₦airaland Forum

Jozzy4:
Show us how you arrive at that conclusion !

Common sense gotten from scriptures.

No one could enter heaven until Jesus had paid the price.

So all that died went to Sheol. Sheol is divided into two:

The place of comfort and the place of Torment. The place of comfort was later called Abraham's Bosom.

So everyone that died went to Sheol. Wether the person went to the place of torment or comfort, only God knows.

Jozzy4:
Where are those who think Adam go to heaven ? .

Adam went to Sheol.

Go do research on that.

chikweezy:
Seconded!..guys please, I dunno wia some of us get the revelation that after one dies, he/she automatically finds oneself in Heaven or Hell...this understanding is just a far cry from wat d Bible actually implies in Heb 9:27. I think its important we really as God for insight into His word so that we dont get trapped in our own understanding.

I don't get, where do they go after death?

MrPresident1:
Thank you Gatiano, only literal stars that would be falling to the earth are the satellites.

Well, according to the interpretation of the dream, Joseph's eleven brothers would bow to him, this later happened in Egypt when Joseph had become prime minister and his brothers came to him seeking food, God had promoted him, and they had no choice but to bow to him.

Do you have any esoteric connection to make of this? Share please.

So how did you come about that the seats that will fall will be the satellites.

If satellites actually fall there won't be any much harm they don't really create a massive impact.

And how many satellites do we even have up there in space?.

italo:
I would pray to you if I were sure you were a Christian, but I don't think you are.

Then pray to the nearest Christian you know to provide for you grace to live above sin na.

chikweezy:
Please how can these saints hear our prayers...it kinda sounds ridiculous!..#justsayin

That is what I've been trying to get them to prove for me since ysday o.

All they say is someone somewhere said....

And twist scriptures.

italo:
1. I didn't turn anything. I gave you the verse as St. Paul wrote it. Or you don't believe the Bible anymore?

2. Here are some Church Fathers who spoke about Marian intercession:


"For as Eve was seduced by the word of an angel to flee from God, having rebelled against His Word, so Mary by the word of an angel received the glad tidings that she would bear God by obeying his Word. The former was seduced to disobey God, but the latter was persuaded to obey God, so that the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. As the human race was subjected to death through [the act of] a virgin, so it was saved by a virgin." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:19,1 (A.D. 180).

"Under your mercy we take refuge, O Mother of God. Do not reject our supplications in necessity, but deliver us from danger,[O you] alone pure and alone blessed." Sub Tuum Praesidium, From Rylands Papyrus, Egypt (3rd century).

"Let, then, the life of Mary be as it were virginity itself, set forth in a likeness, from which, as from a mirror, the appearance of chastity and the form of virtue is reflected.... Nor would I hesitate to admit you to the altars of God, whose souls I would without hesitation call altars, on which Christ is daily offered for the redemption of the body. For if the virgin's body be a temple of God, what is her soul, which, the ashes, as it were, of the body being shaken off, once more uncovered by the hand of the Eternal Priest, exhales the vapor of the divine fire. Blessed virgins, who emit a fragrance through divine grace as gardens do through flowers, temples through religion, altars through the priest." Ambrose, On Virginity II:6,18 (A.D. 378).

"Recalling these and other circumstances and imploring the Virgin Mary to bring assistance, since she, too, was a virgin and had been in danger, she entrusted herself to the remedy of fasting and sleeping on the ground." Gregory of Nazianzen, Oration 24:11 (A.D. 379).

"For it is said that he [Gregory the Wonderworker] heard the one who had appeared in womanly form exhorting John the Evangelist to explain to the young man the mystery of the true faith. John, in his turn, declared that he was completely willing to please the Mother of the Lord even in this matter and this was the one thing closest to his heart. And so the discussion coming to a close, and after they had made it quite clear and precise for him, the two disappeared from his sight." Gregory of Nyssa, On Gregory the WonderWorker (A.D. 380).

3. Marian intercession is directed to and subject to God.

4. Mary can handle all the prayers because she is now like God, as the Bible says.

5. Can you now admit that the Bible never said Saints in heaven can't hear prayers? Or show me where it says so.

Oga! Where did they get their own revelation from that they can pray to Mary?

