₦airaland Forum

Freemasonry is a peculiar system of morality illustrated by signs and symbols.

The reason why many authors have differences is how they interpret the Masonic symbols.

Also you should know that they are just authors expressing their OWN views on what they think Freemasonry is.Nobody speaks for Freemasonry , though there are many Grand Lodges and they are all autonomous.

Another thing you should know is anybody can write and publish anything on the net, that doesn't make it true, or false.

Freemasonry has no creed and it doesn't pretend to be a religion.It only asks that members believe in a Supreme Being.It is not for Freemasonry to insist on how you want to relate with your creator as long as you acknowledge you were put on this earth by something greater than you.

The only way to understand Masonry is to immerse yourself in its symbols, and this can take a long time.

I am writing from experience and not what known and unknown people have written online.

I have no regrets being one though I am very hesitant to recommend people as you have to be of a certain character to appreciate Freemasonry and what it teaches.

Masonry is a way of life.Some may grasp its teachings in a few months, while others might take many years, and some would never grasp its teachings.Such is life.

[quote author=rich_john link=topic=432816.msg6001791#msg6001791 date=1273048495]Are they the same as the illuminati?[/quote]No, they are not the same, but some people would want you to believe they are.I will leave it at that as to treat that question requires more than this thread.

otitokoro1:
With the way you sound, you do not have the quality of Freemason. You only want us to believe all you say. My advice to you, do not allow your mouth to kill you.

You are not fit to judge me.Thats the problem with people of your ilk.

I am not here to convince you as you've already made up your mind on what Masonry is.This is not a selection process.In case you didn't read my previous post properly, I answered your question, the problem is you didn't get it, as usual.

If my mouth kills me, so be it.At least I died talking about what I know, unlike you.

Anyway, you know it all, so stop asking questions.

You must not believe me, as that wont change anything.

Just know that I am not posting based on what I read or what I was told, I am a true,tried and tested Mason and belong to many Masonic organizations, both those you know,read about or heard about and those you don't even know exists.Masonry is a far cry from what many people are led to think it is.I think the fear of the unknown is what makes people believe all the crap they read or hear about Masonry.

In all my years of being a Freemason ( I've been one for many years and I attend Masonic functions regularly) I am yet to see any reference to satanic rites or any form of worship, but I guess you wont believe me.I have also attended lodge in countries on all continents and yet to see this so called Satanic influence, but what do I know since none masons know more than those that are real Masons

2B1ASK1.

I laugh when I read posts like this and the response from many people who don't know anything about the topic in question.

Many of the commentators here don't know anything about Freemasonry apart from the nonsense posted on many religious fanatics websites, nonsense that have been debunked a long time ago, but I guess the "sheeple" that swallow such things hook , line and sinker don't know the truth even if it stars them in the face.

I've been a Mason for many years and there is nothing satanic about the fraternity.You can believe what you want, especially when you are not a member and don't know how to confirm most of the crap being posted by disgruntled elements.

Freemason has nothing to do with organized religion and doesn't claim to be one.In fact religion isn't discussed in Masonic meetings ( same as Politics) as we all know the problems of the world today are caused by these TWO things( religion and Politics).

All Masonry asks is a belief in a Supreme Being.Its up to you and your creator to decide( whenever you meet him or them) if you lived your life accordingly.Freemasonry would never force you to do anything you don't want to do, and you can leave any day or time you choose, contrary to what many ignorant people think.

All I can say is you cant be a Freemason and be intolerant or ignorant, and that is something most organized religions don't like.I guess to most Nigerians if I don't attend your Church I worship the Devil, lol

As I said, believe what you want, and before someone posts that I don't know what happens because I've not reached the top, you tell me what is the top of Freemasonry and how do you know I haven't attained that??

A none Mason is not in a position to tell you anything about masonry because he doesn't know, apart from what he reads from people who may not be Masons or who write with very questionable motives.

jabbok:
@ Kapten,

some of your hash remarks above to fellow NLs are everything but freemasonry. watch the ego, I am not a masonic person but I believe that Freemasons believe that the ego is one of the major obstacles to our enlightenment.

with respect.

Hmmmm, how are my remarks harsh??

I merely responded in kind to attacks on either my person or the organization.I am tired of people posting hearsay as truth.Show my where I went on the offensive, if not in response to either an attack on my person of Masonry.

BTW I owe nobody any apologies.At the end of the day its up to me and my maker if what I posted is false.

I am done with this thread, except where I specifically referred to.

kiwi992:
Hey You Two Imbecilic Fools,


The above Church signpost says it all.  Thanks to NigNog.

Never mind the New Order.  You need to seek salvation from Allah or God, for all your sins. 

I rest my case.



kiwi992.

Nitwit,

You are the complete slowpoke here.I knew you would fall for it. lol.

That is a fake sign post he made with a template, dumb ass hole.Anybody with brains can tell that, but as already proven you don't have one.You are a case sturdy in stupidity.

Continue to make yourself a total blockhead.I rest my case.

"An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish.Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head."

kiwi992:
Hey You Two Smack Heads,


Don't push me, okay?

Don't, 'cos you ain't gonna like what I'll post here.  As I said, shut the fxxk up and scram else you'd be exposed.  You wouldn't like to hear the bitter truth about your fraternity or would 'ya?

Still in denial are we?  Well, you wait for it and refuse to listen to me.  You've been warned to shush and never dispute what I say.  Okay?  

