₦airaland Forum

Dnaz: 1st get a proper IQ den we can talk abt history cos obviously u don't understand d simple things u read

And I suppose you understand? You have not really up any intelligent argument since this thread started. You are just insultive and can't even facts in the bible or history books to defend ur Catholic faith. U see you knw nothing abt the church! Olodo!

Dnaz: 1st it was dat d catholic church murdered peter den it was dat constantine founded d catholic church. By ur assertion u mean dat d church murdered peter even before it was founded by constantine. Confused and obsessed fellow

Guy u are the confuse person. U don't even knw the history of ur church what a shame! Abeg get urself inform b4 and stop putting emotions in the way of history! Christ will never start a church that worship IDOLS in the name of statues. God will open ur eyes.

Ogamgil: @Johnnie. In the 2nd Empero Nero hated christians and caused a lot of blood shed he crucified peter upsidedown. Jesus predicted the death of peter in john 21:15-19. "thruly i say to you that when ur old u will stretch out ur hands and another wil bind you and take u wher u dont want to go". Peter was buried in rome. years later after the death of peter, from 4th century, Constantin who was the roman empero from 306 to 337 and was also the first empero to accept christianity, he then decided honor peter and built a large basillica no his grave. My brother by thats the professy has been fulfilled when jesus told peter u are a rock and on this rock il build my church. Mathew 16. Even when peter fled rome to avoid execution, Jesus came to him in a dream which made him to go back to rome and accept his martyrdom dere along with paul who was beheaded cus the professy must be fulfiled.
You talk about the seven churches in revelation. And u said that rome was not mentioned let me ask u is Nigeria mentiond in the bible but some churches has its origin from nigeria.
Catholic means universal. The catholic church was founded right from christ even before the bassilica was built. And its the only church that can claim to have been founded by christ personaly. Every other churches trace its lineage back to a mere human person such as Martin luther or John wesley. But d catholic can trace its lineage back to Jesus Christ who appointed st Peter as the first Pope. The line of pope continued unbroken for almost 2000 years. Please its beter to follow the faith that has its origin dated back to christ. Than folow this new generational churchs. We hav many churchs in nigeria 2day and coruptn and crime is more in dis generation. U alowed ur self 2 be deceived by people from other churchs. Instead of u 2 stand by what u believe in. Its at ur best intrest to change and practise the only true religion. I strongly beleive in d Catholic faith.

Yes I have pushed you to read the history of ur church, bt u twistd ur conclusion Jesus never founded the Catholic Church! Did you read that from ur information source? Come on who ordaind Peter a pope? Pope is not even in the bible, my dear leave story jo. When Jesus said I will build my church he was nt saying he would build it on Peter's head or corpse! It is a spiritual statement...(that is another kettle of fish). My conclusion is that ur eyes of understanding be enlighten to see the way back to Christ!

Dnaz: U r a demented fellow what concerns d catholic church with emperor nero?. U can blab all you want it won't change d fact dat d catholic church remains supreme over all churches.u talk abt denomination. B4 luther dere was only one universal church,the church christ himself founded.dere was no denominations in christainity. Denominations only started with Luther and henry VIII.I pity u,ur obsession with anti catholicism will blind u to hell. May mary mother of God pray 4 ur soul dat u may see d truth amen

Hahaha...I laugh at your ignorance! Maybe you don't know please read history and see that it was Emperor Constantine who founded Roman Catholic...please I have written extensively on that already go and read it! And tell me which bible records it that Catholic church was founded by Christ? Or where is it written that not believing in Catholic lies and heresies will take one to hell? I laugh hahaha...

Dnaz: If not that u r blind and so obsessed with anti catholicism u wuld know dat even archaelogist have found evidence of peters bones @ d vatican hill.can't u see ur mindset, how did d catholics kill peter. Anoda twisted version of ur history. I laff in swahili

I said it before you read SHITSTORY and found out all these crappy rubbish. So you don't know that the Roman Emperor Nero was responsible for the death of Peter, Paul and many Christians? You see shallow mind get informed...I laugh at your ignorance and blindness. If only you know what I knw about d Catholic church u'll throw away your rosary. God help you.

