₦airaland Forum

Love it!

Not bad at all! Good playlist to listen to @ work. Please add more FELA songs abeg,

[quote author=tpia. link=topic=418344.msg5760651#msg5760651 date=1269460944]plenty of people migrate to the US from all the countries you mentioned.

and yes, for better opportunities, not just to "game the system".

The US is not canada and europe, no matter how much people try to make it so.[/quote]My point was that the first few countries i mentioned are poor countries that do not have a functioning system and that is why they are here. The other countries would not bother to come here to work. Read the post again.

How many people you see here  going to Europe for treatment
So Doctors should be paid less? After Medical school and loans? And who said that they will usher inVacations? DID obama put that in the bill? if not its irrelvant.
How many people you know that actually work in medical professions instead of reading newpapers?
A Nurse in Germany after 20 years will earn 40K
A nurses starting salary is higher than that.  
I am not saying they shouldnt work on the healthcare, they should work on the direct cost between the Hospitals and Insurance rather than saying hey lets tax people because they have more
[quote][/quote]Since it was hard for you to understand what i was trying to say, let me make it simpler for you.
1) I only referenced the vacation time in Europe to let you know that it may be difficult to make a direct comparison of the salaries in both places. They may be working less and that is why they are making less. Infact i can tell you as a matter of fact that they work less (since i worked there as well). I never said it was in the bill (try to read and understand)
2) There are government benefits that they receive because they make less that American would not even dream of. Ask your sister what is the percentage of her salary that she would get if she would loose her job? ask here how many "years" not months that she can get off from work paid when she has a baby and is sill be able to get back her old Job or equivalent and not get skipped over for promotion because she was out for 3 years.
3) You would be surprised to know how much i know about the medical profession (personally) including what i read in newspapers and comprehend unlike others, All u need to do is ask and i will let u know.
4) When you ask how many people do i see coming from the US to Europe for treatment, i would ask you, how may poor People or average citizens do u see coming here for treatment. And the kind of treatment they come here for how many average Americans even with insurance do u see getting that care and not go broke while they are at it? How many Europeans have u heard of that had to file for bankruptcy because they were ill? Do some research on that, since u know how to find graphs.
Your last statement did not make sense so i will not respond to that.

davidylan:
To start with, you're the one who brought the utterly irrelevant doctors pay into the equation.
Secondly . . . you're a practitioner of what exactly? you're not a doctor so cut the crap about doctors pay, its not like you truly care about it.

Face the issues, you've been sidestepping them while providing us irrelevant charts of doctor salary scales.

Thank you! Could not have said it better.
She is in massage therapy school and coming here to complain about doctor's pay,

[quote author=tpia. link=topic=418344.msg5760450#msg5760450 date=1269459109]i don't really see any reason for comparing the US health system to Europe and Canada anyway, seeing how a lot of doctors from those places still run to the US to work.

Compare that to the number of US doctors who work in other countries.

The vast majority are there on humanitarian missions. They dont go to other countries for "better opportunities" although of course all that may change now.[/quote]What doctors are you referring to? The ones coming from Nigeria, Russia or any East European country? How many have you seen come from western Europe, Scandinavia etc?
If any comes from Western Europe they are because they know they can game the system here.
Saying that because it works in Europena and Canada does not mean it will work here, well we can say that for anything,

platinumnk:
We all know that Medicaid pays low.
what happens when you work more for less?

They pay low compared to what? The services rendered ( i doubt it)
There is a difference between paying low and paying fair or for services rendered.
If you have car, i bet you have insurance because it required in most states. How come you are not fighting to abolish that as well, so that way when you hit someone or someone hits you both of you can duke it out Naija style to determine who will pay who.
My point is, have health insurance cover everyone and keeping it affordable is part of living in a sophisticated society and i think most Americans should welcome this development.

platinumnk:
Did you hear they are shutting down space programs?
Stop running around incircles, there are more programs that are ineffiecent that you  are not naming.
There's a lot of talking around in circles here, but I can tell you what happens to physicians' salaries when the government gets involved - they plummet. Medicare reimbursement cuts have been declining every few years for the past decade and a half. I was reading this morning about physician pay in Germany being quite poor compared to the US. I guess it looks like we can catch up with them pretty soon

These German doctors you keep talking about, did they tell you they were suffering or did they tell you they were poor. Did you even see any of them trying to come work in the states like Nigerian doctors trying to go anywhere but Nigeria?
Try telling those doctors that you will take a way their minimum vacation time of at least 60days a year (of which i am sure doctors get at least 90 days) for the eextrahealth care workers male working like dogs. Have you ever wondered why health care workers make the so called "big money" and but the big houses that they never get to spend time in? Well let me let you know, because they need 23hours out of the 24hours iIn aday to make that money. What quality of life is that? Have you been to Europe in the summer time? There is practically nobody working because they are all on vacation! This what the aagreedto take instaed of  the extra change you might get here working 24/7. They just have different exexpectationsn how they want to spend their lives.
Just as a simple thought, since you keep harping on how much doctors and nurses make. Just because they make it now does not mean it is justified or that they can not live on less and still have a great life. Do some research and you will find that CEO's in Japan have a cap on how much they can make but here in the states there is no thing as a limit on CEO pay. Does that mean CEO's here are doing a better job? In the states sports stars, movie starts etc make millions but it does not mean they cannot get less and still be happy or not do as well a job as they have been doing.

