₦airaland Forum

dmandy:
Ok God allows in some but not in all. But He does allow it abi. Continue. Didn't the bible say thou shall not kill...didn't the bible say he looked at all that He created and they were good. Why did God save the ants on that great destruction day of Noah since they were useless and should be killed. kill is kill

Lol funny dude.

Your own premise is based on assumptions.

italo:
Who told you purgatory is for unbelievers?

Your broda up there told me.
And show us where purgatory is in the bible.

italo:
So suddenly, you're making a U-turn...

Some hours ago, no believer in heaven could be permitted to know happenings on earth...because heaven is a perfect place.

Now, saints in heaven can know happenings on earth...i guess heaven is no more perfect abi?

Comprhension broda, comprehension.

I think ive answered your question.

italo:
You didn't answer my question.

Where are those people in Rev 6:10?

And please, for anything you say, show me where the Bible says it.

Okay Sir,

Actually, you guys should first of all provide scriptures for praying to saints then we can start from there.

If you even want to talk of those Martyrs, then there is a diff BTW praying to them and them Crying out in that scripture. Did they say anyone was praying to them that's why they were crying out.

That was a one time event. You mean to tell me that instead of enjoying the glories of heaven that right now they are busy crying. And look at verse eleven of that scripture.

What does that tell you. They are the souls that where recently beheaded in the tribulation and just made heaven that was why white robes were given to them.

Or have they been in heaven all this time and were naked?.

dmandy:
You skipped my question in #41. Sorry because I used the term think ok did the bible say that I am guilty of sin?

Don't understand the question.

But you need to understand Christianity is of the heart. Even if one mistakenly commits a sin that person cannot be condemned or pronounced guilty. Because God sees your heart that you ate making effort stop practising that sin.

But if you willingly go on sining after the knowledge of the truth like the apostle says then when that person dies in that sin, it's obvious the person loved the sin more than he did God. And as a result Jesus said "many will say unto me that day Lord, Lord...." Those where Christians not unbleleivers.

So if there was a purgatory and they can see the spritual realm and the hell That awaits them if they are not cleansed. Why don't they just believe and get cleansed. why will there still be some that Jesus will still say depart from Me on that day?

Or are people that stubborn that after seeing hell they will still want to go in there.

Thinking logically now.

dmandy:
Why don't you talk to God about it? That should be a good check if it bothers you. I'm sure He will clarify it. Or better still 'put Him to a test, He allows that. Mal 3:10

Now this is an issue. Not being able to divide the word of truth.

Now you said God allows us to put Him to the test.

But when Satan tempted Jesus to jump from the cliff, what was Jesus response?

My point: Yes in some areas we are allowed to test but not all. This brings us back to our discussion of how you said killing an ant is a sin but not unto death. And also that purgatory issue.

This is why one needs the Holy Spirit in interpreting scriptures.

dmandy:
My brother is painful when these men see the truth and try to cover it. He admitted that hell 'was' of two parts (suffering part and prison part) but have vanished into thin air.

They won't believe the truth, yet they won't let you rest who believe...

So enlighten us with scriptures,

What is the truth?.

italo:
@Jeromejnr,

The people in Rev 6:10 who knew that God hadn't avenged their blood on the inhabitants of the earth...

Were they also in your 'Abraham's bossom' or 'prison' or 'paradise' which you said has vanished?

Or were they in heaven, in which you said people are unaware of happenings on earth?

Or were they in another place that you are yet to manufacture?

Haha.

1. That scripture is deeper than you tink. Remember how God told Cain that his brothers blood was crying from the ground? Ponder on that. (Go through that scripture you would see they even talked of their blood).

2. We see the story of a woman with a child and a dragon (Rev 12). Now if I were to ask you you would obviously say it was Mary and the child was Jesus. (True.) But if you noticed that event came after the Seventh and final Trumpet.

So what is my point?

Because the Martyrs were seen in Rev 6 crying out vengeance doesn't mean that's what is going on In heaven right now. The saints in heaven will on the last day come to know happenings on the earth (that's when Jesus comes back). Because they will all be judged and giving rewards and also receive their new bodies. And then in turn those appointed will help in judging angels and the dead both from hell and those who were Still alive on earth at that time. (These are all in scriptures and not far fetched). Do your own studies and don't let any man deceive you with religion.

But for now, don't waste you time praying to any saint.

dmandy:
Thanks for taking time to explain all these.

Surely when Christ ascended he liberated the captives and gave gifts to all men (mind you both the rebellious) according to that passage. What gift could have been given to the rebellious. Again what was Paul still suffering for and saying he is suffering them to make up for Christ death. Did Christ death demand another attachment. How do you explain this 'Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church'? You will agree with me that something definitely is not lacking in Christ afflictions only that sometimes people choose to be rebellious.

Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them. Ps 68:18

The gifts talked about there was not for those who where been taking up to heaven but for the Christians on the earth.

This gifts where ministry gifts. Look at verse 11&12 of that Eph 4. For eqping of saint for the work the Lord has for them on the earth.

Secondly, Paul suffered or labored he said till Christ be formed in them. The goal of Christianity is for us to be Christlike. If you noticed he constantly had a problem with Christians being fleshly and rebellious.