Chukwdi you are here still on this purgatory thing? Guy rest it purgatory does not exist...you know we have discussd this in the other topic (Why are youths leaving the Catholic Church) which you are here quoting my name. And every anti-purgatory person who have commentd here, kudos! Pastor A1 please leave the conversation you are no help...you are nt even taking any stand! Chukwudi and all Catholics here read your bible, give your life to Christ and avoid hell. Jesus gave us two ways: Broad way which lead to hell and narrow way which leads to life eternal!
I have renounced Catholicsm and never will I go back there! Jesus is Lord.

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Dnaz: Well dis is what I had always expected, another twist of history to suit our claim when d truth is staring at us in d face. U ve interpreted christ to say he didn't mean church per say but grp of believers which to me is anoda twist of d bible. But y did he have to single out peter as d rock which he wuld build his church on. If d church is a grp of believers as u claim den he shuld have built his church ob deir hearts he didn't den need peter to b his rock.I believe christ said dat cos he knew d controversies dat wuld arise abt churches in d years to cme. U can twist d bible anyhow u want but d truth will forever be dere looking @ u. D bible confered d leadership of d church on saint peter d same man whose bones lie in d foundation of st peters basilica.u knw d truth but d devil has blinded u n u ll never believe. As 4 ? n d priviledged ones who still uphold d catholic faith. Nothin is more clear. The catholic church remains d church of christ. Anybody who fails to believe it,let him be anathema

Oga where did you read your history? The book of shistory? Guy you are so blind wt Catholicsm, building the church on Peter doesn't mean laying his bones in Rome my God that is cultism and Roman pagan belief, you see Catholics are responsible for spreading heresis! After killing Peter they nw made him a Pope? What kind of twisted history is that? Catholics are blind and it will take the Holy Spirit to open their eyes. The Apostles spread the gospel of Christ not build churches! Read read read and stop believing lies! I have given my own history young man give your own version if you have any.

Dnaz: So what happened to d church christ founded? If its not d catholic church, den which church is it? Or has it been obliterated off d face of d earth? If so, den christ must b lying wen he said d gates of hell shall not overpower his church. I need answers where is d church christ founded? I dnt mean churches but a single church.since christ obviously didn't mean to found more dan one church. Answers pls

Young man Christ talked about CHURCH and the Apostles followed suit but afterwards people founded denominations! The Church Christ referred to is not institutions like we have it today but group of believers! There were no Churches by name but group of believers who gather to worship, but as time goes by people began teaching heresy which was obvious in Paul's several letters in the bible, these caused divisions and people having different interpretations and believe. However in all these Christianity (The Church) survived even wt all d killings by d Romans and all. Read history my guy. Note also that the seven churches in John's Revelation were nt named as RCM, Methodist or Pentecostal...they are churches where believers gather. However if there is suppose to be a physical church by name don't you think such should be in Jerusalem or Bethlehem or even Nazareth Jesus came from and his apostles. Why Rome or Romans? Hijackers! Did I answer your question Dnaz? If not get your bible opened to Acts and Revelations then get a good unbiased history book and read Christian history! God help you.

Ogamgil: My brother now i knw wer ur problem is 4m. U allowed ur self 2 be brain washed. Christianity suffered a lot of pesecution b4 it later succeded. No body is disputing d fact dat peter or other apostles of Christ were married. Peter left his family and follwed christ as wel as others. If i may ask what church is d first church on earth? Becus 4m history catholic was d first b4 anglican broke out. U just turned d history upside down. I wonder what church u ar going 2.

Now I know where your problem is, you are myopic and have been brain-washed to believe everything you are told. This is not religion I am talking about, I am talking about HISTORY! Get a very good unbiased history book and read Christian History. The first churches were not denominations so Catholic church is nt even an issue. Can you remember the seven churches in Revelations non of them is a Roman Catholic or located in Rome. The earliest Christians are Israelites, knw that the Romans hijack Christianity from them after Emperor Constantine became a Christian later whn he so came in (read my earlier post) that heresies caused the churches to split into divers groups...the era of Martin Luther and co. So don't lay claim on Christianity as if the Roman Catholics started it, from record Romans were virtually pagans and idolaters which they brought into the church to pollute the sanctuary wt statues, images, shrines etc! I don't preach church by name I can tell you I am a pentecostal Christian! Get born-again today!! God will open ur eyes and that of many Catholics to see the light like many Reverend Father did and have helped draw many souls out of destruction, the bible says there is a way that seemeth right to a man but the end thereof is destruction!!! Shalom.

