₦airaland Forum

frumentius:
Quite puzzling. Also, it appears not all of them have been upgraded by the Israelis.

About eight or nine years ago the details of the Kenya government tender briefing for the upgrade of the AMLs were still available online. It was titled "AML-245 Vehicle Modernisation" and logged as part of a public database of similarly archived KDF tender requests which I haven't been able to locate since.

BTW, if anybody knows which web site I'm talking about and can post a link, I would be most grateful.

Anyway, according to my (admittedly hazy) recollection the request for tender said it was for the modernisation of 42 AMLs. Kenya purchased 82. Which means if accurate only about half the fleet was modernised by Israel. I don't know the reason for this.

There are currently three types of AMLs being operated by the KDF, which I've included photos of below: the AML-60, the AML-90 Lynx, and the Israeli upgraded AML-90.

The KDF AML-90s upgraded by Israel have the following distinct features, which I've circled in red: 1) the boxlike laser rangefinder, 2) new turret search light, 3) new squarish external gunner's sight assembly, and 4) new water-cooled engine with a very prominent exhaust louvre, similar to that on the Eland.

Henry240:
Here, Nigerian army EE-9 in combat. I promised you this photo.

That is a great photo! Thank you.

But it is of the 6X6 version of the Mowag Piranha, not the EE-9 Cascavel.

The main difference is the rear hull; the Piranha has two rear doors for the crew to exit while the Cascavel does not. Comparison photos below:

frumentius:
http://www.janes.com/article/68634/scaneagle-facilitates-kenyan-attack-in-somalia

I wonder why the AML-60s are missing their mortars in photos #3 and #4 if they're being deployed for operational purposes.

This is not the first time I've observed KDF AML-60s without their mortars while seemingly on ops.

Thought some of you Nigerians would like to see this.

Panhard AML-90 with Biafran markings at the Nigerian National War Museum, Umuahia, Abia State.

This AML is unfortunately in poor condition, perhaps as a result of being a battlefield relic. Maybe someday some one can restore it.

ActivateKruger:
If we do get it as a Casspir replacement, it would probably be the 4x4 long-wheel base variant.

I heard the Casspir/Mamba replacement project was put on hold due to lack of funding, is that true?

AML-90 Lynx of Togo

Berliet VXB of the Senegalese police.

I have always liked this vehicle, looks like a miniature Ratel.

It was produced with hydrojets and was supposed to be amphibious.

Fun fact: the SADF imported one of these for trials during the Ratel programme. They were testing its supposedly amphibious capabilities by having it cross a deep river. The VXB sank to the bottom near the halfway point and was no longer serviceable afterwards.

This incident was covered in a very interesting book called "The VAB family of armoured vehicles", by Marx Stefan.

Patchesagain:
I see the ring mounting

Turreted as standard?

Yes, fitted with a conical turret that had a single MG in it. Same as on the Panhard M3.

An original M3 imported from France to serve as the model for this vehicle can still be seen at Lohatla; it has the same ring mounting.

giles14:
I think the first should go to the biafran red devil

Yes, I thought of that. Hence why I wrote the Onsbok was the first purpose-built APC on the continent south of the Sahara.

According to my understanding Red Devil Types A thru D were improvised and built using a preexisting Bedford truck chassis type.

There's nothing wrong with that; indeed, what the Biafran engineers were able to do under sanctions and during wartime with such little resources is commendable.

But the Red Devils weren't purpose built APCs like the Walid and the Onsbok.

Onsbok APC.

This exact vehicle was the first purpose-built armoured personnel carrier to ever be manufactured in sub-Saharan Africa.

It is the second APC type to be built on the continent as a whole, since the Egyptian Walid was the first.

The Onsbok was made in RSA in the late 1960s using parts from the Eland series and based off the Panhard M3. Three were produced but the original prototype (this one) is the only known survivor.

The project was shelved due to the Ratel programme.

Odunayaw:
They r in storage
the ERC-90 Sagaie took its role

Okay so they are in mothballs, thank you for clarifying.

giles14:
wonder what happened to Nigerian EE-9

I have asked this question on the thread before, @Henry240 said they were still in service somewhere.

If somebody has a photo of a Nigerian EE-9 I'd love to see it.

