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iyke100: I like this and often wonder too. |
This is a good thread. So it all boils down to choosing between having rest of mind while waiting for the car and saving some money. hmmn, thats not easy to decide. But I have come across someone I know how promise to collect only half of the money and bring the car to your doorstep and you pay the balance if the car remains in the same condition as you saw it back in cotonu. Still, this did not douse my fear and especially problem travelling interstate. Please, we need more views. I am also planing to buy a car but having problem deciding on where to buy - cotonu or lagos. |
DJTee:pls which bank is acquiring which bank? give us more details. |
slverspoon:I just love Mushin. Proud to be a MUSHINE. But please don't let real estate people send us away with your ads, especially during this period. Anyway, accomodation is going up in mushin these days as a single room is going for as high as 4k per month! |
Ezniteadin:My brother, I have seen the above in practice and was so surprised at the way things are going on in christendom. The way PHD, pull him down syndrome and especially authoritarian leadership is carried out baffles me everyday. For now, I have decided to only concentrate on my relationship with my God and not what any pastor is saying. I have decided to only go by what the bible says and not the perverted interpretation of pastors these days. |
KunleOshob:But some Christians will say that Heb 10:25 says we should not forsake the assembly of believers even though the same verse did not say that it is a sin when you don't go for some reasons such as heavy rain. I simply laughed when the Pastor said we have backslidden. At least we showed up the following Sunday when it did not rain. I just can't help but laugh. May God deliver us from distorted misinterpretation of some pastors who wants us to believe that they are the one that determine our entrance to heaven. On a second note, are some (I want to stress some because not all) pastor's not thinking of drop in earnings on those days when people fail to turn up in church as a result of rain. Thanks everyone for your reply. |
Hi everyone, I just want to ask whether it is a sin if you don't go to church whenever it rains heavily as it has been doing early Sunday morning. Some Pastors are of the view that you are either not committed or backsliding for not coming to church when it rains. When I talk of rain, am not talking of light rain, but referring to heavy rain that disrupts movement. I have been in a situation where a pastor castigated members for not coming to bible study because it rained. He told them they are backsliding and are no longer committed. I simply laughed because if they even want to come, they can't because they can't get bus or okada to carry them except they can pay lots of money. What do you think? |
Spyker:I guess this is the best answer. |
May the soul of titilayo RIP. its so sadenning, a marriage of 2 years |
egift:Hi, what is the cost of the hosting and the name of the company? I have the domain name already. Infact, the site is already built with html. I just want to take it to the next level with boonex. |
I am really interested in this platform but my hosting company - ixwebhosting- does not support it. Is there a way out? |
here is the part 2 - i find it very informative and eye opening. The Sins of the Sheep Sad to say, but the sheep themselves contribute their own sins to the creation of authoritarian ministries. Having talked with several wounded sheep, it has struck me how seldom they have seen their own culpability. They are quick to foist all blame upon their harsh taskmasters. But petty dictators cannot reign without the consent of their craven lackeys and servile subjects. There are at least three sins which they contribute to the sinful pathology of authoritarian churches. 1. Idol-worship: sinful flesh is not content with the reality of the one true God. It wants to fashion an idol in place of the invisible God who is spirit. There is always the temptation to act like the Jews of Saul's time who wanted a human leader they could see, rather than the unseen God (cf. 1 Samuel . But God shares His glory with no man, not even "called men" who are promoted to demi-god status by their adoring flock. Such flocks too often find for themselves a man who likes to lord it over the flock. Thus a sinfully symbiotic relationship is complete with an abusive authority figure coupled to his idol-worshipping minions (Jeremiah 5:30-31).2. Fear of man: too many sheep are more gripped by the desire to please a man or more fearful of displeasing a man than they are of pleasing or displeasing Almighty God (cf. Prov. 29:25; John 5:41-44). They spend their time dancing around their idol, expending their energies catering to his every whim and seeking to avoid his wrath. Men pleasers have little stomach for potential conflict. They would never dare ask their exalted leader a question, no matter how respectfully. They would never ask for the biblical basis for a decision made by the leadership, even when that decision seems to fly in the face of clear Scriptural teaching. Such men-pleasers crave the smile of a man's countenance more than the smile of God and they will not speak the truth in love (Eph. 4:15). 