Dnaz: Make una leave us, we like our church like dat, if na brainwashing dem d brainwash us, we ask 4 more brainwashin.if e d pain u,hug transformer. Holy mary mother of God The one and only THEOTOKOS keep praying 4 dem

Ha ha ha...may the scales in ur eyes fall off in Jesus name.

Ogamgil: if i may ask who brain washed us. 4 me i dont knw cus i was born into a catholia family. Ok if u trace d origin of roman catholic it stated 4m d apostles when jesus said on u i build my church and no gate of hell wil prevail against it. No mater what u say about d faith u cant stop people from practisn what dey belivn in. U said u wer a former catholic and u talk bad about it God help u is what il tel u.

My dear you are made to believe many things as a Catholic, who told you Catholic church was the first church? Get yourself a real copy of Christian History. Those are the things I was talking about, we believe whatever we were told without checking the truth in them. Now do you recall that it was the Romans that killed Jesus by the help of the Jews? It was these same Romans that persecuted the Christians on a large scale in the hand of Emperor Nero and killed the Apostle Peter and Paul. This he continue for many years. The Romans'll put christians in arenas in Rome like gladiators to be killed by lions and other canivores because of their refusal to worship the Roman Emperor which was treasonous and punishable by execution. The persecution of the christians ended in 313AD under the reign of Constantine the Great! Constantine who became a christian by his mother after winning the war became emperor, he rebuilt Rome and have churches built within its walls. He became baptised on his deathbed. He played an active role in the leadership of the Church acting as judge at times. He issue the Nicene Creed which among other things professed a belief in "One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church." After his death his son Julian the Apostate became emperor, but he renounced Christianity and embraced paganism reopend the pagan temples and modified them to resemble Christian traditions. Christianity became the Roman State Religion in February 27, 380. After which the Roman Catholic church was establishd during the period. The Catholic Church came from a long line of history though. However, to cut the very long story short, Peter was not the founder of any visible church succession. Christianity has Jewish decent, Jesus and his disciples were Jews! Peter was never a Pope he died before the Catholic Church emerged in the hands of the Romans. Infact the bible records it that he was married (Matt 9:14, Luke 5:33), then if being married would he establish an institution forbidding others from marrying? Read the Acts of The Apostles to see historical issues relating wt the start of Christianity...they were first called Christians in Antioch. Also see Revelations for the letters to the seven churches Rome is not even mentioned there! Please get your facts right! Catholic Church is not the first church bt the most establisd institution in history due to the Roman tradition of empire establishment. I rest my case.

Rich4god: Its now i knw that you are not out for the truth. I think you are here for something else. Well the fact remains, if you a lapsed parishioner during your time as a catholic, good for you. Allow us who fully know what it takes to be a catholic enjoy our worship. Bottom line is >>> Church doesn't lead to heaven...

My guy d truth? You can't even spell the truth! My view still remains, YOUR CHURCH points you the way to heaven or hell! How? By their teaching of d word of God, doctrines based on d word of God, constant preaching for members to depart frm SIN....etc.
Finally if your church will not take you to heaven then why bother attending? You could as well stay at home! You see you don't even know the essence of attending a church.
God help you.

Ogamgil: ....U talk as if u see nothing gud in the catholic church. Hav u head of this sayn " soldier go soldier come barrak must remain" u wer formerly a catholic as u claim, and uve left "SO WHAT" as people ar living more are entering. The tin is what we catholics belive in works 4 us. If u hav a problem with it hug transformer ul see ul get better. I WAS born a catholic brought up a catholic and by Gods grace die as a catholic.

My dear you see, being a Catholic for me is an experience I would live to share....we follow religion blindly without recourse to question some stuffs or research yourself, you just obey the without know the end. Worshipping idols is against God but you do it without ask questions, Child baptism, continous living in sin and going to confess with conscious effort to run away from sin....man Catholic are the most "brain-washed Christians" ever! \
Quote me anywhere please!!

chukwudi44: 189. Johnnie ZM(m): Quote Post

chukwudi44: @JohnieZM

I can see how vast u re.Why don't you interpret those Bible passages I pasted 2 refute ur purgatory assertions.You will only make one claim and when confronted wit d truth will jump 2 another ridiculous assertion.

@Richgod

It is obvious this guy is just being miscievious.How on earth can someone who claimed to have been a devoted catholic claim that catholics don't read bible @ mass what fallacy!!!