Yeah we need to follow up on that and wish him well as he leaves,

platinumnk:
this is merely transferring the system from a volume of services system to a volume of diagnosis system. This will result in physicians seeing more patients for less pay. Under such a system, a physician may work a 12 hour day and receive little to no compensation due to poor "quality" of diagnosis.
I know what you want to tell me, short story, the Rich are taxed (Which does affect me) and they pass on the Taxes off to the uninsured right, and that children can stay longer on their parents insurance. Doctors and Nurses will be compensated the same, and nothing comes from our pay for those who dont earn more than 200, 000.

sounds like a fairy tale come true right?

You claim to understand, but none of yall think beyond whats on paper.

The problem with that is government programs are extraordinarily inefficient and usually create more problems than they solve while making the whole mess even more complicated.

Do u realize that this bill does not have a "public option"? so there is no new government program that did not exist before this bill was passed. There will be an insurance exchange that will allow people and small businesses to come together and shop for better prices. By coming together they can bargain for better rates. Now tell me what is wrong with that?
You mentioned before that stocks of insurance companies went up, that happened because investors know there will be 30million new customers. Do u think investors are trying to loose their money?
The reason why it is necessary to mandate people to buy insurance is because most health young people refuse to buy insurance now because they are healthy. We don't need them buying it when they are sick and will only drain a system they did not contribute to.
What is your major problem with the bill? u think you will earn less or what?

Wow @platinumnk.
It's so obvious that you have no clue of what you are talking about. Go get informed and come back and try this again. I believe a number of people have told you on this forum already that the bill and by the way no bill in this country is perfect but it does a lot to correct the wrongs that have been in the healthcare industry for decades now.
I am still trying to decipher what your argument is, that doctors will earn less or that the quality of healthcare will be reduced? Remember with the new bill they are not firing all the doctors and healthcare workers we have now and importing new and less qualified ones from Congo. The same doctors u had yesterday will still be there tomorrow doing the same things they do albeit In a better and more regulated system.
Before you go off on a tangent and talk about your "dear sister" that works in Germany, let me point out that i lived in Germany  a long time and now live in the states and the differences in both. Ask your sister all the other government benefits she gets even though you say she is earning less. ask her how much the government pays her as "kinder Geld" for her kids every month till they are 21! Ask her how much vacation time she gets i paid in a year? Ask her how many hours she works in a day and they compare that to people in the states and come back and let us know.
If u need someone to explain the bill to you or the issues that it will be addressing i will be glad to do that. ( i mean that in a good way) Or you want to know why the countries you mentioned are better off than the U.S in terms of healthcare i can help with that as well. I have an abundance of examples, even personal ones.

KunleOshob:
Obviously a lot of of people who are posting on this thread are not privy to the background to it so i would just ignore their daft comments. That apart a lot of people might feel offended that i ridiculed a lot of "church" doctrines here, i have no aplogies either cos the doctrines i ridicled are man made doctrines that have been twisted and presented as the word of God. If the clergy had been upright and going about it's calling based on the true and undiluted bible based teachings the issue of ridicling these false teachings would not even arise. It would also serve to make other christians realize that these are false and ridiculous teachings being perpetuatd by men for their own selfish reasons and not necessarily the word of God. How many of these pastors genuinely use these church collections to do God's work? and what exactly is God's work? i know it is definitely not building churches up and down or spreading the brand name of a particular church franchise, it is more of helping the poor and the needy and very few churches actually engage in this. And to those who fret any time they hear the word pastor mentioned, my question is this who annointed those men as pastors and how do you know they are genuine? There is only one biblically recommended way and that is by the fruits they exhibit. so if any man who claims to be a pastor is exhibiting fruits contrary to what was taught by Jesus i can feel free to ridicle such a person or doctrine knowing fully well that such a person is not known to christ. Jesus himself said that "not all that call him lord [even those who do miracles in his name] shall enter the kingdom of God but only those who do the will of the father.

This is the more sensible thing that i have read all day. THANK YOU!
My question would be, why do Nigerians go running for the hill when they hear the word pastor? Are these not men like yourself? It irritates the hell out of me when i hear them calling them "anointed men of god"! Who anointed them? I if quit my job now open up a place of service, study the bible 24/7 so that i can quote it proficiently and have my congregation support my lifestyle, does that make an anointed man of god?

@ Post THANK YOU!!! I could not have said it any better!

Keep a comprehensive list of the ones that you trust and can vouch for and tell whoever wants to get on the list has to get with you somehow for validation.

