₦airaland Forum

Mcleo007:
How do you mean people are not overpaying?
You’re paying about £2k or more for an 18‑month period, and in that time you might only see the GP once or twice. How does that not show that you’ve paid a lot for something you barely use?
The way you’re putting it makes it sound like every migrant uses the NHS in the same way, and that’s just not true. There are people who have been here for four or five years and have only been to the GP maybe twice. And even then, they’re still paying for their medication out of pocket.
The bigger issue, if we’re being honest, is the government underfunding the NHS. The population has grown, but the system hasn’t expanded to match it. Instead of taking responsibility for that gap, it’s easier to point fingers and blame immigrants, especially the legal ones who are actually paying into the system.
And yes, some dependents don’t pay the Immigration Health Surcharge. But whose decision was that? They didn’t set those rules themselves. If the exemption wasn’t there, do you really think they wouldn’t pay?
It just feels like people are focusing on the wrong problem.

Fact is IHS is double taxation and a profitable revenue source for the government.

The odd thing is that migrating folks on average are healthier than similar folks in the country they are migrating to. This has been well studied and holds true across countries.
At first, it seems odd but when you think thru, it makes sense. Modern migration to developed nations is highly selective. How many people in Nigeria with significant physical or mental health issues are able to migrate?

Go to the reception of your local GP surgery, outpatient clinic or even ED waiting area. It'd strike you that most migrants you'd see would be healthcare workers and the demographic distribution among service recipients in most areas would hardly match that of the wider area. Many migrants for the first few years fail to grasp that the NHS is actually 'free'.

Zahra29:
Compare a migrant at 40 who has worked in the UK for 2 years and paid £2,000 IHS + income tax - there is *absolutely* no way he has paid more into the system than his British peer who has been working since 21 (and part time since he was 16 / 17 years) and has thus paid into the system for >20 years.

You and how you repeatedly report falsehoods.

The average 25yo Brit in pure financial terms is already an economic negative to the tune of 500k to the government. Many remain in the negative all through their working life. This is a well researched fact.

Conversely, a 25yo migrant on the other hand reaims a net positive lifelong. Their coming is like handing the government a 500k cheque with at least a 6 year insurance. Many even top-up their 500k cheque with over 30k in student fees. You have a full grown working adult who would be on average more healthy than the local populace (true), already educated and ready to work on whom the government has spent nothing.

Take myself as an example. I came to the UK in my late 20's, already educated, healthy and without a criminal record. I went on the work providing services even during Covid and paying higher rate taxes all thru. Only used NHS services once and contributed hugely to the economy (and vice-versa).

The Nigerian society was responsible for my primary education/health e.t.c from birth until my prime. What would it cost the UK government of I was to be replaced by someone local. First, you have to start counting costs from maternity costs/benefits (for the persons mother), healthcare in the young, risk of delinquency e.t.c in teenage years. Then the child has to have good grades and now proceed to uni e.t.c. All that they got on a platter. There is a reason the UK keeps returning to seek migrants.

Zahra29:
I think you would find that private insurance or paying out of pocket would be far more expensive than the IHS flat fee - do you know how much an NHS birth and ante/post natal care costs? (Hint - A lot more than £1,035 especially if there are any complications).

Another falsehood again. Why not tell us the cost of a night on the ICU or the cost of brain surgery. You should learn how insurance works.

I'd give you another example. A while back, my car was totalled. I got over 12k paid back whereas my annual insurance fee was a little above 600. Do you think my insurance provider was being benevolent or should I go around jubilating on how 'cheap' insurance premiums are? Afterall, the cost of replacing a vehicle or settling law suit could run into hundreds of thousands but yet, they only charge us a smaller sum.

The bottom line here is simple- migrants should fund their healthcare same way everyone else does theirs which is through their taxes.

Goke7:
Just to add my 10 kobo, you won’t be young forever o and old age can be financially devastating, you may think the pension doesn’t make sense now until then.

If you’re going to stay in this country for the long term and not a mobile migrant like some of us don’t even dare opting out of any pension e get why o!

Still surprised this conversation keeps popping up.