When confronted with refutals he changed it to reading selected passages only and finally he is now into the three year bible study plan.

He quoted Jeremiah where the isrealites worshipped the "queen of heaven" as claim that catholics worship Mary.This is d height of stupidity.

The Jeremiah passage occured centuries either Mary ot the RCC existed and has absolutely nothing 2 do with them


Guy none of ur claim is true....baseless...in time I will answer you, just that I'm kinda busy but before evening expect my reply. You are quoting me wrong....not reading the bible like I said in not to be taken litrarily.....deep reading. Come on you guys read the bible like story book!!!!! Be realistic!



So when bible passage interpretation does not tally with yours it now becomes shallow?

U claim to read up the entire bible on daily basis and still manage to exert deep reading of the bible!!!

Guy give tell me what is bothering you, is it the fact that all your belief system negates the bible or is it that you are angry that I'm kicking against all what you believe in which I use to believe before but Glory to God who brought me out of darkness into His marvellous light! Alleluyah!!!!!!!!!


And @Ogamjil thanks for using my post....

Guy you are confused! Go and read my comment on Mary and stop sounding like a broken record!

Rich4god: Really... were you expecting me to answer that your question and wait, when did i tell you or form that am a bible scholar. That was how you concluded that Chukwudi44 insulted you by writing "FYI" in his post... SMH. Its now i know that you are not out for the truth. Peace be with you.

Running away is a very good defencive mechanism when you are defeated! Read his comment and why didn't he answer me when I asked him? I was once like you always looking for means of defending my Catholic beliefs with baseless arguments!

chukwudi44: @JohnieZM

I can see how vast u re.Why don't you interpret those Bible passages I pasted 2 refute ur purgatory assertions.You will only make one claim and when confronted wit d truth will jump 2 another ridiculous assertion.

@Richgod

It is obvious this guy is just being miscievious.How on earth can someone who claimed to have been a devoted catholic claim that catholics don't read bible @ mass what fallacy!!!

When confronted with refutals he changed it to reading selected passages only and finally he is now into the three year bible study plan.

He quoted Jeremiah where the isrealites worshipped the "queen of heaven" as claim that catholics worship Mary.This is d height of stupidity.

The Jeremiah passage occured centuries either Mary ot the RCC existed and has absolutely nothing 2 do with them

Guy none of ur claim is true....baseless...in time I will answer you, just that I'm kinda busy but before evening expect my reply. You are quoting me wrong....not reading the bible like I said in not to be taken litrarily.....deep reading. Come on you guys read the bible like story book!!!!! Be realistic!

[quote author=chukwudi44][/quote]Speaking of who ran out of ideas, you have not written half of what I wrote and you are saying I'm out of ideas......my friend I have a lot to tell you.....I only have limited time! I can write a book on my belief..... I don't read bible that speaks only on prosperity....I read it from precept unto precept, line unto line, a little here and a little there to keep me equipped! Why do you think I'm so vast and ready to fire back......

Rich4god: Hmmm... Kant stop laughing. Is it because of the 3 year plan that makes you think we dont read the bible, now i knw ur problem.

I'm rolling on the floor myself....you can't even tell me you read you bible today....ahhahaah ........Trying to form Bible Scholar! Do you know how many Reverend Fathers have given their lives to Christ? The first one started the First Charismatic Movement...before the church hijacked and corrupt it....(That is the topic for another day)....I have names of the Reverend Fathers and I'm ready to reveal them to you. Guy I have bullets in my guns! I don't fire blanks!

Cheers!

[quote author=Sisi_Kill]It's KILL oh. . .KILL. I don't joke with my KILLS abeg!!

Dude, it takes me but two seconds to send what I wanna send and it is usally because something compels me to do so in that moment. I don't wanna get all spiritually rahrahrah on you but I feel there is a reason why I needed to send that particular message to that particular someone at that particular time.

Again, not everyone is easily distracted, not everyone sees these gadgets as status symbols, not everyone is moved by outward appearances, that you carry 4 freshly minted Bibles and scores of papers for bible study does not mean you are more spiritual than anyone else. People find their own ways to do things because it is convenient for them, as long as they are not hurting anyone in the process. . .let them be, I say!!!!

Live and Let's Live...Dude, Live and Let's Live!!!!


