₦airaland Forum

16k+ electricity bill?? Jesus, dats too high o for a residential house. You guys have to go and complain sharply cause if you pay promptly it'll only get higher.

Farming can make you a billionaire, but you'd need to have a lot things going for you. Political connections and all.

If you thumb down ur dreams a bit, YES, farming will make you live a comfortable life provided you know what you are doing.

Using children to rig is basically done by everybody. It's a form of rigging that would be very difficult to get rid of.

About your detected flaws. You are correct. But in the general sense of things. What are the chances a Party X or a Party Y would be able to bribe enough corpers at all the different polling units to affect the overall outcome. (2) unless during isolated elections where voter turnout is generally low, what are the chances of many PUs experiencing approx 50% voter turnout or less during the main election season (April).

I think there'd always be loop holes to exploit but it's as good as it gets right now. Another point is that there are supposed to be party agents at each of the polling units who'd monitor the process.

Where I did elections I had PDP, CPC and ACN agents. Am not too sure I could have rigged in anyone's favor without the agents cutting my head off. 

Nigerians are waiting for God to come and make things right. Jesus is coming soon. lol

Hehehe, don't know anything about LG elections. I was actually referring to INEC-organized elections not SIECs.

This thread is for the doubting "Thomases" that don't believe we've been holding free and fair elections since April 2011. If you have any ideas to add or to counter any of my points, please feel free.

1. Bribe Corper at Polling Unit - Bribing the corper at the polling unit is one way to rig an election in Nigeria. On the upside, you'd be buying the co-operation of an ad-hoc NYSC official, on the downside, this NYSC official has his hands tied.

Things a bribed Corper can do for you:
a. Hand over unused ballot papers to thumb print as you like.
b. Make a mistake to your advantage during the collation process at PU level.

Problems with (a). Unused ballot papers are usually less than 10% of total ballots. Unused ballots are primarily made up of people who registered but didn't show up. INEC officials won't give you in excess of registered voters at the PU since that'll be easily detected in court.

(b). Party agents will be present. You can count rubbish in front of them.

2. Bribe the Ward Collation Officer - the ward collation officer might be able to make adjustments on your behalf. But whatever results he collates won't tally with those collated at PU levels. Opposition agents as well as the police have copies of the results sheets generated at pu and ward levels. If they don't tally, wahala.

3. Bribe the LG collation office. Same as above. It gets harder at this stage.

4. Bribe Jega. Virtually impossible for him to influence outcome of the result at this level.

Let the debate begin.

Rather than scream scientific or spiritual rigging, why can't the ACN tink of ways to progress as a party. Expand deir brand, field viable candidates and consolidate with the opposition to beat the PDP. Rather than do this, they'll just continue playing the "I'm the opposition so PDP is bad" game and hope to win more states.

Nigeria needs political change.

For those clamoring revolutions, they largely don't work in a democracy especially here in Nigeria where there's too many issues. Issues that would ensure not too many people can ever come together to speak wiv a common voice.

Its a whole different case than in North Africa where they all wanted genuine elected leadership. Here in Nigeria, all our issues are as a result of corruption/negligence etc, they won't get fixed in one day.

@dendem,

From what I gather the elections were fair, maybe not 100% but fair enough that any potential manipulations wouldn't affect the overall outcome.

From what I know, even if you bribe the corper @ the post, he'll just collect the money and close mouth, the people who came to vote will still vote for whoever they wanted to vote for. Dis is in summary sha.

Why can't GEJ borrow funds to construct 1 or 2 new refineries, repair the old ones to maximum capacity?

This way government can remove subsidy over time and the eventual cost would be less than what they be today. We'd also be creating more jobs etc.

Is GEJ running away from the main problem? Corruption in NNPC and ko?

Fuel subsidy removal is a complex issue. I have a few questions for anyone with answers.