What I find both surprising and worrying is the report that many migrants in his Trust have opted out. I thank God for a senior colleague I spoke with when I arrived. I was all about how I'd return after some years. Chap told me that's what most say initially (including him) but very few actually do return. The prospect of returning one day shouldn't stop me from taking advantage of opportunities right now.

Even for someone intent on moving again, it manytimes makes sense to remain. First, you'd get only a tiny bit of the money and things can always pan out differently. The main times when leaving may make financial sense is for either GP partners who pay both their employee and employer NI or very high earners.

ehizario2012:
I'm really interested in this topic because I've been contemplating stopping my NHS pension. Is paying NI not enough? That extra 8.5% is somehow jare! Many immigrants in my trust have opted out but I'm still unsure 🤔

Would have asked ehy you want to stop but I see this has been discussed in detail already

Goke7:
FYI

https://blog.investengine.com/rachel-reeves-tax-cash-in-stocks-and-shares-isa/

The more harder it is to come to the uk, get ready to part more with your money as a resident! Simple

Even your dividends, rental income they are all coming for it even state pension.

Happy viewing 😂

Hehehe...
After limiting cash ISAs for those under 65, it appears they are just trying to close a loophole for those who'd leave uninvested cash in the S&S ISA and still get similar risk-free gains on it.

If it pushes folks towards market investing, then it'd be better however, my worry is that with all the recent changes and how they are framed by the media, it likely would put alot of people off investing.

While the idea is commendable, the pace of construction on most of the new roads have been slow.
Doesn't help when praise singers are clapping for every tipper of sand

It's interesting what difference a name can make on the ballot. Burnham being on the ballot moves Labour from a sure loser to a strong contender.

It does seem Reform are now the true opposition.
This is a seat Labour has always won and the Cons followed in second place (asides the last). Now, the cons are polling 6th below Greens and LibDems and it's not even making new. That's the worry.
1yr is a long time in British politics but at this rate, the cons are struggling for even second place. Quite surreal.

Kushites:
My brother can you imagine a full grown MAN telling himself and the world that BECAUSE OF HIS SKIN COLOUR, he cannot rule himself, and needs white colonisers to rule him?

AND HE GOT OVER 40 LIKES SO FAR FOR HIS COMMENT.

THESE PEOPLE ARE DAMAGED.

THEY NEED A COMPREHENSIVE REORIENTATION.

UTTER DISGRACE.

It's pathetic. I've come acorss such on occasions and always told them a big impediment to Nigeria moving forward is folks who think like them.
It's what decades of brainwashing can do- make you see yourself as inferior.

What's annoying is how the mods and nairaland allow such statements to stand. Oddly, many foreign online media would take down such posts. What's more harrowing is the number of likes it receives. We need a national reorientation.

Interesting stats... wonder how it translates in actual numbers to say 2 or 3 bed houses.

The south has the headwind of being much more expensive than the north but the north has relatively relatively higher rents i.e better rental yeilds for investors.

There's lots of talk about the north now having better capital gains too which was previously the forte of the south. As my places are in the south, this chart has got me thinking.

Eba50:
Botha made it very clear that blackman can't rule himself well or properly.blacks attacked him for making that statement. Time has proven him very correct. I still wonder y azikiwe, awolow,enahorob, balewa, and all those greedy idiots some stupid Nigerians call "heroes" . put an end to white rule. Nigeria for don be like Europe today.just imagine say white rule no come about 150 years ago, nigeria for be one big poultry or piggery.all solid infrastructure today, was done by whites when no oil dey.all infrastructure degenerated after we gained independence of seil deceit

This is not true. It's sad many Nigerians believe this. Colonialists only built infrastructure that'd benefit them.
It was the imperialists who divied out other nations as price, took hundreds of millions as slaves and extracted much more in resources. There was no tangible technological transfer. Even today, there's little or no technological transfer between African nations and former colonial ones. Aid doesn't count.