Oh yeah, and before you start running scared, remember, you can run but you can not hide from me.  Uncivilised thieving corrupt lot that are only members of the Brotherhood for their own selfish material gain.

Which of your family members have you picked out to sacrifice for money?  Son, daughter, brother or who?

I'm still waiting for you crack heads to apologise to me.  Now do it or else I'll kick your arses.




kiwi992.

NB
My apologies to the decent FreeMasons in this Forum.  These two buggers asked for it and I'd soon come down on them like a ton of bricks.

Nitwit,

As stated earlier you've got nothing to say.This very post from you is the most childish response out of the whole lot in the thread.You are just a dunce who seeks attention.You've been bouncing from one lie to the other.Needless to say you have no proof of any sacrilegious behavior by Regular Masons.

What a pity because at the beginning I thought you had something, even if its wrong information, but something I could talk about.Reading your subsequent responses just shows how intellectually shabby and bereft of ideas you are.Run from you I don't think so, more like squash you like a bug.You've not said anything worthwhile or new , hint,  go back and read responses from others.Talk is cheap.

Others on here would agree with me that carrying on with this crap reduces me to your level. I am done with this piece of shit.

A parting shot for you !!!!

"An empty head is not really empty; it is stuffed with rubbish.Hence the difficulty of forcing anything into an empty head."

Kiwi,

I like how you try to divert issues and prance around.This whole issue started when I called you out on the inaccuracies regarding being invited by the GM of NW England ( lol). You've still not told us how a Provincial Grand Lodge is a Grand Lodge (LMAO)

Your pathetic attempt at research isn't saying anything new.Martin Short is a known anti Masonic author and likes generating controversy to sell his books.Any true Mason or objective person knows his stories are designed for such.

I didn't see anything in the post that should make me quake in my boots.The unfortunate thing is lots of people masquerade as Freemasons and most people don't know as they assume all are the same, very wrong.Besides ALL organizations and groups have bad eggs.No group can avoid that.

Stick to the subject at hand and don't try to divert attention.You cant be insulting the Fraternity on one hand and apologizing to its members on here. For the avoidance of doubt I am not fighting with you, I simply straightened you out in my first reply to your lies."Anything after that na jara".

I am done with this nut case.If you have something better and WELL thought out bring it on, if not I am done exposing you for the nitwit you are.Its clear to anybody reading your feeble attempts to rant who the idiot is. You are not even a good liar.Kiwi or is it nitwit(that's your name from now on) if this is the best you can offer then I am wasting my time.

Stick to what you think you are good at which in your case would be 419.

Kiwi,

Its high time you admit you don't know squat about what you are saying.There is only one Grand Lodge in England with ONE Grand Master who in turn appoints Provincial Grand Masters to serve at his will and pleasure.Get that, will and pleasure 

There is no amount of research or proof you would supply that would disprove this undisputed fact.Good luck trying.You slowpoke!!!

Its clear who the retard is.As I said earlier on, your post reminds me of a seven year old trying to argue on issues he doesn't know anything about.

Grow up!!!, oh I forgot you cant because you are a slowpoke.    

Honestly, ask and I would give you the correct answers not the half baked crap and research you don't even have the mental ability to comprehend.

Kiwi, your continuous posts shows your level of stupidity.Throwing names and insulting people only shows how wounded you are.It plain to see your diversionary tactics isn't working.As I said earlier on, if you don't know about something, ask.That way those that know can enlighten you.

Now time to straighten you out ( as usual  )

A Provincial Grand lodge is not and would never be a Grand Lodge.There is ONLY ONE Grand lodge in England that's why its called a GRAND ( not PROVINCE which falls under the GL) Lodge.There is only ONE Grand Master in England.

A Provincial GM serves at the pleasure of the GM who can remove him whenever he wants, as simple as that.

I have the audacity to doubt all you've said because I am a Freemason while you are not  .You don't go about talking about things you don't know or people would realize how ignorant and uninformed you are, and that ends up making you a foolish liar.

As I also said earlier there is no oath stopping me from identifying myself as  Freemason.I know you wish we had something like that, unfortunately there isn't. oh I forgot, you don't know as you are not a member   .Membership of the Fraternity isn't secret.I've never hidden my membership from anyone and I don't have any reason to.Its people like you that spread nonsense about a group you know nothing about (as demonstrated by your posts in this thread).

quote:
You members of some of the secret societies have been exposed by the British press.  Oh yes!!!  I know what you guys are up to, including the signals that you give, midnight meetings, the sacrifices that MUST be made, the oaths and so on.  I'd advice you to shut your ugly face and go back to your cave and scheme on how to sacrifice a family member's life for money and material gain!.

Name calling only exposes your immaturity.How old are you??If you did your research as you falsely claimed you would know Freemasonry is not connected to human sacrifice or midnight meetings.(well some meetings can stretch for hours, but none begins at midnight).I still need proof of sacrifice by the Freemasons and the expose by the British Press.Anybody can say anything, backing it up is the problem as talk is cheap.

quote:
Talking about membership of the Free Masons, you said in this thread that you are a member of the Free Masons didn't you?  Yeah?  In that case, did you take an oath?  Yes, you must have.  What did the oath specifically tell you?

SECRECY - yeah, secrecy is what the oath tells you to maintain.  That you must NOT let anybody know that you are a member of such a secret society.

What have you been telling us here?  The fact that you are a member of the Free Masons.  Shame on you for having broken the golden rule of your secret society.  It doesn't matter even if you did it under an alias.  The fact is that you've broken a golden rule of the Free Masons.  I think you should be prepared for the consequences, don't you?

