₦airaland Forum

GreenandGold:
Do you know how powerful Nigeria's military is? This little vehicle here can shoot down all of Nigeria's Air Force fighters without even reloading

That vehicle would get blown up before it leaves Simmons Town Naval base in South Africa, and you wouldn't know what hit it.

jl115:
my bru....he's talking about 1990 Iraq not 2003 Iraq

Yes, I'm referring to 1990 Iraq also.

GreenandGold:
I forgot, the Nigerian Air Force flies into formidable airspace in the country's NE states where random bandits can shoot down a sub-sonic jet

GreenandGold:
**clears throat**

The first Gulf War, Apaches and Cobras flew into formidable Iraqi airspace against experienced Iraqi AA teams and pilots armed with European and Soviet missiles...

Please be realistic. Iraqi airspace and formidable

jl115:
I don't know the details of the black hawk that was downed in Yemen but the very famous one in black hawk down(the movie) was certainly downed due to incompetence.

As for the KA-52.... Well if it was so good Russia would have bought more of it.... Instead they order more mi28s and Mi35s.... And mi28s I believe have also been deployed to Ukraine with fewer losses

Irrespective of your political leanings, the war in Ukraine is clearly the most complex war faced by humans since the end of world war 2.

The amount of firepower the Russians have brought to bear on Ukraine is unprecedented, the amount of support the Ukrainians have received from the west is also unprecedented.

I don't know the number of KA-52s or helicopters the Russians have in service. From the start of the war we've been told the Russians have only 1 weeks worth of missiles left. Open sources can never be trusted for military information, we can only use open sources for estimates (basic).

So the number of helicopters is not known, we can't say how many MI-28s, KA-52 or MI-35M's are in service with the Russians. What we know is, the Russians use the KA-52 helicopters in the most active, SAM infested environments.

The MI-35M has been rarely used for Frontline missions.

GreenandGold:
We don't know much about the helicopter, we just know that Russians are terrible at using their equipment. To be honest, they should not have lost more than 2 of their prestigious AH without realising that they needed to change strategy. I mean the SADF boys shot down a Soviet Hind straight from military college without any missile or prior experience, do you know why? Soviet doctrines.

We are talking from performance we have seen of the AH in a contested environment.

The claim that the Russians should not have lost more than 2 units cannot be logically proven.

jl115:
One thing you haven factored in is competency....something the Saudies severely lack.

imo the Ka52 is not even the best AH in Russia, that would be the Mi28 -, simpler, less complex(more reliable) , better protected, better service ceiling, better climb , and considering they have more or less the same combat suites its a no brainer.

The conflict which the Russian military is currently involved in is as intense as it gets. Giving the sorties conducted by the KA-52 in combat operations, definitely the helicopter has cemented itself as the best in the world in my opinion.

There has never been any helicopter in history of warfare that has been involved in such a complex war environment.

Before you start calling Saudi incompetence, you need to also remember the US army also lost a Black Hawk helicopter in Yemen. Is this also down to US military incompetence?

What I've also seen in this conflict is, manufacturer released specifications almost entirely come to nothing when actual combat begins.

A good example is the TB-2 UCAVs in this conflict.

jl115:
who considered it the best in the world??

Giving the environment the helicopter is operating in. SAM systems faced, and the quality of the adversary faced.

Also considering the Russians are fighting against the entire NATO infrastructure: intelligence, satellites, communications, military equipment, counter-battery systems, electronic warfare systems

These are my parameters.


Saudi Arabia has lost 10 Apache helicopters in Yemen operating against militants.

Is the KA-52 Alligator, the world's best Attack Helicopter?


Since the start of the Russian invasion, 3 months ago, 10 KA-52 Alligator Attack Helicopters have been destroyed in Ukraine. Considering the intensity of which they have been used in this conflict, including areas of employment and aircraft availability.

..

Subsaharan:
Ehn, no wahala. But let's put out disclaimers without the usual lacing with insults abeg

I agree with this.

Nigerian and French Navy hydrographic teams train together in Lagos, Nigeria.

Subsaharan:
But these mob actions no good na? Haba.

Make una let the man be

That individual has a very active imagination. He has successfully grown a large following on twitter through deception, illogical propaganda and the incessant spread of Fake news.

It is crucial that Nigerians, like myself and others here, continue to call out his fake news. We already have a negative perception, it makes things worse to have an individual on the loose fuel that perception even more.

That's what's at stake here.

So, NO!!! we cannot let his ridiculous fake news fly.

Toju200:
See una brother

What a raving lunatic.

South African Special Forces in Mozambique

JF-17 Thunder Block-2 armed with 2x PL-5EII WVRM & 2x PL-12/SD-10A BVRM

Nigerian Navy LST, NNS Kada

Nigerian Air Force MI-24V flying over the North East combat zone.

youghs:
Kraz Spartan is still in service. It was seen in the documentary made by babajide otitoju

Mostly phased out, built on commercially available Ford F-150 chassis.

