₦airaland Forum

rvp20182:
IMF & WB - have different facilities - Ghana is under bailout (bankruptcy/receivership) - Kenya is not. When you're under bail-out - IMF cease being just a financial institution - become the receiver-manager of your country. You're no longer able to service the loan - and the bank sends a receiver-manager - to basically run your company, see if they can turn it around and if not - maybe sell it or cut their losses.

As for Kenya - Chinese loans are also good. We never signed the Mombasa port to be taken. What we signed was take or pay deal btw Kenya Ports and Kenya Railways. It's akin to your energy sector - where you signed - 30yrs of take or pay for diesel thermal power plants. You already got to "Pay" part of that deal - you're paying for 2,000MW of IDLE Capacity (A WHOOPING 1B DOLLARS). Kenya Ports Authority has not yet reached to PAY part - because they are doing the take part very well.

Please let us learn to speak facts. The 1B dollars idle capacity charge you're paying in your electricity sector is enough to build you a railway every year from one corner of Ghana to the next.

But we know GHANA has possibly the MOST STUPID OF PUBLIC SERVICES - that mistake speaking English like Koffi Annan with Managing a country.

All this your plenty write up will not change the fact that IMF conditionalities have made the Kenyan economy less productive because Kenya is so dependent on their loans for it daily survival.

Ghana has renegotiated almost all of it energy contracts and has revamped it economy to consume 70 to 80% of all the energy that it is capable of producing. Leaving the remaining 20 to 30% for export and as reserve capacity.
This is a wise investment unlike Kenya that has been borrowing money for ages with no development to show for it.
you guys have spent 80 billion dollars for 10 years to feed poor kenyans and support the kshs and now you cant pay.

that is highly stupid

IMF colony like Kenya
stupid Chinese lab rat

rvp20182:
Kenya has a healthy mix of debt. There is balance btw domestic and external. Healthy mix btw the external bilateral and multilateral. Healthy mix btw commercial bonds and commercial loans. Healthy mix btw short term and long term loans. A healthy mix between tbills and tbonds.

Ghana you are over-exposed to commercial external debt - precisely to EUROBONDS. You know because you either don't know what prudence is or because you're desperate to borrow anything.

Look at how much you're now spending to service EUROBONDS. IT IS KILLING YOU,.

naa it not killing us

Because we spent our EuroBond wisely on productive ventures
That are making money and paying for itself.

Kenya has borrowed hugely from China, IMF and World Bank to spend on feeding kenyans now it cant afford to payback .

Such that it has to take Ghana to go and seek debt relief for you dumb guys from World Bank, IMF and China.



You can only developed using long term external debts like the Eurobonds where you can get 50 years plus and not IMF money that strangles your economy.
You guys are so dumb such that when Ghana takes 1 billion from IMF, you take 3 billion from them.
today you owe IMF and World Bank 30billion dollars.

Kenya cannot developed on IMF and WB poverty alleviation programs

Have you not wondered why only the developed economies in Africa borrows more from the Bond market than the Bilateral and multilateral ?
Economies like SA, Nigeria, Ghana and North Africa

Shma:
you don't know what you're saying, just running your mouth with half-baked information. We need to see data , figures bro.. even links can do it.


A country with $60b economy is irrelevant. you should just stick to your mate Uganda with the same category of GDP.

Just passing ..

I've already shown you data and figures

have you closed your eyes to them because it exposes you?




An economy of 230 billion in size is not kenya's mate

After Kenya has been caught to be the country with the most IMF and World Bank loans
Today, IMF money is good....

To develop, the best place to get money is the Bond market
you can get 50% years loans from there. The IMF and World Bank cant give you that.

Kenya can not develop with IMF money, the least problem out of the poor Kenyan economy and Kenya runs to IMF for a cheap loan that keeps kenyans poor and starving.

When Kenyatta wants to campaign, he goes for a Chinese loan and sell a portion of Kenya's sovereignty.

You need prudent economics to be able to borrow from the Bond market.
Ive always told you that the kenyan economy is sitting on quicksand. Just pour small water on it and everything collapses.

Bilateral debt are never good when you dont have the negotiation skills of Germany.

rvp20182:
1) The most developed domestic debt market in SSA is South Africa, Mauritus, Kenya and Nigeria.