At one point he said "I am afraid for you, lest I have labored in vain". What is lacking in Christ afflictions is:

1. Remember we are the body of Christ. We are His hands and feet.

2. One part has been fulfilled by Jesus I.e providing salvation. Now our own part (what is lacking) is our own ministry or contribution to bring souls to that salvation. We are called to suffer together with the Lord carrying our cross. And when we are involved in our own ministry there is a particular suffering to it or we call it carrying your own cross. When we as the body of Christ do that, we are fulfilling that which is lacking.

dmandy:
Yes he went to hell. I never doubted that... read my post. I believe you when you said a good part of hell (I only pointed out to you that some who hold similar view as yours don't). That good part of hell is what I chose to call purgatory (stemming from what Christ does for the people found therein... purge or cleanse (you actually acknowledged that)) My confusion is you saying that the place is now closed for business. No customers no more. Where did the bible say that?

Becuase the cleansing one needed to be able to go to heaven has already been done.

How

1. By Jesus blood.

2. Jesus told His disciples "You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you." John 15:3.

So whats the point of cleansing in "purgatory" again. That's why now it says "It is appointed that after a man dies, next is judgment" no cleansing or whatever.

Look at this scriptures:

When you ascended to the heights, you led a crowd of captives. Ps 68:18.

Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN." 9(Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth?… Eph 4:8

Captives where those in what you call purgatory.

dmandy:
Sounds to me like you believe in history... think we are on a similar page. So for you to understand somethings in the bible you need to go to history... why then do we differ? why then do we quarrel amongst ourselves.

As for you the sin that lead unto death.. you have given me example. Pray thee tell me one example of sin that leads not unto death. And I will believe you and your video. Just one.

Well I know one in real life. But I want our discussions to be based only on scriptures. (Kenneth Hagin even shared an experience of a vision the Lord gave him on that).

Cut long story short

1. Angel Gabriel speaking to Daniel on the apostacy of how many will fall away in the last days..

2. Hebrews 6:6 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

3. Those who receive the mark of the beast.

e.t.c.

dmandy:
Great makes sense to me now... Abraham's bossom is the same thing as paradise and was a part of hell which has gone into extinction. Well give me a bible proof and not tell to go and study... study with what? Convince me that the place has vanished, and like the vestigial organ lost its function of holding spirits till the final cleansing.

BTW. When Jesus said on the cross to that thief "Today you shall be with me in paradise". Well, that day, did Jesus go to heaven or hell?

If you can't answer this question then you don't even know what we have been talking about all along.

That's scripture.

dmandy:
A video... outside the bible But somebody from your camp said its the scripture or adonbelivit.

I pray thee my brother.. teach me that I may learn. I promise you that I am open to learn if you can tell me from the holy scriptures because all the while I have thought that the death in that passage meant 'condemnation in hell and live means reward in heaven. Tell me the other hidden meaning that I may know.

1. It's not a video outside the bible but on expounding the scriptures from the original greek which the NT was written in.

2. I don't really have time to go into all details here. But if you want to understand the bible, then you need to go to the original languages it was written in. (Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic)

BTW. Sin unto death is Apostasy (completing turning your back from God and choosing from the heart never to follow God but just live your life in continuous sin. It's does not apply to baby Christians. And not to get in a lot of detail here, this can only be applied to mature Christians. Paul speaking of them Said that:

1. Have tasted of the heavenly gift.
2. Have handled powers of the world to come.

It's also know as the Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Trampling on the blood of the Son of Man (now like I said before, if you didn't know much on Jewish history and their blood covenant practices, you can't understand this).

Just the same way I don't have the time to teach you on paradise. Because I knew you wouldn't understand it anyways.

dmandy:
My mistake... looks like it has gone into extinction like the dinosaurs And your bible told you that as well?

Abraham's Bosom was also known as paradise. Go do a study on it.

dmandy:
But kill is kill, if you kill an ant you have killed and gone against that commandment... but will it take you to hell? I doubt for the bible says that there were sins which lead not unto death.

Also the bible never told me anything about a 'dead saint' that is your own man made dogma. My bible says God is the God of Abraham and saints and not a God of the dead. Stop preaching what the lord did not command. I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." Matt. 22:32

My broda, by the grace of God I know the scriptures (well, as God shows me).

As for your last paragraph I know all that, that was why if you checked I put the dead in quotation marks. (I knew what I was doing ).

And as for sin leading unto death, that is a whole new teaching you need to do a research on. I wish I could send you a video on that it would help you.

dmandy:
I am learning today. Glory to God... there is indeed a good part of hell. What if I choose a name for it in order to differenciate it from bad part of hell. You see we are saying the same time but have refused to understand the same thing. The spirits were in prison.. and needed to be set free right after totally changed. Your own words @bolded.

Don't misunderstand, there was a good part. It's not there today. All of it's comforts have been taken away with the saints.

I didn't really get your last point. @bolded.

dmandy:
The bible actually said that? We should not pray to saints? What is the meaning of pray?



1.to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc., to (God or an object of worship).