You simply are NOT fit to be a member of the Free Masons, that's for sure.

I never took any oath to conceal my membership of the Fraternity.I know because I am member while you are outside wishing you are in.I bet you tried joining and got rejected because you are of dubious character.Go back to writing your 419 letters you fool and while you are it polish your grammar.You don't know how to express yourself much less imparting knowledge to someone.You claimed to have researched, well if this is the result of your research it clearly shows you are a dunce.

One more thing, you didn't give any differing views, you out rightly lied.Its clear who the nitwit is.I might not be a grammar  expert but I know for sure I am better than you at writing or expressing myself.You write like a Seven year old.No English man would hire  a nut case like you.

I am done with this keyboard gangster who has nothing constructive to offer.Crawl back into that dark hole where you rightfully belong.For someone that claims to be educated, you are an ignoramus and a nonentity.I wont help massage your deflated ego.

This guy comes here lying or claiming things that are incorrect and when he is called out on it he starts slinging mud Time to call him out 


You are still not reading my post to make much sense of it, are you? 

I think you are lying.No your post isnt making sense because you are trying to discuss issues with terms you dont know about. Simple and short. Instead of you to admit you goofed you are trying to pull the wool over my eyes


As I said, I am not a Free Mason so don't know what names you guys call your secret meeting places.  I was only relaying what was mentioned to me.  Again, I couldn't see the point in the gentleman lying to me either.  You are the ones that know what you call your dark, dingy secret meeting places - Lodge, Super Lodge, Grand Lodge or whatever.   
You can doubt me as much as you bloody well like.  You think everybody lies like you lot out there.  Typical Nigerian attitude - doubt whatever people say because they themselves can not be trusted.  I wondered when the term 'oga kpata kpata' meant anything other than 'big man'.   

For your information Oga and Oga kpata kpata means two different things .Oga is just a boss while oga kpata kpata is the boss of all bosses, that's why there is a kpata kpata there.The buck stops on his table.Get it into your thick skull, there is a different between uses of those terms, and you used the second one when in your dumb ignorance you meant the first one.So I had to call you out on that.If you don't know the differences between the Masonic terms don't use them to boost you battered ego. BTW if you are not a Freemason you are not in ANY position to discuss anything about it.

Why would anybody want to join a secret society?  What for?  Yeah, what for?  You lot and your bloody secret societies.  The British press exposed you guys years ago and we all know what you are up to.  Don't come here to try and fool people 'cos it was on TV. 

Please tell us, what was the result of the expose by the British press     


Even the son of a Free Mason (or similar, here on this or the Ogboni thread) has rejected your sect.  Any wonder as to why?  You go figure.

There is nothing to figure.He doesn't want to be a member and nobody is going to force him to join.In fact nobody is forced to join.So for reasons best known to him he refused to join. By the way Ogboni and Freemasonry, two totally different groups.Don't use them in the same sentence.


Oh yeah, talking about my English grammar, please point out to me as to where my grammar is incorrect.  I can teach you a lot about English grammar and comprehension, that's for sure.  Ten times more educated than you are as well.

Your sentence structure is wrong and you cant express yourself properly and you lie to boot.Nobody approached you, Its evident from your post.I wont waste my time digging up old posts from you where you are plainly talking over your head.Your writings are like the ramblings of a 6 year old.I wouldn't want to learn English from a teacher like you.You don't have anything to offer in that regard. I've only posted on a few threads on this forum and most are on Masonry, not religion you fool.You don't know anything about me so you cant say for sure if you are more or BETTER educated than myself.

KAPTEN - I noticed that almost all of your postings in this Forum have been about nothing but religion, causing controversy everywhere.  Why don't you do a search on me (if you haven't already done so) and see the difference.  Maybe you should learn to be more thoughtful in dealing with people 'cos all I notice about you is nothing but resentment amongst members. 

Show me one thread where I stirred controversy(apart from letting people know most of the crap they read about Freemasonry is / are wrong and challenge people like you to prove what they say or shut up).You don't see me attacking someones religion because at the end of the day its left to him and his maker to decide if he lived by the ACTUAL tenets of his chosen religion. 

My question still stands:  WHY WOULD ANYBODY WANT TO JOIN A SECRET SOCIETY?

Start a thread on that if you want the answer  and stop hijacking other peoples threads and maybe those in secret societies would tell you, if they are willing to blow their cover 

Nignog:
I thought a freemason wuz a bricklayer

Maybe

"He then went on to say that they were soon going to perform the rite of investiture on him so as to become the head of ALL the Grand Lodges in the UK North West."

"Just the mere thought that this man that I was working with was such an oga kpata kpata in the Free Masons"

Those were your exact words.You tell me what those mean, if not what I concluded. You should express yourself better if you don't want people misunderstanding what you are saying.What did you think "Head of all Grand Lodges in UK NW means You tell me!!What is the Head of a Grand Lodge called wetin be oga Kpata kpata If you dont know something keep quiet or ask those that know to explain to you. Where the hell is UK NW?, in Masonic parlance

You see that's why I said there were things wrong with your post. I didn't say you lied, go back and read my post.Maybe you knew you were lying that's why your guilt blinded you.

Its plain to understand what you wrote and unfortunately for you, you cant delete it, or edit it.Others can read both posts and see who was wrong.

Secondly I said it all depends on what kind of life style you live(d). I didn't call you a criminal. I said if you were one then FM wont be for you, that's what the Oga kpata kpata meant.Go back and read what I wrote and if you truly understand English you would know your claims against me are wrong.