Gosh there are soooo many other, more interesting things we could be debating than this. For instance, did you read the report on a study that said Born Agains are more likely to suffer Hippocampal Atrophy? Now that is a topic I would love to sink my teeth into. There's gotta be some truth to it, yes? I mean you can clearly see the evidence on this thread.

What say you and I get that topic going? [/quote]Go ahead SISI EKO (Taunting you)

Anyway I was just expressing how I feel, I'm not impossing anything on anybody....I think I am entitle to my opinion.

Sisi....waiting for you new topic. Post away!

Rich4god: You are speaking as an insider that doesnt knw the teaching of the church. 1st, you started by generalizing that catholics dont read the Bible where as it is you as an individual who dont read yours. Queen of heaven ke Demonic goddess ni... Peace be with you.

Oga you see you don't know the bible....3 year plan? Have you ever heard of 1 year plan? Forget it! Did you even read your bible today?

Anyway for your information the demon behind your Mary Worship is the Queen of Heaven portrayed in Jeremaih 44:19-20

19 The women added, “When we burned incense to the Queen of Heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did not our husbands know that we were making cakes impressed with her image and pouring out drink offerings to her?”

20 Then Jeremiah said to all the people, both men and women, who were answering him, 21 “Did not the LORD remember and call to mind the incense burned in the towns of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem by you and your ancestors, your kings and your officials and the people of the land? 22 When the LORD could no longer endure your wicked actions and the detestable things you did, your land became a curse and a desolate waste without inhabitants, as it is today. 23 Because you have burned incense and have sinned against the LORD and have not obeyed him or followed his law or his decrees or his stipulations, this disaster has come upon you, as you now see.”

You guys are not really worshipping Mary you are worshipping the demon called the Queen of heaven! Read up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_heaven_(antiquity)

[quote author=Sisi_Kill]I find it truly amusing that the same church members who throw themselves to the floor praising God for their churches acquiring private jets, airlines and building the biggest auditoriums because it shows how financially blessed their church is, are the same people claiming the moral ground on this phone usage.

You know I could easily rephrase the part of your post your in bold in response to people who are defending the Churches and their private jet acquiring mission.


My guy you are free to defend your pastors for owning airlines but ask yourself are they doing it to to show others that they have money to buy Jets? Christianity is being turned to a something else.....we are getting too familiar with God. Have you ever seen an Imam owning Jets, Limousines, Hummers? What happened to the good old fashion Toyota Camrys, Honda Civic and flying commercial??

Lmao!!!

Okay, jokes aside. . .You people forget that it is not everyone who sees these gadgets as status symbols. For some of us they are just that....Gadgets. Gadgets that make things easier and convenient. . .I'm in church in Timbuktu, I take notes and highlight Bible verses on my phone and immediately send it to somebody in Kotangora, who can send it to someone else. . .before you know it, someone in the far flung city of Melbourne has gotten the same message. . .all while I am still in Church, if that doesn't epitomize spreading the gospel, I don't know what does (Now, Now, no need for ovation, I'm just doing my part to spread the Lord's work )

I say, instead of debating on whether or not using phone as bible is a sin, I think the real topic should be why we are so materialistic. Why do we look to stupid things like phones, ipad etc as the measure of a person's status. . .now THAT, my friend is the real issue here.

The problem is not with those things. . .they are after all mere objects, the problem is with us because we have allowed these mere objects to warp the way we see life.

It is not advisable from your standpoint for YOU because you probably know your motives for using them is for karimi sake. . .you forgot to add the last part.

Live and Let's Live.[/quote]Sisi Eko you have spoken your mind.....but the issue is how would you be distracted during service sending bible quote to someone? Tell me. You can only be in one place at a time. Time to unplug your gadget and let God speak to you, I use my gizmos in my private time and I enjoy it then but not in church! My pastor doesn't own a private jet and does not flaunt his possessions......and thanks for finishing my thoughts some use these gadget in church to show off! I don't even enjoy reading e-books...I always print them out. So leave matter for Mathias!

SimonAndal: _
1. Really? Lazy? So what will portray you as serious and hardworking? A tattered, survived-the-first-world-war bible?
_
2. So we want to get acquainted with the pages and not the message? Wow! I never knew.
_
3. Would you stop that already! You christians've been shouting of this end time for 2k+ years now. Believe me, it gets old. And where in revelations does it say, after the dancing dragons and the fires and the horses and the tattoos, that an ebible is among the signs of the beast?
_
4. YES! Absolutely! My professor demands it. He says, and I quote "No archaic textbooks in my class. My classroom shall be paper-free."