2) External Multilateral debt-IMF, ADB, WB - are some best loans to borrow - if you can qualify for them. If you default - they will come and manage your country. It's called a BAILOUT. Ghana has been under one nearly every year of its existence.

3) External bilateral debt like Chinese are also good - low-interest long maturity - but be careful with the fine print.

4) External COMMERCIAL debt - like Eurobond - are bottomless - and very dangerous - because they are debt hawks out there - looking for the Ghanas, Zambais, Argentinas, Greece. Already Ghana is struggling because their eurobond interest is already double digit and it paid in dollars.

5) Domestic debt - Shield the country from shocks like this COVID-19 and commodity market(Oil slump) - but yes gov has to be careful not to overcrowd the private sector and individuals by overborrowing.

Your local debt market is not even as developed as Ivory Coast let alone Ghana.


Ghana only borrows from the IMF and World Bank only when we need it.
IMF and World bank loans are not zero interest loans they just have least rates on the market because they are CHARITY LOANS
for poor economies like Kenya that are so desperate.

Government borrowing from the local debt market is so stupid, no wonder Kenya does not have any productive economy.
The government has borrow all the money that entrepreneurs could have used to build the Kenyan economy.

Only those with strong economies venture into the Bond Market

No wonder Ghana is more developed than Kenya.
IMF and World bank monies can only be used where they want you to used them.
#poverty alleviation

rvp20182:
I know you went to famous West Africa double track school system - and was half-thought. Let me help interpret your data.

Compare kenya and Ghana. The Topic is PRUDENT PUBLIC DEBT MANAGEMENT.

Look at that data again.

We are talking external debt.

1) Multilateral (IMF, WB, ADB) - Kenya borrows and pays heavily there - the reason - these are very competitive mostly zero-interest loans with a long maturity. All you need to qualify to borrow is to prove you're PRUDENT. Ghana cannot qualify for most of it - coz they are known to default.

2) Bilateral. This is China, France, and such countries. Kenya borrows heavily from china - zero interest long maturity. Ghana also borrows heavily - but they mortgage their natural resources (for example bauxite & aluminum & oil). In Kenya - Chinese only requires us to pay a 2% premium for insurances to SINOSURE - in case we default.

3) External Commercial debt. This is Eurobonds, Syndicated loans from big external commercial banks. This is the MOST DANGEROUS loan to borrow. The interest rates can quickly rise. And you pay in dollars. GHANA like an idiot it is - has basically overdone itself.

Kenya is very careful with external commercial debt - in fact we are borrowing at cheaper rate to RETIRE most of it.

Now this afternoon class that you missed.

The DOMESTIC DEBT Market.
Kenya borrows very heavily from there. I think in Sub-Sahara Africa - only South Africa (and maybe Nigeria) has a developed debt market as kenya. I think out gov has borrowed close to 40B dollars. But never worry it borrowed in KSHS and will be repaid in KSHS. Kenya gov can simply print the money and pay that debt any day,

Kenya gov spends Kshs equivalent to 3.5-4B dollars to pay such debt annually.

China is now Kenya's father Christmas

so Kenya was so happy and willing to sell it sovereignty to them FOR JUST 3 BILLION DOLLARS

you dont have good negotiation skills and you want to go for bilateral loans from China

they will continue to rape you.

rvp20182:
We borrow prudently - which is why we are not going into the 17th IMF bailout. We have possibly Africa 2nd most mature domestic bond market after South Africa. You borrow and spend like a drunken sailor.

Prudent borrowing is only done in the Bond market

Kenya economy is bastardized so it doesn't venture the bond market.



Kenya have 5 TIMES IMF and World Bank debt than Ghana
That is charity money.

Your country borrows to feed poor Kenyans
That is consumption borrowing, you wonder you cant afford to pay back and need charity money from IMF and sold Mombasa.

rvp20182:
British drew the border of Gold Coast you were nothing to them but just Gold and Slave deport. And they made you pay 76B dollar for your own golden stool.

If Ghana had decent education - you'd have been taught how European split Africa in Berlin conference of 1886.

