SirJohn:
@Gombs,
Good, I see you have tactically evaded my question and I'd like to infer that you do not have the answer.

Like I said earlier, let me pretend to agree with you that Kenyan28 was healed at the healing school.
She stayed 'healed' until she got married in Dec 2010, I remember then she kept making 'faith proclamations'. She later got pregnant, carried the baby for nine months and was still 'healed', she gave birth to her child and was still healed.

When did her doubts start?

Her baby started showing signs of illness and even then she still did not know what was wrong. When her baby was tested, the result was shocking [b]HIV+ How??


How could a HIV negative mother who conceived a child after testing negative give birth to a HIV positive child?

is it not therefore safe to conclude that the mother was HIV positive all the while? What does this say about the test in Randburg that turned out negative? its very simple, it was a [b]'false negative' result. I dare say that if a follow up test had been carried out in a Lab it most certainly would have turned out positive. But Kenyan28 never did any other test even after several warnings till her baby was tested positive, if that was not an act of 'faith' tell me what else is.
[/b]


Just in case you didn't know, the type of test she did that turned out to be negative has some degree of inaccuracy and incidence of false negatives. please take time out to read this:



Again I ask you Gombs, if some of us came here back in 2010 and warned her of this kind of outcome and even accurately predicted the turn of events, don't you think it goes to show we know something you don't? please give it a thought!





So except anyone wants to be dishonest, it is clear that this lady was lured into accepting a false hope but God intervened.

@Gombs, your interview didn't reveal anything new, it only brought out the facts that we all know which is that Kenyan28 has had three different stance on this one isssue.

First - "I was healed...I know I am healed"

Secondly - "Why is the healing not permanent?... I was healed"

And then lastly - "I was not healed"

I honestly wonder why the progression of her stance is an issue to you as this is the normal progression of stance for anyone who has been scammed. I will give you an example, I once invested in a dubious pyramid scheme, but at the time I invested in it, I had no idea it was a scam. I remember the CBN even did a full page warning in one of the national daily's warning people not to invest their funds in the scheme. But I felt the CBN was just blabbing; I read testimonies of different people who supposedly made a fortune out of the scheme so I bought in completely to it. At one time, one of the schemes paid me 300% on an investment and I said wow, this must be real, I later invested over a million naira into the scheme and decided to wait for my returns. 4 weeks, 6 weeks, 10 weeks passed yet no returns. Some of my friends who warned me later started asking if I had received my profit; of course I made excuses for the company. I told them payments were delayed due to backlog of previous payments. gradually, weeks turned into months and it gradually began to sink in that I had just been a victim of one of the worlds oldest scam, 'the pyramid scheme.' Today, I have absolutely no doubt in my heart that I was scammed.
You see, its the same progression of stance; if tomorrow someone who heard me defend the scheme comes to me with a similar business proposal and I say, 'No, sorry I can't invest, I did it before and I was scammed' will he say oh but you said it wasn't a scam back then?

You told her to confess her 'faith', she did and now you've turned against her pulling out the same confessions you taught her to say which I warned her about.

The conclusion is very simple and I don't think I will waste another time discussing this in details again. She was never healed because if she was, her child would not have turned out to be positive. For her child to have tested positive, it means the mother was positive for the virus. SIMPLE!

Boss13:


This fake pastor is really annoying. There is no need to call the guy because YOU CANNOT HEAL SOMEONE WITH HIV. Secondly, try to be smart next time by using the same person when pretending to perform miracles. You are a fraud joagbaje and I can prove it and if you, yourself do not know or understand that you are a fraud then your case is a mental one and you should be roommates with lunatics.

Gombs post=/post/26107083:

... Kunle o! Anyways,

7 things to know about Pastor Chris Oyakhilome

Before you can talk down my Pastor,you must have done the following:

1. Publish a daily devotional of 423 languages circulated in 352 countries and territories and price is #150 since a decade with impeccable print

2. Train and develop leaders and Pastors who are capable to do what you do.

3. Hold a crusade which gathered over 2.5million people in just one night.

4. Take hundreds of homeless,abandoned and helpless children off the street and send them to school without charity support, but partnership of brethren.

5. Organise an annual conference for Ministers outside your ministry from all around the world

6. Conduct healing program for sick people without collecting a fee.

7. Several annual community development services and projects for countries without the government's financial support

?.... you have not been able to win you tithe debate on nl, and yet you hating! Wait for the details, am typing it from the video...might even put up the youtube video after am done uploading... no get Hypertension o

WinsomeX:

Is it not laughable that while your opening statement is premised on an "if", the rest of your post is based on the certainty that what mbaemeka wrote is true. An "if" statement should also permit an "if not" too, don't you think? However, since your statement is clearly biased there is little or nothing one can say here to change your mind.

But let me make it clear to you that anyone who reads the account of the Kenyan cannot but agree that she is telling the truth. Most of us have very little at stake on this matter. She had her life hanging on the precipice. She could have lost it, if not for God's mercy. I am thankful to God she is alive to testify to the falsehood in Christ Embassy today.