Anyone can wake up one day and just say anything. Provide documents from apostles of Jesus or disciples of the apostles of Jesus.

Or ppl that followed the great commission (healing the sick, raising the dead e.t.c) and not pointless religious services.

Even Greek scholars will tell you after Jesus was born Mary had other children through Joseph. So I don't know what you are saying.

The bible was not written in Latin but Greek and Hebrew.

italo:
The bible tells me that satan is my adversary...so I don't pray to him.

Moreover, I'm not the one who believes that everything in Christianity must be explicitly stated in the bible, that's you and your like. So you have no business asking me that.

Yes that's why someone in your camp can wake up tomorrow and say that he just discovered that you can also pray and be devoted to the the sky and you will fall for it.

SMH.

italo:
Even the Bible you hold on to is from Catholic tradition.

The Catholic Church compiled and canonized it in the fourth century...

Just as it did its other doctrines.

Judas too was a disciple of Jesus. He healed the sick, preached the word and casted out demons.

Demas who was Paul's partner also was used by God. But what happened?

They later went out of the Way.

So that the Catholics were used by God to put the bible together does not mean they are right in all they do. it does not mean they have not gone out into strange doctrines in some areas.

Better watch watch you believe.

italo:
Rev 6:10 is already proof that Saints in heaven can pray to God to inflict vengeance on the people on earth. No?

Even if what you said is true, did they say "italo prayed to to us o Lord help please avenge him?"

And besides all of them where martyrs, was Mary a Martyr?.

italo:
So you go to your sinful pastor (who might be heading for hell) to heal you...

...but when we go to Mary in heaven to pray for us, you suddenly throw tantrums...

Read what I told your fellow. I don't go to nobodody for nothing. I have my own faith for healing.

So its Mary that's in heaven that will cone down and heal you? SMH.

dmandy:
The thing Jeromejnr is,

I am not forcing you to pray to Mary or your pastor.... but accept that we are one body of Christ. You dont belong to Paul and I to Appollos no. You chose not to...fine. Don't mark me off as being against the scriptures as clearly God allows me to pray for others and for others to pray for me. As we have seen in the scriptures that it is a commandment that we should take her as our mother and take her home. You can leave her... I won't force you. But I heeded that command.

Thanks and God bless you... If you still think I err pray to God to confirm if I truely do. Then come back to tell me.

Good night and have a sound night rest.

BTW Olaadegbu, thanks for asking? She hears my prayers and direct them to the appropriate chambers which is the one and only way Jesus (whom she bore and who saved her).

Peace!!!

So what if I just prayed and God told me you are wrong? How will you know if I heard from God or not? Because I know you will still find something else to say.

Lol

But anyways, Shalom.

dmandy:
Well if he is in the bible the least you can do is show me.. that I may believe. My ant issue.... God did not create them for you to be killing them ruthlessly unless you want to eat them or they pose a danger. If God did not wipe them with the flood...why murder them in cold blood for no reason.

I speak in tongues... yes.

That's good. So why do you speak in toungues?

dmandy:
Did God command you not to go to your pastor? Or did you choose to limit yourself..that is the problem when you limit yourself you want others to join you by fire by force nnah nawa o.

They bible say pray for one another.. if you don't pray for somebody i don't think you have committed a sin but God knows anyway... but nobody forced you not to. It is your choice. If you don't want anybody to pray for you accept it as your choice. And don't see anyone who does as commit crime against heaven and earth. God bless you for keeping it civil

I still want proof tho. On saints in heaven interceeding.

dmandy:
And there you judge... don't. If pope tells me to pray to Mohammed, I won't okay because I don't know him. Nothing of him is written in the bible. But I think he existed like all of us...if someone believes he is a prophet of God, why will I fight? Are there no prophets of God in Nigeria today nothing of whom was written in the bible. I won't judge. I only know myself and those whom the bible said worked with God and were called by God.

Well as for the killing issue... I think you are the one who is adding to the word of God. The bible says though shall not kill.... and to kill is to take away life? Does ant have life? Was it created by God? Did you give it the life you take away?