I am going to answer with the word of God.....(unless you are an unbeliever)

1 Cor. 10:23 - Everything is permissible— but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible— but not everything is constructive. (NIV)

1 Cor. 10:23 - All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful; all things are lawful for me, but not all things edify. (KJV)

My guy you are free to use whatever bible you like but ask yourself are you going to show them that you have the latest IPAD or mobile device? Christianity is being turned to a something else.....we are getting too familiar with God. Have you ever seen an Imam using a mobile quaran in the mosque? Besides I have more 4 good bibles and non of them looks war-torn, they are new looking, if any is not looking presentable I simply buy another!

Very soon we'll start bringing GUNS into the church. Not all things are helpful... QUOTE ME PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God help us.

But don't quote me wrong....USING YOUR PHONE BIBLE IN THE CHURCH IS NOT SIN! Only it is not advisable from my standpoint....see my comments in page one https://www.nairaland.com/899893/using-phone-as-bible-sunday/1#10464766[url][/url].

Cheers.

Rich4god: You see yourself... I think you are a little bit confused and your claim of being a former catholic is false. All the proofs that you provided to show that catholics worship Mary can equally be applicable to other saints of the catholic church. In other words, catholics worship not only Mary, but all other saints. Thats why am asking you to explain vividly how we worship Mary. Do we worship Her during the Holy Mass, while praying or what?. Plz enlighten me.

Guy don't take this personal but I have highlighted my points up, it is up to you to read and deduce whatever you want from it, I told before and saying it again and again for the 1,000th time Catholics worship Mary in theory but practically they are worshipping the Queen of Heaven (A demonic goddess)....worship also all saints, dead reverend fathers etc. PURE IDOLATRY! So there is nothing you can ever tell me about Catholic Church that I don't know....Take it or leave it. I

I AM SPEAKING AS AN INSIDER!

I rest my case!

chukwudi44: Could you please tell me how the sobriquet FYI could be insultive? It is obvious u have run out of ideas?

Then my guy define FYI in the context in which you used it.

Everyone you have all said well, but in my opinion using phone bible during service is not a sin! But one thing I tell you is that using it during service portrays the using as unserious and lazy! Even your ipad should not even be used....you should find joy in running through the bible during service so that you'll get aquinted with the pages. You might have millions of reason to use it, but I would never be caught dead in church with my bible phone or Ipad. I see many men of God now using IPAD during service....wow signs of end-time...we should disconnect from all forms of distraction in the presence of God.

Now answer this question during your lectures is it acceptable to use your phone textbook or Ipad in the presence of your professor? Your guess is as good as mine. So if you can respect man then why can't you respect the King of kings and be serious in his presence.

My opinion don't use your electronic bible (phone bible app and IPAD) during service....it is could be distractive and at the same time annoying and offensive to some people, they might think you are browing, twitting or checking facebook!

In addition, those gadgets are [b]very good [/b]when you are doing your personal bible study.

Shalom!

[quote author=chukwudi44]

Worship of Mary: Catholics claim to be honouring Mary and not worship her but the prayer goes: “……..through Mary the Mother of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” Why? Mary is dead and in heaven in the bosom of the LORD, so why waste your time on a human like yourself after Jesus said categorically that he is the way the truth and the life and that no one goes to the Father except by him (John 14:6) Why all the emphasis on Mary being a virgin as if it’s a big deal…infact Mary was not the only virgin in Israel when Jesus was to be born. She was only a vessel (worthy one) through which the Saviour must come, besides it was a law and tradition in Isreal in the law of Moses that a woman must be a virgin before marriage (see Deut 22:20-21). Also, it was ordained by God and was prophesied that Jesus must come from the lineage of David, so since Joseph was from the house of David and betrothed husband of Mary, then no other woman could have been chosen but Mary the wife-to-be of Joseph. So you see Mary was chosen because of Joseph and it was ordained by to be by God Almighty. (Matt. 1:1-25)

Ol boy as we alreay told u we do not worship Mary but rather venerate her.we do this by honouring her as d mother of Jesus and asking her to pray 4 us.No body is going to the father thru mary rather we are going to Jesus thru her.Mind you this privilege is not just restricted to mary but to all the saints as well.u can as well claim we worship all d saints.This is not differant 4rm what is obtainable in pentecostal churches where their members equally ask their pastors to pray 4 them.