"He was right about you having to change your life style, it all depends on what kind of life style you lived.If you were of dubious character Freemasonry isn't for you. He meant you are going to be upright and shun all crime."

Pray how does that equate to calling you a criminalNot many people can live like that and he wanted you to know what was involved. why do you have your pants in a bunch Who cares if you lived all your life in the UK, that's not the point.

I don't care what ignorant people like you feel about the Fraternity, in fact I wouldn't want to belong to anything with someone with the shallow thinking faculty you have. The only thing I can deduce about you from your post and attitude is you are very shallow.You don't know ANYTHING about me so don't claim to be more righteous than myself.

I wont waste my time with you.Next time write and express yourself clearly if you don't want to be misunderstood.For someone that claims to have lived in the UK for 34 years, your grammar leaves much to be desired.

How dare you !!! I was very civil in my post. No where did I insult you.I think your big problem is you cant comprehend simple English.That is probably why your oga said you wouldn't be able to speak as freely and openly as you presently did.Your incoherent babble convinces me of that.

kiwi992:
Hi All,



I'm not at all sure as to whether or not the Free Masons do evil things as some people here tend to think.

Having said that, I once had the opportunity of joing the Free Masons here in the UK, purely because of my working with one of their top-most members. This gentleman and I worked together in the accountancy practice that he owned. His daughter whom I'd dated in the past, introduced me to her dad, hence the job came about. He and I worked very well together and indeed, got on well, even though I wasn't seeing his daughter at the time.

One day, as we were having lunch together, he said to me that he would like to introduce me to the Free Masons, inorder for me to become a member, if I wanted. He then went on to say that they were soon going to perform the rite of investiture on him so as to become the head of ALL the Grand Lodges in the UK North West.

Whooa! I thought to myself, both scared and mystified at the same time, not quite knowing how to take it all in. Just the mere thought that this man that I was working with was such an oga kpata kpata in the Free Masons, and that he must have sussed me out or indeed, thought highly of me to suggest such a thing to me - a foreigner of Nigerian origin.

Anyway, he asked me to consider the following factors before deciding as to whether to join or not:

That

1. I would have to change my lifestyle (happy-go-lucky, care-free life)
2. Once I'd joined, I wouldn't be able to keep most of my existing friends
3. I wouldn't be able to speak as freely and openly as I presently did

On reaching home, I discussed it with my woman. We then came to the conclusion that it would NOT be wise for me to join. We felt that there were too many unknowns, despite the many advantages of being a member.

One thing I know for sure is that the Free Masons always look after their own and that most of the highly-placed people in the UK are members. That said, I don't ever regret not joining, 'cos I didn't quite know what I was letting myself in for, had I joined.

Anybody thinking of joining such secret societies should think about it most carefully before taking such a major step in the one's life.



kiwi992.

There are many things wrong with your write up.Number one your boss cant possibly be the Grand Master of Freemasons in England.That I know for a fact.He might be holding some other position which you wrongly concluded its the Grand Master.

Two : there is only one regular Grand Lodge in England, one in Scotland and one in Ireland, so which one in the UK are you talking about? He cant be the Grand Master of all three and possibly not any of them.Trust me on this. A Freemason he might be, but not the Grand Master.

He was right about you having to change your life style, it all depends on what kind of life style you lived.If you were of dubious character Freemasonry isn't for you.He meant you are going to be upright and shun all crime.

I don't know what he meant by doing away with your existing friends. As I said above it all depends on what kind of friends you have or had.If they are of dubious character then you wont want to associate with them once you become a Mason.British Freemasonry would kick you out and disgrace you once they know you are a criminal.No two ways about that.Nobody would choose your friends for you( at least for me nobody can tell me who to associate with).I just know that if my friends are dubious I avoid them.Associating with Criminals is frowned upon.

Nobody would tell you what to say and when to say it.He probably meant you would be more reserved and watch your tongue before you speak.Nothing bad about that.There are lots of Nigerians that are Freemasons in Britain so you wont be the first by any stretch.

Freemasonry isn't a secret society, but a society with secrets, just like any other association which you aren't a member of.

Oh, and you can always leave Freemasonry if it isn't your thing.Nobody forces you to remain a member or even join.

Finally bear in mind there are many fake Masonic groups out there.Your boss might be a member of a fake one, who knows as I don't know the practices of those irregular ones.

I said I wont respond to your post again but I wont allow you to mislead anyone here in the name of religion.Your writings further buttresses my points that you are totally ignorant and completely irrational.You really want a world where there isn't :

* free elections;
* free public education;
* freedom of religion;
* freedom of conscience;
* freedom of assembly;
* freedom of the press;
* separation of church and state;
* the allowance of divorce;
* equality before the law;
* and many other rights which are today not only commonly understood to be essential for the human condition, but also the signs of a free and democratic society;

because your Church leaders says so? You want to take us all back to the dark ages when the Catholic Church ruled by inquisition? You like a world where basic freedom is denied??, even Freedom of religion,conscience,assembly Haba.Na wa for you sef.Your mumu too much.