Why can't GEJ's government publish the names of importers on a monthly basis? Let's know how much fuel each importer brought in, how much they were paid etc,

I'm assuming that its corruption that's brought the subsidy bill to around a Trillion (coz d approropriation bill has it as 300 - 600 billion), if this is correct why can't Jonathan @ least try to clean up the bills. Let's know he's been serious about sanitizing that aspect of the sector and then Nigerians can decide to sacrifice a little inconvenience for further development by having the subsidy removed.

The problem is the average Nigerian has trust issues. Why should we trust GEJ's, the govs and everyone who'll benefit from the xtra cash to use the monies wisely.

Won't subsidy removal mean more money to loot?

These are the worries GEJ has to address,

@OP,

I like it. I think what we need in Nigeria are a set of huge what-to and how-to manuals to immune the Judiciary off corruption.

Did mister A steal 1billion naira? If proven yes, then how many years does that attract in the manual. This way a culprit can't bribe a judge to send him to prison for 6 months or pay a fine after stealing billions of Naira.

Don't know much about the penal codes but I don't think such crime for punishment details are this precise. And precision is just what we need to fight corruption.

Heard on a Channels program that the fees wouldn't affect current students and starts with only fresh entries.

How true is this? If true, why are these students on strike?

@gists,

Like what you said. Serious food for thought.

Beaf:
There is no opposition party in Bayelsa. But Timi Alaibe would most likely have won it if he was left to remain as a labour contestant, that is why he was tricked to come unto the stronger platform PDP offers with the promise of a waiver. As one of Jonathans strong men, he would easily have won the PDP primaries with ease, however the spotlight was already on Seriake Dickson. That is why Timi Alaibe's bid failed at the 11th hour, because the waiver never came.

It was cloack and dagger stuff in Bayelsa, but it is expected that Timi Alaibe and the likes of Doukpula that lost out in the operation against Sylva will be adequately compensated.

For those talking about the useless court injunction, let them understand that a judge is expected to know the law. In fact, that judge needs to be thoroughly investigated to find out why he gave a ruling that was so impossibly id!otic that it broke the law. . . It is known that Sylva doled out a lot of cash.

You've said it all man. You don't abide by an illegal/nonsensical injunction. But Nigerians once they hear injunction, it must be legal. Like the judge that gave Odili life immunity by granting a no-arrests injunction, that's just plain stupid and that judge + Odili should be behind bars.

Judges are human too and most of them are very well part of the corrupt system in Nigeria.

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=807133.msg9592935#msg9592935 date=1321738308]Again i repeat, it is not about slyva, it is about US, Nigerians and the ugly democratic foundation the likes of GEJ is laying for the unborn Nigeria. And your assertion that Dickson haven being a NASS member (mind you he is in the house of rep not senate) means He has followership wide enough to win him the governorship election is laughable. Where was Dickson when the last governorship primary in 2011 was conducted?[/quote]Thought he was a Senator, I guess you can scratch what I said about that.

But my point remains that a court shouldn't possess the power to postpone an election. Whether through an injunction, an ongoing court process or whatever, don't really get your angle on US, Nigeria etc, could you explain further? And what ugly democratic foundation is GEJ laying? If you mean the PDP disregarding a court injunction, then that clashes with my point that no court injunction should ever postpone an election (or any part of the electoral process) whether directly or indirectly.

Then lastly someone pointed out that the Electoral Law 2010 states that no judge can issue an injunction to delay or postpone etc, an election. The PDP primaries falls on the election calendar, it's part of the electoral process and indeed the election so does this make that injunction invalid? illegal?

The PDP has an internal set of rules for choosing candidates, and it's murky waters having a candidate go to court to stop the process, does the judge work on PDP's rules or the Constitution, Electoral Lawsetc, how do you determine that a candidate was wrongfully excluded from primaries when the rules to the supposed primaries is based on a law created by the PDP constitution, they can basically do whatever they want provided there's a reason (backable by their constitution) to disqualify any candidate. I don't think any judge can validly rule in this case. Unless the PDP has no excuse for disqualifying Sylva (no matter how flimsy it is).

These are my thoughts,

I continue to insist that Nigeria isn't ripe for a full-fledged democracy cause it won't work.

