₦airaland Forum

crackhouse:
@poster, are u a government agent? I mean are u connected to government? b/cos they are the people that will quickly dismiss such theories without proper inquires. However, i agree with u that the percentage is not up to 80% but i can tell u that the people that live below $2 per day are not less than 45%. Come to think of the unemployed nigerians, where do u think they will get money to feed up to twice a day?. I guess u have not experienced poverty before and that's the reason why u are saying this. Maybe u are rich or u are surrounding by rich people. U said u have been to the poorest of places and the remotest location in Nigeria, are u a tourist? Or is it to obtain facts for the write up?. U dey try sha.

Lol. Am not a tourist but INEC took me places. Please read the first post on this page and my other posts.

If ~41% of Nigerians are children below 14years, the questions is if they were included in the 80% calculation and whether it is even fair to include them. Cause they definitely will spend less than $2/day but whether they even live on less than $2/day (feeding + transport) is another issue.

JAkpayen:
Iolo/deco2come, I guess you guys are from a rich and privilege class that's why you won't accept the estimate that 80% of Nigerians live below poverty line.

The question is poverty line according to who's standard. A poor man in the US is rich here.

So what's our definition of poor in Nigeria. If you can feed, rent haus, and transport yourself with $3/day, are you poor? Can a poor person meet his daily needs?

I have seen the poorest of poor in this country. People who eat millet (like amala) and bean soup (their delicacy), local rice and raw vegetables (I had constipation for 3days after eating it), Morning, Afternoon, Night. So its not like I don't know what I'm talking about. + my family isn't even rich. We are just there.

Claus:
Without knowing the basis for how some stats are derived, one always has to take them with a pinch of salt.

However, the message behind the statistics is very true, i.e. that many Nigerians are living in poverty. A lot of people look at those in the west and say they appear rich only because of credit facilities. That is not true. The western public indulge themselves in the available credit facilities out of greed and not necessarily poverty.

Back to the Nigeria statistic, it may not be up to 80% living on less than $2. We can't know unless we do a detailed study ourselves. However, the true figure will still shock. I would guesstimate it at anywhere between 50%-80%. If you increase the value to $5 a day, then I would say almost definitely 80% of Nigerians live on less than that a day.

In all the arguments about statistics, we should not lose sight of the message, which is that a majority of Nigerians live in poverty.

True. The message is what's important. A lot of Nigerians are suffering. But,

If you say we live on less than $2/day, does that mean the average person spends less than $2/day? And if yes, I might spend less than $2/day for a whole month, but be living on more than $2/day.

And consider that 40.9% of our population are kids from 0 - 15 years. Do these people need to live on more than $2/day? If there weren't included, Does this mean that its the rest people aged 15 - 65+ who are the 100% and that 80% of them live on less than $2/day?

This 80% figure looks like tumbo-tumbo calculation to me (lol).

deco2come:
[b]If you believe this statistics, then you can believe anything

Simple maths

If Nigeria is 150million then 80% of the population = 120million
If Nigeria is 170million then 80% of the population = 136million

1.) Now tell me, what is the population of universities students in the country, what is the population of high school students, primary school student. If we all live below $2 a day, where did we manage to pay the tuition fee.

2.) How many Nigeria parents do we have  and the number of the children per family. You can start from your own family, friends and relations and tell me how many you know that live below $2 a day

3.) If these 80% live below $2 a day, do you think some churches will still be a big business. How do the members manager to make most donations. And how did banks still remain in business

4.) If I can eat three square meals per day from my farm products, live in my own hurt/house or even cave but I am not owning any one, do you classify me as a poor man.

5.) There are two men. One doesn't has lives in a hut, eat from his farm input, doesn't owe anyone and the other live in a mansion, drives powerful car, owes the bank thousands/millions. Which of the two men do you regard as a poor person.

6.) Check the population of each ethnic groups in Nigeria esp Hausa, Igbo, Yoruba and you will see that each ethnic group has a population of more than 20million people. Now tell me how beggars do you have in each ethnic group.

7.) I believe some people judge others from the way they dress and the place they live.