The borders of Akan where already drawn up

The Brits only came to reinforce something that already existed.



You guys sold your sovereignty to Britain and now you've sold it to China

you are still making noise


Facts from this data says, you've been running to the IMF and World bank all the time and that is why you debt servicing to them is larger than anywhere else.

Strong economies with strong data trust their economy enough to borrow from the Bond Market

That is why you see SA, Nigeria and Ghana have a high debt servicing to the bond market.

Again, if you are going to use 2017 data update yourself cos Ghana revenue to GDP was 20%

rvp20182:
Facts are very stubborn things.

Africa GDP looks like this as of last year.
1 Nigeria 444.916 2,233.45
2 South Africa 371.298 6,331.46
3 Egypt 299.589 3,019.72
4 Algeria 183.687 4,229.78
5 Morocco 121.350 3,409.95
6 Kenya 99.246 2,010.51
7 Angola 92.191 3,060.02
8 Ethiopia 90.968 951.10
9 Ghana 68.258 2,262.57
10 Tanzania 61.032 1,172.18

Now GDP can be cooked (see Nigeria) - but what pays country debts is GOV REVENUES.

Let see Revenue to GDP as of 2017
South Africa 28%
Kenya 18%
Ghana 13.5%
Nigeria 5%

Let see what actually exists in Gov Coffers of Ghana and Kenya.
Kenya- 18.2% of 100B - is about 18B - none of this is from commodities - therefore steady sustainable gov revenues.
Ghana - 13.5% of 68B - is about 9B - about half of that is probably from minerals and oil (mini-Nigeria)- oil alone account for I think 1B dollars.

Now let which country is Banana republic.
Kenya - external debt servicing - 2.5B billion dollars per annum.
Ghana - external debt servicing - 2.5B billion dollars per annum.

You see - just for external component - Ghana is spending 1/3 of it's money to service it - while Kenya is spending about 11%.

So you know who is going to call IMF. Ghana obviously because it doesn't know what prudent public financial management looks like.

Other stuff like GDP can be cooked - but you cannot COOK EVERYTHING.

rvp20182:
Don't make him put a curtain on the mountain. Kilimanjaro belonged to Kenya but Queen Victoria, then the monarch of the United Kingdom, gave it to her grandson, Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany, as a birthday gift in 1886

waa see nonsense



you guys are so stupid such that the queen decides what and which part of your country to give away.

rvp20182:
Not everyone is proud to go beg IMF - with all their conditionalities. That is why we prefer to beg China - who offers the same competitive loans as IMF & WB - but WITHOUT conditionalities. The conditionalities that UNDERMINE your democracy and independence. The conditionalities that are directed from Washington DC (White House) and Brussels.

When will Ghana become independent?

We don't like IMF and WB because they poke their noses on the internal affairs of our country. They make our independence that we fought with blood - see red colour of our flag - pretty useless.

All IMF and WB loans will come with conditionalities - so as you run to beg them - be careful so you don't sign away your sovereignty - otherwise IMF will be running your parliament, judiciary and executive.

We should be asking when will Kenya be independent

That data proves that Kenya is a begging nation that runs to IMF, China and World Bank all the time because the Kenyan economy is not strong enough to borrow from the Bond market.



Kenya has already sold it independence to China for just 3 billion dollars

wow, that is messed up. If you're going to sell your country, at least do it for more than 100 billion dollars or more.

Good luck being a Chinese colony

Whiles you keep borrowing more from IMF and World Bank than anywhere else

rvp20182:
You're spending about 2.5B dollars to service external debts - about the same with kenya - in an economy that is half kenya - with revenues about half's kenya.

The Ghanaian economy is larger than the Kenyan Economy and it has a lot of economic activity than Kenya so we can afford to do that.

The amount of dollars that flow into the Ghanaian economy from export value, tourism, FDI, Remittances are all larger than that of Kenya.

gallivant:
Richard Branson owns a resort in Kenya. Just Google it hobbit.

burden of prove on you

Danielnino00:
I checked the site a few days back and if was showing 8 recovered patients in Ghana...

they are slow to update

TayserMahri:
Either way, this debate would be way above your league in Ghana

poor country

Shma:
New covid test labs.

and they are all doing just 200 tests?

