You think God created sin? Ehya, no wonder the misconceptions.

God did NOT creat sin.

Genesis 1:31 "and God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was VERY GOOD. . ."

Sin originated from misusage of FREEWILL. A freewill being chose evil over good. That is how sin originated. God didn't create it.

"life and death I set before you this day. . .but I counsel you to choose LIFE"

Good - Evil, Life - Death, Righteousness - Unrighteousness, Holy - Unholy etc are opposite to each other.

It's either you're doing the one or the other. There's no option in-between.

[quote author=Hanabian post=58284666]
Sister,your reply shows that you are not grasping the crux of the matter.
At first bolded, who created sin in the first instance? Did man create sin or did sin magically appear from thin air? After answering that,now ask yourself why did God allow Adam and Eve to sin(as we are told) when they didn't know their left from their right?And yet use same to punish people who had no knowledge of the sin in the first place.
Now, a bit background. Remember that Adam and Eve were made(bible) not given birth to,so in all ramifications, it is totally safe to say they never knew what they were doing,they were children.Now God is all knowing, he has known that Adam and Eve were going to sin before they even did it(omniscient). But did he do anything about it? As someone who sees into the future,he would have seen all the possible ways to scenario would have gone right? But did he do anything about it?
Another fundamental question is,why even put the tree there in the first place?

Obalende:

Because we are mere objects of war to be cast to hell mostly due to no fault of our own and be blamed for it... Salvation of Christ is not perfect, if it were, it would have delivered us from the power of sin; christianity is very complicated and full of threats. i dont expect u to have all the answers because you are not God. but thanks at least for listening.

Salvation of Christ is perfect and it HAS saved all that have in Him from the power of sin.

Point out those threats and complications.

Obalende:


ok then thanks.
To all others reading this for centuries Christianity has heaped blame on mankind and I think this is undeserved.... It is God who ordains. Why blame us after ordaining.

What exactly do you mean by "it is God who ordains" ?

I just told you "man was created perfect!". Put that into consideration.

Obalende:


You have written a very wicked piece. Listen to me: God created a devil designated as a tempter, God also created demons to do evil biddings of entrapping us in sin, gave us sinful natures - then how is it my choice that i am entrapped in sin - these powers are too strong for man or woman! Its intellectually lazy to just say we are chosing to remain in sin - address this issue i have just raised if you could...

I just did.

Your whole point lies in ignoring the beginning. Which is not right.

Obalende:


we were given a sinful nature; the Bible says the heart of man is wicked - all our freewill choices will therefore be wicked.
So why blame us when we were born that way?

(yawns).

Omo, these people no go kill us. It wasn't so from the beginning.

Man was created perfect!

Ngo40:


Lol @ (your big aunty)....
Well your aunty has a NEW moniker....."Ngo40".
MzLady39 has been put to rest...she is no more.
Out with the "old" & in with the "new"!
I don't know how in the world that you knew I would want to speak on this thread..but as soon as I saw it, I knew I was coming for this one......
However, it looks like you nailed it!
I'll see what I can add....if anything.

Oh Aunty, I'll follow up at once.

CONTINUATION.

Romans 14:23b "for whatsoever is not of faith is SIN"

Galatians 5:6 "for in Christ, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith which works by LOVE"

During Under Grace Era, SIN is therefore defined as

"whatsoever is not of faith which works by LOVE".


WHICH OF THE DEFINITIONs PERTAINs TO US?


The 1st Era lasted from the fall of man till when Moses brought the LAW.

The 2nd Era lasted from Moses till when Jesus resurrected.

Jesus' Resurrection marked the beginning of the 3rd Era, which is still on till date.

Romans 1:17 "for therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH"

Did you know that there are 3Eras in the Bible?

The Bible gives 3different definition of sin, and each functioned for each Era.

Without properly understanding these 3Eras and the operations under them, the topic of SIN and many other Bible topic will appear confusing and contradictory to you.

THE 3-ERAS IN THE BIBLE.

i. Before the LAW: during this Era, sin was determined by MORALITY. James 4:17 captures the definition of SIN in this Era.

"refusing to do what one knows is good to do".

ii. Under the LAW: the Law came and sin was no longer determined by MORALITY(individual/societal conviction). It was strictly determined by the LAW. 1John 3:4 captures the definition of sin during this Era.

"for the transgression of the LAW is sin"

iii. Under Grace: Jesus brought Grace John 1:17. And the LAW ENDED.

The Manner of life under Grace is by faith(which works by LOVE) from the start to the finish. Hebrews 11:6.