In conclusion, this statistics is incorrect[/b]

My brother, Thank You.

The fact that I SPEND less than $2/day doesn't mean I LIVE on less than $2/day.

There's a difference.

passyjango:
Omo, millet is not a square meal. Why don't you join them in their millet fest  ? Also the stat is on the average. During millet season they may eat more than $2 a day, but off season, they may live on a lot less than that. So it may still round-off to less than $2/day. But is man born just to eat alone?

The fact is that a lot of Nigerians are leaving miserable lives whether they are living above or below $2/day is inconsequential to them.

LOL. True. Nigerians are living miserable lives. Including the rich ones.

But the whole 80% of you are poor is tampering with our psyche as a people. The average Nigerian is a hustler, cash spender, not credit spender like these whites.

Let them erase credit cards and see how poor they too will become na.

Approximately 50% of Nigerians are urban dwellers. At least 24 cities have populations of more than 100,000.

+

0-14 years: 40.9% (male 32,476,681/female 31,064,539)
15-64 years: 55.9% (male 44,296,228/female 42,534,542)
65 years and over: 3.1% (male 2,341,228/female
2,502,355) (2011 est.)

The 40.9% of children in my books are the ones who can reasonably live on less than $2/day - and not all of them do because school fees (remember it's live on, which means cumulative expenditure and not just feeding) is part of the $2/day figure. Include the retired ones (65years and over) less say they can manage to survive with less than $2/day.

It doesn't still add up to 80%.

We have 90M mobile phone lines, and they are mostly owned by those 15years and above (about 60% of the entire pop).

Culled from - en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Nigeria

[quote author=Mr. Globe link=topic=794653.msg9464266#msg9464266 date=1320226591]@Op, I already gave you the indices. The index is based on estimates and its correct. I believe it. Don't mistake patriotism for f'oolishness. Mediocrity seem to be the new standard in Nigeria. I asked you, how many people do you think on more than 10K a month in Nigeria? 25% of the 170 million population at best[/quote]Good thing is am not head strong about my position. I just need to see concrete evidence that its truly 80% (120M) that live on less than $2/day. If I can come across a superior argument based on facts, figures, and reliable data, I'll be willing to give up my position.

Ok. Did you read thru my last 2-3 posts? Where I estimated the number of people in civil service (Fed and state), privately employed etc.?

What's your opinion?

passyjango:
Just because you are privileged enough to earn N10,000 a month, does not mean others are that lucky. There are people in remote towns and villages who depend on fruits for their survival. During yam season they will eat yam morning, afternoon, evening. During Mango season, mango will be in the menu morning, afternoon, evening. The same happens during seasons for maize, pineapple, oranges, water melon, etc.

It is also not just food and housing that a man needs what about health care and sanitation. How many can afford hospital emergencies. Some Nigerians prefer to go to church when they are sick because they can not afford hospital bill. They only remember hospital only when it is very very very very serious.

It is this class of people that we are talking about. Most of us using NL are not in this class and most of our relations may not also be affected, so it is not surprising that some of us are still in denial. However, it is wicked of us to deny the reality, just because we are comfortable. How then are we better than our leaders?

Please, without assuming, what's the remotest, poorest place you've been to?

I use myself as an example. I served in Jigawa (a very poor state), did INEC registration in a community that was 3hours from the LG secretariat. 3hrs on desert land o? No cars can make it thru, but 4x4 pickups, the ancient Toyota hilux and co lik u see on Discovery.


In the village where I worked, millet is the staple food. They eat it Morning, Afternoon, Night (3 square meals o). They also have a saying that if you stopped eating Millet, then you are a lazy farmer (farming community). These guys have No Cell Phone, No cars, about 10 Bikes in a community of 1000+, few of the kids go to school - they are the poorest of the poorest.

But  - Do you mean to tell me that if these guys have to buy the Millet they eat Day and Night, they won't spend more than 300 daily? Then add costs of Firewood, Cooking materials.

And then finally compare: the 80% of Nigerians is - LIVE on less than $2/day and not SPEND less than $2/day. If the statement said spend, I won't be disturbing myself.