On the other issue u raised mary was not the only virgin heaven in heaven but was the only one who could give birth 2 Jesus.If your father had married another woman then someone else and not u would be born.we all have our own distinct features.

You also claimed Mary was chosen because of Joseph,this is ridiculous to say the least.FYI St Joseph did not play any role in the incarnation of Jesus and therefore could not have been a deciding factor.He had not yet slept with his wife and thus did not father Jesus.The incarnation arose as a result of the infusion of the Virgin Mary with the Holy spirit

Guy now I know you are just emotional and don't even know the bible.....so Joseph played no part in the life of Jesus.....he was the husband to be of Mary....so Jesus took his surname (Son of David)....he stood his ground to prevent Mary from being disgraced for getting pregnant our of wedlock...Joseph played a very important role. He is from the lineage of David and the prophesy said Jesus would be born in the lineage of David! Read the bible man.

Also man....you said, "FYI St Joseph did not play any role..., so you are now angry to use "FYI" on me so you think I don't know the meaning? You don't have to be insultive....that's what you people do and after you'll go to the reverend father to confess "Father forgive for I have sin...I told someone FYI on nairaland....."

Peace man.

God will open your eyes.

Rich4god: @Johnnie ZM... Lets discuss this one after the other.
1st of all lets start with WORSHIP OF MARY.
You claim to be a "former" LEGIONARY and a ROSARIAN, plz i want you to explain vividly how RCC worship Mary.

O'l boy after everything I explained up....I suggest you read and digest so that you have a better question to ask me.

Rich4god: @ Johnnie ZM. Its obvious that you are out to attack the catholic church. I just SMH at what you have been saying. You claim to be a former catholic, but all what you say are far from the truth. You said catholics dont read the bible, the 1st & 2nd reading, psalm and Gospel that is been read during mass, where is it taken from?. You again said that we worship Mary, starting with the mass or any other catholic prayer, plz tell me how/where we worship Mary?. With the issue of purgatory, plz read 1 John 5:16 and tell me your own point of view. About asking saints(dead christians) to pray for us, have you not in your life ever asked some1 to pray for you in other to succeed in something?, and remember, our God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacoh, all of whom are dead, what does that mean to you?. With regards to exhuming of deads saints, have you 4goten in the O.T where a man was brought back to life just because his body touched the bone of a dead prophet?, i guess you also know that Mary magdalene and co were about entering the tomb of Jesus the day He ressurected. Does that ring a bell to you? or will say its occultic. About the image, is the ark of convenant not an image?, what abt the bronze snake molded by Moses?. No 1 knows the true church, but as for me, i remain a catholic till death. Moreover its not your church that will lead you to heaven, just live an upright life. Peace be with you.

I'm sorry I've been very busy that is why I've gone for so long a time, I hope my comment is not too late.

Rich4god! Rich4god!! Rich4god!!! How many times did I call you? ......Look let me tell you being an Ex-Catholic, I did not just attend mass, I was a member of the Legion of Mary, Leader of the Block Rosary, Candidate of the Catechism, received First Holy Communion, Confirmation…..need I say that I was a stanch Catholic! So don’t sit there and tell me about Catholicism as if you are an authority in it. I don’t attack Catholics but I tell them the truth, for you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free says the Lord! Let me enumerate one after the other:

Catholics Vs The Bible: Catholics don’t read the bible should not be taken literarily; meaning that they read the bible but like any-other book. Reading the bible in this context is reading it meditatively with understanding and getting the rhema and the logos of the word, well you don’t happen to understand that I’m sure. The Word of God is hidden to you (II Cor 4:3-4) it is a stumbling block to many Christians. Therefore reading selected chapters from the bible in the name of 1st, 2nd and Gospel is not the issue, Catholics should learn to open the complete BIBLE searching from Genesis to Revelation if need be. For God’s sake the Bible is the constitution of a believer how can you not read to know what is in it? Tell me does a lawyer only read selected provisions of the Nigerian Constitution?

