₦airaland Forum

basilico:
If one married a nine year today and had intercouse with her he would go in for a long stretch of time.
Allah all knowing,the creator looks like he did not know that civilised societies 1300 years later would jail his prophet.
Do I doubt Allah? Yea on this he failed

No comment, other than PLEASE READ THROUGH PREVIOUS POSTS!!!
Talking with ignorance breeds disgusting feelings

I also do not see any reason to answer the Pastor..., it is clear that he and his friends cannot discuss on an intellectual level. Just hate-filled rants from premeditated ideas.
Can't we just discuss open-mindedly?

PastorKun:
The issue of child marriage is not and can never be a mundane issue. It is a very deplorable, disgusting and ignominious act that should NEVER be tolerated in any sane society. It is a criminal act and who ever indulges in it should be condemned even if such a person claims to be a prophet.

Oga pastor, which one na. Na you go teach me my religion?

onetrack:
Atheist here. This whole issue of Muhammad marrying a 6-year-old girl is not a big deal from a historical perspective, as it is rightly pointed out that many cultures have accepted child marriage until quite recent times. I personally do not use the 'Muhammad-as-pedophile' approach, as he was a man of his time.

The problem is that Muslims hold up Muhammad as the role model for all of humanity for all time.

Whether or not some European ruler married a 6 year old back in the year 1400 doesn't really matter because nobody would consider him to be best man in history, worthy of being imitated until the end of time, unlike Muslims who are expected to try to imitate the life of Muhammad as the proper way of living. As a result, any Muslim who is against child marriage could be rightly criticised from a strict Islamic point of view. The Quran even gives instructions on how to divorce your pre-pubescent wife. Considering that Islam is considered to be final and unchangeable, this means that child marriage can never really be outlawed in an Islamic state. That, in my view, is a problem.

I would note that Christianity does not actually forbid child marriage either, and that neither religion forbids slavery.

Appreciate your openness. That is why i would reply you and ignore the other rants.
Your line of argument is quite impressive but you made major errors. In Islamic law, issues are divided into two: Religious and Mundane. We are bound to follow the Prophet in religious issues. In mundane issues, everyone is free to follow what he or his current society deems right.
Of course, you do not see Muslims riding horses and camels; you do not see Muslims living in deserts nor do you see Muslims wearing izhar (ancient Arab wrapper). These are mundane issues which are not legislated by Islam, rather, regulated. But in religious issues, they are both legislated and regulated. We HAVE TO pray the same way He prayed, fast the same way He fasted, on and on...

The issue of woman's marry-able age is the focal point of this discussion. As said earlier

The principle here is that you marry according to the definition of maturity in your locality.

This is because this issue is mundane.
Please note the difference.

Thanks for your openness, i wish it would lead you to guidance.
Goodluck to the evil ranters, i hope they would also get guided.

parisbookaddict:
U need to meet ifeann.

You guys have become master debaters on Nairaland, endlessly wasting people's time on directionless issues. Eagle-eyed predators carefully scouting for 'keko-keko' Muslims to capture alive or escape battered. I advice you get busy with better things as serious Muslims would not come to Nairaland for religious knowledge in the first place.

I also advice that you guys open your hearts for more sincere discussions, it pays; it always does.

Redoil:
there was never a time an adult of over 50 years was allowed to marry a child below 8 years but if you continue to argue then and i give up. Very sad

Myopic!!!
How strange?
I have a question. Sincere apologies, but have you passed through any formal education where you are taught how to present issues? Any Msc or advanced degree? If so, then i think you need a refund. Apologies once again.

Ignorance pardoned as long as your are open to learning. If so pls go through the link in the original post. http://www.thedeenshow.com/watch/2962/marriage-to-aisha

parisbookaddict:
when u refer to me spell my name correctly so I can see my mention.

I must warn u that I say it as I see it.. I don't believe in being sentimental or saying half truths.. I am NOT POLITICAL CORRECT.

u said "Women>> Pre-Islamic period had NO RESTRICTION on women and marriage. They had no rights and were regarded as inferior species (up till 2-3 centuries ago in Europe and America). Islam allowed multiple wives but brought rights, moderation and fairness."