You went back there because you want me to leave Mary to rejoice in heaven and I said no where she is I will be...her people will be my people and her God will be my God.

Wonders shall never end. How did you even know Mohammed is not mentioned in the scriptures.

You see the circle goes round.

This your ant issue get as e be. Lol.

Okay let's leave dat side. Do you speak in tongues?

dmandy:
Your cup of tea.. I do go to my pastor to pray for me to God... I call my mother at home on phone to pray for me. I believe God will answer them as well.

You can forget going to your pastor to anoint you pray to God and anoint yourself... I bet you if you believe you will get your annointing.

It is not against the scripture, you chose not to. And you want me to choose the same before you can agree with me that we are worship the same one and true God who gave us Jesus Christ. No na.

I don't even go to a pastor for any of those because I do them myself. I have my own faith.
Stay away from doctrines of men my friend, and don't be deceived.

After all this talk, none of you has even provided a scripture to back up ur claim.

dmandy:
Well to you Mary is not righteous and her prayer does not avail anything... but the bible teaches otherwise. She was made righteous by grace.... and she explains my soul magnifies the lord my saviour. And do you think that soul has stopped magnifying the lord? Unless you believe that souls die.

So your own soul is not magnifying the Lord?

Abeg free Mary alone o. She is busy enjoying heaven.

dmandy:
Praying to Mary and the saints is in the scriptures... Paul admonished us to pray for one another right? I can pray (beg) my pastor to pray for me, as member of the body of Christ. If you believe that the saints in heaven prays that shouldn't be a problem (they are among the one another) we are one body of Christ (unless you want to count the saints in heaven out of the body of Christ which is not scriptural). Remember the 24 elders bowing and saints in heaven taking our prayers in form of incense to God. It is in the bible its not any vague tradition or whatever.

Be guided.

So how do you want me to take you seriously when you just said killing an ant is a sin.

I understand it is hard to accept change. But deep down look into your heart, you know you just misconstrued those scriptures. And they don't mean what you said they mean.

Its not scripture, you just believe it because you heard it right from when you were young. So if the Pope wakes up tomorrow and says you can pry to Mohammed, that is a word from a mouth right and you must obey.

I mean because of the articles. I see nowadays of the Pope or cardinal saying some funny tins.

dmandy:
I never made mention of any traditions... all I have said to you I say from the scriptures which is the word of God.

What you call other traditions are word of God taught by word of mouth and not a magical wand that stems from nowhere. Listen to what St. paul said... So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter. 2Thess 2:15.

So they are the sacred scriptures taught by word of mouth. Don't force your own words on me. I never said anything about tradition.

Okay,

So the teaching by word of mouth on praying to Mary who said it?

Was it Paul, or John or one of your Popes?

dmandy:
You know that you can go to God direct (which of course through Jesus), why do you ask your pastor to pray for you about something? The prayer of the righteous availeth much and if she is heaven with Jesus who save her I can ask her to help me in the prayers....just like I can ask you or my pastor. You see...its all scriptural.

BTW I don't go to my pastor to pray to God for me.

There's diff BTW meeting ur pastor or elders to anoint you with oil for healing and praying to God for maybe a car or something.

dmandy:
The prayer of the righteous availeth much and if she is heaven with Jesus who save her I can ask her to help me in the prayers....just like I can ask you or my pastor. You see...its all scriptural.

Nothing scriptural about that.

It didn't say the prayer of a righteous man will avail more if we pray to Mary to help us. I still need where the dogma was found.

dmandy:
I don't get it that God answered my prayer is not sticking to your scriptures.... I should provide the tradition where it was taught? I have never mentioned tradition to you since I started discussing with you. ok. Neither have i mentioned dogma.

All I do is based on the scriptures which is the word of God made flesh (via the womb) of the blessed mother. Jesus on the cross said to the disciple whom He loved (does He love you? Do you think you are his disciple?) son(are you one), behold your mother( Mary) and he took her home. Won't you take her home? Will you leave her there... well if you won't and somebody else does abeg no jealous.