3. Unbelief: too many sheep do not believe that God still guides His people today through the means of prayerful meditation upon the Word of God and the illuminating ministry of the Holy Spirit. It is easier for the flesh to suspend the use of spiritual faculties and scriptural means of guidance for the short-cut of asking the leader to determine God's will and make the decisions all the time. It is not surprising that sheep who put men on pedestals, who cravenly serve men and who do not believe that God still guides will fall prey to abusive shepherds. It is only by the grace of God that it doesn't happen more than it does. (Even good men know the temptation to become surrogate "gods" for their people and must stoutly resist the temptation to always answer questions of guidance and decision making.) Perhaps, some of the time, authoritarian shepherds are God's chastening rods on the backs of idol-worshipping, men-pleasing, unbelieving sheep who will not have God to be their God but who substitute a mere creature in His place (cf. Is. 2:22; Ps. 33:13-19). The Cure for Authoritarian Shepherds and Idol-Worshipping Sheep The call of the Word of God to sinners is always "repent and believe." So it is to the office holder who has exercised his office in sinful ways. So it is to the member of a local church who has sinfully preferred looking to puny men rather than Almighty God. Shepherds convicted of the sins of authoritarianism should humbly come to the Word of God and prayerfully meditate upon those great passages which delineate the work of the man of God and warn against abuse (Gen. 18, Ex. 32-33; Lev. 10, Ez. 34; Matt. 23; the Pastoral Epistles, 1 Pet. 5, et al). Repentance involves confession. Public sins must be publicly confessed; private sins must be privately confessed. Pastors guilty of authoritarianism would do well to preach to themselves and their flocks an extended series on 1 Corinthians 13, Philippians 2, the Sermon on the Mount, or John 10. They should not be afraid to humble themselves to the dust before God and their people, for our God does not despise a broken and contrite heart (Ps. 51:17). He comes close to the lowly and meek and raises them up. The true people of God will not despise "a good man who is good enough to recognize that he is not good enough." Pastors must seek to cultivate the habit of intercessory prayer on behalf of their people. They must pray for great grace to resist the persistent temptation to play God for people. They must learn to redirect potential idol-worshipers to the living God who delights in His Bride but who will not share her with another. They must also pray for the sheep that they would not become embittered but would be forgiving of the pastor's sins. Shepherds who have been guilty of not loving their flocks sacrificially must pray for God the Holy Spirit to produce the loving fruit of the Spirit in their hearts, and with a compassion bred of selflessness, they must cultivate works of loving concern even when the initial "feeling" of love is not present. God will not long withhold His Spirit from that man who pleads for grace to love the flock as Christ does and who begins regularly giving himself to them in sacrificial acts of service. Men who humble themselves before the Lord will be shown what they need to see and shown afresh how the blood of Christ cleanses even the stains of pastoral sins. Sheep convicted of worshipping idols, pleasing men and disbelieving God must also face their sins and repent. Such repentance would include study and meditation upon God's Word on idolatry, men-pleasing, and the sin of unbelief. Sheep must learn to look to the Great Shepherd of the sheep. Weak faith grows best upon a diet of regular study and a believing hearing of the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Sheep must also learn from God's Word that enduring real or imagined conflict is not the worse thing in the world and that the worst that a man can do to you is nothing compared with what Almighty God can do. Sheep must be encouraged to learn in more depth that they are believer-priests with equal access to God and the same merit of Christ as their title deed for prayer. Sheep who walk with God, who know His Word and believe it and obey it are not likely to fall prey to tin gods, clay idols and fleshly shepherds. May God give His people grace to see their sins and repent of them. We dare not glory in our current condition and slothfully ignore the deplorable state of much of Christ's Church. We must first judge ourselves that we may not be judged. And we must plead the purposes and promises of our Father in begging Him for the renewal of the Holy Spirit. |