I think to end this debate, this is what we should do.

Calculate the following:

Number of people in Federal Civil Service -
Number of people in States & Local Govt. Civil Service -
Number of people in Military, Police, Civil Defense, EFCC (every other Fed worker that isn't in Ministry) - ~ 1 million people

Number of people working in the private sector (around the country) - ~ 20M (half of lagos population o)

Already I'm sure of 21M people who don't collect anything less than 18000 monthly. Does this mean the Fed Civil and State Civil Service commissions in all the 36 states employ less than 9M people?

20% of 150M = 30M people, which is all I need to disprove that statistic that isn't a fact but a figure being thrown around.


When I say 10000. Please don't consider it as money received month end. Just ask yourself, Do these people spend less than 10000 naira (cumulatively) a month? A person may make 500, 100, 300, 1000, 700 (for example, agberos, market people, bus drivers etc) from Monday to Friday. That person doesn't earn monthly salary but still makes (spends) more than 10k monthly when you add everythin up.

Just discovered that we have 90M mobile phones in Nigeria.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_mobile_phones_in_use

It becomes clear how Nigerians get fed with lies and we just believe and keep quiet. Otherwise how does a person who lives on less than $2/day take care of a phone.

The very fact that in Nigeria we live on cash and not credit means a lot. The whites spend what they don't have and boast about it - that they are richer than us.

But before I digress the fact that we don't spend credit logically means there's less money to spend, we'll live on less funds than our white folks. But does that make 80% of us poor? NO.

Can anyone even tell me how these guys arrived @ the 80% figure?

In the developed world, they have job statistics and the rate of unemployment is usually derived from the number of those who make jobless claims versus the number of jobs created in the economy monthly or yearly.

In Nigeria, we don't know how many jobs the Federal Government has created (thru civil service - MDAs), we don't know how many jobs the private sector has created, we don't know the amount of vacant positions.

So how then do these guys come up with the 80%?

Or is it just random sampling? Go to Ajegunle, these guys aren't looking fresh so its 95% poverty for them. Go to Kano, the Almajiris are too much let's give them 99% unemployment?

My problem is when Nigerians sit back to swallow such figures. Am amazed the Federal Govt doesn't do its own calculations cause this is bad brain washing from the whites.

Again, someone please tell me how they got the 80% figure.

[quote author=Mr. Globe link=topic=794653.msg9463393#msg9463393 date=1320214966]^ lol.
@Ross you clearly missed the point. Ok, the poster put it at 10000 a month. Lets ask ourselves, how many Nigerians can afford to spend #10,000 a month. Minimum wage #18000 for a man with wife, children and family. Ve seen conductors/'touts' load buses in Nigeria for #20 which pains my heart. Now how many #20's make #300 and times it by the number of people competing to load these buses. The nursing mother who sells pure water, the ones who dont even have any hope of eating. Over 70% unemployed population (u may still doubt this), how do they live? If we had the credit system in Nigeria, do you think there will be this huge inequality of wealth? I think the 80% estimation is even generous. Ve driven around Nigeria and am sensitive when I see poverty. The people are wretchedly poor. Very poor standard of living and they have adapted to this cuz of illiteracy.[/quote]Bus conductors and agberos are far from the poorest people in Nigeria, and trust me most of them that work hard especially the ones here in Lagos earn more than N20000 monthly. The question is what do they do with their income? They drink, womanize, and faagi. Have you seen the wives of these so-called conductors and bus drivers? You might be surprised to see some of them wearing gold chains.

My point is agberos are def not the poorest people in this country. They feed fat. Their only problem is illiteracy, poverty mentality (which prevents them from tushing up).

And how are 70% of Nigerians unemployed? Am amazed when people say this. Does this mean 70% Nigerians sit down @ home and wait for social checks (we don't have) or that 70% Nigerians depend on others for feeding.

What we have is an underemployment problem amongst the general population. Unemployment is mostly amongst our graduates who can't find jobs, but have you any graduate who left school @ 23 years and is presently 32+years and without a job?

