₦airaland Forum

Images from the scene of the crime indicates that the young lady was stoned to death before her lifeless body was set on fire. Just reminds me of the adulteress in the Bible the Pharisees wanted to stone to death.
2000 years later, there are still human beings that will stone a defenceless girl to death and burn her corpse.
Note: these perpetrators are just coming out of a month long fast.
The truth is that things like this begs a lot of question concerning the religion these perpetrators profess because check it, Sokoto state is ravaged by murderous "bandits" who kill and rape, but these same people that stone vulnerable people with relish would not exercise the same passion to rid themselves of the bandits among them. The implication is that these people view what that girl posted on Whatsapp as more grave than the killings around them. What else will make them reason this way other than indoctrination

When such things arise, it is the Muslims that should rise up to condemn the actors and go further to fish them out and ensure they are meted the harshest possible punishment otherwise the religion itself becomes complicit

Rest in Peace Deborah, and yes, nothing will happen to you by the power of the Holy ghost fire, for now you rest eternally among the Angels and Saints

O

Just like Tinubu, Atiku is too old for the job. Among the Northerners vying on the PDP platform, Tambuwal and Saraki are the most suited for the job but I will place Tambuwal slightly ahead of Saraki

johnkay1:
I don't see anything bad in abortion but the two players must co-sign paper indicating they want to get rid of the pregnancy.

The world is over populated and if we don't control it aggressively nature will control it for us which will be worse.

help control world population by killing yourself

ChinenyeN:
To answer the main question of this topic. I'll echo what RedboneSmith said. "Igbo" is primarily a linguistic grouping. Secondarily a "cultural" grouping and tertiarily an "ethnic" grouping.

The linguistic grouping is easy to see. It's not hard to identify a community that shares the same lingusitic innovations as modern Igbo. It is rather distinctive, once you analyze the lexicon and SAVO constituent order. Most Igbo speech forms are closely related, suggesting one primary proto-Igbo branch that survived in the area.

The cultural grouping only has relevance for modern Igbo-speaking people. I say this because we no longer engage with over 90% of our pre-colonial culture. All that is left is just a handful of things that survived into present day like iri ji, igo oji, ofo, etc, because they were shared by enough people and given enough relevance. However, even among these surviving elements, we see that not all Igbo cultures engaged in it. Is it iri ji? There are at least three communities I know of that do not historically do it. Is it igo oji? There procedure is rather different from community to community, and there are different beliefs with respect to the relevance of certain kola with specific numbers of lobes. Is it ofo? I know of at least two communities that do not have this "Igbo staff of office". Any reasonable person who encounters this will quickly understand that culture is a less-relevant tool for identifying what is "Igbo" and what is not. It's only because of the remnants that survive that we can even claim such a thing as "Igbo culture". Considering how independent the communities were, I would not be surprised if pre-colonial Igbo culture ended up being vastly different between specific regions, or possibly within a 5 - 10 kilometer radius.

Finally, the ethnic grouping is so much in contention that it is obvious all Igbo-speaking people do not share the same idea of what it means to be "Igbo". This ethinc grouping is relevant primarily for the group of communities that inhabit what is currently called the "SE geopolitical zone", and even then, it is still an afterthought for some communities.

Out of these three factors, linguistic, cultural and ethnic, the only consistent way to define Igbo is as a "lingusitic group". It is the only definition that is relevant to all Igbo-speaking communities.

You have aced it. It is very difficult to add anything to this. Thank you my brother for this post, i am bookmarking it already. Chebendigbocalm, your thread should close here, question has been answered

EjaikreTheViper:
YOU BE REAL IGBUDU MONKEY FOR IGBUDU MARKET

you be real Warri pikin

The SouthEast made the biggest mistake to elevate Nnamdi Kanu to a position of highest respect in Igboland. Now the monster they fed is going to comsume them all

bigfrancis21:
You made good points. Thank you for mentioning me in this quote.

As regard your question on getting banned, when you make extra long posts, the bot seems to flag such down as spam and it triggers the ban. Avoid making very long posts or posts with too many links in them.

On the Igbo identity, you did raise important points.

However, the Igbo story/history has been told mostly from the point of settlers and hardly from the point of view of the host communities. Igboland did experience plenty influx of people from other tribes/other language speakers. Back in the day there was no common ethnic identity. People's identity was tied to their villages and all people knew was the dialect that they spoke and the village that they came from. Onitsha and next-door Obosi did not see themselves as the same. Owerri and Mbaise too. People crossed linguistic boundaries into others, settled, adopted new languages and the identity of the village/clan that they found themselves in.