If Jonathan didn't help usher out Sylva (who btw hasn't done much in terms of development) and support Dickson, a serving senator, Sylva being the incumbent would have bribed his way to the primaries and its Bayelsians who'd suffer it.

Noting says that minus the disqualification of Syvla, d process that selected Dickson wasn't Free and Fair. For him to be a Senator means he already possesses a lot of followership in Bayelsa.

The most important thing sha is that the guy does a good job if he should win.

[quote author=Omo_Tier1 link=topic=807133.msg9592666#msg9592666 date=1321735630]Electoral act is not bigger than the constitution of the Federal republic of Nigeria and what the Slyva case would do most likely is test the validity of that aspect of the law so passed by the despotic 6th NASS.

Again, you need to study the grounds of Slyva's case and the reply filed by the PDP in court this week.[/quote]Thing is a court should never be able to grant an injunction to suspend or deter an election from takin place. It just doesn't make sense. Just like in the case of Odili having an injunction that he can't be arrested and tried in any law court.

So the issue is it legal to grant an injunction against a party primary knowing fully well that delaying it will delay the electoral process. INEC will be forced to delay the election to accomodate the suit as they can't leave the PDP out. So where does this viscious circle stop?

Can we delay elections in a country based on an injunction? Whatever the reason for granting the injunction I think the answer should be NO. Otherwise this will be a loophole employed by the ruling class to delay elections in the future. Or by just about anybody with a "Selfish" agenda.

ouigy99:
For me, Dutse (jigawa) is the worst in the northern zone, Abakiliki (ebonyi) in eastern zone and yenogoa (bayelsa) in southern zone,

When last were you in Dutse? Have you been to Damaturu? Stop jumping the gun. At least Dutse is very well planned and has really nice roads.

Whoever mentions Benin or Lafia hasn't travelled much. Benin has changed a lot since Oshiomole.

They didn't build three planes, they modified three planes and weaponized them.

There was a high level of ingenuity amongst the Biafrans but this is a bit far from technological advancement.

You can't say wielding thick steel plates to a car is a technological accomplishment, or even building a canon gun in the 1960's,

The Biafrans were intelligent enough to make use of existing resources and modify them to suit their needs, but that doesn't imply technological advancement.

The Libyan Rebels did lots of crazy modifications too, including putting anti-aircraft missiles at the back of a hilux truck, and so on,

Sounds like a great idea on paper but in the real world, no such deal can be implemented 100%. Will the looters be able to give up all their stolen assets in full? Who determines what was ill-gotten and legitimate? etc,

I think anyone taking up the position of CMD should have a lot of experience in the Medical field and also possess some form of Health Management training.

With that said, Doctors are sort of generalists in the any Hospital. A doctor knows the job of a Pharmacist, a Nurse, a Radiologist, and so on. But every other person working in a hospital is sort of specialized in a specific field.

A Doctor can replace a pharmacist or nurse (cause they know the generalities of their work) but neither of these people can replace a Doctor.

That's why Health Care Centres don't handle complex cases in the absence of a Doctor.

I'm not a Doctor BTW.

This is what we should do in Nigeria. Create separate poverty lines for urban and rural dwellers. India already does it.

India's official poverty level, on the other hand, is split
according to rural vs. urban thresholds. For urban
dwellers, the poverty line is defined as living on less than
538.60 rupees (approximately USD $12) per month,
whereas for rural dwellers, it is defined as living on less
than 356.35 rupees per month (approximately USD $7.50).
[15] By this measure, only 27.5% of Indians live in
poverty,[citation needed] whereas by the World Bank
standard of $1.25 per day, 42% of Indians live in
poverty[citation needed] – this is the third highest rate in
South Asia after Bangladesh and Bhutan.