You accused me of many things in your post which by the way is difficult to read as it lacked punctuation.You accused me of picking only one thing from your post and try to discourage people based on that.Well how do you expect me to smartly and intelligently present my case? I would use facts because facts don't lie.If you did some research you would get the facts as I am trying to school you on.Do you expect a house with shaky foundation to stand? Well in case you don't know my strategy is prove you have no foundation and watch your case crumble.I hope you don't expect me to argue foolishly like you that's why I always ask for facts.Talk is cheap and I've heard many things said about Masonry that I know are outright lies.I know this because I am a Freemason while you are not.You cant tell me about a group you don't belong to when all you have to fall back on is hear say.I had openly challenged you to back up your wild assertions with facts because I know they are very hard to refute.You have none that's why you feel bad and outwitted.Its not my fault you came to battle with a Dane gun while I am armed with a Rocket Launcher.

You also said some people on here have begged me to recommend them for membership.You know I have no control over what others want or wish.I haven't recruited or begged anyone here to join Freemasonry.The Masonry I belong to is the same worldwide.I hope you know there are lots of fakes and charlatans claiming to be Masons?There are due processes before you become a Mason and maybe those asking questions of me want information on the real thing.

Those so called high ranking Masons within and without Nigeria that came out with their so called expose, how do you know they are real Masons and what they are saying is even the truth You see you have to be one to know when someone is lying.I read and see many so called exposes and sorry to burst your bubble, many are lies.

For your information there are different types of Freemasonry.Anybody can call himself a Freemason.The Grand Orient of France isn't a regular Masonic body and I don't care about what they say or do as I or the Grand Lodge I belong to are in no way connected to them.The Carbonari is not connected or recognized by regular Masonry. I bet you didn't know there were irregular Masons, lol.These people you are quoting have no connection to the Grand LODGE system of Freemasonry.Grand Lodge Freemasonry is not at war with any religion and as someone else told you there are many Masonic bodies that are strictly Christian in nature.Eliphias Levi did not belong to any lodge under any Grand Lodge.You see your problem is you copy and paste crap you pick online without doing some legwork of yours (trust me I know the site you stole the crap you posted without even trying to find out if what they posted is true).Grand Lodge Masonry and Grand Orient Masonry, very different things all together.Grand Lodge system of Masonry (Antient, Free and Accepted Masons) is the same world wide,be it in Lagos,Ibadan,,Aba,Kaduna,Seoul,Tokyo,New york,London,Moscow,Berlin,Toronto,Sao Paulo,Oslo,Washington DC,Kingston,Beirut,Cairo,Kampala, you get it, every nook and corner of the earth.

FYI Royal Arch Masonry isn't restricted to only Christians. I don't know where you got the trash you posted regarding RA Masonry.Anybody can print anything, though your Vatican would want a world where they controlled the Press and information.

I am done with arguing with this ignorant slowpoke.If you have better things to post do so, if not shut up.Stop trying to sell us that crap on Vatican 1 and 2, they are all the same. I don't need to go into the well documented atrocities either committed or supported by the Vatican.Stop posting your Vatican propaganda crap as if we don't know who the biggest tyrant is.

Unlike you I do my research before I say something.

sancta:
I am happy to be gullible insofar as it would enable me believe the truths of the HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH outside of which no one is saved. Yes, for the Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that freemasonry is evil. Pope Leo XIII: “It is needless now to put the Masonic sects upon their trial. They are already judged; their ends, their means, their doctrines, and their action, are all known with indisputable certainty. Possessed by the spirit of Satan, whose instrument they are, they burn like him with a deadly and implacable hatred of Jesus Christ and of His work; and they endeavor by every means to overthrow and fetter it.” Now, how can she in all her wisdom throughout the ages condemn this sect if it is actually good? Won’t she be judged to be a liar? It’s only the Vatican II sect that tallies with you people. That’s why their so called popes and bishops heaps praise on you people because their church is a den of masons.

As for being anti-masonry, you shouldn’t be surprise at all. He who does not stand with his mother even when she is right is not worthy of the title – SON. Freemasonry is anti- catholic and worst of all anti-Christ (I guess you would also deny this) and you expect me to stand with them? No mason Kapten.

If you infer that I am rude. So be it. For in truth, he or persons and groups whom the devil uses as a bait to drag souls to hell does not deserve any iota of respect whatsoever.

NAIRALANDERS, there are DVD’s that exposes masonry just the way they are. You could check them out on www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com or better still contact me on any one of your choice and I’ll send them to you free of charge. If you feel the information there is incorrect, you could ask the monks on their email mhfm1@aol.com and not one who is brought here to deceive souls. You could also log onto this site http://www.vatican.edu/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html and see this encyclical on freemasonry and then judge for your selves if kapten and his cohorts are right or the Church, which is the pillar and ground of truth is right. Believe me, these people are making themselves known all over the world and appearing as the good “guys” just to deceive people.
Thanks

Its very clear that you are one of the extreme nuts running loose.Your website - www.mostholyfamilymonastry.com is so disorganized and filled with extremist thoughts.Anybody that bothers to check the site would agree with me.You even have the guts to quote a document from Pope Leo xiii whose writing you quoted has been shown to be very anti progressive.
[b]
" Leo is known primarily by two encyclicals, "Rerum Novarum" and "Humanum Genus."

Humanum Genus
The 1884 "Humanum Genus" shocked the democratic world and led to considerable distrust of the Vatican's motives among the free nations, especially the United States where massive and deeply-rooted anti-Catholic bias was generated by the wide distribution the encyclical received. This encyclical, written to condemn the men's fraternal Order known as Freemasonry, in fact condemned those practices that most countries of the free world held to be the bulwarks of democracy and personal liberty.