Speaking about migration, what has been failed to ask is, why did ancient Igboland seem to attract many settlers from Edo, Ijaw, Igala and even Yoruba? Igala people had a strong penchant and love for migrating downwards to Igboland. Texts about ancient Igboland indicated that the land was very rich and fertile for agriculture, perhaps some settlers migrated down to Igboland and settled for agricultural reasons?

Now unlike other major tribes, Igbo land had no central authority or king. Every Igbo village had autonomous authority over themselves. According to Bini history, majority of runaways from Bini land seemed to be fleeing persecution from their harsh Oba towards the East where they settled in Esan (E san fia - they have fled) land, all the way East to Ika land. Perhaps they found the lack of a central authority in Igboland (which would remind them of where they fled from) and the idea of being in control of their own affairs very attractive? The Yorubas who settled in Ugbodu Delta State have a similar history of fleeing persecution and these migrants fled towards the East where they settled. In today's language parlance, these settlers would be considered asylum seekers who sought refuge in Igboland, were granted refugee status and naturalized within their host communities. As it is with all migrations, the migrants all had to adapt into their host environment, linguistically and culturally especially if they had to be recognized as bonafide citizens of the land. In most countries today, USA, Germany etc. as a migrant applying for citizenship (not permanent residency) of these countries, you must demonstrate fluency in their native language to be granted citizenship. Being a citizen implies that you identify fully with the community that you find yourself in, in all ramifications. These migrants met native Igbo speakers when they arrived and they acculturated linguistically and culturally. In history, migrants barely displaced the native language of their host communities - they always had to acculturate into their host communities, however imprints of their original ancestry may remain. The exception to this is if the migrants met bare lands, took ownership and settled within (example Opobo Rivers State). The presence of Igbo language all over Delta Igbo indicates who the original owners were. The characteristic of modern-day Igbos travelling all over Nigeria to do business and spreading their language came after British occupation of Nigeria in the 1900s. Between the 1500s to 1800s when most of the migrations took place in Igboland, Igbos were mostly farmers, hunters etc. living within their villages and barely traveled out of their regions, except for those lost to slavery.

We do recognize that Delta Igbo area received and hosted several migrants from other tribes and the ancestry of these people are valid. The population of these migrants compared to the original owners was minimal, which further ensured that the host community native language prevailed. However, for the sake of simplicity what identifies you today is the culture and language that you currently uphold. If you speak Igbo, practice Igbo customs exactly the same as those across the River Niger, bear Igbo names etc. then you are classified as Igbo. Migrations to/from Igboland isn't unique to Igboland. It occurred worldwide in the past. England, France, Portugal, Spain etc. all have similar migration tales. Imagine the chaos that would be if a native speaker of Spanish from Spain with full Spanish names tells you he's British because his forefathers migrated from England in the 1700s. Or Louise de BeauRegard from France who speaks only French and practices French culture tells you that he isn't French but Spanish because his forefather came from Spain in 1876.

President Zelensky of Ukraine is a Ukrainian and identifies as Ukrainian and speaks the native language, however he is of Jewish ancestry. In other words, Zelensky is a Ukrainian of Jewish ancestry. Therefore, it is totally ok to say, I am an Igbo person of Bini or Igala ancestry. There is nothing wrong with that.

Great points. I like that we seem to be reaching a consensus.
Now, you must understand that the level of migration to the vicinity around the Niger River was massive as a result of the importance of this river to trade. The language spoken around the region would lead me to believe that the aboriginals were most likely Igbo speakers. It also seems very likely that the Igbo speakers around here either did not know how to explore the Niger or were not interested.
There was an obvious change in the sociocultural dynamics in most of these regions along the Niger, enough to markedly differentiate them from the other Igbo speakers as the culture of the people here became an admixture of the culture of multiple people including culture developed naturally to live the new reality. Also, the economic and political events of colonialization differentiated these people even further. The early acceptance of Christianity by the Igbos and the successful commercial understanding between the Igbos and the British in the late 1800s which led to the commerce consciousness of the Igbos left a defining mark on the Igbos too. Hence the average Igbo today is seen as a good trader and a Catholic or an Anglican. The western Igbo speakers were not so influenced.
The Civil war is the last event that fully differentiated the Igbos. This is not as the Igbo claim- that the so called Igbo denial os because the Igbos lost the civil war. It is because the majority of the Western Igbo speakers were not pro-Biafra(maybe mostly neutral) and did not have the war experience like the Igbos. So today, the fallout of that war: loathing/lack of trust for Yorubas, memory of the war passed to generation etc defines the Igbos but are not shared by many western Igbo speaking tribes

In conclusion, many Igboid speakers have evolved into tribes of their own as the independent Igbo clans of precolonial times have emerged as one Igbo people

ChebeNdigboCalm:
I had some work to do but now I am freer so sorry for the delay. Your argument would have been very good if only you remembered that all ethnic groups have these migration stories. Including eastern Igbo just with different names listed. You say that Igbo people do not have common ancestry. That is wrong. Igbo is simply so large a group as too have been able to diversify over time and simultaneously do not have empire ambitions (even those with a king). There is certainly record of them calling themselves that group name. You simply attribute them to somewhere in particular. No point in arguing in circles though.