Thinking you're less would only keep you down. India was also colonised but they'd tell you Britain extracted so much wealth from their economy which led to the death of millions. China suffered a similar fate when Britain forced their populace to get addicted to drugs so as to sell them stuff. Even Ireland would tell you how much famine they suffered in the hands of the Brits. Today, all these countries are forging ahead cos they learned that no one would develop them- they have to work hard themselves. African nations would have to learn same too

LordLicifer:
trend downwards because of one nigerian car wash owner. Dey play.

Not one car wash owner. Such uprisings manytimes point towards deep seated issues and a disenchanted populace looking for easy targets to blame.

Many examples of this abound.
Did Nigeria get better after the Ghana-must-go saga?

Hate is a monster.

It'd not surprise me that the South African economy continues to trend downwards after this

Cant our engineers or engineering schools build a machine to automate the whole process

234GT:
Perennial fuel scarcity was not fixed. Petrol was taken out of the reach of the common man. I live in Nigeria 247, never stepped out of Nigeria before, so please, dont argue with me.

Hehe. You sound angry

Both can be right at same time.
1. For a while, especially bolstered by the opening of Dangote's refinery, PMS has been widely available. We don't have the usual queues that were commonplace before.

2. Since deregulation, PMS is now locally deemed very expensive and also swings with world prices. Yes, some Nigerians struggle to afford it especially at required amts but it doesn't take away it's availability

Goke7:
State police is on the cards actually but I doubt it will make all states secure as some states will lack the necessary human resources and capacity. At the end only serious states can secure themselves. It’s actually down to these sub nationals(states) like you said to sit up and eradicate the menace of out of school children to fix this mess.

With a state police, states that want to invest in security have no excuse. My only worry is that governors may misuse the system. In that case, it may be better administered on a regional level with FG being involved in determining leaders and funding coming directly from the states central account.

The almajiri system is the fuel that drives all this. It's hightime states dismantle it. The FG can push them towards this as affected states wouldn't want to cos of votes.

justwise:
What an insult to Nigeria and Nigerians? This grifter wants to start another religious war using Nigeria. What an utter nonsense!!

At this point, the nation needs to fix security 'irrespective' of what it takes.

We've been able to fix perennial fuel scarcity, stabilised our exchange rate and now bringing down inflation.
Whether its state police, armed local vigilante groups, mandating education for all school kids, corroborating with nations e.t.c, we need to fix insecurity before it ruins Nigeria.

Some of the most expensive and desirable boroughs in the centre of London are given over to social housing to an unimaginable degree.
According to the 2021 census, around a quarter of all housing in Westminster, Hammersmith and Fulham, and Kensington and Chelsea is socially rented. In Camden, Lambeth and Tower Hamlets, that proportion rises to a third. And in the trendy neighbourhoods of Hackney, Islington and Southwark, an astonishing 40pc of households are social tenants.
This massive stock of housing, built on the most valuable land in the country, is permanently off the market. You cannot buy or rent any of it, no matter how hard you work, and waiting lists can stretch over decades.
https://archive.is/anOYB

Interesting article by the Telegraph.
Trying to look beyond their bias, the stats got me thinking.

While I'd want the best parts of a nation to have everyday folk inhabiting it and those needing housing not to be pushed into slums, this needs to be balanced against striving folks who fund some of these benefits. Majority of people wouldn't say no to a house in central London

I've always wondered the actual process of getting these and what the gatekeeping to prevent abuse is.

Zahra29:
Lol @ the bolded. You are clearly not following UK politics.

To borrow your analogy, Aunty K has been sweeping KS into the cupboard lately. Her performance today in the King's Speech debate was strong and hilarious.

Her personal approval rating is higher than all the other major party leaders, and no one is calling for her resignation unlike Starmer who is likely to exit the "equation or dancefloor" soon.

You and cherrypicking. You'd soon tell me Kemi has a 100% approval among her family members. She should convert her approval into better fortunes for her party.

As badly as labour has performed, the fact that the cons have continued to languish should tell you something. Their performance in elections so far has been woeful What's worse is that their underperformance is now being expected and not even making the news.

Two things can be true at same time. Starmer has had kemi locked in a cupboard. Unfortunately, Nigel Farage also locked KS in a wardrobe.
Now that Starmer may be on his way out, Kemi's focus should be on retrieving the keys to her cupboard and improve the fortunes of her party


BTW, I see you carry Kemi for head. You forget I was a fan of hers (until she joined bad gang) and have always wished her well. What exactly does she stand for? I worry about my interests not about politicians.