First, the encyclical divided the world into two camps, the Holy Catholic Church which followed Jesus Christ--and then everyone else who, Leo wrote, followed Satan. This "we/you" mentality infuriated non-Latin Christians and destroyed for decades any possibility of mutual understanding or cooperation, or even dialogue. Then, specifically, Pope Leo went on to attack and condemn

* free elections;
* free public education;
* freedom of religion;
* freedom of conscience;
* freedom of assembly;
* freedom of the press;
* separation of church and state;
* the allowance of divorce;
* equality before the law;
* and many other rights which are today not only commonly understood to be essential for the human condition, but also the signs of a free and democratic society.

Thus, in attempting to condemn Freemasonry (which fraternal Order the Pope unwittingly acknowledged as a society friendly to democracy and dangerous only to despots and dictators), Leo only stirred up and created more hatred and distrust of the Latin Church which was perceived to be the enemy of liberty and democracy. Specifically, the encyclical (and Rome itself) was seen to be anti-American. Because the encyclical has not been repudiated and is still in force, many persons are still wary of dealing with Rome in ecumenical and certain political matters."[/b]

I now know the kind of person you are and wont waste my time with you.My people say if you argue with a fool nobody would know the difference.I am done responding to any post from you on this issue as you dont bother to do proper research and you are just an ignorant fanatic.

skyrollerz:
Hello Nairalanders
freemasonry have been a topic i have always wanted to discuss.i am in a dilemma may be is good or not.i will appreciate any contribution on this topic both from a mason and non mason.

A lot has been posted on this very site about freemasonry by people that know the truth about the fraternity.If you do a search you will get the links.

In a nut shell I will tell you I am a Mason and I am yet to see anything bad about the Freemasonry I belong to.There are lots of information on this topic.

I know a lot of people who are anti Masonic would jump on this thread ( like the first reply you got) and say its evil, without providing facts to buttress their claims which most times is hear say and repeated mantra by people whose motives I don't know.

wakiri:
@ poster: Escape from idolatory,occultism and satanism.

It is crap like this that riles me. How do you know Freemasonry is Idolatry,occultic and satanic, or do you go about throwing words around without SOLID proof

I challenge you to prove your totally false claims or shut up.

I bet you just spew the crap others mouth off with no proof.

This linked video isn't a representation of REGULAR Freemasonry AKA Grand Lodge.Anybody can masquerade as a Freemason and I wont fail to add the fellow in the video doesn't know what hes talking about( probably his own style of Freemasonry)

Unfortunately lots of people get misled by outright lies from people who make up their own theories as they go.

Regular Freemasonry has nothing to do with Egypt.

biina:
So secretive is replaced with being private - semantics.
Bottom line is that there are things that you would prefer the public not to know about.

Privacy and secrecy are not the same thing.It has been said many times the only secrets in freemasonry are the modes of recognition.Trust me down the ages there have been people masking as fake Masons.These are the people that bring bad light to the Fraternity.

Every association and even individuals need privacy and I see nothing wrong with that.

Moyola:
Dun hv evidence! Wot 've heard n seen suggests they are evil!
I meant how they operate there in 9ja!

@ Kapten
Juz out o' interest yeah. . . . Are yu 1 o' d£m?

You see without evidence people can say anything they like and gullible people would believe.I don't really care about what you've heard ( I too have heard those false things and more), its what you've seen I am interested in knowing about.Pray, what is was it you saw and how do you know whatever act you saw was done by Freemasons??.Freemasons in Nigeria are the same worldwide.No difference.Kindly share what you SAW them do in Nigeria.

Oh, and yes I am one of them, and proud of that to boot.Been a Freemason for many years and never saw any of the unfounded and baseless allegations take place.( if you read my posts I already said so).

sancta:
how can someone read all this?Fremason Kapten,Your reply shows how wounded and bitter you are. Of course I expect this because you do know now that there are some out there who knows the true nature of this diabolical society of which you, even though claims to be a member is not fully enlightened about its true nature just like what Theodore Hertzel, the founder of Zionism in 1897 in Switzerland said: “Masonic lodges are established all over the world to help us achieve our independence. Those pigs, the non-jewish masons, will never understand the final objects of masonry.” Hence, they are just useful idiots. Having said that, I don’t have time to argue with you. For my concern is on those innocent souls out there who might be easily deceived by the likes of you people as you are currently doing now. I only weep for  people who will fall for you since Lucifer has taken possession of all of you. i.e. freemasons

I still plead with those in the Vatican II “Catholic” church and others to log onto www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com and see the true catholic faith and know where to stand since the communist and masons have taken over it. There also, you’ll get to understand what Christ means when He said “the gates of hell will not prevail against it” i.e. the church.

I am not wounded neither am I bitter.I am here to state the facts.When you throw accusations be ready to back them up with facts.

I would like proof from YOU that Theodore Hertzel is a member of a regular lodge.

I would also like to know the source of the quotation ascribed to him.(ensure you give the whole shebang and not two lines taken out of context)

I am a Freemason and I am telling you what the Fraternity is and isn't and you a none member is telling me I don't know what I am saying??  

I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything apart from stop spreading lies.I don't know you but from your post I can tell  you are very ignorant,easily gullible,and cant separate facts from fiction and a liar to boot.

Its your type that swallows all that comes their way without objective analysis.

C&P crap that have been long discredited wont do you any good.I know all you anti masons tactics.Facts don't lie.

biina:
I always advise against secretive associations.

Depends on what you mean by secretive associations.All associations have secrets not available to none members.If Freemasonry was that secretive you wont even know it existed.Their meeting places are known .If Masons were breaking the laws of the countries they exist in they would all be thrown in jail.