Your argument is forgetting that Igbo are not close to being the only group of people who didnt fully realise that identity fully until the modern age. It doesnt mean they didnt exist as a people before the modern age. Only that Yoruba, Hausa and Edo peoples had more direct contact with white people and so their place in written history was cemented earlier.

The people you call Igbos today are not of a common ancestry, there is no arguing that fact. And Yes, the Igbo speaking people are perhaps not the only people who didn't fully realize the identity attached to their language before the present times but they are ones that didn't realize it in modern times. You hardly hear any Yoruba speaking people deny being Yoruba, even the Yoruba speakers carved into the Northern region e.g the Kabbas. Even some bilingual tribes in Kogi state that speak Yoruba as a second language proudly proclaim themselves to be Yorubas and are accepted by the core Yorubas as fully Yoruba

Post-slave trade(the 19th century)

Following the abolition of slave trade, the British, in an attempt to transit to more legitimate trade decided to make incursions into the hinterland. During the slave trade period, the whites did not go into the hinterland to purchase slaves but only dealed with the Coastal tribes who acted as middle. Therefore, even though most of the slaves sold at the Bonny and Calabar ports were Igbos, the free Igbos did not really have contact with the whites.
To promote legitimate trade, the British set up trade posts in the Igbo hinterland. These trade-posts. They would send European goods to these trade posts and receive payment for the goods later after they are sold. This opened up the Igbo hinterland to trade(the Igbos did not engage in distant trade before this time). This led me to conclude that the Igbos were the biggest beneficiaries of colonialism.

Why am I relating the above?

The colonial activities actually had an impact on the Eastern Igbo speakers dynamics. For the first time, they started moving out of their region to distant areas and started mass interaction with other people. Many moved all across the colonial Nigeria as business men and established themselves. Even though they went to these places with their clannish ways of life(they would hardly marry people outside their clan), they were seen as one- Igbos by their neighbours.

The English Example

The people of England are of at least 5 ancestries: Celts, Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Frisians. Now, after many years of internal wars from within and without, these people are united under one ruler. They have evolved to become the English people and i don't think any of them deny being English.

However, in the case of Igbo speaking tribes of Africa, there is no precolonial history of them being united as one people. Infact, different Igbo speaking clans were capturing themselves to sell as slaves during the slave trade era which is why most people sold as slaves from the geographical space called Nigeria today were Eastern Igbo speaking tribes. If the Igbos had a unifying factor or authority other than language, this would not have been possible. It is also recorded in historical archives that the igbos speaking slaves in those times were surprised when they were called Igbos.

The precolonial Igbo speakers were independent tribes with minimal mutual connection besides language and this affects them in Nigerian politics even today

ChebeNdigboCalm:
I have seen many claims about Igboland and a lot of identity crisis in Igboid people. I have come to the conclusion that most people who have heard of the people Igbo (including Igbos themselves) do not know what Igbo is in the first place.

For example, certain parts of Igboland which are not in the 5 SE states would look at how their dialect has a lot of differences from institutionalised Igbo. They will see the difference in culture with what is known as “Igbo culture” and they will remember a few oral pieces of knowledge that describes migration into their land. Then they will look at the fact that they are not in an “Igbo state” and say “we are not Igbo”. Now this is a clear signal that they never new what Igbo was. Because nearly every single one of the tribes in Igboland have all the different factors mentioned here and could have made an even more convincing argument if let’s say Anioma was in the 5 core states and Ibibio-Efik-Ejagham related Igbo were not.

Since Ndigbo were always decentralised yet are a large body, Igbo neighbours could be considered similarly to non-Igbo neighbours to a clan. They clan considered themselves individually and could form partners with anyone they pleased and also find enemies in anyone they pleased. They could also accommodate anyone they pleased. Hence western Igbo could accommodate Edoid people. Southern, Ijoid - you get the point. But also they could grow and develop alongside whoever they want.