Hehe...When you bring firewood home expect lizards.

Controlv:
Apologies for the long epistle, but this is the shortest piece I could think of!

After paying nearly £50k in DEAD MONEY rent over the last 4 years (thanks to IHS and visa fees on graduate and work visas, which apparently does not count as contributing to the British economy), I am excited to announce that we collected the keys to our new home last week.

It still feels surreal. Not only is the house in a choice neighbourhood, it is bigger than every place we’ve ever rented here, more beautiful, and far better value for money.

Many thanks to @Semmyk for starting this thread, @justwise, @Ticha, @Solumtoya, @Santa2 for all the wisdom shared along the way, and of course, oga @Lexusgs430 for the consistent reminder that rent money is dead money.

I consider myself very lucky to have found this thread early. We keyed into LISA since 2023, and very piece of information shared here played a big role in making our mortgage journey smooth. This thread, and indeed Nairaland, is a goldmine of knowledge.

A number of people advised us not to buy because of the COS/ILR rogbodiyan flying around, but the thought of losing another £12k a year paying our landlord’s mortgage + profit was all the conviction we needed. If you still have a good time on your COS and still hesitating, my honest advice is JUST DO IT (not a financial advise). Worst case, you lose a small amount (in transaction fees) if we are all asked to leave tomorrow but it is nothing compared to years of rent disappearing into thin air. All die na die.

The journey was not smooth. We would have bought last year, but our COS arrived late and the landlord had already served a S.21 notice. That forced us into another fixed‑term tenancy (agents refused a 6‑month break clause, and we had limited options anyway). But despite all the bumps, we made it in the end.

Congrats.
Always uplifting hearing people's testimonies

Odunharry:
Skydiver01, AwesomeJ, everyone

Nice... more info on how this would benefit the financial markets and common man is needed

Goke7:
The thing shock me gan. It’s a deliberate fabricated system to actually keep the London economy going 😂 and we say it’s the third world countries or whatever they call it that are corrupt? Issorite

As for Reform am just waiting for the PM himself to finally tell us who he is instead of all this drama, he needs to come outside finally 😂

Starmer is dodging bullets.

Funny thing is that he appears to be a decent chap that tried to make some measured decisions but then, the people want radical change and change it would be.
To me, Starmer had only one major job which he struggled at- which was to guide our recent entrants to ILR.

BTW, what's the update with Mahmoods 10-30yr ILR bill? Seems suicide bombers in labour have halted her. Most of those MPs know they're going down- they might as well cause wahala.

Seems Aunty K is still missing from the dance floor. With the poor performance by Labour, one would have expected her popularity to increase but she's still not part of the equation.

Goke7:
😂 It’s just better to avoid listening to things like this cos abeg I no wan get headache!

The same rich folks are the ones saying the country has been invaded by foreigners to continue to distract from criminal activities like this! They are also the major sponsors of the reform party, na average Brits I just pity especially the ones that rely majorly on welfare from the govt

Hehe...

Seriously, without seeing this, I'd have struggled to conceptualise how well entrenched such a system is. We all know those Islands as tax havens but we never really see the British part of them. It's an eye-opener.

As per Reform, our British Trump seems locked in. The funny thing is that most reform voters hate Trump but like it when Trumpian policies are applied locally.
Some things do seem inevitable at this stage- certain lessons could always to be learned twice.

justwise:
This video is an eye opener, the UK tax system is a system within a system

What surprises me is that a well-established system like this gets very little media attention.

I've always wondered why those islands were popular. Appear they are a sophisticated state-sanctioned means of tax evasion or whitewashing global wealth. The nation has done an almost perfect job of keeping them at arms length while still reaping the benefits of their action

Like I've always said, these summits are disgraceful.

African leaders need to understand that nobody wil develop Africa for us. We need to do that ourselves. There is now a long list of individual countries organising 'summits' with Africa only to parade leaders as trophies while handing them crumbs. How would we get respected with such display?