Check this link :

http://masonicfax.net/secrecy.htm

Any genuine Masons knows Freemasons don't recruit.They don't force people to join.The fact that your father is / was a member doesn't make your membership automatic.You must ask.The maxim is "to be one ask one".There are no sacrifices to be made or given apart from your time to attend meetings and take part in Masonic activities.

The absolute requirements for becoming a Mason are:

    * Be a man, [NOTE: there are other branches of Masonry that accept both men and women, or women only];All regular Grand Lodges recognize Male only Freemasonry
    * At least 21 years old :
    * Have belief in a Supreme Being (of any faith. No particular religion or faith is required or excluded. All are welcome.)

Also:

    * you should be someone who does, or wants to learn to, enjoy the company of other men from all different social classes, faiths, backgrounds, races, countries, etc. Masonry is universal in its ideals.
    * if you are a family man, Masonry considers that your family obligations come FIRST, so you must be sure that:
          o you have the time to participate (usually two or three evenings/month at first for meetings and instruction, and then at least one evening per month for meetings from then on -- often more if you get involved in lodge activities.)
          o you can afford the initiation fees and the annual dues without hardship to yourself or your family.
    * you should be coming to Masonry "of your own free will and accord", to learn to improve yourself and to enjoy the company of other good people, not because someone keeps pestering you to join or because you think it will help you "get ahead" in business.

To join, all you have to do ask a Mason:

    * Preferably someone you know or at least who lives or works nearby:
          o You have to be able to meet him in person.
          o Contacting someone by e-mail may get you pointed to a lodge in your area, but you CANNOT get a recommendation from someone you have never met.

Note that I am talking about REGULAR Masonry world over ( the Grand Lodge).There are spurious and imitative bodies styling themselves to be Masonic.They are not the same thing.

I don't know about other similar organizations so I cant speak about them. Finally the views posted by myself are my own views and are mine alone. Nobody speaks for Masonry.

I am going to try and reply to the few posts after my last one on this issue.I usually don't do research for others, but if its to keep the facts straight I will do so.The only thing I would ask is refrain from vague accusations that cant be backed up.Saying its evil without giving your reasons is,   

Jairzinho:
@Kapten,
Since you are enlightened about this,please be patient enough to educate us.

Rather than say 'most of the things quoted have been discredited',site examples and debunk them,ok?

Are you saying:

1.There's no reference to Lucifer in Masonry?
2.The rites are not similar in anyway to what has been copied & pasted?
3.Manly P. Hall died a freemason?

As far as I know there is no reference to Lucifer in any Masonic ritual I am familiar with. I belong to many masonic bodies and have presided over lots of them.In fact I can count on one hand the bodies I dont belong to or have presided over.Bear in mind nobody speaks for Masonry. In fact no Grand Lodge speaks for the whole body. Your Grand Lodge only speaks for itself.In other words what your Grand Lodge says is only binding to members of its own Grand Lodge.

2) Rites being similar or imitative is certainly not the same as the original.I wont go into the ritual as posted by the other OP, other than to say its not the same with ANY Masonic ritual I am familiar with.There are tons of rituals used in masonic lodges and they are not all the same.Also there are lots of fake rituals that are imitative of Masonry.I have seen instances of rituals quoted out of context.There is no way a none Mason would know if its true or false, because you dont know what the real deal looks like.I can tell you that ritual as posted isnt used in a any regular Masonic Lodge.

3) Manly P Hall died a Mason.The fact you must realize is the books quoted by anti Masons were written many years before he became a Freemason.He was also into many organizations and many of his writings were influenced by these.Does he speak for the Fraternity, certainly not.

links that might be of interest to you: http://masonicfax.net/manlyhall.htm

sucessful1:
@kapten

if i may ask how long have u been a mason and which lodge are u at.i had a very bad experience with them.i say no no to it.my rich dad was a mason,after his dealth was a nitemare and  he was killed by them stupid mason wit their evil magic there in lagos.

I have been a Mason for many years now. How many isn't really a concern for you.I dont need to tell you what Lodge I belong to as it would serve no purpose to you.Just know that I've been a Mason long enough to go through the chairs of most Masonic bodies I belong to, and they are quite a lot. Many of them with no presence in Nigeria.I've never seen anybody or thing sacrificed to any God or Juju.I am in a position to know as I have presided over these Masonic bodies.If you know how Masonry functions you would know nothing can be done in the Lodge or body if the presiding officer isnt present.NOTHING.So trying to input that things were done in my absence is not possible.Trust me on this.

I've visited lodges in all parts of Nigeria ( North,South,east and West) and never saw any of these rumor people believe to be fact.I have also visited lodges in all continents of the world and never withnessed any of these unfounded allegations.

Contrary to what many people believe Masonry doesnt make you rich.Infact there is no magic button to press and get money apart from hard work.I am not rich but comfortable within my own means and struggle like everyone else to pay my bills.

I know of many people that have joined the Fraternity and left disappointed cos there is no money spinning button.

Its not enough to say Masons killed your father.Masons would never do anything like that (at least the Freemasonry I belong to that is present in most civilized countries of the world.)There is no magic or evil in Masonry so I wonder how they would have used some evil means to kill your Father( I really doubt your STORY).

MrCrackles:
Do Freemasons exist in Naija too?