Other tribes do not get reprimanded for “copying” yet Igbo because we are considered as a monolith. People can understand why Yakurr, Ejagham, Ibibio and Efik have similar culture but with Igbo clans who lived with them and developed with them suddenly the similarities are called “copies”. If they have something that is clearly Igbo derived that is called Igbo “oppression”. With the west side of Igboland people cannot see why western Igbo utilise coral beads. As if they were there to see how coral beads spread. Forgetting that it has always been a large myriad of tribes who wore coral beads and the vast majority don’t have nearly as much evidence of wearing it in pre-colonial as Igbo do.

Then the idea that there is this standard “Igbo” clothing. Igbo people have worn all manners of clothing and different tribes of Igbo wore clothes differently. And in fact a small few were inspired by more northern traders. However there seems to be an unwritten rule that Igbo are not allowed to be influenced by more Northern people. Yet Yoruba can, with things such as the agbada which has roots in Tuareg clothes. Igbo clothes were also indigenous and Igbo tailors and weavers could replicate any thing they saw. Including indigenously made pantaloons.

Then the ridiculous Igala origin theory for parts of Igboland when in reality Igala is a baby ethnicity compared to Igbo. As it was created in the 14th century by Wukari migration into Igboland and other ethnicities(it wasn’t only Igboland). And they even recognise that Igbo consisted of part of their creation.

Igbo is an identity marked by common ancestors, the Igboid language group, the 4 market days, the Igbo religion etc. It is the best way of describing this mass of ancestry and culture.

you have made a very intelligent analysis of the Igbo question. Most of your submissions cannot be argued against if we look at things as a snapshot of the present times. But I would rather go back in time to before colonialization and move forward to present times

As you would agree with me, in precolonial times, to the people regarded as Igbo today, there was nothing like Igbo identity. As you alluded, they were decentralized, independent clans having no central authority. There is also no record of these people calling themselves any group name. Therefore, there was little binding factor beside the mutually intelligible language they spoke(today known as Igbo) , though of varying dialects
There is also no proof that the people that speak Igbo today are of common ancestry. To the contrary, evidences abound to show that some igbo speaking people migrated from the Benin to their present locations, particularly the Western Igbo speakers and the Onitshas. In Aboh for example, the original dwellers of the land were the Akarais who were displaced by the edo migrants to areas around Aboh, where they live to this day. That this is the oral history of Aboh and the fact that the Akarais are known makes the Aboh migration story irrefutable. There are also some people that migrated form Igala region. Again at Aboh, which is a heterogenous community, there are families that know for a fact that their forefathers came from Igala(again,irrefutable), some Isoko, some Ijaw etc. So the common ancestry claim is false using the Aboh example
Now, i do not believe that a people have to be of common ancestry to form an ethnic group, and I also believe that there is an emerging Igbo identity, Infact, an Igbo identity has emerged already from people, probably of different ancestry, but not all Igbo speaking people belong to this identity and I will explain in subsequent post

Meanwhile, i do not know why it seems like i get temporarily banned from posting on the culture section sometimes?

Cc bigfrancis21

ChebeNdigboCalm:
To be an Igbo you must.
1. Have 4 market days.
2. Speak Igbo natively(we all have our dialects)
3. Be called Igbo by your neighbours.
4. Have ofo staff of authority.
5. Have Chukwu, Abasi or Olisa as the name for the supreme God.

The real question is why is Arochukwu more Igbo than Aboh?
I have written a thread about this if you want detail.

https://www.nairaland.com/7044340/what-igbo

I have opened your thread and find it interesting.I will engage you on the Igbo debate there. Suffice to pen it down here that Aboh is not Igbo

ChebeNdigboCalm:
Thank you for your ability to stick to being civil. I personally never denied that Aboh was also the name of a district. Lander wasn’t proven correct that Aboh is specifically Eboe. And others aren’t. What I am denying is that them being called Eboe somehow means that they aren’t Igbo. Or that Eboe and Igbo were really different.

all Yorubas are descendants of Oduduwa, all Jews are descendants of Abraham etc. Who is an Igbo?
What does it take to be Igbo? What is the definition of an Igbo?

chebendigbocalm and bigfrancis21, you guys have no idea. Lander was right and his findings were confirmed by Baikie. Aboh was the the Name of a town and district/kingdom. Infact, places like Ogbaru must have been under the sovereignty of the Obi of Aboh. And like I have told you guys, there are Aboh outposts that are in River state on the east side of the Niger river till today. Take note of these from Baikie:

Abo, the Eboe or Ibu of Lander and of Allen, is the name of a town and also of a district extending along both sides of the river..........The sovereignty, since the death of Obi, having, as I have mentioned, been partly in abeyance, many towns which were under his rule have ceased to pay tribute, and have become independent

Baikie only used the name Abò which is the name the kingdom is called by the people themselves as opposed to Eboe(pronounced Eh-bor), what Aboh neighbours call them. He never corrected Lander's understanding of the geography and sociopolitics of Aboh. He went further to reinforce the fact that Lander's Eboe(which he preferred to call Abó) was a district of the same name(Lander used Kingdom). However, after the death of Obi Ossai, Aboh went into decline and many towns that were part of the Kingdom ceased to pay tribute.