Hi everyone, am really enjoying the conversations. I came across this article and i hope it will be a blessing to you all. Also, it answers our questions. Sorry it is long, but it is worth reading. Shalom! Authoritarianism In The Church part 1 by Steve Martin The Problem A tragic and dangerous trend can be observed in some contemporary evangelical churches. While standing against the lawlessness and anti-authority mood of this generation, some conservative, Bible-believing churches have drifted into deadly authoritarian tendencies. This sad phenomenon is increasingly becoming publicized and well-documented (see suggested reading list at the end of this article). Why is this happening? What kind of attitudes engender authoritarianism in a church? Whose fault is it? What can be done about it? Before proceeding any farther, some definition is in order. For the purposes of this article, "authoritarianism" is defined as an abuse of the authority given by Christ through the agency of the Holy Spirit and revealed in God's Word which the office holders of the local churches are to exercise. It has been my observation that this abuse of authority usually takes on one or both of the following forms. First, the sin of authoritarianism exists when pastors and other office holders speak with binding authority where God Himself has not spoken in His written Word. If God has not pronounced on the subject, it is a usurpation of the Creator. A pastor may rightly proclaim "Thus saith the Lord" when preaching against idolatry, adultery, greed, marrying an unbeliever or any other violation of the express commands of God. That is his duty and God help the man who "cuts and trims" texts to speak smooth words to his flock. But the pastor has no warrant from Christ to speak with the binding authority of God's imprimatur to issues upon which the written word of God is silent. Second, the sin of authoritarianism exists when pastors and other office holders usurp the Lordship of Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the lives of God's people by deciding the will of God for them where Scripture is silent. Church officers may not declare the will of God for God's people on such choices as one's career, choice of Christian mate, choice of lawful employment, place of living, schooling they attend, etc., without becoming surrogate deities. Flocks of sheep with paralyzed decision-making faculties reveal exposure to shepherds who played God with them. Thus the sinful tendency revealed in John Milton's wry observation ("New presbyter is but old priest writ large" returns to haunt churches. And even more sadly, some idol-worshipping sheep love it to be so.Causes of the Problem Surely the cause of authoritarianism and idol-worship is sin. But what sins in particular need to be recognized, repented of and mortified by the Holy Spirit's help? Five sins of the shepherds and three sins of the sheep come to mind. Taken together they produce churches with a powerfully sinful pathology which dishonors Christ, smothers the sheep, inflates the shepherds and hinders the work of God. Sins of the Shepherds Today's authoritarian shepherds seem to fall prey to one or more of the following sins as they exercise their ministry. 1. Idolatry: the sinful desires of some men to always be in control, especially the control of the lives of God's sheep. Such sin is but a thinly veiled attempt to play God. And make no mistake, such men become as God to their flock. It is hardly surprising that pastors with such a sinful proclivity will eventually attain near papal infallibility in their churches. Paul's command to Titus in 2:15 ("rebuke with all authority, do not let anyone despise you" is their key verse in practice if not by precept. Usually the idolatrous sin of control is accompanied by a wrathful, berating, anxiety-producing spirit as the authoritarian leader will tolerate no loose atoms in their personal universe of control (cf. Ezek. 34:4c; Matt. 20:25; 1 Pet. 5:3). Such self-deified pastors produce congregations which are more afraid of displeasing the pastors than they are of displeasing their Lord and Savior. Men who must be "God" to their people ironically lose the authority of God's Holy Spirit by their sin, and God-given authority is replaced by fleshly control maintained by manipulation, intimidation, verbal coercion and ecclesiastical pulling of rank (e.g. "Now, I'm your elder and you had better be, or else, " . The Apostle John's description of Diotrephes seems to fall under such a category of sin (3 John 9-10).2. Prayerlessness: authoritarian pastors do not rely upon prayer for their people as a primary instrument ordained by God for the edification of His people. As a result, they verbally coerce and bully their people to conform. They seek to rely only on the "arm of flesh" of their own strong-arm tactics. Such fleshly shepherds expend far more labor scolding, threatening, manipulating, confronting and "exercising discipline" to get their people to conform to their wishes than they do laboring before the throne of grace for the Spirit's supernatural work of conforming saints to Christ's image (2 Cor. 3:18). The Word of God makes plain that every shepherd's arsenal does include the rod and the staff. But it also emphasizes the importance of intercessory prayer for the growth of the people of God (cf. the recorded prayers of our Lord's and the Apostle Paul on behalf of their people). Sadly, many pastors beat their sheep because the weapons of the flesh are more comfortable in their own hands than the weapons of the Spirit. The Apostle James warns about men whose lives are strewn with the wreckage of their carnal leadership and links it to their prayerlessness (James 3:13-4:3). 