Relative Poverty

A measure of relative poverty defines "poverty" as being
below some relative poverty threshold. For example, the
statement that "households with an accumulated income
less than 60% of the median equivalized household
disposable income are living in poverty" uses a relative
measure to define poverty. In this system, if everyone's
real income in an economy increases, but the income
distribution stays the same, then the rate of relative
poverty will also stay the same.
Relative poverty measurements can sometimes produce
odd results, especially in small populations. For example, if
the median household in a wealthy neighborhood earns US
$1 million each year, then a family that earns US$100,000
would be considered poor on the relative poverty scale,
even though such a family could meet all of its basic needs
and much more. At the other end of the scale, if the
median household in a very poor neighborhood earned
only 50% of what it needs to buy food, then a person who
earned the median income would not be considered poor
on a relative poverty scale, even though the person is
clearly poor on an absolute poverty scale.
Measures of relative poverty are almost the same as
measuring income inequality: If a society gets a more
equal income distribution, relative poverty will fall.
Following this, some argue[who?] that the term relative
poverty is itself misleading and that income inequality
should be used instead.[citation needed] They point out
that if society changed in a way that hurt high earners
more than low ones, then relative poverty would
decrease, but every citizen of the society would be worse
off. Likewise in the reverse direction: it is possible to
reduce absolute poverty while increasing relative poverty.
The term relative poverty can also be used in a different
sense to mean "moderate poverty" –- for example, a
standard of living or level of income that is high enough to
satisfy basic needs (like water, food, clothing, shelter, and
basic health care), but still significantly lower than that of
the majority of the population under
consideration

Absolute Poverty

David Gordon's paper, "Indicators of Poverty & Hunger",
for the United Nations, further defines absolute poverty as
the absence of any two of the following eight basic needs:

Food: Body Mass Index must be above 16.
Safe drinking water: Water must not come from solely
rivers and ponds, and must be available nearby (less
than 15 minutes' walk each way).
Sanitation facilities: Toilets or latrines must be
accessible in or near the home.
Health: Treatment must be received for serious
illnesses and pregnancy.
Shelter: Homes must have fewer than four people living
in each room. Floors must not be made of dirt, mud, or
clay.
Education: Everyone must attend school or otherwise
learn to read.
Information: Everyone must have access to
newspapers, radios, televisions, computers, or
telephones at home.
Access to services: This item is undefined by Gordon,
but normally is used to indicate the complete panoply
of education, health, legal, social, and financial ( credit)
services.

For example, a person who lives in a home with a mud
floor is considered severely deprived of shelter. A person
who never attended school and cannot read is considered
severely deprived of education. A person who has no
newspaper, radio, television, or telephone is considered
severely deprived of information. All people who meet any
two of these conditions — for example, they live in homes
with mud floors and cannot read — are considered to be
living in absolute poverty.

I think I should correct myself @ this point. Just got stats (again from Wikipedia) that says only 45% of Nigerians live below poverty line.

This is so much more like it.

But my questions remain if I can feed, house myself and go to work and back for $2/day am I poor? How is this poverty line calculated and is it adjusted to suit the Nigerian environment or is it the same metric used for all countries alike?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nigeria

This link also states that unemployment is actually ~4.7% based on 2007 estimates.

What do guys think?

[quote author=Mr. Globe link=topic=794653.msg9468311#msg9468311 date=1320260883]@Iolo maybe you didnt read that china recently drove majority of its poor into the middle class. There is no middleclass in Nigeria. None. You say the 'whites' are against your success but you collect aid from. We are not against a revolution in Nigeria but we must first understand where its pinching us. There are statistics on other nations but we must reject ours without bringing ours.[/quote]Lol, did they use koboko or broom to drive them? Just kidding. My point is that China has much more poor people by numbers (not %) so it's easy to say for example, there are 700M poor people in China just like the 80% bull they do to Nigeria.

Why would you say there is no middle class in Nigeria?

Bankers, Civil servants (level 8 and up), Doctors, Nurses, Entrepreneurs, Private firm workers, Federal University lecturers etc etc, please where do these people fall into? Cause to me they aren't poor and they aren't rich either.