Worship of Mary: Catholics claim to be honouring Mary and not worship her but the prayer goes: “……..through Mary the Mother of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.” Why? Mary is dead and in heaven in the bosom of the LORD, so why waste your time on a human like yourself after Jesus said categorically that he is the way the truth and the life and that no one goes to the Father except by him (John 14:6) Why all the emphasis on Mary being a virgin as if it’s a big deal…infact Mary was not the only virgin in Israel when Jesus was to be born. She was only a vessel (worthy one) through which the Saviour must come, besides it was a law and tradition in Isreal in the law of Moses that a woman must be a virgin before marriage (see Deut 22:20-21). Also, it was ordained by God and was prophesied that Jesus must come from the lineage of David, so since Joseph was from the house of David and betrothed husband of Mary, then no other woman could have been chosen but Mary the wife-to-be of Joseph. So you see Mary was chosen because of Joseph and it was ordained by to be by God Almighty. (Matt. 1:1-25)

Catholics Vs Purgatory: Now 1 John 5:16 did not in any way support the existence of purgatory though it talks about sin unto death which Catholics tagged ‘mortal sin,’ but this is not anyway referring to purgatory it is talking about sin against the Holy Ghost which can never be forgiven according to Jesus in Matt 12:31. Now let’s look at this critically, Catholics believe in three state of after life:
1. Heaven
2. Purgatory – which is a temporary condition for the purification of souls who although saved are not free from sin to enter directly into heaven. Souls in purgatory may be aided in reaching heaven by the prayers of the faithful on earth and by the intercession of saints.
3. Final Damnation
Beloved, do not be fooled there are only two ways which Jesus our Saviour painted vividly to us in Matt 7:13-14 and Luke 13:24-30; the narrow way which leads to life eternal (heaven) and the broad way which leads to destruction (damnation or hell). See if there is another way Jesus would have told us expressly! Remember now the story of the rich man and Lazarus? Two places – Abraham’s bosom (Heaven) and Hell – no purgatory! (Luke 16:19-31) Need not say more; just read the book of Revelations and you’ll see that purgatory does not exist!!!!

Catholics Vs. Dead Christian (Saints): There is no record in the bible that we read that the living people ask the dead to pray for them. Even Isaac never asked his dead father Abraham (the father of nations and friend of God) to pray for him. Jesus never ask any saint to pray for him neither did Paul, Peter nor anyone in bible history that I know of. God being the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob doesn’t mean we should ask them to pray for us. God gave us mouths to pray for ourselves (that was why the Lord’s Prayer was given) and even for others – but not for dead people, because after death there is no repentance in the grave. Even if you spend a life time praying for a dead relative it will not nullify God’s Judgment over such.

Catholics Vs. Dead bodies: Exhuming the dead is occultism and not to be practiced in church. Elisha was a prophet who received double portion of Elijah’s anointing, so the fact that his bones raised a dead man was to complete the miracles he was ordained to perform. He had to perform more than Elijah due to his double portion edge….so his bones raised the dead man and it was his last miracle and that was all. There was no record that the bones raised any-other dead man apart from the one raised. So stop practicing cultic art in church.
Furthermore, it is the practice in Jewish custom to anoint their dead with spices after a couple of days, this was what Mary and co. went to do before discovering that Jesus had resurrected. They place dead people in tombs and cover the door-like entrance of such with stones to prevent odour and give privacy to the dead corpse; they don’t exhume or bring out dead corpse to perform any kind of ritual or sacrifice. It is somewhat called defiling oneself with the dead in Lev. 21:1 and Num 5:2. See also necromancer – which is related art of consulting the dead in Deut. 18:10-12. Images and statues are not to be worshipped too (Deut 16:21-22)

I hope I’ve been able to open your eyes a little and I pray that the Holy Spirit will illuminate your spiritual eyes to see the truth in what I just said. I’m sorry if I offend you in anyway, but it is the truth…it is bitter!
God bless you.

Shalom!

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chukwudi44: It is obvious u r just aguing for arguing sake.I presented bible passages to you and you claim there r merely my own opinions.

Your arguments are not making sense any more.You don't even address the points I raised

O'l boy point you raise? I address you in all of them I pointed you to Moses and Aaron and the others who are family..... So what are you now saying? I was once like you - looking for bible passages that doesn't exist to support the Catholic faith. Guy the issue of money is so strong this day because we all run a currency driven economy even in your church why do you give offering in cash? In the bible times offering was given in material things and not money, my dear you cannot do anything in this world economy without MONEY. If you like on Sunday carry a tuber of yam to the church as your offering then you'll be the laughing stock of the church!

Take it or leave it you don't know anything in the bible, for it is hidden to the lost! Sorry if I offend you.