You guys lack of comprehension may stem from the fact that you do not understand the extent of the Slave trade era Aboh hence you for example find it difficult to comprehend why Baikie would say Aboh district extend on both sides of the Niger from Oru(Ijaw areas) towards Igarra(Idah), so you falsely conclude that he was referring to Igbo.

Chebeindigbocalm, we can talk about whether Aboh is Igbo now

ChebeNdigboCalm:
I want to bring this back. SW from them are Eboe people. Well Olaudah put it as “Oye-Eboe” which could still mean foreigners as we don’t know the origin of oyibo definitively, neither had the Igbo dictionary been put together at that time. But you said it meant Aboh traders in essence. Aboh traders coming from the SW…to Ashaka. That is the one thing it could not be.

Read Equaino's description of the people he Referred to as Oye-Eboe:

we call them Oye-Eboe, which term
signifies red men living at a distance. They generally bring us
fire-arms, gunpowder, hats, beads, and dried fish......They always carry slaves through our land

Now read Laird:

The Eboe people take up the river, powder, yams, beads, cloth, iron bars, and knives, These articles are conveyed to Bonny by the palm-oil traders, and thence pass through the hands of three or four merchants into the possession of the Eboe dealers. They receive in return, slaves.
With the Eboes, the best articles of trade are guns, powder, cottons of a showy pattern with red and blue stripes, and knives fitted in an ornamented case and which they wear suspended from the left side. ‘They also manifest a great partiality for rum, small looking-glasses, and cowries:



It is important to note that the white people did not engage in buying slaves directly in the hinterland which rules them out as the Oye-Eboes.

Now that you know that the Kirrees of Lander and Liard are Asaba people, have you asked yourself why these people never called them Eboes but only started calling people Eboes south of the Kirrees even though the Kirrees spoke same language as the Eboes?

ChebeNdigboCalm:
So you give us an article of an unknown source and you think it is a good support? I might as well reference NL comments. Not to mention the fact that the source uses Benin revisionist write-ups as their reference. My opinion is just as good as what I just read. I don’t see why it’s any better.

If anything it proves that Aboh is Igbo as, Igbo people whilst calling the next Igbo clan Igbo, do not call Ibibio, Bini, Igala etc “Igbo” simply because they are outsiders.

you are so anxious to have the Aboh is Igbo, Aboh is not Igbo debate. Chillax sir, we will get there soon

bigfrancis21:
Besides the Lander brothers’ mistake reference, you’ve been unable to quote another verifiable resource that supports your hypothesis. It has been established for a long time in the field of academia that Eboe was the ancient spelling of Igbo. If you disagree with this then it is up to you to come up with verifiable proof disputing it. Citing an article which was a mistake and corrected by subsequent authors is definitely unacceptable.

Eboe coming from Aboh is highly unlikely because the lander brothers visited Aboh around the 1830s but Igbo slaves had been sold to the Americas starting from between the I650 and I720, far before the Lander brothers visited.

I don't believe the word Igbo sprang from Eboe/Aboh, I only drew up implications of your wrong hypothesis. However the article below punctures your first paragraph

ChebeNdigboCalm:
That isn’t what I asked. I asked for the reference from LANDER not Baikie.

Edit: I see actually why what you wrote was relevant but without the proper reference from Lander about Kiree and without the exact quotation it’s useless.

.

bigfrancis21:
I’m aware of the Orogun people who are bilingual.

Second, I think you’re confusing the Ebo alternative pronunciation of Abo with Eboe. Several Igbo dialects switch between A and E (aka/eka, afe/efe, etc.). Abo or Ebo are pronounced differently from Eboe. The E in Ebo is the ‘eh’ sound. The E in Eboe is the ‘I’ sound as in Indigo. Orogun people would call themselves ‘Ebo’ as in ‘Ehbaw’. ‘Eboe’ is totally different. Asides the mistake that Lander made, can you come up with another verifiable evidence that Aboh was alternatively called Eboe (not Ehbaw) in the past?

Eboe can only sound like Ibo/Igbo if it is spelt as Eeboe. You keep making things up to support your false assertions. Again, later documents used Eboe to refer to Aboh and Igbo to refer to your place.