Shma:
hustlers can only afford such place below.
I know some rich Nigerians in kenya some are even my friends, who leave in those bungalows.
And miniscule Ghana of all the people have the guts to speak about economy
A country with $60b economy is irrelevant to me

They are not rich

They are just ordinary Nigerians who have made it


We can talk about the economy because our economy has always been bigger than yours

you are yt to point to one property

TayserMahri:
He owns property in Kenya, hobbit.

TayserMahri:
There must be a problem with your communication channels in WA. Kenya's is updated every day with the correct figures. In fact when the minister announces it doesnt take an hr to update, i've been watching the site since day 1.

Not really

it is only updated after a pile up

Shma:
okay, the bottom line is that we have facilities and due to low testing pressure we're still not there., give us time when we'll embark on full mass testing.

wat facilities again ?

TayserMahri:
The report was clear its the WORLDS' super rich. The likes of Richard Branson, the guy of Virgin Galactic.

Prove that Richard Brandson has a house in Kenya

Shma:
few individual Nigerians can afford to buy houses in kenya because they have money, unlike Ghanaians.
And Nigerians are everywhere. So what's your point, even a rich Tanzanian buying a house in kenya has no problem.
Nigeria, Nigeria everywhere, don't you have a country or you just crave for ally.

Nigerians that buy houses everywhere are not rich, they are hustlers and love the comfortable living

Ghanaians do not go to places with very little economic activity .

TayserMahri:
Dont lie bro

You have done 7153 tests as of today with 493 confirmed cases and 17 deaths. Very embarrassing for a country that was among the first to report cases in Africa.

Ghana has done 60,000 plus test but it is still showing 50,000

Shma:
some few days before the new kemri equipments were brought we tested 1000+ cases in a single day,
The new lab testing machines which can carry out 35,000 samples within 24h started operation three days ago, that should also tell you a lot.

And 3 days ago, you've been doing like 400 test

TayserMahri:
History shows that every few years Ghana lies on IMF's operation table for gynecological check ups. No need for arguments

According to portfolios


Kenya is a regular customer of the IMF hence why your huge debt to them

TayserMahri:
Individuals should help offset repercussions on the vulnerable, locally we call it Kenya for Kenya, not help the govt fight covid. They have the resources for that.

I dont have to mention for you. its available online

the only people buying homes in Kenya are ordinary Nigerians and Brits youngsters trying to make money out of tourists.

while Kenyans are in slums

TayserMahri:
Thank goodness Ghana is an IMF Guinea Pig

according to debt servicing report, Ghana is not but Kenya is




Kenya owes the IMF and World Bank 4 to 6 times more debt than Ghana

That is what the debt servicing report proves

Shma:
go to live covid- updates.
You claimed to back your nonsense with a link which am yet to see.
So you madly want to place Nigeria ahead of kenya in mass testing and Ghana far ahead of Nigeria.??
You're not smart, kenya will soon overtake you
take a look.

http://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.nation.co.ke/news/New-tech-at-Kemri-to-enable-Kenya-to-mass-test-for-virus/1056-5517402-l95bh5/index.html&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwi7kJHewvDoAhUITcAKHUBnCRoQFjALegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw2TnC4dzhyAcmz_CdfdzL8d

Having a potential is different from reality

The reality has been 600 test at most

In sane countries, responsible citizens are the ones doing the job while the government lead the policy.

You are yet to ,mention one richest man that own property in Kenya

TayserMahri:
Its not the job of individuals to help the govt do its job, and kenyan individuals have raised 1 B already.

The richest men in the world invest and own property in Kenya, what are you talking about? Kenyans stopped stashing money overseas in 2002. Who owns property in tiny unbuilt Ghana?

TayserMahri:
Honestly, on economy, I talk only to people with GDP above 80 B

sorry

we only compare Ghana to countries with PPP above 210 billion dollars


those with 190 below are still poor

TayserMahri:
They recorded nothing?

yes nothing

TayserMahri:
Im talking of individual wealth held within the borders

you are smarter than that as well

No sane wealth holder in Kenya keeps his wealth in Kenya


ain't you wondering why none of them have been able to help your government in COVID?