ActivateKruger:
What did the Camerounians do to their Ratel, it looks slightly rugged - I like.

The cannon is new. It's a Yugoslav M55 A4B1 20mm swapped out for the old upside down GI-2.

Libyan militia EE-9 Cascavel

frumentius:
A cure for traffic jams !

Man, this brings back memories of overtaking those long convoys of Ratels and SAMILs on the N1 between Kroonstad and Bloemy.

Army of Cameroon V-150 Commando

I've actually been inside one of these and it's a very, very spacious vehicle for its size. Even the doorways and hatch openings are quite wide compared to other wheeled APCs I've poked around in.

Clearly built for big people in mind.

africaken254:
off topic :Devtac Japanese company has develop unique full-face combat assault helmet

That looks like it would reduce one's hearing ability and situational awareness, including peripheral vision.

But I'm sure the people who designed it probably took that into consideration.

chkil:
Mauritanian Army

just found a way to share more than 4 pics per post

Beautiful!

EE-9 Cascavel graveyard in Chad. These were captured as "spoils of war" from Libya in the late '80s.

jln115:
T72

Thanks.

Interesting, according to Wikipedia Uganda operates T-90s.

Here's a photo I've actually been curious about for a long time.

The people in the photo are Ugandan UPDF tank technicians. I cannot identify what tank is in the background, though. Most of the photos I've seen of UPDF AMISOM troops show them using only T-55s.

Can anybody help me out with this please?

EE-9 Cascavel MK II of Burkina Faso.

In my humble opinion one of the finest armoured cars of the Cold War period, along with the AML series.

africaken254:
during the iran/iraq war the main concern of iranian islamic regime was finding ammo and pilots,who could fly those jet.considering that most pilot were jailed due to suspicion of close links with the previous regime and some had even fled.with recent defence reports from iran,show they have being able to indigenously manufacture most part they would require to fly their western jets.to show how of good quality western aircraft have,during the iran/iraq war iran bought copies of mig-21 from china but they ground due quality standard while america made aircraft were still dogfight with iraq airforce jets

qaddafi was santioned by the west for more than a decade,but still today libya Mirage F1ED jet, Chinook Helicopters are still airworthy and being used by libya nation army in the on going conflict in libya

I think you're underestimating what it takes to indigenously manufacture the parts to a turbofan aircraft engine 100% from scratch.

South Africa could not do this in the early 1990s when it was still trying to build the Atlas Carver. And it had the most advanced aerospace industry in sub-Saharan Africa at the time, worth billions of rand.

It is easy to manufacture a copy of a rifle. It's a little more difficult to copy and mass produce the parts of a tank. It's very difficult to manufacture the parts for a complete jet aircraft, especially something as complex as an F-14 Tomcat.

You need the right tooling equipment. You need blueprints and diagrams.

Most countries that build indigenous parts for their foreign sources aircraft have these things. They also had the company which sold them those aircraft help them set up the factory and train the people working there. That is how Pakistan was able to make spare parts for its Mirage IIIs and keep them flying.

Iran has none of the above.

I'm not saying they haven't found some way to do it, just that I find it very hard to believe for the reasons above.

As for Libya they did not make their own parts for their Mirage F1s, either. The Mirages were all grounded due to lack of spares until 2011 when the NTC took over.

The Mirages were then restored to service as part of a 2012 defence cooperation agreement with France, which also provided new parts.

Source: http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=24052:france-to-modernise-libyan-mirage-f1s&catid=35:Aerospace&Itemid=107

LTGEN:
Israel ADMITTED to selling parts and weapons to Iran.

Yes, most of the engine parts for the Iranian F-4 Phantoms were sourced from Israel during the Iran-Iraq War.

There's even a Wikipedia article on the topic.

No doubt they made a healthy profit.

africaken254:
if as it is said that they were grounded due to santions,why wasn't some cannibalised to allow some to be airworthy at that like !? iran still has most of its western jets airworthy even during its intense war with iraq and to this day.they have being made airworthy by cannibalsing others for parts,indigenously manufacturing parts and components,also getting parts and components on the black market

I'm not as well informed on the Jaguar as some of the other aircraft enthusiasts on this forum, but I'd like to point out that the only reason Iran could keep its Western aircraft airworthy was because it purchases the (predominantly US made) parts for them on the black market at exorbitant prices. Some countries that are retiring old US aircraft probably allow their remaining inventories of spares to be sold to Iran through back channels.