So how many youths are between 23 years and 32 years in Nigeria? Add this figure to the number of almajiris and then ever other person without a job (minus people in the village) and you won't get more than 40million Nigerias.

My calculations are pretty rough and generalized, but they make sense to me.

My opinion is that foreign countries and organizations like to malign Africans with facts that downgrade us both intellectually and emotionally.

$2 / day = 300naira per day  = which is ~ 10000 monthly.

Now let's consider cost of living in Nigeria:

Average Meal - N150 (N300 per day for two square meals)

I haven't even added cost of transportation, accommodation, etc and the 10000naira is already gone.

Does this mean 80% of Nigerians eat just once a day?
Does this mean 80% of Nigerians don't live in houses?
Does this mean only 20% of Nigerians own Mobile Phones? If no, how do the remaining recharge?
Does this mean only 20% of Nigerians have places to live in? If no, where do the rest stay in?
Does that 80% figure include children and young adults? If yes, then these people don't have any income and shouldn't be factored in.

Lagos and Kano hold approximately 20% of Nigeria's population, with 30+M residents out of Nigeria's 150M. If I choose to include states like Ogun, FCT, Oyo, Imo, Anambra, where the average person can afford @ least two square meals, how true then is the 80% of Nigerians are poor theory.

Or are the foreign bodies counting Almajiris (the only people who are really poor in my books) to be 80% of our population?

Lastly, if I can get 2 square meals, housing, etc all for 300 naira per day. Does this make me poor?

What are your thoughts?   

Disclaimer: I have been to the poorest of places in Nigeria, the remotest locations, as well as the richest locations in Nigeria too. So I know how the really poor people live. And trust me, even they eat two square meals.

Nigeria needs an action President, not one that talks and makes endless promises. We know what we want as a people, so there's no need to tell us. The President and the Ministers need to shut up till they have a project that's ready for launch, then we can all celebrate.

Till then, I'm fast losing faith in Johan's ability to set things right - beyond the usual planning, planning, and intending to do, which seems to be all he does these days.

State creation is a bad idea and am happy to debate anybody who thinks otherwise.

In my books, it's all a ploy to have more governors, politicians, civil servants and simply greedy folks who will only balance and wait for Federal Govt to give them their monthly allocations from d Fed Account. Ask these new states to come up with comprehensive IGR plans, development plans, and they would run away.

But come to think of it, what if we only had 6 states in Nigeria. Wouldn't that solve our problem? Less governors to steal the money, more money to go round for development and less tribal friction (my state is better than yours mentality).

These lawmakers are only playing to the gallery by entertaining such thoughts. And am sure right thinking Nigerians don't want this - unless those who stand to benefit.

State creation is the dullest thing we can do as a country. We have 36 states already, the bulk of which have internal revenue less than 200 million monthly. So when we begin to have 50+ states, is it the same Niger Delta states that will feed everybody?

More so creating any new states based on tribal factors is just dumb. We have 250+ tribes in Nigeria, I'm sure even with these 40+ new states been agitated for, the number of states still won't be enough for some people.

A time may even come where large families (like the Oputa family for example) will want a state to themselves so they can express their own form of cultural diversity blah blah blah.

I know someone who has been called up to write a test for the company this Saturday.

I have a feeling the thing is a scam cause which normal company that's not a recruitment consultant collects money from applicants.

Being a union we don't even know if the jobs are for the company itself or one of the companies registered in their trade union ish. The whole thing on their website looks confusing to me, so my hands are crossed.

@OP,

Can you open up the email you received confirming the non-existence of the degrees, take a screenshot and upload it here for all to see?

That would help cut a long story short.

I'm left handed and can't imagine the reason for such an outdated culture?

Does this mean left handed peeps are inferior or we weren't created by the same God, Nigerians have a lot of issues culturally.

I was eating a local dish @ the nysc camp, a female soldier saw me eating with my left hand and made a derogatory sign to her colleague (nudging him to look @ me as well). I did as if I didn't see her, but my friend who saw it took it up. A quarrel started and last last the male soldier apologized for the woman.

