₦airaland Forum

Good = Perfection

Science starts with a foundational assumption that the human senses are accurate, therefore the best test for truth.

@Op explain how scientists take a phemonenon like light to be real??

I believe chickens are controlling the universe and by faith I'm right!

Faith is an unquestioned assumption.

Pastor AIO: The experience of Consciousness cannot be transferred from one person to another yet there is nothing that I am, or anyone else is if asked, more sure of than the fact that I am, and each one respectively is, a conscious being.

I can't be sure if you're a conscious being but I can only vouch for my own consciousness.

My point is that the most certain thing in existence is the least communicable thing. This therefore breaks the presumption that there must be a link between certainty and communicability or consensus of any sort.

The same tools used to authenticate self existence are the same we use to ascertain reality!

There is the art of the self evident.

^^^

There is this intuitive feel about an action having an intrinsic moral value on its own, that its occurence triggers a subconscious moral judgement.

IF God's whims dictates the good and bad, then it goes against our moral antenna. For example, God instructs a genocide or murder, the individual receiving the order will be hesitant and feel that alarm in his head.

Loyalty is seen as a moral obligation, at least in one's philosophy, but within the moral scale is loyalty the highest priority? Sometimes. In some "moralities" self preservation is.

There are Gods, but no universal God.

Yea, I saw thay argument but he locked the theory of natural selection with atheism.

1. Publicity

2. Hatred

3. Darwinism.

4. Having a metaphysical position

This what I could gather

We having little issues with determining what religion really is, so wildly using an adjective (religious) without determining religion will lead to confusion.

So we can't talk about religious rights, neither can it be a defining factor in determining religion.

1. Publicity

2. Hatred

3.

^^
(Y)

Yeah I don't like to be compared with animanls, but we are all atheists!

Ok, that is cleared, atheism is not the religion.

As to evangelical atheism: hatred, publicity and religious rights make a religion?

What is "religious" right??

And Mikhail Bakunin??

^^^

Cos it suggests physical laws are as primordial as God and God had to conform to the laws to birth the universe.

@ frosbel

There are many atheists that hate Communism. Yes its has an atheistic ingredient, I don't think it condemns atheism, because in the first place there are no ethical creeds which all atheists are formally obliged to follow.

Its basically strawman arguments, except if you are proving a belief in the Christian God or other Gods necessarily imposes a moral duty.

Ishilove: Mr. Sceptic—you look up into the great vast sky at the MASTER CLOCK of the universe, which never misses a second—the perfect watch by which we must constantly set all our imperfect man-made watches—and you tell me, ‘That all just HAPPENED! There was no Great Watchmaker! No Master MIND thought out and planned that vast universe, brought it into being, set each star and planet in its own exact place, and started the myriad heavenly bodies coursing through space, each in its prescribed orbit, in its orderly precision. No, it just fashioned itself, put itself together, wound itself up, and started itself running. There was no Intelligence—no planning—NO CREATION—NO GOD!
 
Do you say that to me?
 
If you can, I answer that I do not respect your intelligence. And the God I acknowledge replies to you, ‘The FOOL hath said in his heart, There is no God!’ (Ps. 14:1; 53:1.)
 
If you can look about you, and observe how intelligently PLANNED and executed is everything in nature and in plant and animal life—everything we see except the bungling, botching, polluting of God’s beautiful handiwork by the clumsy hand of God-ignoring-and-rejecting MAN—and then say you doubt the existence of an all-wise, all-knowing, all-powerful Creator GOD, then I do not have much faith either in your rational processes or your sincerity as a seeker of the TRUTH!”

My question, if God had to design the Universe, doesn't that place physical laws above God??

Cos I do get your idea of trying to place God at the top of the pyramid.

Enigma: Thanks. I have many things I could call you but I will desist on this occasion.

Up until now I had not taken you to be a member of the band of LIARS but the above quote is a shameful LIE on your part. Huge shame on you. Point to where I "asserted atheism as a legal backing as religion in Nigeria." (sic)


You know quite well the distinction that I have always drawn between atheism as mere lack of belief in God as with dogs, goats, monkeys etc and active disbelief PLUS evangelism and evangelisation of atheism. What I have always called a religion is evangelical atheism. The courts might have not used the word "evangelical" but it is clear that what they were dealing with was indeed evangelical atheism.

I am sorry if you feel insulted, I meant it in a friendly manner.

I will find the quote.

Yes, I agree with that definition of atheism and its association with animals. The absence of belief in a supernatural being/God, a BLANK slate, a position of NEUTRALITY, a starting point. Therefore for an atheist, the idea of God MUST be introduced rather than an intuitive idea.

With this in mind, would you tag this a religion??

On evangelical atheism, there is no error in saying these are ppl that despise and hate religions with a passion added with propagation of such hatred. Would that be a religion?? By virtue of hatred, or publicity??

Toba has little or no idea of what his god is. He worships a mystery and yet expects everyone else to bow to this mysterious god.

LOOL

Enigma, you are a clown!!

You asserted atheism as a legal backing as religion in Nigeria. When asked for the specific precedent, you FAILED to provide that and further support your argument, but ran off to make a false comparism with scientific theories.

Also you throw too many terms that don't seem to mean the same and treat em the same: atheism and evangelical atheism.