Nigerian Troops

Stormtrooper11:
News been flying around that the Nigerian Airforce is getting the CASA 295 armed ISR aircraft. Please how true is this news, chiefs?!

While Nigeria is interested in the CASA 295 Transport Aircraft, there is no evidence to show we are interested in this armed variant.

Stormtrooper11:
News been flying around that the Nigerian Airforce is getting the CASA 295 armed ISR aircraft. Please how true is this news, chiefs?!

News from Defense News Nigeria. It is false and doesn't make any sense.

One of his usual daydreaming.

Stargate254:
65 T-72 tanks (give or take) had already been delivered to South Sudan b4 this highjacking incident. I believe the highjacked ship was the final shipment. It included 33 tanks, and 7 Multiple Rocket Launchers
They were all transported via the old rail to Nairobi (Kahawa Barracks) Satellite imagery showed they stayed there for a while and were pictured being used in training exercises.

While the heavy T-72 tanks did stay, I have never been able to spot the MRL systems evrrr since they were pictured being offloaded in Mombasa port... If we had them we would have surely used them in Somalia especially during the initial Operation Linda Nchi campaign when Alshabaab was fighting like a conventional army (they had uniforms, some APCs, Toyota technicals mounted with anti aircraft guns and moved in formation.. etc) a MRL would have been perfect hellfire for them.. So the lack of evidence points to a scenario where the MRL who h were part of the cargo from the highjacked ship still made their way to S.Sudan

33 T-72 Tanks, that's not bad. The Tank numbers begin to look respectable when you add the Vickers MBTs in KDF service.

It seems Al-Shabaab is now a spent Force, lacking in capabilities to conduct operations in any significant scale?

Are there any news on military equipment procurement from Kenya? Apart from the C-27J aircrafts I don't think we've seen any other significant purchases.

Buschlaid:
I've just read the rest of your answers and seriously, I don't have time for this. SIPRI is awful source, SIPRI also claims Angola has BMD-3 that they have never ever received. It often contains a lot of innacuracies. I can't blame you for using it though, it's probably the only source that claims any number, it's just not very reliable from my experience. And thank you for providing me with some sources, after I asked you, but also with adding on top of it more statements, you have again, not backed by any sources. I backed my claims and you ignored it.

I think it would be best for us to agree to disagree.

I do not agree with a lot of your comments on this subject, instead of having a long drawn out debate to nowhere, it's best we call it a day.

As for the Reva MRAPs, South Africa sold poor quality, poorly engineered vehicles to Nigeria in 2015.

In 2018, photos attached, show the state of the Vehicles.

Nigeria did not buy additional MRAPs from China because they were cheap, the CS/VP3 is battle proven. The Reva's on the other hand are worthless.

Buschlaid:
Panhard VBL: a few days ago you have posted a picture of one Nigerian VBL, isn't it recent? It's on page 2539. Anyway, last pictures I have of Panhards are from 2019.

KrAZ Spartan: Not true, still in service, I have some pictures from last year. I have attached 2 of them...

Otokar Cobra: I know they are still in service, I have attached one picture of them.


This is my source, this number of types is awfully large, too many unique types that share few or no parts at all. And the diversity of importers of these vehicles is also large, usually armies buy from just a few countries.

The Panhard VBL has been in Nigerian army service since 1986. They used to be deployed in the North East, but they no longer serve there.

The photo I shared was taken at the Nigerian army's school of Infantry in Kaduna state.

Kraz Spartan are no longer in service, the Nigerian army purchased quite a few units, those vehicles have since been replaced by the Legion MRAP and CS/VP3 in Nigerian army service.

The Otokar Cobra was bought in 2003, a number of units were put back in the North East as I had earlier pointed out.

You are yet to show evidence that the Nigerian army uses a wide variety of vehicles in active combat operations.

I have provided ample evidence to show that the Nigerian army operates only vehicles from 3 different countries, Nigerian being one of them in active operations.

So how does this constitute a logistical nightmare considering the evidence before us?

Buschlaid:
Funny you say I'm wrong but don't back your claim. I could say the exact same thing.
I won't say anything about numbers in service or where such vehicles serve, which matters a little, main logistical problem is number of types.

But your claim that Nigeria has 6 KIA K142 in service catched my eyes, any source for this? Because I haven't found any specified number that has been ordered/received.

Unfortunately you did not back any of your claims with any sources, I have shared SIPRI sources with you.

Where a vehicle serves is very, very important in determining the durability and effectiveness of that vehicle.

You simply cannot deploy a vehicle you don't trust to the front lines.

I have attached my source for the K142, SIPRI.

The Nigerian army actually had 5 units in service, we have seen pictures of 3 units destroyed in combat operations. It's say to assume that they might have all been destroyed in combat or withdrawn from service.