Even danfo drivers are not poor poor cause they make 20 - 30k+ monthly when you deduct agbero, police taxation from their incomes.

ziga:
@Iolo
Unfortunately, I don't think anybody will be able to logically make a case to disprove your points. Nigerians don't like to be challenged, they prefer to remain wherever they have been put and blame anything else for their situation. . . the Government, Pastor, God ets ets.

Clearly this thread proves that maybe up to 80% of Nigerians are unintelligent and are emotionally unstable.

I've been lol @ what you just said, especially the emotionally unstable part.

Thing is I'm hugely patriotic, not in the present Nigeria, but the future Nigeria we can build for ourselves. But it seems like the average man will rather sit down, wait for God to conduct the revolution and it's life goes on. This "the politicians run this country, we have no business with it, so I will just pray and go my way" mentality is bad.

And for people who are thinking we can even start a revolution in this country like what happened in the middle east, truth is we can't. Why? The average Nigerian isn't bothered about the country's future. We just want what we'll use to manage ourselves till the savior comes.

I'm beginning this whole thing is a ploy to prevent Africa from moving forward. Or maybe the white's are only taking advantage of our gullibility as the churches have. Why don't they tell the world how many people in China live on less than $2/day? Even if they do, the Chinese simply don't care, they have a country to build. 

Disclaimer: I'm a Christian and believe in God, so that's not the issue.

Hi everyone,

The reason I created this thread was to engage healthy debate on the topic. I wanted to see how people would react, and get a clue to how the average Nigerian thinks.

My personal opinion is that 80% of Nigerians definitely don't live on less than $2/day, but I was looking for someone who says otherwise to come up with statistics, and facts that are verifiable. Let's move past the using sentiments to solve our problems stage, because that's part of our many problems too.

Saying some people here are hungry looking, they haven't got salaries for 6 months blah blah blah, that's all irrelevant to the debate.

All you need do is ask:

These so-called poor people, what's the cumulative worth of their other daily expenditures + feeding (whether they buy the food or not)?

I am not saying the average Nigerian spends more than $2/day, what I am saying is that the average Nigerian lives on much more than $2/day. There's a difference.

Don't these guys eat? Are they not clothed? Don't they have mobiles? + they simply haven't died of starvation.

We all know the roads are bad, there's corruption, and people are suffering which is all true. But until we start thinking from a problem solving perspective, we would never reach the levels the Chinese and Japanese got to by believing in themselves.

Again, statistics, facts and figures to either disprove the topic or support the topic is what's needed.

coogar:
i doubt there are up to 500,000 blackberries in nigeria, let alone 1 million.

just so you know, there are only 70 million blackberry phones worldwide.
only 43 million use the blackberry internet service worldwide and the b.i.s. is available in 91 countries . . .so how would nigeria have 1 million active users? na yam?

like mr. globe said, 80% poverty rate is very generous. i will say 90% live on less than $2 per day.

Here's the link.

businessdayonline.com/NG/index.php/tech/telecoms/25088-blackberry-hits-1million-mark-in-nigeria

So if Nigerians own 1.2M blackberries with 500,000 active subscribers, it means we represent slightly more than 1.5% of the 70M blackberry users worldwide.

If we say 80% Nigerians are poor. We have 90M mobile phones and up to a million blackberry's now.

Assuming that on average only 50% of the lines are in use, that's 45M sim cards presently in a mobile phone.

Can someone who owns a mobile phone, pays @ least 100 transport daily, feeds with ~200naira, pays school fees etc. Be said to be live below $2/day?.

Here's a list of people in Nigeria who validly live below $2/day (and am not saying the rest are rich either):

Mad People
Sick(Bed-Ridden), Beggars,
Toddlers, Kids (14 downwards), Almajiris (~12 - 20 yrs)
Old people (70years+)

Add these people up and you don't get 120M (assuming we r 150M).

The rest of us are simply underemployed, shikena.

Sadly, Nigeria now lacks a thinking/problem-solving culture. When faced with issues rather than think why it is like that, we simply accept, and say "ehen, I have suspecting this is how it is".