Romans 14:23b and Galatians 5:6 captures the definition of SIN during this Era.

..to be continued

@lilyqueeny.

Nice write-up my sister.

WordWorld is probably one of those Holiness . . . . . . and the write-up up there is just not compatible with his beliefs. Esp that number 2.

The thing hang am!

But thank God say Sir Sincere4u don let am off the hook sha.

@MrSinister

The passage given you is obvious and self-explanatory.

The story of Job explains Isaiah 5. Just that, in Job's case, it wasn't because of his sins that he was exposed to tortures from satan.




God's interested in you, He wants you to acknowledge Him and come into an intimate relationship with you.

You see, God has been keeping you since despite your unfaithfulness to Him, hoping that one day you'll return to Him.

But since that method isn't working, as you're in comfort zone(where God has caused you to be and upholding you there), He thought maybe if He withdraw a little, and let your enemy(satan) heat you a little, maybe then, you'll see a reason to come to Him.

You know, they say, "suffering makes one strong"

And it's a fact that beatings makes a child come back to it's right senses.


So, He'll just allow that for your own benefit.




My Big Aunty MzLady39 should have a word or two for you.

@OtemAtum

Well, I now see clearly that in your attempt to hold unto logic, you've totally abused logical reason.



Lemme start with, do you mind explaining to us what could've been responsible for picking Isaiah 5:5, out of say, a million verses in the Bible?

By the LAW OF PROBABILITY AND POSSIBLE OUTCOME, to randomly pick a single event out of a million narrows down to 1per Million.

Plus: I've not even addressed how large a human cerebrum is, and how much datas/informations he must have saved, in say, 20yrs of his existence. . . I hope you understand how narrowed down the possibility of the brain being responsible for this action is?

This points to no other fact save that there is an external cause for picking Isaiah 5:5.



Think about this.

@Oaroloye

If you're interested in a discussion, I plead with you to bring forth your points(against Paul) one after the other, not using bulky notes, and I promise to help explain as many as I can.


But, to start with, DO YOU KNOW WHAT JESUS' MISSION FOR THE LAW WAS?

In Matthew 5:17, He said, " donot think I've come to abolish the Law and the Prophets; I've come to fulfill them"

If you understand what that means, YOU WON'T be insisting or the LAW nor CONDEMNING PAUL's TEACHINGS.

I know you'll also say Paul was wrong for saying, "Christ is the END of the LAW for righteousness to everyone that believes" (Romans 10:4).

I'll Advise you, it's NOT all about quoting LONG BULKY verses, it's about understanding what you quote.

To understand any portion of the Bible, you must explain it so that it does NOT conflict with any verse of the Bible.

Jesus brought 'Grace and Truth' (John 1:17), but you said, "there's NOTHING LIKE GRACE -IT DOESN'T EXIST!"





Think about/cross check again, what you teach.

@Oaroloye


The simple truth is, you donot understand the Bible.

You mean, Jesus' Words should be taken literally?

Lemme ask you, "do you bury the dead?"

Well, Jesus said to a man who wanted to follow Him, saying, "let the dead bury their dead"

So, I guess you stop burying the dead. Let the body out in the field and rotten up.


Also, Jesus said, "if you want to follow Me, you MUST HATE your father and mother"

Go on and hate your parents.

May God deliver you from this your so-called Gospel. It's sickening!



Jesus charged His Disciples not to disclose His Identity as THE CHRIST, you donot even care to know why He charged them thus. And you think you understand why He gave them that charge, and what He intended to achieve by giving them that instruction?

"with all your gettings, get UNDERSTANDING"

Martinez19:
This guy called Oaroloye is hateful, unapproachable and full of himself. He is repulsive. His attitude and Jesus Christ has nothing in common.

The answer is NOT far at all. He takes every of Jesus' Word literally.

e.g to follow me, "you MUST HATE your father and mother, and yea, even your life"



That's Bad of him. He never study to understand what Lord Jesus Christ really meant/teaches.


This is how he STRAYED away!

Brother Oaroloye;

I'll be responding to your posts one after the other. I took the pain of going thru all of them even tho' they're lengthy.

I beg that you consider your readers and make it at least, a bit shorter but carrying all the intended messages you intend to convey.


Seeing that you consider the Apostles as astrayed fellows, I'll mind the way I quote from the Epistles.

My Aim ultimately is to show you how The Apostles' Teachings corresponds with the Teachings of the Lord Jesus.

Your point 3: "there's no such thing as Grace" is in direct conflict with John 1:17.