●●●●● I know this. mohammed preached against burying baby girls and he standardized inheritance rights for women..women have always suffered.. even tho the bible especially the new testament makes it clear they are equal to men before Christ and must be loved by their husbands. Jesus also taught that monogamy is a principle of marriage. Mohammed says polygamy and sex slaves are allowed..their are a lot of issues with with islam on women. there is a verse on beating women..majority of hell people being women , women being less intelligent as men, temporary marriage, easy divorce, etc

before I continue I want to say I won't bother quoting verses because I assume u are not ignorant about your sources quran hadihs and their narrations. .but feel free to ask me to quote it


you said"
Islam is ***realistic*** and has rules. "
●●●●●●muslims often tell me this...they often use the word practical too. .

u don't realise this is the main problem with islam..don't u see the flaw in ur statement..
if u don't I can go further to explain..

Jesus says love ur enemies, marry one wife and pray for those who persecute u, don't deny him even with threat of death from others..among a long list of apparently unrealistic commands of love peace and keeping righteousness. .
this looks unrealistic and impractical. . this is one of the hundreds of reasons I know Jesus is divine and righteous beyond comprehension. no mere human thinks like this.. at least at that time..Mohamed definitely didn't 600 years later..


you also said something about slavery.. I have a topic on it here

www.nairaland.com/2161012/lets-take-look-slavery-contained

if u care to contribute.

At least let me acknowledge your civility. The world would be a better place if we can discuss issues like this without rancor.

Unfortunately, i am not interested in answering your new questions. I can see that you are a very active person on Nairaland regarding religious issues. If all the previous discussions did not give you answers, i have nothing to say.

@parisbo...
Welcome, i hope you would be a bit more civil than ...
I also hope you read the original post. The point here is not debating age of marriage but explaining its historical context.

Islam is ***realistic*** and has rules.
Women>> Pre-Islamic period had NO RESTRICTION on women and marriage. They had no rights and were regarded as inferior species (up till 2-3 centuries ago in Europe and America). Islam allowed multiple wives but brought rights, moderation and fairness.

Slavery>>Since time immemorial, slaves have had no rights and were absolute objects (almost non-human) of their owners. Islam regulated slavery through strict rules and rights. But of course, you do not expect that it would have been banned out rightly, who would have accepted that? Rather, it put several mechanisms in place to gradually reduce class gaps.
You can confirm from history that lots of former slaves became rulers, scholars etc over the 'free born'.

We are talking about facts here, please lets leave sentiments and think straight.

Bobbysworld28:
In ur own words Aisha at 9 was mature enuf for sex...? pardon me, but r u ok?
He married a woman 15 yrs older than him (maybe as a gold digger) and followed it up with pedophilia (as if the former justifies d latter).
Did he stop there? Nooo! He had several wives and concubines plus slaves dt he slept with. Kindly justify that recklessness.
The article tried to justify the man on vogueness of his time and I am free to extrapolate based on that.
Thank u

He had several wives and concubines plus slaves dt he slept with.

Absolute nonsense. Lets talk based on facts and not just hate-motivated speech.

Was initially thinking you were more mature. If you cannot use your head by reading the historical context, i am sorry I CANNOT HELP YOU. I would not reply you again on this.

@empiree: This is talk for another day.

[quote author=Empiree post=31140704][/quote]My brother, please lets not fall into the same hole these other people have fallen.
'YOU' do not accept! Na you be the religion?
We follow dictates of the religion and not what our 'mind' tells us.
From the other comments, you can see the level of confusion following the 'mind' can lead to.
True, hadith can be fabricated to attribute falsehood to the religion, but then, it is for the scholars to fish out and not just based on not liking/understanding it. I repeat, this hadith is authentic.

The level of hatred is pathetic.

