in some shape or form by how I presented myself. Except, as she continued, moving past the expected “well, duh” observational based predictions, the fortune teller began to reveal very specific information about my past and present. Information that there would have been no way for her to know unless someone had told her. I hadn’t filled out an information card prior to pushing aside the hanging beads and stepping into the room. No assistant had asked me questions about myself before I sat down. To this day, I don’t know if she was just a good guesser or something demonic was at work. Regardless, I’m thankful that the Holy Spirit used that fortune teller’s insights and words to help shake me loose from my purely materialistic outlook on the world.

However, I would never encourage anyone to take an atheist to a fortune teller. In fact, I would strongly advise against it.

The most valuable words of wisdom I can offer those concerned with the eternal state of an atheist is to be faithful in lovingly sharing the gospel and to pray and then pray some more. And don’t be afraid to say something as simple as “God loves you.” There is no way of knowing how the Holy Spirit is working in your atheist friend or family member’s heart; you have no idea what other things are being used as weapons to break his or her heart of stone. Even a brief word can be used by the Holy Spirit in ways that you could never predict. That’s what happened to me.

A few months before my encounter with the fortune teller, unsettled by the rampant hypocrisy and legalism among the political activists around me, I decided that I needed to renew my passion for progressive causes as well as reconnect with my counterculture forebears. A Jack Kerouac inspired trip, a la On the Road, was needed, I concluded.

Throwing my packed duffle bag onto the books scattered across the back seat of my Pontiac Grand Am, I traced my finger along the route highlighted in my giant atlas and began driving towards San Francisco. I was filled with hope and anticipation for what lay before me.

Like Kerouac, I made several prolonged stops along the way. And, again mimicking Kerouac, one of those stops was in Denver. along the way. And, again mimicking Kerouac, one of those stops was in Denver.

The Denver International Youth Hostel was one of the oddest youth hostels that I had ever stayed in. Odd in a creepy way that drove me out of my room as soon as I had chosen a bunk and unpacked.

Located just a mile or so from Denver’s famed 16th Street, I slung my bookbag over my shoulder as I stepped out of the hostel and began the roughly 15-minute walk. At the time, and maybe it still is, 16th Street was filled with chain restaurants and stores; not my usual scene, in other words. However, since I was hungry, I popped into a well-known casual dining chain restaurant and headed to the bar without even pausing at the hostess stand. I was hungry, irritable, and wanted to get out of there with as little human interaction as possible.

While placing my order, I barely noticed the man sitting two stools away. When he attempted to strike up a conversation, I was less than thrilled, wanting to read The Trial in peace while I waited for my black bean burger. He was persistent, though, and gregarious, so I grudgingly engaged him.

He asked me what I was doing and seemed curiously amused by my Kerouacian journey. During the conversation, I managed to let slip that I had grown up a preacher’s kid. He made some vague religious comments that I wasn’t really listening to, replying that I was an atheist. And that was that. Or, so I thought.

Paying my bill, I gave no thought to my unwelcome dinner conversation partner who had left a few minutes before me. My only goal was to walk back to my hostel so that I could get some rest before driving to the Garden of the Gods the next day.

It was late as I stepped onto the sidewalk. Turning in the direction of my hostel, I felt a hand on my bookbag. Assuming I was in the process of being mugged, I angrily wheeled around, ready to swing.

The man from the bar sheepishly stepped back, grinned awkwardly, and said, “Sorry, I was waiting to talk to you.”

He then asked if I minded if he walked with me. The whole thing felt weird to me, but since I didn’t own the sidewalk, I shrugged and replied, “I’m headed back to my hostel, man. Walk with me if you want.”

After a brief, awkward few steps, my unwanted travel companion stopped, looked at me, and bluntly said, “I want to tell you that God loves you.”

What?!?

I was stunned. Out of all the possible things I was expecting to hear in the middle of the night in downtown Denver, that was not it. He continued.

“Look, I don’t want to argue with you. I get the impression that you know more about the Bible than I do, but I felt compelled to wait for you to tell you that God loves you and someone is praying for you.”

With that, he turned and walked away.