"for The Law was given by Moses, but GRACE and Truth came by Jesus Christ"

Here, we're informed plainly that Jesus Brought 'GRACE and Truth' to mankind.

plappville:


The latest i heard about Muslims is that. Muslim doctor will prefare a Christian patient to die during Ramadan. They consider us dirty.

Issorite.

I tire for their "religion of peace" o when it's clearly the opposite.

@TAEpiphany

The answer is not too far.

Words evolve. Infact, languages entirely. Take for example the words "miss", "missus(mrs)", "mz" etc. These words have evolved overtime.

In the OT, the term "the Law" refers only to the Pentateuch (the Torah, more precisely).

But during the time of the NT, the term has evolved to mean "the whole of the OT" as we can see NT writers using the term to refer to "the Prophets" also.

1Corinthians 14:21 "in the LAW it is written. . .". . . . . . This quotes the Prophet Isaiah and refer to his book as "the Law". See: Isaiah 28:11-12.


Having said that, when Jesus said he had come to 'fulfill the Law' it's obvious he meant, he has come to fulfill the OT, not the 10Commandments only.

Sorry to displease you, but I've to quote some Epistles now (big grin).

Apostle Paul understanding what I've explained above, by the Spirit, said, "for Christ is the END of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believes" (Romans 10:4).

Hehehehehe. No wonder these guys dey beef Apostle Paul.

To add to: you mention the "Good Master" acct in Matthew 19:17-19 but you ommitted verse 21. How unfair!

And na you come hia kon dey emphasize on "context, context, context". You try sha.

But I won't bother explaining that one to you 'cause you can't understand it. You know why?

Babu Holy Sphirit in you.

That's where the Ark Of Covenant is kept. Anyone else who accesses the Most Holy Place, apart from the High Priest dies. And even the High Priest only access it once a year, on the Day Of Atonement.

In summary, The Most Holy Place is the power Room of the Law where nobody is allowed to look into, except the High Priest's once a year visit.

Are you getting something now?

The Curtain rented. many people would have taken the oportunity to gaze into the room, wondering, "what's in this room sef?"

From this event onward, The Most Holy Place is Never said to hold any power anymore.


What strengthen/upheld the Law had gone!

So, yes! Jesus fulfilled The Law. And The Law has returned to God.


Thank You Jesus!! . . . . . . . . . . . .to be continued.

Now, the question is, did Jesus fulfill the Law?

All Moslems attests to this fact that Jesus fulfilled the Law.

Wow! What a relief! seems I won't have to prove it since they already agree with me on this part.

But chai, to further show that it's not an empty claim, lemme show it. (big grin).

In Matthew 27:50-51 shows us what happened exactly when Jesus fulfilled the Law.

"Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost (this is where he fulfilled the Law---lukat what happened next) 'and, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth died quake, and the rocks rent;"



Have you read that? I know you read it tho' but yet didn't find anything interesting/meaningful to you.

How can you then claim to understand anything from the Bible? (sick)

Ok- Ceeam! Where that veil cover is the part of the temple which is called 'the most holy place". This part is only accessible by the High Priest, and that, once a year. . . . . . . to be continued.

Having read that, I know you didn't see anything of use to you there. (smiles).

Ok! Comman see what's there.

That verse shows us how God's word(the Law, and all God's word) operates.

i. It's sent out.
ii. It accomplishes it's purpose.
iii. And after that, it returns back to God.

Notice: "it shall not return to me VOID", that means, God's Word will certainly return to Him, but not VOID(that means, after it's fulfilled).

Having said this, I'm glad that this my Moslem friend brought the verse that would finish him. (smiles).

Matthew 5:17-18 Tells us that Jesus has come to fulfill the Law.

Infact, what I've explained above, helps us to understand verse 18 better.

Where Jesus said, "the Law will not pass away, until it's fulfilled"

That means, "the Law will pass away when it's fulfilled"

I'm spoon feeding you. (big grin). Hope you're enjoying it? (smiles).

. . .to be continued.

Wow! This has been interesting so far. The Bible part caught my attention, as I don't go about studying an unprofitable book, the Koran(altho', I do, a little).



Now, lemme quickly bring this forth. I know Moslems don't like Apostle Paul's Epistles. Hehehehe. So, for a short while, I won't bring them in. (wink).


The Law, as we all know, is God's word delivered to the Israeli Nation thru Moses. It contains rules, regulations and instructions by which they(the Israeli nation) should live.

But, however, the Law was not to remain permanently.