Buschlaid:
MAXXPRO and Caiman: Wrong! You could see them on ceremony when Ezugwus entered service back in 2020. Remember the picture in my previous post? Yeah, they are in the picture ) By the way, according to numerous sites, such as army recognition, they were donated in 2016, not earlier...

From this picture you shared?

No, the Caiman and Maxpro just like the Reva before it are not in service. This photo was taken at the Nigerian Army School of Mechanical and Electrical Engineering. Obsolete T-72 Tanks were also parked there.

They are not in service.

Buschlaid:
Marauder: How is that relevant? Usually armies try to have some unification between branches and I would love to know what is your source for just 2 in service. All I could find is that there is unknown number in service. Either way, you still need to deliver parts for them, further stretching logistics.

No they don't. Why do the US Marines fly the AH-1Z Viper instead of Apache Helicopters?

The Nigerian Air Force is not the Nigerian army. They do not have a combined budget.

You cannot claim that they are the same. The Air Force is different from the Army, and where assets are deployed tells you about the ease of employment, durability and effectiveness of that asset.


Actually 3 units of Marauder MRAPs bought by the Nigerian Air Force.

Source: SIPRI arms transfer database.

Buschlaid:
REVA: They are better than majority of the MRAPs Nigeria has in service, phasing them out for being "obsolete" would be ridiculous. Do you have any support for your claim that they are phased out and obsolete? Also if REVAs lacked technical characteristics to operate in Nigerian service, why did army order 40 then?

The REVA MRAPs were purchased in 2015, and were primarily used by the 72 MSF, whom were trained by South-African mercs. Following the defeat of the former President of Nigeria in the elections, the unit was disbanded and members/vehicles transferred to the newly formed AFSF unit. The REVA vehicles proved to less reliable, some of the damaged vehicles were canibalized for parts. Tons of photos have been shared on this thread to support this.

All Reva MRAPs in Nigerian army service are derelict, damaged in combat or obsolete.

The Nigerian army ordered more CS/VP3 MRAPs, instead of Reva MRAPs, tells you how well the REVA MRAP did.

Buschlaid:
Okay, so I looked into my files where I have pictures of Nigerian army. And I have these types:

South Africa: REVA MkIII, Marauder

REVA MRAPs no longer exist in Nigerian army service. The vehicles proved to lack the technical characteristics required to operate in a Nigerian environment. Phased out, and obsolete.

Marauder MRAP - 2 units used by the Nigerian Air Force for Base Defence, not used by the Nigerian army. Different Service!!

Buschlaid:
USA: MAXXPRO, BAE Caiman

24 units, second hand, donated to the Nigerian army in 2013/14. No longer in service with the Nigerian army

Buschlaid:
UAE: Isotrex Legion, Isotrex Phantom 2
China: CS/VP3 Bigfoot
Nigeria: Ezugwu, Proforce ARA

All the above mentioned vehicles are the primary MRAPs employed by the Nigerian army in the North-East.

Buschlaid:
To add to this, Nigeria army also operates highly diverse armored personnel carriers like Mengshi CSK-131, KIA K152, VAB, KrAZ Spartan, Otokar Cobra... And no, all of this is still in service, none have been phased out. Also my list might not be complete, I was never really interested in Nigerian army as much as in other ones, so I only have a few photos downloaded. Anyway, this is a lot of types and I haven't even started writing list of
other vehicle types where Nigerian army is just as diverse. This is logistical nightmare in my opinion.

There is also this Nigerian MRAP that I have seen a couple of times, articles claim they entered service but I don't know their name or if that's true.

You are wrong, the fact that the Nigerian army bought some of these in the past, doesn't mean they are still in service.

Mengshi CSK-131- 100 units acquired - in service

KIA K152 - 6 units acquired - significant possibility that they have all been destroyed in combat.

VAB,- Do you mean the Panhard VBL -Nigeria purchased these vehicles in 1986(36 years ago) withdrawn from frontline service and into storage.

KrAZ Spartan - Phased out or destroyed in combat.

Otokar Cobra - purchased in 2003, initially withdrawn from the front-line, but around 15 units were recently put back into action.



You are yet to provide any evidence to support your claims that there is a logistical Nightmare currently unfolding in the Nigerian military MRAP deployment.

Can you post that evidence you claim to have?

GreenandGold:
Bro, don't pretend these are the only vehicles you'll have. You already have half a dozen other types in large numbers in the country already that need maintenance.

No, talk about what is reality, not want you want reality to be.

There are no half a dozen types in Nigerian army service.

There are only CS/VP3 MRAPs from China & Legion MRAPs from the UAE. Proforce Ara & Ezugwu are Nigerian.

GreenandGold:
The internet never forgets

kabe1:
Nigerian army does not use MRAPs from South-Africa.

Bros, you are better than this.


Nigerian Air Force purchased only 2 units of Marauder MRAPs which are used for base defence in Niger State(Central Nigeria), not in the North-East.

The Reva MRAP has since been taken off service as most of them had reached the stage of obsolescence.