Stunned, I stood there with tears beginning to stream down my face. In that moment, all I could think of was my mom on her knees praying for me.

I was also angry. Angry at that man. Angry at my mom. Angry at myself. Angry because those words were too specifically poignant to be a coincidence. Prior to that night in Denver, my atheism had been unassailable. But it felt like an unseen hand has just taken a tire iron to my worldview.

The thing that angered me the most, and speaking from my own experience, atheism was not something that I had arrived at lightly nor easily. Regardless of what some misguided Christians believe, turning my back on Christianity was not easy. It had cost me something.

My early childhood, when I huddled in my bed at night afraid because I thought that since I didn’t believe in God I was going to go to hell, cost me. My youth, when I worked hard to suppress questions and doubts because doing so made it easier for me to find an equilibrium that helped me navigate the strict rules of Christian fundamentalism. My turbulent years at Bob Jones University. All of it had been hard and painful at times. I didn’t become an atheist because it was easy. I became an atheist because I had looked at all the evidence and concluded that God did not exist. I did so only after fighting the “truth” I had been taught my entire life. Worse, emptying myself of the thing – Christianity - that had controlled and defined my entire childhood and my family meant that I had willfully placed a wedge between myself and many of those whom I loved. To be sure, my parents, family, and friends still loved me, but, whenever we were together, it was obvious that I didn’t really belong with them. That hurt, but it was a consequence of being honest, I thought.

I didn’t become an atheist because that’s what I wanted; I became an atheist because I believed it was the truth.

So, standing on that sidewalk while trying not to think about my mom praying for me, I cursed a God I didn’t even believe existed. That late-summer night in 2003 was the beginning of a nearly year-long fighting and cursing of God. That moment when that man told me that God loves me was the first cognizant moment for me that something was happening. Looking back over my life, that was the moment when the Holy Spirit began to reveal His work in my heart. The moment that signaled that God was initiating the downward slide that terminated in the end of myself and my finally turning to Him through repentance and faith in Christ.

So, yeah, to those who wonder what it was that caused me to turn my back on atheism, it wasn’t one thing. It was, first and foremost, the work of the Holy Spirit. It was the love of my parents who cared enough about me to share the gospel with me and pray for me without ceasing. It was the small word of a stranger in Denver.

Say something, anything, to your atheist friends and family members. Tell them that God loves them and that you’re praying for them if that’s all the time and courage you have. Share the gospel with them. Pray for them. Pray for them some more. But say something. You have no way of knowing how the Holy Spirit might use even the smallest act of love to break a sinner’s heart and bring them to repentance and faith.

Taken from:
https://www.christianpost.com/voices/how-to-convince-an-atheist-that-god-exists.html

triplechoice:
What is the meaning of the word imaginary?

Try to know the meaning first before asking for prove

You're not asked to prove the word. You made an assertion with all authority. It's the assertion that needs to be proven.

TenQ:
I expect him to start shouting about how the references I posted to the question is a lie and all the other tantrums rather than facing the truth.

You may ask him if any of the references or allegations I posted is true or not.

He has refused to answer. He's a wolf indeed.

TenQ:
Yes and no!

YES in the sense that it lis a satanic book that certainly would lead a person to Hell.

Qur'an 19:71-72
71. There is not one of you but shall come to it, that is, [but] shall enter hell. That is an inevitability [already] decreed by your Lord, [something which] He made inevitable and [which] He decreed; He will not waive it. 72. Then We shall deliver those that feared Allah and leave the wrong-doers there on their knees


NO in the sense that it is the Words of Mohammed feigning to be Allah.

Qur'an 69:40
because the Quran is certainly the word of a reverent (honoured) messenger.

Because of this, Mohammed can abrogate verses in the Qur'an. Mutah and five times of prayer are examples.