Also, of we must agree with you that Eboe is pronounced as Igbo or Ibo there are the following possibilities:
1. The word Igbo was coined from the word Eboe, the name of a town now known as Aboh
2. The name of the town Aboh is actually Eboe, pronounced as I'gbo
3. Lander did not know the name of the town he spent a couple of nights in as a captive but was able to recall the name of the king's daughter

It's all crazy

ChebeNdigboCalm:
That isn’t what I asked. I asked for the reference from LANDER not Baikie.

Edit: I see actually why what you wrote was relevant but without the proper reference from Lander about Kiree and without the exact quotation it’s useless.

i'm trying to send a screenshot but my network is poor

ChebeNdigboCalm:
I want you to imagine you weren’t yourself and read back that comment. Because I am outstanded by the bias shown here. People who migrated from Igboland and call their language what can only be described as Igbo and is listed as a dialect of Igbo, called it igbo. Yes that is clearly in opposition to our claims! Well done.

Also genuinely I want you to reference when Lander came to Asaba and how you knew it was Asaba. I may have missed it when reading.

Kirree Market of Lander is at Asaba according to Baikie

ChebeNdigboCalm:
Nice try, but why aren’t the slaves sold reported to be Calabar slaves instead of Eboe, if your theory is correct. I am sorry but that theory is simply proof of your bias. You are telling me that I am the one with a ploy yet you are doing ALL the dancing. It is obvious that Lander made a MISTAKE. And you are using a MISTAKE as your evidence.

And of course you have to be writing the whole Eboe/Aboh because you recognise the mind gymnastics you are doing. You just told me Aboh was called Eboe by Iris neighbours. Well done you have just proven that Aboh is Igbo. As I said each Igbo district was called Igbo by other Igbo people. You are simply exploiting the fact that “Eboe” is written differently whilst it sounds the same. They call themselves their native name whilst calling other Igbo people, Igbo. Such is the way of life back then. As in Olaudah’s book, he did the exact same.

Do you mean to tell me that Lander’s book is more important than Baikie’s etc when they:
1. Explored a very similar times.
2. One had better knowledge on Igbo people and even used his predecessor’s knowledge to help.
3. Whilst Lander did not give credence to the theory that Abo is not Igbo, Baikie gave credence to Lander’s findings and also confirmed that Abo is Igbo.
4. Baikie clearly visited territories that were not Abo but were Igbo. Lander seemed to only stick to Abo territories in Igboland.
5. Baikie clearly asked the natives about what they know about the Igbo people as to talk about places he did not visit.

Igbudu, I don’t know if you are from Aboh. If you are I want to understand this. Why do you go to such lengths to create a seperate Identity for Equiano when it is obvious that in Equiano’s books he discussed things prevalent in Igbo culture? You know Abo is a dialect of Igbo and has Igbo culture so for what reason Aboh is less Igbo than other parts of Igboland?

If you aren’t from Abo, I think you should seriously consider your motives in trying to cut off a clearly Igbo people simply because they had their own district just like other parts of Igboland. I can apply similar argument with Arochukwu, Onitsha, Ezza etc

Let us spare the debate on whether Aboh is Igbo for later. Let's focus on whether what early writers called Eboe translates to Igbo. I will gladly oblige you on the former argument afterwards

bigfrancis21:
Take out ‘Aboh’ from the above. The author never mentioned that in his memoir. The rest is correct.

do you know about the Orogun people of Delta state? Do you know that they migrated from Aboh to their present location? Are you aware they speak the Aboh dialect in addition to Urhobo?(they usually speak Aboh when communicating with themselves but speak urhobo when communicating with other Urhobos). Do you know they call the language they speak Èbo and they are called Èbo-Orogun(the part of Orogun that speak Aboh).

The reason for this is as follows:

The Oroguns migrated from Aboh(a historical fact confirmed by both Aboh and Orogun history) and moved to the Urhobo hinterland. Here, they pronounce Aboh as Èbo

What this shows is that the Abohs were called Ëbos by their neighbours from long before Lander. Lander used the name supplied by the Aboh neighbours from before he got to Aboh. It is interesting Lander didn't call the Kirrees(Asabas) Eboe or indeed any other Igbo speaking people along the Niger.

bigfrancis21:
Thank you. The River Olaudah mentioned ferrying across (shortly before getting to the sea) is hardly the river Niger. Before he arrived at that River he first reached Tinmah, a town in Bonny Island before getting to the River days or weeks later. Tinima and Finima (more popular) are sister towns located on Bonny Island. The distance between Bonny and Aboh is a great distance by several months on foot, for Olaudah to make a retrogressive trip back to Aboh from Bonny just to cross the River Niger.