These summits should better be done between African nations on how to improve intercontinental trade, transport and integration.

Interesting video with a surprising twist.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtCd4z1ed-c&pp=iggCQAE%3D

A good section of the UK certainly runs on tax avoidance.
I remember reading something similar on how the now defunct non-dom status was set up by the UK to fleece India and other colonies of taxing certain british folks. Imagine if it was another country had this vast set-up of tax avoidance.... it'd be constant stories of xyz

Goodenoch:
To be honest I don’t know why people are taking someone who signs their initials on Nairaland posts seriously 😄

E say na ‘TV’😂 On this same NL? come on nau.
TV nìkan kọ́, Television ni

What more proof do you need that posturing on Nairaland and writing those long-winded, pompous but essentially meaningless posts is how they derive satisfaction in life?

Arguing with him and his like will just stress you out for no reason because they clearly just love to hear themselves talk and everything you say will just be seen as an opportunity to bloviate some more.

Oddly, I didn’t bother reading the last post. Looked at how long it was and said 'not worth the time'

The funny thing is that 3-5yrs ago, if I encountered a similar post on NL, I'd be wondering to myself who this person is. But with what I know of the UK today, I'm over 90% certain that bloke lives off benefits. I can just about imagine him speak. It's the pomposity of such people that did my head in

jedisco:
Now that spambot abi mods don free me... mk I continue my mussings.


Talking about 'we groups'. Two things have always got me wondering.

First- At what point in the psyche of some first/second gen migrants do they start seeing themselves as the 'chosen group' 'better than others' or 'gatekeepers'? This is rampant even in politics today- folks whose parents came on a boat or as asylum seekers (not that any of that matters) would turn around and say 'my parents were not like them' when referring to perfectly legal residents. What's worse is that it's mainly on recent migrants dem dey get power.


It's no longer enough to be here or even be a citizen. You now have to be part of their special group of ever-increasing senselessness.
We'd soon be hearing phrases with 'we the Brits hardcore', Brit XL, Brit promax. Abi Brit-Roman, Brit-AngloSaxon, Brit-Jute e.t.c. Personally, na Brit-landlord group I dey wait. Na that one be my calling.

In all, opinions are like a**holes... everybody has one.
...

The second is like unto the first.

Is there something they put in certain British kpali that people get high when they receive it?
Always wondered... one on NL was annoyed that it was getting easier for Nigerians to migrate to the UK saying the UK has lost it's mojo. The other said we were insulting Brits for raising concerns. Now its 'we Brits'..

I just don't get it. There's definitely more to life than a kpali.
I shared here yrs back how it took me several weeks of contemplating to decide if I should stay back for my kpali after almost 4yrs in. A friend of mine who I had been encouraging to buy a place while waiting for his woke one morning and japa'd. Since then, I have seen an increasing number of colleagues contest thesame dilema. Oddly, after I saw the 'we Brits' post, I went one of my 'we groups' on FB and saw the post screenshoted below.

I usually remember my kpali when it's time to travel or for certain ID checks. What is in this kpali that makes folks see it as their greatest achievement to the extent of bragging endlessly about it? Is it underachieving in facets of life that matter? Those who have received theirs, please share let me know if I'm missing something.

[quote author=justwise post=139313819][/quote]The NL spambot is set up in an awkward manner.
The criteria upon which it bans words is quite vague and varied. For a while, I noticed words like st0cks, e.t.c related to investing can attract a ban in a weird in a non-specific manner. NL is the only fora where I see this happening.

Even if a post is automatically banned, it should be reviewed by a human and if valid, the ban extended. If not (and recurrent), the coding for the bot looked into. There should be AI spambots that get better with time. Let Seun know to look into this.

Not fingerprint. He could have just used protective floces if that was an issue.

It's expected in many gyms to clean parts of equipment you've handled after use usually with a disinfectant wipe. This is done for hygienic purposes

Now that spambot abi mods don free me... mk I continue my mussings.


Talking about 'we groups'. Two things have always got me wondering.