Long before Jesus declared His Mission for the Law(i.e to fulfill it), Isaiah had told us what would happen to the Law when it's fulfilled.

Isaiah 55:11 "so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the things whereto I sent it." . . . . .to be continued.

@Akiintom


MzLady39 has answered you on my behalf.

She has answered, as far as I know, all your questions. So, I think I should save my strength for another question/time.

Be reasonable not to ask answered questions over and over again.

Akiintom:


" mystery of iniquity" is a creation of men, that can't explain why Satan sinned.

I expect that you can now see, that the whole biblical cosmology, is completely mythical and superstitious.

I've already explained why satan sinned.

He misused his freewill and corrupted himself.

lepasharon:

Why?

If the head is sick, the whole body is sick with it.

plappville:


All is Scriptures fulfilling. Islam is fulfilling the bible prophecies without knowing. In their mind they are killing for Yahwen. But infact, they are killing for the bllod socking allah who is Satan himself.

John 16:2 ►
They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God.

Abi o.

1Corinthians 2:7-8

"7. but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory. 8. WHICH NONE OF THE PRINCES OF THIS WORLD KNEW: FOR HAD THEY KNOWN IT, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE CRUCIFIED THE LORD OF GLORY."



God's plan is always mysterious to them. they can't understand it. And that is why, when they think they are hindering His plans; they don't know that they are only fulfilling them.

Akiintom:


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


You're contradicting yourself here.

*you have said on this thread, that infants are sinners, because they came from Adam and Eve.

*you said born again Christian are exempted from consequences of sin.

You see how confused your God is?

*first Yahweh said he will visit sin, to 4th generation.

*with the same mouth, he said the soul that sin shall die.

Are infants born again? if yes, how?

Oh yes, anyone who is born again is saved from sin.


Simply ask questions and you'll get answers. For your last two point, I'll reserve the answers. but take note that those are not contradictions.

Akiintom:


Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


You're contradicting yourself here.

*you have said on this thread, that infants are sinners, because they came from Adam and Eve.

*you said born again Christian are exempted from consequences of sin.

You see how confused your God is?

*first Yahweh said he will visit sin, to 4th generation.

*with the same mouth, he said the soul that sin shall die.

Are infants born again? if yes, how?

Oh yes, anyone who is born again is saved from sin.


Simply ask questions and you'll get answers. For your last two point, I'll reserve the answers. but take note that those are not contradictions.

Deicide:

If Christianity was the fulfillment of Judaism why didn't Jesus preach about it? Did Jesus ever mention the word Christianity? From Matthew to Even Revelation?

Lemme start from; Judaism is the religion of the Jews which is based on the Mosaic Law.

Jesus clearly stated in Matthew 5:17 that He has come to fulfill THE LAW(Judaism).

When He was about leave them(i.e die on the Cross), He told His disciples, in fact, that there are alot of things He can't teach them, cause they can't bear them yet. . .that they will only be able to bear those things when the Holy Spirit comes into them. John 16:12-13.


Those things are the effects His Death and Resurrection will effect. Those are the things found in Acts-Revelations.


I believe this answered your question.

This thing about Christianity and Israel. Hmmm!


It should be noted that in the Bible are recorded two different beliefs(religions, as you may call it).

1. Judaism - Stretches from Genesis to Malachi.

Altho' it was also practiced during the Gospel Times (Matthew-John).

2. Christianity - Jesus' Resurrection marked the birth(beginning) of Christianity. It stretches from Acts-Revelations.



Christianity is God's Ultimate plan. Judaism was just to be until Christianity arrives. Because Christianity is the fulfillment of Judaism.

Now, show me in the Christian Era where violence, hate etc is taught -those who say Christianity teaches violence, hate etc. @AccidentalGenius.

@plappville


Jesus!!! (crying). All these killings?


well, if dying is what it takes, I'm ready to be killed(for Christ, my Lord).

"20. According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. 21. FOR TO ME TO LIVE IS CHRIST, AND TO DIE IS GAIN. . .23. for I am torn between the two: having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24. nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. 25. and having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;"



To die is no problem to me, but I still have alot to accomplish(in the body of Christ). So, until then, none can kill me, neither will I die. @APCSupporter.

AccidentalGenius:


don't wish such evil upon me! i'd imagine you have surrendered you life to your mythical jesus, thats why its the way it is. original plan

1Corinthians 1:18-31

"18. for the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. . .21. for after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 22. for the Jews require a sign, and the Greek seek after wisdom: 23. but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblinblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24. but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25. because the foolisness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."


Mr AccidentalGenius, be it known to you that "there's none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12).