I don't understand why so many people are fussing over the amount donated by the Governor. Yes $1 million is a lot of money and can go a long way in doing things in Lagos state, yes there are still poor people in Nigeria suffering,   But must we always give only when we have satisfied all our needs? The idea of helping sometimes means you have to give up something on your part for the sake of others. We see this everyday in our individual lives. when you give money in the church does it mean that all your problems have been solved? when you give a beggar money on the road does it mean you nor long have to pay your rent that month? I am guessing not, you give because you want to help, because you have seen someone who has it worse that you, because you know without that money you will still survive somehow.
In this case we have to note that Haiti is in dire need of help now and any way we can as individuals or countries to help we should do that for the sake of humanity and because we know the little we gave will make a big difference for someone in that country and YES we can do without that money.

If you need a reason to be mad about the Nigerian Gov wasting money i am sure you don't have to look too hard to find one. Heck,  you could start with the N7 Billion that will be used in building the new residence for the VP. Is he living on a tree now that we are spending that kind of money now? or have we solved all Niger's problems? That's a valid reason for outrage if you ask me.

Great idea!
It's about time. Like you said we have Nigerian experts all over the world with a variety of skills that we can pull together to come up with practical ideas to help our country. Enough of these discusions that degenerate to name calling and tribal warfare.
I will be looking forward to that section.

@ poster
You cannot be serious! You want to know what i have done for the (president we did not elect)?
Well we have allowed him to take our money to go to a foreign country to see if they can keep him alive while the rest of us deal with the mess he left behind. You think if he did not have access to those hospitals abroad he would still be alive? Now think of all those Nigerians that have even less serious ailments and die needlessly in a country he has not made one effort to change. for Christ's sake he was a Governor with nearly absolute power for 8 years and he id not see it fit to build a hospital that can serve him? The one he is now dying in, was it built by ghosts? or by forward thinking leaders?
And please stop your nonsense about other African countries not having good hospitals and schools! So since they don't have them we should lower our aspirations? You must be kidding! The Asian countries that are developed now i bet you they did not get where they are today thinking the way you are.
Mind it is not a bad thing if he resigns, it's not as if he is the best and brightest that we have to run our country. You question should be what could he have done for Nigeria when he had a chance because right now he cannot even help himself, we are the ones doing him a favor by paying for him to sit in a hospital in a country with power while we literally sit in the dark wondering what next?

I have sent that invitation to at least 5 people and it has always worked. The invitation he is sending is certified by the local govt. of where he lives and for him to get it, he has to prove that he has enough money to take care of you when you come over for the short stay, that he has a place to house you when you come over and lastly if you come over and do not go back home and they have to deport you, he will have to foot the bill. The takes away the burden of you having to prove anything to them (except you go there and tell them u no dey plan to come back).That is why i only did it for my siblings cause i knew i could trust them. If he does it for you, then he must trust you. All you have to do is go to the embassy with your invitation letter, statement of account for the last 3 months i believe and show your ticket and maybe some docs saying you have a biz or in school and you should get your visa. The visa may only be for 2weeks though. The last one i did was for 2008 Christmas for my sis who is a student in Nigeria and she got a two weeks visa which was just what she appled for.
Good luck, hope i was able to help.

This is one of the better threads that I have read on this website. I truly encourage the poster to continue. It warms my heart to see that we still have people that can think independently Nigeria. I am still amazed each day by the amount of “crap’ that people accept from some of these churches in the name of worshiping. My prayer is that some day Nigerians will wake up and learn to “question” things and just follow blindly. If you still do not get what the poster is trying to say, I would suggest that you read it once more “carefully” you may just get it the second time around.
Looking forward to the next installment.

ferdiii:
How do you know God ordained him? I don't know-anything Nigerians can't change or were too weak to change goes on to become God's doing. Well the only thing the corrupt and insensitive ellite are afraid of is death. Please God strike them all round every day, so that many innocent people will get jobs and stay away from crimes and other vices. These foolish politicians and their military and western backers make folks here blind, hopeless and stunted in growth generation to generation.

Thank you! Nigerians will never cease to amaze me with how they reason sometimes. What has "God" to do with this issue.

I do not personally believe in tithing, I give what I can during the offering and that’s about it. If you owe money why should you be giving 10% or whatever percentage of what you don’t have? I am sure God will understand as long as you are true to yourself. This is the real world we a living in people!

Hotel business is very profitable but I have to tell you that it comes with a lot of headache (speaking from experience). You should be ready to deal with unforeseen circumstance with customers, workers, local government, Police, PHCN (NEPA) etc Hotels attract all sorts of people.
With the power situation in Nigeria today you will spend most of your revenue on diesel, generator repairs or paying off NEPA. This will lead to raising prices to the level that depending on your location your clientele may not be willing to pay. Security is another key issue. You may have a hard time just breaking even. Proper planning and management is key.
Good luck with which ever you choose to go with.