@eyeview, nice analogies. Please use the same intellectual power to properly read the post. I did not manufacture the facts.
@pastorkun, ahaa pastor, the post is not too complicated to be understood. Blind hatred, please be delivered.
@redoi.. & bobby.. : please reread the post. You missed the point 100%. Some of the points are:
- A child in Arabia 1400 years ago is not our own definition of child now
- Even in today's world, age/maturity level differs in different places
- He married her after being with another woman (who died) for decades. Was he a womanizer?
Finally, it is not about doing what is in vogue. You can do what is in vogue as long as ***it does not contradict your religion***!
Unlike other religions, Islam is a culture with established (not by whims of religious leaders) principles for EVERYTHING. The principle here is that you marry according to the definition of maturity in your locality.
I hope i have simplified it enough. O ga o o o, people shaa.

@empiree, pls note:
- This is our religion and why should it not be discussed? The hadith is authentic. Pls seek for knowledge.
- Why do you have to 'trash' another person's religion?

>>> Did Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) marry a child? <<<

People wonder and ask,
Did Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) marry a child?
Was this a normal practice 1400 years ago?
What was the wisdom behind it?

According to authentic sources, the Prophet Muhammad married Aisha (RA), when she was 6 years old, and the marriage was consummated after she was 9. However, it is important to understand things in their historical context. For instance, it would be silly to ask, what kind of milk did they drink 1400 years ago. Or what kind of engine did they have back then.

Therefore, one must understand that things 1400 years ago were very different from now, times have changed and so humans. 1400 years ago, it was very common for women to marry at a young age. It is a historical fact that girls from the ages of 9 to 14 were married off in Europe, Asia, Africa and America.
For example:
Saint Augustine in 350AD married a 10 year old girl
King Richard II in 1400AD married a 7 year old
Henry VIII in 15000AD married a 6 year old girl

Even in the Bible, "but save for yourselves every GIRL who has never slept with a man" Numbers 31:17-18

According to Catholic Encyclopedia, "Mary the mother of Jesus was 12 when she married 99 year old Joseph"
Before 1929, Church of England minister could marry 12 year olds in Britain.
Before 1983, Catholic canon laws permitted priests to marry off brides at the age of 12.

A lot of people are unaware that in the Delaware (United States) in 1880, the minimum age for marriage was 7 years old and in California was 10 years.
Even now, the marriage age for some states are
12 for Massachusetts
13 for New Hampshire
14 in New York

At the time of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), those who refused his message tried every method and strategy to discredit him. They were always looking for opportunities to attack him verbally and even physically. Some of this verbal abuse consisted of calling him magician, soothsayer, crazy. However, they never thought to point out or object to his marriage to Aisha (RA). Why? Because it was the norm of the society, meaning it was completely normal.

Do you know that the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had only one wife, Khadijah, throughout the first 54 years of his life?
Did you know that she was a widow?
Did you know that she was 15 years older than him?
He (PBUH) spent his entire youth with her.
He was committed to her until and after her death by keeping ties with her friends.

What about Aisha, was she a child when she agreed to marry Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)?

Note: The age of puberty varies throughout different times and different places.

According to scientific references, "Girls might enter full-blown puberty anytime between the ages of 9 and 15" LiveScience.
Also, "The average temperature of the country is considered the chief factor with regard to menstruation and sexual puberty" Women:An Historical Gynecological, and Anthropological Compedium Volume 1, Lord & Bransby, 1988, p.563

So was Aisha a child? No she was not!
So what about the wisdom behind this marriage?
God always knows best!
But the marriage of Aisha (RA) was an instruction from God (Bukhari Volume 5: Book 58: Hadith 235)
Aisha (RA) narrated to us more than 2200 hadiths (sayings) of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
Aisha (RA) was exceptionally intelligent, and since she married the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) at a young age, she was able to learn so much from him. She later played an important role as a teacher, expert and interpreter of Islam
So there was so much wisdom behind this marriage!
For those who do not know the Prophet Muhammad (PHUB), He did not come to seek worldly pleasure, but he warned us against them!
His companion described him as a man of morality and they said he was shyer than a virgin in seclusion.
When believers asked him an awkward question, he would cover his face out of shyness.
He taught us that each religion is know for a kind of morality and the morality of Islam is Shyness/Modesty.