I once read an interesting book about the Iran-Iraq War in which it mentioned the Iranian military has always had to spent several times the normal market price on spare parts for everything due to sanctions.

You can only cannibalise so many parts before you run out, indigenous manufacturing is impossible without the blueprints or the right tooling equipment, and black market parts are also quite expensive. Iran only did the latter because it had no choice. With the amount of money it spent on keeping those old aircraft operational, it could have purchased more brand new aircraft that were far superior.

Frumentum:
Don't forget Recce teams with Milan ATGMs in 1985 during Op. Wallpaper. And didn't UNITA receive Stingers from Uncle Sam?

Plus there were the elderly ENTAC wire-guided ATGMs in the '70s. I read an article about them in an old issue of Paratus one year.

Mostly mounted on Landys although there were a few experiments with putting them on the Eland 90s and 60s. The concept was derived from a very similar French project to mount missiles on their own AMLs, per the photo below. I suspect it was abandoned due to the fact that the bulky external mounts wouldn't hold up well to all the bundu bashing during external ops, which is the only time they were needed.

The Landys with ENTAC mounts were used during Op Savannah.

frumentius:
more...

Is it normal for those Ratel-60 turrets to be missing their armament like that?

frumentius:
Hrmnn, are these the ones upgraded by the Israelis?

Yes. The distinctive boxlike laser rangefinder looks to be a DANTE, which is Israeli in origin.

frumentius:
61Mech, your old unit entering Durban for Armed Forces Week.

Perhaps someone can explain to me why all the Ratel-60s in these photos are missing their mortars?

They've clearly been removed from the turrets.

Patchesagain:
.... women in the military... I cringe every-time.

The SANDF has some good female soldiers. One boeremeisie is a Gripen pilot. And there are some very accomplished markswomen I see making the rounds at the combat rifle championships who can outshoot a lot of male soldiers. It's part of a long tradition of women in the armed services that goes back to WW2.

Granted, there are a lot of women in the SANDF who shouldn't be there, but I could also say the same for a great many men as well!

When I was in Israel for a while I watched the tough, exceptionally disciplined female IDF soldiers (including some IDF Saffies) in action. There is a right way to put women in uniform without lowering your standards of fitness, discipline, and overall professionalism and there is a wrong way to do it.

Saffie women in uniform throughout history:

AML-90 Lynx in Burundi.

SANDF Ratel-90

frumentius:
The nemesis strikes again; GPS-guided mortar style!


I suspect the latter. They're very au fait with 21st century propaganda for an outfit espousing antediluvian ideas.


Those Denel top-of-the-line mortars have been exported to countries supporting supposedly moderate opponents to the Assad regime. There are pics of the Peshmerga sporting South African Y3 Grenade Launchers in Iraq/Syria; Houthis with upgraded Ratels & Elands in Yemen; Truvelo sniper rifles in Libya; etc, etc. UAE & Saudi incompetence knows no bounds.


As a Saffer in uniform, you don't have to convince me of the utility of mortars. When I was in the DRC, it was gob-smacking to observe our 81mm outperforming the D30.
And of course, our breech-loading mortar is something else.

The Houthis do not use Elands to my knowledge, only (French) Panhard AMLs.

The following photographs depict AML type vehicles in Yemen.

None of these are Elands, as they lack 1) the brushguards over the headlamps, 2) the upraised commander's cupola with vision blocks, 3) the additional radio antenna mount towards the front of the turret, or 3) the layer of padding on the exterior of the 90mm turret near the gun mantlet.

All Yemeni AMLs were purchased second-hand from France in the late 1990s and some were later upgraded in Saudi Arabia but at no point did RSA have anything to do with them.

However, if you did hear it somewhere on good account that the Houthis have deployed Elands I'm not discounting the possibility and would like to hear more on that.

frumentius:
Yes they bought the licence to manufacture from Denel. Posted the news item when the first examples came off the NIMR production line. All the gucci gear in the world means nothing if proper doctrine is not developed and one just hopes for victory Insh'Allah.

Is it an RG-35?