3. Unbelief: many office holders do not believe the declarative statements and promises of God in the Scripture. They do not believe that Christ is Lord of His true church and that the gates of hell will not prevail against it. They do not believe that God the Holy Spirit is also Lord of the church, conforming God's people into His image. They do not believe God the Father will exercise His Fatherly love and discipline over the lives of His adopted children. In their unbelief, following hard on the heals of their own prayerlessness, authoritarian shepherds develop the mind-set, "If I don't make them do this, they won't!" or "If I don't make them do this, who will?" They really do not believe that the Holy Spirit will superintend His people and convict them of sin when away from the shepherd. Even as Christian parents must entrust their Christian teens unto the Lord as they drive the car down the driveway or leave for the university, so pastors must learn to trust God the Holy Spirit to work in the lives of His people when they are out from under the watchful gaze of their local under-shepherd. Sadly, such pastors create a "police state mentality" in their congregations where everyone's life is carefully monitored and scrutinized for any deviation, and "sins" are to be reported to the church leadership immediately. 4. Lack of love for the sheep: shepherds in ancient Palestine walked ahead of their sheep, leading them on and calling them by name to follow them to green pastures and cool waters. The sheep followed because they had come to know the shepherd's faithful care and loving concern for their own well-being. It was the shepherd who slept in the doorway of the sheepfold to guard the flock at night. It was the shepherd who fought the bear, the lion and other predators. It was the shepherd who protected the flock from the thief. It was the shepherd who left the 99 to go looking for the lost sheep. It was the shepherd who gently led the nursing ewes and their young. Such imagery surely depicts a sacrificial love for the sheep on the part of the shepherd. But times have changed for many shepherds in the West. "Sheep ranchers" now employ barking dogs and shepherds in helicopters to drive the frightened, harassed and bewildered sheep ahead of them. The sheep in such contemporary operations are motivated out of fear of the snarling bite of the shepherds' seemly omnipresent dogs and the incessant bellowing of the shepherd himself over the loud-speaker in his helicopter overhead. Sadly, in too many congregations today, sheep are driven by a man more like a callous meat packer than a loving shepherd. Many modern shepherds don't even like sheep; it's just their business. In fact, men are encouraged not to get too close to the sheep or emotionally involved in their lives and problems. So many pastors don't actually like (let alone love) their people. They promote witnessing and world evangelization, they just don't like to be around individual sinners. One need only read of our Lord's loving compassion for the sheep-like sinners of His earthly ministry (Matt. 9:36, 14:14; Mark 1:40-41, 10:21) and recognize how far removed that is from many pastoral examples today. Sacrificial shepherd-love which lays down its life for the sheep has been replaced by loveless sheep management by uncaring sheep ranchers. 5. Pride: at root, all the above mentioned sins of office bearers stem from an inflated sense of their own importance. John Calvin once shrewdly observed that from the king on his throne to the scullery maid in the kitchen, each of us harbors a kingdom in our hearts. Such is the sinful pride of the human heart. Creatures saved by the sovereign grace of their Creator and put into service of their fellow creatures may all too quickly forget that they are but clay pots made out of "proud dust" (to use Thomas Watson's apt expression). We must be reminded that we hold our office by our Master's pleasure, to do His bidding, and to further His Kingdom. Humble shepherds never forget from whence they have come nor to whom they must give an account. Humble shepherds look to God's sheep with compassion; prideful shepherds look down upon the sheep with scornful contempt for their weaknesses and failings. Humble shepherds remember that even the Great Shepherd of the sheep patiently endured the misunderstanding, scolding and fleshly rebukes of His sheep (cf. Matt. 16:22; Mark 4:38; 1 Peter 2:21-23). Prideful shepherds however react to every real and perceived slight to their "august personage." How unlike their Master! Shepherds must learn that they cannot be conformed to the image of Christ as longsuffering and forgiving unless they are "long bothered" and wronged. Pride, however, responds to the irritations of sinners with anger. An angry leader is a prideful leader. |