No tradition... for indeed that which you call tradition is the scriptures handed down by words of mouth. It didn't just evolve, its all in the bible...only if you read with open mind.

Still didn't answer what I asked.

I was talking about praying to Mary and not God answering your prayers.

You said before you Catholics believe in other traditions. So I want to know where those traditions are? Where are the written? Where did you get them from?. That's all.

dmandy:
God did

Since God did. Why did you pray to Mary, why didn't you just pray to God?.

Or you were not sure God will answer you, so you asked Mary to help you beg God before He now decided to answer?.

dmandy:
God did

Okay so let me help you small.

Since you believe in not sticking to the scriptures. Why don't you provide the dogma or tradition where it was taught that we could pray to Mary.

I am sure right now you just realised you never even knew where the tradition came from in the first place. You just grew up in that environment so because of that you just believe it.

dmandy:
Your words... 'how do we know?' Means you can't tell and according to you, it could be coincidence but why do you ultimately rule out the other possibility that may not be? So 'we' don't know.. it could be and it could not be. No be so? remember not to be jealous oh....

So you think it must be lame seeing or blind working before it can be termed miracle. Ewooo looks like thjats your killer punch

God answers all my prayers, I can't deny that. I only said sometimes it comes in the specifications and details with which you asked. Have you not experienced anything like that? At that time did you believe it was a coincidence.

So your point is Mary answered your prayer?

We are waiting.

0micheal735:
Because those in Heaven (i.e. the Saints) are
outside of time, there is no past or present by
their perception--only one great present. We
can't
understand why this is because we are mortal
beings and bound by the limits of time.
The saints are not believed to be omniscient as
God is, however we believe it is by God's will that
the saints be allowed to hear our prayers. We see
in Scripture references to prayer of the saints,
most notably Revelation 5:8

Well, even though I know that's not what that scripture meant. Has Mary in any way answered your prayers?

dmandy:
Back to what Mary did for me... follow me and thank God for the marvelous miracles He has done for me through the intersession of His servant Mary the Mother of my savior. Testimonies abound and mind you I seek her intersession eveyday. Please don't be jealous if don't have that privilege. Have you ever asked for something in the most precise and specific manner... as in to the details and received such... the joy comes slowly for at first you will be amazed and filled with awe.

OK just last two weeks, I was to defend my thesis presicely on the 5th of August... lol and behold my office sent me out for a week's job and I was to miss the defense. No two ways (and mind you I rather miss and keep my job). I prayed to God and asked Mary to support me in the prayer and behold for whatever reason.. the defence was shifted for one month just like I asked.

I shed tears...this was on the 5th of this month.

Do you think God answered my prayer? If he did, do you think I prayed amiss? This is just one. I can go on and on. Don't be jealous... thank God for me.

Hehehe. So how do we know that's not a coincidence. I mean other religions will tell u they prayed and sometimes get an answer.

We want to see miracles, blind seeing, deaf hearing, lame walking e.t.c. if that's not happening then....

BTW. I get my prayers answered all the time not sometimes but all the time. And it was to the Father through Jesus alone.

dmandy:
Why do you think so? Have you thrown your killer punch yet?

Nope.

[quote author=dmandy post=37199713][/quote]The thread.

0micheal735:
We don't worship mary rather we honor her like the saints in the bible. We are only calling our mother mary to intercede and pray for us. It seems most of us here do not know the meaning of PRAYER..prayer do not mean worship,That's where most of us who are not catholic couldn't understand Why is that the penticostals go to there pastors to pray for them Is your pastor greater than the mother of God it is written in the bible that all ages shall call her blessed....to mai realization its only the catholic that is honoring her. Every part of the bible is important we all knows that, why don't we preach about the works of the saint so we can also learn from them....mai brothers and sisters let's try and remove the spirit of sentiment from our religion

Okay, so with the millions of Christians in the world all praying to Mary at the same time, how is she supposed to handle all that request?

Is she Omniscient? Is she also Omnipresent? Don't you tink you are disturbing her from enjoying her treasures in heaven?

dmandy:
Thank God at least I made you happy. Show some gratitude mehn....

Hehe. At least.

Your second ran away.