2.to offer (a prayer).

3.to bring, put, etc., by praying:
to pray a soul into heaven.

4.to make earnest petition to (a person).


5.to make petition or entreaty for; crave:
She prayed his forgiveness.


6. to offer devout petition, praise, thanks, etc., to God or to an object of worship.


7.to enter into spiritual communion with God or an object of worship through prayer.

Note definition number 4. And tell me I cannot pray to you. You are saying what God did not command. That your own fleshly way now. When you confess your sins to God what are doing? Praying? ok Confess your sins to one another (Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective James 5:6) or are you from the camp that said James blasphemes and takes a position he was not giving?

You know,

The scriputure says, "Thou shalt not kill" -So how do we interpret that scripture, do we also say as a result "If we mistakenly step on an ant and killed it, that means we have committed a sin worthy of hell?

Your potential reply to that person is what I am giving to you now concerning the word "Pray".

Yes there are different meanings of pray. But we in our right sense should know what we are talking about. You only gave number 4. What of No 1. When James said pray or entreat one another, he didn't say to "dead" saints.

And when he said confess your sins he meant what Jesus said to His disciples "when you go to give your gift at the altar and remember you have ought with someone, leave your gift and reconcile with the person...."

He didn't mean anytime you sin just confess to someone and when the person says your forgiven then you can go to heaven.

dmandy:
This got me thinking? So there is another place (stage) other than heaven and hell? But it must be called Abraham's bossom or nothing else

There was.

It was called Abraham's bosom because he is called by God as the father of faith. By faith he was declared righteous by God. and all those that followed in his footsteps when they died went there. Because Jesus had not yet paid the price.

Lets just say it like this, it was all done on credit before Jesus came to pay the price.

Before anyone could go to heaven where God is to stand before Him, their Spirits had to be changed totally. And only Jesus could provide that.

That's why in scriptures, after Jesus rose from the dead, Paul said He went to preach to the spirits in prison. That place was also called prison.

Because the Bosom was in sheol or lets say the good part of hell. Thats was why that rich man in hell could look across from where he was and see Abraham.

dmandy:
I love the 'maybe' 'who knows' and most humble and innocent I don't know. So what makes you think that your own maybe is superior to that of the person who says 'maybe' they heard me.

Simple,

Because Scripture commands us to pray to God and not to saints.

But humans in their own fleshly way, just love to deviate from the norm. The person that says they hear should bring up scriptures to prove it.

dmandy:
Ok my mistake... but somebody from your camp said Abraham's bossom was heaven because according to him there is only heaven and hell and nothing more. ok scrap that. How do you understand Revelation 5:8. Who were the 24 eleders and did they know about they prayers they were offering to God?

Well, not everyone from my camp knows the scriptures so don't be surprised.

As for the elders, we know little about, there are different beings in heaven. Not just the God-head and angels (even though most are generally classified as angels) In heaven there are Seraphims, Cherubims e.t.c. The word angel means messenger. The letters written at the beginning of Revelations to the angels of the churches was actually to the pastors or head of those churches (looking at it from the greek tecahings). But the pastors were called angels.

And that scripture never said they knew what the prayers of the saints were. The prayers were in form of incense which is offered only to God.

Also that's the book of revelations, it could mean anything and not what we think. All that could be after the Saints Judgement where they would have been rewarded. So who knows, maybe those elders might be rewarded saints chosen for that position. I don't know.

dmandy:
Makes sense to me.... but what of Abraham in the story of the rich man and poor Lazarus. I guess he knew about the sufferings of the brothers of that rich man.[s]By the way self what was the offence of that guy.[/s]

1. That was Abraham's Bosom and not heaven.

2. There's a difference between remembering what you left on earth and knowing what is presently happening on earth and with your family.

I mean imagine being in heaven and knowing one of your loved ones just died and didn't make heaven. How will your reaction be? will you be sad?.

Is there sadness in heaven? or are you going to jump up and down and rejoice?.

dmandy:
They didn't hear you or they don't hear?

They don't hear. Only God does.

Heaven is a perfect place, no believer in heaven is permitted to know of sufferings and heartaches and pains that go on in the earth.

clans:
Last time I checked yes they all do...

And how did you check?

Last time I checked, they don't.

It's a good article. But the Issue is, will people still listen?

If he can rape a goat then it's no big deal for hum to marry one.

But Na wa o, He actually RAPED a goat. What is actually going on in this planet sef?

Even the writers do not know who "A" is.

At least, it's way better than getting married to a man that will later cheat on you and cause you heart aches. There are so many irresponsible men out there.

I support you Ma.

Felllaaainnniiii!!!!

Last minute goal

Can't believe Memphis missed dat

Expecting a hat trick from Memphis

Majority of Nigerian bloggers are lairs who love to deceive people by creating misleading topics and try to sell fake stories that's why they never go anywhere.

They think by doing all that they are trying to drive traffic not knowing they are actually sending people away from their sites.

SMH.

And for bloggers that think they can attract traffic with porn and sex tapes, why don't you all grow up.

It's because they don't actually have a personal relationship with God themselves and they don't know who they are in Christ.