Thanks everyone for your input. I have been really uplifted by the posts of many people on this thread. All I set out to do this with topic is draw attention of both men of God and us, their members to this disturbing trend in Christendom. One, men of God need to go back to the basics - the bible and the one that called them. They need to realize that they are to, like someone rightly pointed out, to shepherd, to take care of the sheep. Unfortunately, many pastors or men of God these days are not shepherd that they are supposed to be. How many shepherds even care to run after a member that left their church with a view to helping the person see reasoning? These pastors are content with the 99 sheep they have with them, which is not what Christ taught. Our pastors need to know the difference between shepherding the sheep and desiring to know everything that is happening to a sheep. Pastors should let their members worship and glorify God and not the other way round. Also, they should let the members know how to pray on their own, do things on their own, face, confront and overcome life's challenges without resorting to emergency saviour - pastors, men of God. Two, we the members are as guilty as the pastors. I guess maybe its our African tradition of idol worship that made us to always look for someone to do things for us. We want the pastor to know everything about us, our friends, our business deals, our progress, etc. We need to define when it is time to visit the pastor for spiritual guidance and going to him whenever anything happens to us or in our family. Like someone rightly said on this thread, this attitude of ours has made them to fall and unable to to resist it. So, anybody that refuses to disclose private or intimate details to pastors are perceived as not submitting or obedient. We, members should stop all these special treatment we give these church leaders as one campus leader pointed out on this thread. We are giving them a big temptation that their flesh cannot resist. Can you imagine sisters bringing food in the cooler just because this is our campus father. I am really sure they will not do the same for the brother they plan to marry. May God help u all. I am not saying we should not treat them well, far from it. All i am saying is that we should not take it too far. e.g, a wife obeying her pastor more than her husband in a domestic case that has nothing to do with the Bible. or a case where a woman receives the praise of Pastor for staying longer and doing the work of God while her husband and children suffers at home. We have a problem when we try to please a man of God and don't bother about God's approval or commendation. In conclusion, let everyone of us draw nearer to God and pray for the grace to make heaven as that is the ultimate. Let the word of God be your guide and final statement, the word of your pastor. P.S. The other post was done in error. |
Thanks everyone for your input. I have been really uplifted by the posts of many people on this thread. All I set out to do this with topic is draw attention of both men of God and us, their members to this disturbing trend in Christendom. One, men of God need to go back to the basics - the bible and the one that called them. They need to realize that they are to, like someone rightly pointed out, to shepherd, to take care of the sheep. Unfortunately, many pastors or men of God these days are not shepherd that they are supposed to be. How many shepherds even care to run after a member that left their church with a view to helping the person see reasoning? These pastors are content with the 99 sheep they have with them, which is not what Christ taught. Our pastors need to know the difference between shepherding the sheep and desiring to know everything that is happening to a sheep. Pastors should let their members worship and glorify God and not the other way round. Also, they should let the members know how to pray on their own, do things on their own, face, confront and overcome life's challenges without resorting to emergency saviour - pastors, men of God. Two, we the members are as guilty as the pastors. I guess maybe its our African tradition of idol worship that made us to always look for someone to do things for us. We want the pastor to know everything about us, our friends, our business deals, our progress, etc. We need to define when it is time to visit the pastor for spiritual guidance and going to him whenever anything happens to us or in our family. Like someone rightly said on this thread, this attitude of ours has made them to fall and unable to to resist it. So, anybody that refuses to disclose private or intimate details to pastors are perceived as not submitting or obedient. We, members should stop all these special treatment we