Yes Freemasons exists in Nigeria. In fact they've been in Nigeria since the 1800's. The same White man that brought Christianity also brought Freemasonry. Most of the Colonial Masters and traders were Freemasons.Also a good number of early Nigerian Nationalists were Freemasons.Freemasons are in almost every major city in Nigeria. There lodges are not hidden and in plain view.Membership list is also available for those that really need to see it.The harsh truth is most of the early big Churches in Nigeria were built and maintained by Freemasons.

Moyola:
Freemasons in 9jah?! uhmn! neva knew!

@ topic
Of course 'freemasonry' is evil!

How do they operate anyway?

Do you have any proof that they are evil or you are just repeating what others have been saying without hard evidence?If you dont know what they do or how they operate how can you say they are evil

To wrap up this long post from me I would post a couple of links that you can read. It would answer most of the questions raised here and answer them if you would only read with an open mind.

http://masonicfax.net/manlyhall.htm (explains the Manly P Hall connection)

http://masonicfax.net/christian.htm (answers questions about Masonry and Christianity)

http://masonicfax.net/cults.htm ( answers why Masonry isnt a cult)

http://masonicfax.net/pike.htm ( talks about Albert Pike, one of the authors quoted out of context my those opposed to Masonry)

http://masonicfax.net/funerals.htm ( explains what a Masonic funeral is all about)

http://masonicfax.net/lucifer.htm (tackles that antis views on Lucifer and Masonry.)

http://masonicfax.net/writ-ant.htm ( explores the tactis used by many anti masonic authors,most copying from already discredited sources)

http://masonicfax.net/masonry.htm ( explains what Masonry is all about)

http://masonicfax.net/secrecy.htm ( talks about the so called masonic secrecy)

http://masonicfax.net/luciferian.htm ( same points on Lucifer and Masonry)

http://masonicfax.net/Whatwedo.htm ( what Masons do)

I hope this answers most questions. If not I am prepared to answer more, as long as they are reasonable ones and not some hearsay. I don't respond to that.

Religion the opium of the masses.What do you expect when people have been shackled and lied to for ages.Tell me what has the blood of Jesus got to do with the food you are about to eatFood everyone in that stall ate?

sancta:
I read with utmost dismay the publication in Newswatch magazine of November 24, 2008 on the interview granted Mr. Chukka Ifejika and also the write up on Freemasons. I knew the picture with which he painted this Society was wrong and since then, I had been working on it till now of which I have decided to let the general public through this medium actually see the true face of Freemasonry and if I may still say, just the way it is and also the Catholic church’s position on it since Mr. Ifejika also claimed to be a Catholic though in my own view a member of the Vatican II catholic church since they, the masons and communist have taken over that one. I will prove that in my next write up with newswatch but still urge all to visit this site - www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com and see that there is a great distinction between the true Catholic Church and the Vatican II church claiming to be Catholic and judge for themselves.
He explained that “Freemasonry is a system of morality defined and explained through allegories by both words and signs hence it’s neither a religion nor a secret society and has nothing to do with the Devil because it does not admit agnostic or those who do not believe in God and that they tend to make a bad man a good man and a good man a better man” while claiming at the same time to be cathedral builders.
The fact is that Freemasonry has another purpose which is completely unknown to much of the general public and many of the masons.
Manly P. Hall, a 33rd degree mason in his book, “The Lost Key of The Freemasonry” said “Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity, an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect.” (NOTE: The Lost Key of Freemasonry by Manly P Hall is highly recommended in the leading list of what to buy for Masonic relatives)
Salve Peter Sancta
salvesancta@yahoo.com

If you had bothered to do your research you would find out most of what you used for reference have been long discredited.Manly P.Hall wrote that book before he became a Mason. You just go about C & P what you read from mostly Christian sites that spew the same crap that's been dis proven.

I cant verify the ritual you quoted but I can assure you its not anywhere near the Masonic ritual I know.People have to realize there are many self styled Masonic bodies.You have to know the real from the fake.(I bet you cant since you don't even know the real deal if its staring you in the face).

Most of the nonsense in your copied and pasted post have long been discredited.I don't even need anybody to tell me about Masonry as I am one, and have presided over almost all Masonic bodies(so don't start telling me I don't know cos I am at the bottom).

I wont even bother reading your next post cos I know it will be filled with inconsistencies designed to mislead the reading public.If this is the kind of research and "facts" you would post I would urge everyone to ignore his posts.

Oh and next time when quoting from books quote the whole sentence and not some fragments.This is the technique you and the people running those long discredited sites use.

JJYOU:
no matter how you dress up the devil he always does evil and nasty things. freemason is evil, wicked and twisted. one of the many cults that dont allow justice and peace to reign in nigeria.
how can someone read all this?

As I said in my last post ignorance is the bane of the crap taking Nigeria backwards.What proof do you have that Freemasonry is evil,wicked and twisted? I want hard facts not some nonesense that cant be verified or something said by someone that wants cheap publicity, Facts please or keep quiet.

The thing is a lot of crap have been said about this noble Fraternity that people just swallow what they are fed , hook,line and sinker.

I want to know how they've denied justice and peace to reign in Nigeria.

JJYOU over to you.

Well I have to agree with the last few posts on this topic.There isn't anything Devilish or Satanic about Freemasonry.Its a known fact that people fear what they don't know.The Church and other forms of organized religion isn't helping matters too.I know most of them lie about Freemasonry.Most don't even know what the Fraternity is all about yet they repeat all the crap they hear without even analyzing what the heard or read.

Bastage summed it all up nicely.There is nothing evil about masonry.I know because I am one and proud of it.Ignorance is the greatest setback we as Africans face.