IgbuduMonkey: is there any village or ogbe in Aboh or Ndokwa land named 'Tinmah' (which sounds very Ijawish already) which Olaudah may have first crossed before getting to the supposed river Niger that you so believe?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZGvha_UTC8&ab_channel=TripswithElohor

Like I have said, it is impossible to know how Olaudah got to the coast since he alluded to going through many places he didn't bore the reader with. What we know is that he was from a town, Essaka under Eboe/Aboh, a nominal province of Benen.

ChebeNdigboCalm:
The fact that Lander called them Eboe, the old word for Igbo is enough to show you that Abo people called themselves Eboe which is Igbo. You are simply too sentimental. It is clear what’s most likely. Even the slave records, record Eboe people. Unless you mean to say only Abo people were sold.

Eboe is not the old word for Igbo. Eboe is the name of a town and Kingdom which exist to this day. Called Aboh by its natives and Eboe by neighbours, it was a entrepot for slaves and goods due to its strategic position along the Niger. What this means is that slaves were moved to Aboh and sold there, from where they were resold to the whitemen at the coast. It is the reason why Crow recorded a large Eboe population at Bonny.
The Eboes/Abohs did not sell their natives as slaves. Most of the slaves sold were Igbos, most likely from the hinterland. But these slaves were called Eboe slaves because they were sold by the Eboes/Abohs just as cars imported through Lagos are called Lagos cars.
Aboh was a naval force on the Niger and had hundreds of gun boats patrolling the river. They also raided Igbo villages for slaves and had slaves sold to them by Igbos. It is from this the word Igbo arose which the Abohs refer to as slaves. The Eboes/Abohs were feared so much at that time by their neighbours as was recorded by explorers. Infact, thecLanders was captured at Asaba(called Kirree) and sent to Aboh where the Obi ransomed him. Few years later, the Abohs were said to be at war with the Kirree who killed a son of the Obi. The Abohs raided Asaba, captured 20 men, cut off their head and displayed them in the Aboh market
There are also recorded document of the Abohs raiding Omoku(or a village near there) and taking the head of their ruler
Overwhelming contemporary and literature evidences of these facts abound. You people have no idea what Aboh/Eboe is.

ChebeNdigboCalm:
It’s funny you say that yet you are making claims that are borderline insane.
Here are some parts of Baikie’s book. Someone who made direct reference to Lander. Abo people understood they were a district of the Igbo people even back then.

Aboh people do not consider themselves as Igbos. They never have. But that is not the debate now. The debate is where the early literature referred to as Eboe

bigfrancis21:
IgbuduMonkey

I have decided to compose this post for better visual clarification on your theory that Olaudah may have been from Aboh. Posted below are 4 different images of Aboh from Google Maps showing its closeness to the River Niger and its vantage distance from either Calabar or Bonny port. Now with this visual image in mind, I have posted an excerpt from Olaudah's very own memoir of his capture and journey towards the slave port to be sold:



Comparing Olaudah's memoir of his capture and the location of Aboh right next to the River Niger, this is highly impossible. After his capture, Olaudah and his captors journeyed on land for several weeks, with him exchanging several masters until he arrived at the Sea Coast (Atlantic ocean). Surely, if his Aboh origins were true, then crossing/ferrying across the River Niger should have been mentioned. Olaudah was sold at Bonny Port (he confirmed this by mentioning arriving at a city called Tinmah shortly before he was sold, which is located on Bonny Island and still exists till today).

I came to the banks of a
large river, which was covered with canoes, in which the people
appeared to live with their household utensils and provisions of all
kinds. I was beyond measure astonished at this, as I had never before
seen any water larger than a pond or a rivulet:

Olaudah crossed the Niger, I am surprised you don't know this since you claimed you have read his book a thousand times

That said, it is also important to note that Olaudah was not carried in a straight line to the coast, neither was his original captor's plan to sell him off at the cost.

Lastly, goods and slaves from the ashaka area to the coast would pass through Aboh to the coast beween Bonny and Old Calabar

ChebeNdigboCalm:
Very funny. So you are claiming that by Eboe Lander did not mean Igbo people. You really think that me as an Igbo person read his book independently with no one telling me to. And by finding it by myself, I attempted a ploy just by reading the obvious yet YOU are not attempting a ploy by reading your own beliefs into it. The “historical evidences” are simply little things taken out of context to mask the larger fact that “Eboe” back then referred to the territory from agbor to Nsukka to ezza to arochukwu to Aboh.