First- At what point in the psyche of some first/second gen migrants do they start seeing themselves as the 'chosen group' 'better than others' or 'gatekeepers'? This is rampant even in politics today- folks whose parents came on a boat or as asylum seekers (not that any of that matters) would turn around and say 'my parents were not like them' when referring to perfectly legal residents. What's worse is that it's mainly on recent migrants dem dey get power.


It's no longer enough to be here or even be a citizen. You now have to be part of their special group of ever-increasing senselessness.
We'd soon be hearing phrases with 'we the Brits hardcore', Brit XL, Brit promax. Abi Brit-Roman, Brit-AngloSaxon, Brit-Jute e.t.c. Personally, na Brit-landlord group I dey wait. Na that one be my calling.

In all, opinions are like a**holes... everybody has one.
...

TV01:
It must be hard. Living in what is a spiralling situation . Knowing what average, good or even great would look like. Knowing that it isn't even new and can't be that hard. But everyday you seem to be moving further away from what shouldn't be too difficult or take too long to achieve.

Nigeria has been your lived experience and yet you have no idea when it will get better, let alone good. You can't say with any confidence when and how it will get better or admit that it is fast deteriorating?

The cope must be painful. The strawman of "white-skin good, black skin bad" gives one a nice out and even the smugness of sounding virtuous, but it doesn't answer any questions.

No one is making the race argument, but the fact remains that societies arising out of the western cultural milieu are altogether better, generally more ordered, better administered and more advanced. The question of why that is and, how and when Nigeria will level up still remains.

If it helps, move away from Nigeria, Africa even. Indian nationals run Mag7 companies. Have high ranking operators in all the western nations where they have a significant presence. So it's clear it's nothing about them as humans beings, or their skin tone. But their home nation is still relatively backward.

"Why" is not an unreasonable question to ask? How India will level up should be in view. Especially when Indian nationals are flocking to the West. Because if those questions are not asked and Indians continue to migrate, what is that saying exactly?

On the contrary, no one said you had no history , culture or traditions. The question is "what in that culture, those traditions or the history suggest what Nigeria may have developed into in lieu of slavery, or absent colonialism.

I have heard all sorts. That left alone, Africans would have been launching satellites. The science "white" people used to advance, was stolen from "black" people. I hear it casually mentioned in black settings that black people have "better genes" or superior intellects - to nods of agreement.

Listen carefully. At the time of slavery, Africans were trading people for beads, mirrors and umbrellas. Nothing near the apex technologies or innovations the west had even then. Does that suggest an advanced technological society? Or one that would have produced automobiles before the west - if at all?

That's not true though is it? "Guesstimating" is not required. Modern developing economies can project, model, track indices, map strategies, set goals and objectives, review metrics. No guessing required sir.

"Nigeria would have hers" - when, how on what basis. Your whole spiel is assertion. Mere hope as best. Like I noted in my earlier response, you say a lot but make no cogent points. Nothing that is actionable or can be pinned down, tracked or reviewed.

Your point about "tremendous development being achieved in a single generation" makes the case against Nigeria, not for. The nations that "achieved" development of this nature, did it simply happen for them spontaneously, or out of nowhere? No roadmap, no vision, no blueprints?

All the developed nations had an upward trajectory. SA reverted to black-majority rule barely a generation ago. Is it as good today? Is it better? What is its trajectory?

I'll give you double for your money. If you admit people from less-developed nations into a functional society at scale, it will experience
rapid deterioration - whatever their colour.

Yep, if TV01 says Jedisco can't progress, and Jedisco doesn't progress, it's TV01's fault for being a naysayer. Listen to yourself.


TV

I'd respond to both your quotes at once.

Your writings are too verbose' rash and scattered for someone who considers his 'we group' to be the 'true Brits'. One thing I appreciate about the British is their use of the language. A properly educated Brit would say/write same thing you said but in few lines while still passing across the same meaning.

It must take a special form of emptiness to feel the need to always voice ones nationality on a faceless forum. One would ask- is that all there is to your life?

The problem we have in the UK today is when folks like you who are probably on benefits with little or no economic contribution have an overinflated ego thinking we're still in the days of the British empire when in actual fact that's long gone and the current generation face the prospect of having poorer outcomes than their parents.