Such things no longer bother me, but I do use my left hand to do just about everything except maybe operate a touch screen phone. My right hand does the dirty jobs - like toilet

manmustwac:
@post
If corruption is cultural and not political dose that mean that our ancestors were corrupt before the British brought civilization when they started to colonize us in the 1800s?

Our ancestors were definitely corrupt and greedy. Without both there wuda bin no slavery in the first place. Cause everybody would have stOod their ground and said No.

The white's were not taking our people by force, slaves were sold for foreign goods.

Akiika:
Ok guys, every human has the tendency to be corrupt if nobody is watching or there are no consequences for it. The disrespect for the rule of law is the issue. If the law is enforced to stupor, then people will refrain from sharp practices. That's why we need to get it from the top, if the legislative arm can promulgate good anti-corruption laws, the executive are commited to enforcing it and the judiciary is unbiased, then problem is solved. Let there be capital punishment for corrupt public officials and the society will adjust itself. There are more terrible humans here in the western world, but they are careful of what they do because they understand the law is not a respecter of anybody. When public officers are made to resign for alleged infidelity in the western world, our legislooters are been supplied with glorified LovePeddlers in Abuja constantly.

I like what you just said. But here's my point of view.

You're talking of a system that can bring about change by itself. Supposedly from the top hierarchy so that others below will follow. But here's the problem - Nigeria is a democracy. And believe it or not, the President doesn't hold absolute power.

If you have corrupt people in power (NASS) how do you get them behind your reform agenda (to their detriment since no more money to chop).

Humans are actually naturally corrupt. But in the developed world you can never steal illegally and get away with it. There do have legitimate ways to make money (Lobby - oyinbo legistators can take millions from corporations legally.)

How do you make this change? Cause right now, Nigerians are waiting for a stroke of luck/God's intervention.

revomind:
Simple.
That's why we elect leaders. Leaders are supposed to make tough choices. If we are an indolent people, we will not elect someone as leader to simply come and make us more indolent. When people are afraid, they look up to leaders for courage and inspiration.

We have weak institutions. That's why our corruption seems endemic. I'm afraid its not cultural.

Weak institutions. That's our problem as a country. Its not necessarily people (they may help built it)who make up strong institutions but the very fact that an institution is a system that has a life of its own.

Sometimes blaming our leaders too is a bit pointless. I had a lecturer who got into our school newly. He's a disciplined man and never wanted to take bribes. We the students gave him a session and by the next he had bent his rules to start taking money. Why? His mates had bot cars, built or started building houses with the money they were collecting.

This leads me to belive that not all of the 774 LG chairmen, 36 governors got into position with the mind of being corrupt. The hear of their mates in other places stealing and getting away, relatives, friends, agberos, chiefs all asking for their share. What does he do? Loot, settle and keep the rest.

My point is how do you begin to clean up a rotten system without wiping it out and starting afresh. And without dictatorship cause in a democracy such things can be very difficult to achieve. Am not sure any country has done it successfully.

Nashville:
Someone once said there are two types of people in Nigeria - those that are corrupt and those that are waiting to be corrupt.

I completely agree. We have thrown away our values system. Please let us not blame our leaders; our leaders are just a reflection of our society so it is not their fault, rather it is our fault. So ask the average Nigerian if he wants to change the satus quo? He will tell you "after I chop my own" then we can change.

Corruption begat corruption and now it is endemic. Unfortunately, most Nigerians dont have a conscience any more, we don't even know what is bad. Even our religious institutions directly or indirectly encourage corruption. Infact corruption is not longer corruption. The only evidence of God's blessing in our society is the car you drive and the size of your wallet.

We will need a very strong and fearless leader to get us out of this mess and it will take a looooong time!

So true. I sometimes think a dictator that's focused on moving Nigeria forward would be best for us. Woulda nominated communism as well as its propagated speedy growth in China but don't know much about it.

Have spoken to tons of people, heard people's statements and I think the majority of Nigerians are only waiting to get a chance to enter a position of power.

A guy from the grassroots get to become a councillor and everyone expects him to build a house and have a fleet of cars. If he's still broke @ the end of his tenure, people call him a mumu.