Transcribe from a DeenShow video
http://www.thedeenshow.com/watch/2962/marriage-to-aisha

http://leadership.ng/news/politics/399976/edawah-technologies-creates-new-battlefield-2015-campaigns
A Nigeria-based technology firm, Edawah Technologies Limited, has created a new battlefield in the electioneering process in Nigeria.

A statement issued by the Business Technology Manager of the firm, Oladeji Oluwaseyi Ibraheem, on Tuesday noted that attention paid to online political campaign and propaganda had never been this high in Nigeria as it is now.

According to him, the increase in political awareness had also led to massive increase in quality and quantity of online political discussions.

He observed that while some efforts had been made in measuring political buzz using polls, there were other complementary tools yet to be used.

“BuzzMentions Political Index was commissioned to give more insight into what people are discussing about the 2 major Presidential candidates of the 2015 Nigerian Elections, President Goodluck Jonathan and General Muhammadu Buhari.

“It aims to enhance understanding of political dynamics in Nigeria by measuring the tone and intensity of the online political conversations that are going on in this country.

“Unlike traditional polling, in which participants are specially selected and asked a series of questions, the BuzzMentions Political Index uses advanced natural language processing techniques to mine opinions of people from publicly available posts on Facebook, Twitter, blogs, local and international media,” said Oladeji Oluwaseyi Ibraheem.

It was modeled after ‘Twindex,’ an election enthusiasm tracker built by Twitter for the last US elections.

It is the product of a partnership between BuzzMentions and OpenAmplify. BuzzMentions media monitoring engine scans through news articles (local and international), blogs, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter etc for mentions of “Goodluck Jonathan” and “Buhari.”

The OpenAmplify Insights engine then analyzes mentions trying to detect the sentiment (emotion), age range of writer and language style.

OpenAmplify is a world-renowned NLP (natural language processing) text analysis engine with over 20 years of NLP research and 15 granted patents.

We are also tracking entities (person, city and organisation) in the posts so we can determine discussion themes.

The results are displayed on a publicly available interactive dashboard with various data blocks on http://election2015.buzzmentions.com.

Are you speaking based on emotions or fact. This is a research work, you can only counter with facts.
Please re-read their methodology if you did not get it right

The BuzzMentions Political Index
http://election2015.buzzmentions.com/
What
It was built to give you insight into what people are discussing about the 2 major Presidential candidates of the 2015 Nigerian Elections, President Goodluck Ebele Jonathan and General Muhammadu Buhari. It aims to enhance understanding of political dynamics in Nigeria by analyzing the tone and intensity of the online political conversation that is going on in this country. It is the product of a partnership between Buzzmentions and OpenAmplify.
more info - https://www.nairaland.com/2071299/buzzmentions-election2015-use-new-tool#up

The BuzzMentions Political Index
http://election2015.buzzmentions.com/
What
It was built to give you insight into what people are discussing about the 2 major Presidential candidates of the 2015 Nigerian Elections, President Goodluck Ebele Jonathan and General Muhammadu Buhari. It aims to enhance understanding of political dynamics in Nigeria by analyzing the tone and intensity of the online political conversation that is going on in this country. It is the product of a partnership between Buzzmentions and OpenAmplify.

How
It was modeled after 'Twindex', an election enthusiasm tracker built by Twitter for the last US elections. Buzzmentions media monitoring engine scans through news articles (local and international), blogs, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter etc for mentions of "Goodluck Jonathan" and "Buhari". The OpenAmplify Insights engine then analyzes mentions trying to detect the sentiment (emotion), age range of writer and language style. OpenAmplify is a world-renowned NLP (natural language processing) text analysis engine with over 20 years of NLP research and 15 granted patents. We are also tracking entities (person, city and organization) in the posts so we can determine discussion themes.