give these church leaders as one campus leader pointed out on this thread. We are giving them a big temptation that their flesh cannot resist. Can you imagine sisters bringing food in the cooler just because this is our campus father. I am really sure they will not do the same for the brother they plan to marry. May God help u all. I am not saying we should not treat them well, far from it. All i am saying is that we should not take it too far. e.g, a wife obeying her pastor more than her husband in a domestic case that has nothing to do with the Bible. or a case where a woman receives the praise of Pastor for staying longer and doing the work of God while her husband and children suffers at home. We have a problem when we try to please a man of God and don't bother about God's approval or commendation. In conclusion, let everyone of us draw nearer to God and pray for the grace to make heaven as that is the ultimate. Let the word of God be your guide and final statement, the word of your pastor. |
petres_007:Thanks everyone for your input. I am really blessed by all your answers, especially the verses above,, "not lording it over," hmmn, that speaks volume and how I wish that many pastors will read that again and again and know that their position is not meant to victimize, lord it over or dominate the sheep under them. the fact that you are the pastor does not make you a spiritual superman above all the others. once again, thanks everyone for your replies. God bless you all. My prayer i that God will give us the grace to make heaven in Jesus name. |
wetu:I agree with you totally on the above. from the above, it can be asserted that some men of God would even want to do your thinking for you. That is why they prefer being called daddy or father in the Lord. But honestly, don't you all think that we the members are as guilty as these men of God? It seems we too like idolize them on he pretext that since we don't see God, they are the replicas of God but forgetting what wetu said above that they are not above mistakes. Thanks everyone, will like more response please. P.S. I think these men of God need prayers ooo. Also, I just pray that God will give us the grace to make heaven as some men of God can't be looked upon as examples. |
have you been involved in or seen church politics in action? Please help us out. |
thanks sean, but what is the difference between respecting a man of God and worshiping a man of God. I just want to know when I cross the line from respecting him or her to worshiping him or her. Are there examples? Please specify. Thanks everyone for your input. |
Hi Kunle, can we please have your own view while we wait for others. The thing is really disturbing these days! Some men of God even want you to respect and fear them than your parents! Is this Christianity? Please people lets discuss these matter in a civil way in a bid to help our erring men of God get back to leadership by serving. |
Hi, What is the difference between respecting and worshiping a man of God? When do we draw the line? This question emanates from the way every man of God in Nigeria these days want to be adored or treated. When do we Christians know that we are worshiping them instead of just respecting them? Please share your views with us. |
hi everyone, can you please share with us what you know or think/feel about church politics or politics in the church. If you have stories, can you please share it with us? Is church politics the handwork of the devil or is it just that we Christians are lying about our beliefs with the way we go about politics in the church. Why do some Christians delight in phd (pull him down syndrome)? The thing makes me sick within anytime I reflect on this subject. P.S. I am not referring to secular politics in the church, rather I am talking about the way and manner church leaders handle their positions. |
Jaylone:seconded |
any working link please, atdhe is showing another match. |
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Isn't it a wonderful day?! I hope this will be the beginning of better things to come. Up Arsenal! |
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Please anyone with a working link for watching online? I just hope that arsenal will not let us down today. Like someone said above, two defeats are enough, the third must not happen. |
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Hi Omnipotens, can you please send your proposal to rasaqt@yahoo.com? Thanks for all your ideas but I will like to see how it translate to money making on the website. looking forward to your email. |

I like this and often wonder too.
. But God shares His glory with no man, not even "called men" who are promoted to demi-god status by their adoring flock. Such flocks too often find for themselves a man who likes to lord it over the flock. Thus a sinfully symbiotic relationship is complete with an abusive authority figure coupled to his idol-worshipping minions (Jeremiah 5:30-31).
returns to haunt churches. And even more sadly, some idol-worshipping sheep love it to be so.