Political parties besides the PDP are also corrupt. We are not measuring levels of corruption or how much they steal versus the work they do, but the very fact is that the majority of opposition parties are not democratized and are still involved in corrupt practices.

So what's the way forward?

Fighting corruption has to involve changing the way we think as a people too.

Have spoken to tons of people, heard people's statements and I think the majority of Nigerians are only waiting to get a chance to enter a position of power.

A guy from the grassroots get to become a councillor and everyone expects him to build a house and have a fleet of cars. If he's still broke @ the end of his tenure, people call him a mumu.

Political parties besides the PDP are also corrupt. We are not measuring levels of corruption or how much they steal versus the work they do, but the very fact is that the majority of opposition parties are not democratized and are still involved in corrupt practices.

So what's the way forward?

Fighting corruption has to involve changing the way we think as a people too.

Have spoken to tons of people, heard people's statements and I think the majority of Nigerians are only waiting to get a chance to enter a position of power.

A guy from the grassroots get to become a councillor and everyone expects him to build a house and have a fleet of cars. If he's still broke @ the end of his tenure, people call him a mumu.

Political parties besides the PDP are also corrupt. We are not measuring levels of corruption or how much they steal versus the work they do, but the very fact is that the majority of opposition parties are not democratized and are still involved in corrupt practices.

So what's the way forward?

Fighting corruption has to involve changing the way we think as a people too.

@Bluetooth,

Agreed. But just to inform the house the Legal Aid Council of Nigeria is supposed to provide free legal services to the masses (in theory sha).

A lawyer corper friend was posted there, and she and her principal were frequently in court to defend rape victims, armed robbery suspects and stuff. This was in the North and they collected like 10k to work on each case. So I believe if the woman is wise she can pursue such means and pray she gets a hefty payday. It's just unfortunate her son had to die and money can't bring him back.


legalaidcouncil.org.ng/

@Bluetooth

Thanks that's it.

Just Googled and here's a link to the original story and the 100million naira settlement the court awarded the lady.

davidajao.com/blog/2008/11/09/rear-admiral-harry-arogundade/

nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-388585.0.html


Maybe when Nigerians begin using Police/Military brutality cases as a means of getting rich in mass (the next Yahoo-Yahoo) this people will wake up.

question:
^^^^ Are you talking about sueing Nigerian Police? in Nigeria?.
Is this an advice or a wish?
LOL.

My broda, it's an advice. There was this case of a lady who was molested by some military men attached to a top gun in the military. Someone caught a video of it and sent it to CNN iReport. The woman sued and i think she was settled a hefty sum. The top gun who was being protected was also punished to an extent by a military tribunal.

Am giving very vague details cause can't correctly remember but this case was very popular when it happened and am too lazy to Google right now as on a mobile.

My point is the people begin to sue (it's not like the judges will reject the case or anything), the more attention is drawn to the issue. The NPF would spend a lot more money on legal fees and settlements (Money that the Fed Govt and NASS won't be happy about). Then you have the negative publicity and al. All these things I believe would make them wake up.

I just think we need to stop suffering in silence in this country.

I hear in the US some lawyers will take on a case for free for a share of spoils (settlement), the woman can search for such options if lawyer fees is a problem.

The woman whose son they killed should sue the hell out of the NPF, particularly the individuals who carried out the shooting (they need to go to jail) and the organization itself. When the mumu people begin paying for their crimes in cash and jail time they wake up.

Truth is that the Nigerian Police Force is the prime destination of people who take up the job cause there's no other option. Just ask any Policeman if he likes being a Policeman and hear what they say (besides being able to beat up anybody they want to).

The NPF houses all the Olodo's, Drop-outs, and Misfits in the country so it's basically a system of people who don't know what they doing.

I wonder why the Fed Govt can't institute a serious overall where they'll sack anyone who's not fit for the job and put in graduates (Bsc, Msc, HND, OND) as Inspectors, DPOs and such so the NPF can be less of a place for secondary school drop-outs who drink beer on duty.