The bolded is a statement without a pinch of evidence

ChebeNdigboCalm:
Regardless of if he was from Aboh or not. Aboh just as described is clearly Igbo. And was wrongly perceived as our capital, so the main point is already lost.

Aboh was never perceived as the capital of Igbo. Never. It is the ploy of the Igbos to claim the rich history of Aboh that has led to this false narrative. Lander wrote in 1930 that the city(Eboe) is the capital of a Kingdom of the same name. The Aboh town still exists today and that is what Lander referred to as the Eboe city. The Eboe kingdom is beyond the Aboh town and included places that are now autonomous. The historical evidences are there and you only have to go to that axis to confirm the reach of the old Aboh Kingdom.

Igboid:
Nope. I shared this same document you are posting about here before you.
If you are cleffstone, then I remember exposing you to this same document for the first time in the past

What the document is saying was that Lander and co in their early visit, mistook Aboh to represent the whole Igbo(eboe).
But with the new visit, the one who made the recording, noted that Aboh was only a part of an extensive Igbo country lying on both sides of the Niger.

Aboh and Eboe cannot mean same thing.
Unless you are saying that Eboes of Bonny were from Aboh as well.

Here is more of Captain Crow writing Igbo as Eboe too.
Was he also referring to Aboh?

He was certainly referring to Aboh Kingdom. There was an Aboh kingdom that stretched from Idah to Iru(Ijaw) area which had the Obi of Aboh as it's sovereign ruler and Aboh town as its capital. The Kingdom consisted of mostly Igbo speaking tribes but also included other tribes including Isoko and Itsekiri. [there are Isokos that will tell you that they are abohs]

The Aboh Kingdom was very powerful and influential around the time of Lander and had numerous gunboats on the lower Niger. That the Obi of Abohs influence extended as far as Idah is evidenced by the fact that his son, Ajieh went to Igarra to settle some disputes in 1854. So, Yes, Aboh/Eboe kingdom was on the Western and Eastern banks. Even today, we have Aboh settlements on the Eastern banks in Today's Rivers state.

Many of Captain Crows description of the Eboe people point to the fact that they are Aboh people. For Example, he said the Eboes believe in reincarnation, a strong believe in Aboh culture. He also said the Eboes looked like Benins. As I have told you guys before, Aboh people are from Benin. Also interesting is the fact that the Bonny people like Abohs revere the Iguana. So many things in that memoir that reveals the Eboes are actually Abohs

bigfrancis21:
Do you have comprehension deficiencies?

Abo, the Eboe or Ibo or Lander and of Allen, is a name of a town - Lander (the Lander brothers: https://library.princeton.edu/visual_materials/maps/websites/africa/lander/lander.html) and Allen were people who had previously explored the River Niger and visited Abo. The text that you presented clearly makes a difference between Abo and Eboe. Abo - the Igbo referred to by Lander and Allen, is the name of a town...[b] It (Abo) also forms one section of the Great Igbo Territory.

No where in your text did the author mention nor insinuate that Abo and Eboe were the same. Your text clearly defines Abo as the name of a town and also describes its geographical extent. It also describes Abo as being part of the greater Igbo people. This book was written years after the Lander brothers visited and the author used the correct Igbo spelling versus 'Eboe' or 'Ibu' as used by the Lander brothers and Allen years before after they visited. In other words, 'Abo, the Eboe or Ibo or Lander and of Allen' - this is an in-text citation by the author citing the previous visitation and works of Lander and Allen and adding more information to the previous.

An Island very close to the Atlantic Ocean in Georgia USA is named, 'Ebo's Landing' after a group of 75 plus Igbo slaves who preferred to drown in the ocean in hopes that their spirits will return to Africa instead of serve as slaves. The Ebo used here refers to Aboh town right?

It's very evident why Nigerians fail basic TOEFL exams in large numbers despite speaking what seems like English. Basic passage comprehension is a tedious task.

If this is all that you can furnish as evidence to back up your hypothesis, I'm afraid you might have to come up with something better,

Abó, the Eboe or Ibu of Lander and of Allen, is the name of a town and also of a district extending along both sides of the river, from the Orú country towards Igára. It forms one of the sections of the Great I'gbo (Ibo) territory

Definition of "or": introducing a synonym or explanation of a preceding word or phrase.

From the above, Abó, Eboe and Ibu are synonyms. It is interesting that Baikie went further to say this Abó or Eboe forms a section of the great I'gbo territory hence differentiating Eboe from Igbo.

In contemporary times, Aboh is still called Eboe by some of her neighbours in case you are not aware.

I will not insult you like you have insulted me. I will only educate you and set the record straight.