If Allah dictated the Qur'an through Jubril to Mohammed, Allah should know that women don't produce sperm gushing from their ribs and men's sperm does not come from the backbone. Allah should know that there is no mountain in the sky from which hail stones are cut and hurled to the earth. Allah should know that the sun does not set in the murky waters. Allah should not legalise prostitution (Mutah) for Muslims and Allah should not reveal breastfeeding of adult men ten times by a woman (thanks to the tame sheep that abrogated the verses). Allah should not encourage a man to flirt with the wife of his adopted son and marry her to the detriment of Zaid. Allah then canceled adoption so that Mohammed's lust can be fulfilled.

The Qur'an is a book of contradictions. Can you imagine one verse canceling our another (abrogation).

Hmm. Islamic bondage is strong.

See how legalwolf is zealously defending this falsehood.

LegalWolf:
LOL! But you can spiritually understand the Quran right? Lol! You stink of hypocrisy!

I have actually rested my case with you but the potential thief has been ranting in my mentions and calling me to give credence to a thread that he created.

But just to point it out clearly here for anyone to see: As a matter of principle, I would not debate religion with someone who is fraudulent liar and a potential thief. I call him a potential thief because according to the Yoruba people (which I think he belongs to), an habitual liar is a potential thief. These are not my words but the wise sayings of the Yoruba people.

I pulled this potential thief out as a liar and I keep asking him to give me one reason why I should engage a fraudulent liar. At a point, I was asking that what gives me the comfort that if I engage him he would not lie again. Hissplendor saw the deadlock and came in between us so as to pass this potential thief's questions to me which I kept answering.

Alas! This potential thief went to forge a statement, put it in inverted comma, and ascribed it to me. And you expect me to answer any question coming out from the potential thief's mouth? He has just started wailing on his thread and he will wail more.

cc: Potential Thief TenQ

Is the Quran spiritual?

LegalWolf:
LOL!



Is this your kindergaten response or something else?



LOL! Or is it somewhere else? Please let me know if it is because this is laughable logic. Hissplendor yhwh was with Judah for crying out loud! Nothing in Chapter 1 VERSES 1 - 20 suggests that yhwh was not with Judah. He was with them and even helped them to win some wars Judges 1:17 - 18. The preceding part of 1:19 clearly stated that he was with with them to defeat the people of the Hill. He was still with them when they could not drive out the people of the plain because they had Iron Chariots!! This things are so clear

You are now citing Judges 4 when they fell into disbelieve AFTER the preceding event, and after othniel, Ehud and Shamgar has been raised to derive useless spiritual message from the above.

It would appear to me that yhwh cannot be logically defended. It is spiritual messages you will be deriving and not defending him on sound logical grounds. I think with you, I will rest my case too (since my faith invites us to think a lot not to believe rubbish).

You can enjoy the rest of your day and may yhwh be with you (exactly the same way he was with the people of Judah in Judes 1:19 )

And to the potential thief, may yhwh be with you too like the above and keep ranting.

cc: Potential Thief TenQ

Was Allah with Mohammed when he fought the battle of Uhud and lost not only the battle but his set of front teeth?

LegalWolf:
LOL!



Is this your kindergaten response or something else?



LOL! Or is it somewhere else? Please let me know if it is because this is laughable logic. Hissplendor yhwh was with Judah for crying out loud! Nothing in Chapter 1 VERSES 1 - 20 suggests that yhwh was not with Judah. He was with them and even helped them to win some wars Judges 1:17 - 18. The preceding part of 1:19 clearly stated that he was with with them to defeat the people of the Hill. He was still with them when they could not drive out the people of the plain because they had Iron Chariots!! This things are so clear

You are now citing Judges 4 when they fell into disbelieve AFTER the preceding event, and after othniel, Ehud and Shamgar has been raised to derive useless spiritual message from the above.

It would appear to me that yhwh cannot be logically defended. It is spiritual messages you will be deriving and not defending him on sound logical grounds. I think with you, I will rest my case too (since my faith invites us to think a lot not to believe rubbish).

You can enjoy the rest of your day and may yhwh be with you (exactly the same way he was with the people of Judah in Judes 1:19 )

And to the potential thief, may yhwh be with you too like the above and keep ranting.

cc: Potential Thief TenQ

Your tactics failed.

Ignored!

Answer the current question poised at you:

Did Mohammed really lost his front teeth? What was allah doing all the while?