Pastor AIO: By 'present' world I believe that you mean the world as perceived through our senses. If that is true then can you please tell me of any established explanation of the 'present' world that does not rely on an alternate world or on other stuff NOT perceived by the senses.

I can't think of any.

ayobase: Someone said we shld overlook that, and concentrate on the good side....I think shymmex, the oracle of Ifa.
Im getting somethings him!
What about that other religion with a profound negativity, should we overlook?

Identifying the negative and destructive aspect will be difiicult because like most religions, it becomes the new basis of reality.

We consider why Christianity practised in Africa is radically different from the practices in other continents. Also why particular Christian doctrines appeal to us, like Trinity?

At best, Spirituality is the deep dissatisfactory curiosity of a man.

At worst, the perception of an alternate world to explain the present one.

Are african religions substituted?? NO. There was merely a change in form. The substance of the traditional beliefs was simply imported into the foreign religions, modified to suit our taste.

We still partake in sacrifices in whatever form, we beseech our gods and concerned in maintaining a harmonious relationship, our priests/pastors still play the role of the spiritual leadership and conscience.

And we don't have so much of an abstracted being.

Great effort frosbel! Now we can discuss.

1. The usefulness of faith

2. The validity of the authority of the bible

3. The validity of Christianity as the one and true religion.

Darwinsim as creationist call it, is in direct opposition with a literal reading of the bible, as a result must be discredited by first of all Faith

Microevolution stand is a byproduct of the untenable position of claiming God created with all firmly and don't change.

However, Darwin did confirm this changes occurred among living organisms and these are so dramatic as a new species emerges.

NOTE: biological classification don't end and start with species and genera, the similarity between all organisms is overwhelming, there is a great deal of difficulty and challenge in classifying organisms under genus. My question to you is: what restricts organisms from evolving out of a genus with changes that will warrant an emergence of a new genus just as in the species level.

Sorry, I don't know the scientific equivalent of kind, but species come to mind.

The theory of evolution is known to satisfy scientific requirements and have wide support and appreciation from majority of the scientists. The theory seems to contradict a literal reading of the bible.

The fact that the Devil delved into Evil, suggests he is imperfect

Gender is defined by humans, its not preprogrammed.

What are you trying to prove with the Lagos law??

Enigma: I am assuming you mean the Roman Catholic Church. It is very common to see such a statement as yours nowadays, especially in the Internet age when false information is so easily and widely spread and preferred by many people at the expense of a rigorous examination of the truth.

First of all, the Roman Catholic church is certainly not responsible for the creation of the Bible.

Secondly when it comes to compilation, where the misleading impression that it was the action of the Roman Catholic Church is more common, you will have to deal with a number of important points on the history of the universal* Christian Church. {*Note that 'catholic' simpliciter really means 'universal' --- again an important point you will have to address}

Questions you will have to address include:

- What is the Roman Catholic Church?
- When did the Roman Catholic Church come into existence?
- Is the Roman Catholic Church, which is also called the C[/i]atholic Church (note the capital 'C'), the same thing as the c[/b]atholic Church (note the small 'c')?
- Was it really the [i]Roman Catholic Church aka the C[/i]atholic Church that preserved and "compiled" the Bible or was it the [b]c[/b]atholic Church?
- What is the effect of the East-West Schism that finally eventuated in the [b]11th century on our understanding of that which is known as the [i]Roman Catholic Church or the [i]C[/i]atholic Church?

The Catholic Church aka the universal Church was more or less the recognized and official Christianity, it believed its infallible and the only mouthpiece of Christ. It would be misleading to believe there were no divergent Christianities.

The Schism in my view, simply is a breakout by the present Orthodox Church. The present Church is not substantially different from the Church prior to the schism. Same organisation, same capital, same doctrines it touted then.

canuck: Tell them!

For the life of me, I don't know why anytime TROUBLE dey sleep GEJ go carry YANJA go wake am!

A population of 160 Million is only a problem to a cluess govt - Go ask what the US is doing with their 312 Million - Put 160 Million people to work/business/enterprise and Nigeria will be among the greatest nations on earth!!!

I say again: Shagg!ng and breeding are the poor man's solace in Nigeria. . .And you want to mess with that?!!

You have to consider the size of the country, its economy, literacy rate, and whether we can feed ourselves adequately. 160 million is too much.

Kinds is not a scientific/biological term, thus the resulting vagueness. You would need to clarify that.

I know you mentioned the bible, but its not a foundational basus for science, so why consult it in the first place??

^^^
On the contrary, its the lack/absence of fairness/equity that triggers off dissatisfaction, rebellion, violence, conflicts etc. We as humans see ourselves as the same with superficial differences like skin colour.

Its a fatal error of Islam to assign social roles on the basis of biological reproductive duties, its a sign of an outdated, ancient mode of thought. Its equal to the basis for racism: skin colour.

Women think, conceived goals and ideas as much as men do, its imperfect to place them below men.

Love is universal, but its love that makes us treat our neighbours as ourselves.

Liberalize birth control methods. eg abortion.

francis247: Good move. But they should take more realistic steps towards improving the living standard and wellbeing of the already existing populace for God sake.

That would take years and decades, however overpopulation strains the little economy and govt resources. I think its an immediate problem, so needs immediate solutions.