I am not sure of which of my statement you are referring to but everything I have said here has been to buttress the Kenyan's position. Lest you find it difficult to comprehend me, SirJohn took the effort to explain the psyche of the deceived. Don't forget that this is a woman suffering a lifelong illness. She needed healing and could be desperate. She seeks help and sought CE. Like SJ said, she went through three stages of: "I'm healed in Jesus Name" in consonance with the faith jargon she had been taught. Then "I do not seem to be healed; what's happening to me", when the reality of the fact that the healing did not happen. The WOF folks here will have us believe she sinned or stopped having faith. But this is clearly not true as she continually "faithed", even keeping correspondence with a cancer patient who was also prayed for at the HS, who was encouraging her faith too but who is long dead now.

Then she reached her final point: "I was never healed at CE HS". This position was reached out of the trauma of not just seeing her HIV status restored but almost loosing her daughter to the illness. She also has many friends who attended the HS, who either are long dead or still suffering illnesses. She obviously couldn't continue the fraud. And she had nothing to loose in telling the truth.



Vooks has spoken already in the post above.



Well, I hope you see this in your mention.

On a final note here, I want to ask the Kenyan to get one or more of those she claims also attended the CE HS to come and give their own testimony here. We will look for a way to verify their claims and possibly provide medical records too. Hopefully that will put an end to all this.

But I doubt it will. My reason: the Christ Embassy Church is proving more and more to me to be a cult following than a church organization. If the wife of the leader, who lives with him and should know him, can say that Pastor Chris is committing adultery and we have the same set of people who are here defending his spurious claim to miraculous healing, defending a clear allegation by his own wife, it's clear that these people have lost their capacity to think. And anything that pours out of the lips of their idol is what they will believe. So, quite naturally, if Chris will have them believe that healing is occurring at the HS, no proof in heaven or earth will change their minds.

Kenyan28 can you make those provisions?

Gombs:

I answered your question, I answered thus


My answer was linked to the commentary, how then did you conclude the question wasn't answered? Oh, you did not see what you liked, shebi?

Email her to gist you about her life after healing, prior to marriage, then after child birth, then other personal details. The child turned positive because the mother was? [b],[b]what about the husband? Was he using condoms or they had artificial insemination, or he was very careful to [/b]slee with a HIV patient? his faith must be strong sha o! Now, be a gentle man and answer my question, is it possible to loose one's healing? If yes, why? If no, explain John 5:14 pls.

The interview was not to give you or her new facts, but to lay them bare for readers who missed the whole things in years past. I wish she did not delete most posts...that too is a pointer you know?

Gombs:

Cry me a river!

Gombs: Viewing this topic: AlfaSelltzer, Gombs(m), WinsomeX, Seun(m), LambanoPeace, PastorKun(m)

Baba, mo wa loyal gan!

I dobaale joor

AlfaSelltzer:

Hmm, who minds explaining the above underlined for me.

Gombs, are you sure you aren't a lawyer?

Gombs:

Thanks buddy! Folks mailing thinking I'm actually a lawyer
I'm glad some thinking caps are finally on. How your RON be na?

WinsomeX: If the author of that commentary means what you want us to believe, then you and your commentator are in error. And you can be because you are human and fallible.

The contention until you brought up the commentary on John 5 was whether a healing can be lost. You provided that scripture and the commentary to prove your point that healing can be lost or in other words, there can be a relapse of the illness. My point, along with others, is that John 5 where Jesus said something worse does not mean a loss of healing or a relapse. Something worse means some other worse thing, other than that illness, can befall the individual.

This points must be properly thrashed out because you are looking for a lame excuse for why Chris failed to heal the Kenyan. This was the same idiotic excuse Joagbaje brought forth when she first came saying she was not healed. Now, even if for a second we accept that the Kenyan lost her healing to sin; what about all the others, many of whom are dead now? They also returned to their sins?

You guys are pathetic!

Joagbaje:

If I collect money you will complain, if I don't , you will complain



Why don't you sponsor her ? Why should I waste money on someone who doesn't believe . I preach the gospel , and signs and wonders accompany it . I don't need to prove anything to a mocker . I presented an HIV case that was healed here . I dare all of you to investigate it . Go to the federal medical centre . And expose my lie . I somehow think you guys knows I'm right but pride will not allow you to admit . If not somebody should have investigated this testimony .

vooks: There is another mbaemeka guy
Says that he will never fall sick, that Just as Christ took away our sins yet we still fall into occasional sin, a Christian may fall sick. Challenged since death still persists despite Christ sacrifice, he insists that death is an 'enemy' and that Jesus has keys of death and hades so he will seek mbaemeka's consent before taking him home. So, if you will never be sick yet you can get sick, you are saying nothing. You have absolutely NOTHING on a cussing atheist when it comes to health or prosperity. Those things are just dangled at gullible Christians to rip them off

Fact of the matter is in this fallen world, Christians will succumb to poverty,disease and death just as the next pagan

Please take your time and read this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents
Very rich

ubarikiwe dada

vooks: @Kenyan28,
There are standard excuse for no healing
1. The miracle seeker never had 'enough' faith to command healing virtue from the hem of Jesus garment
2. The miracle seeker is a sinner

Of course you were 'confessing' healing as instructed to at the healing School despite anything suggesting that you were not healed. You were probably discouraged from performing further HIV tests since further tests are 'lack of faith'
When a further HIV test (on your baby) became inevitable, you discovered you still had the virus
That your husband turned negative proves that he never reinfected you with the virus after your supposed 'healing'

Don't put it beyond Christ Embassy hooligans to claim that you got reinfected after your 'healing'

SirJohn:

Thanks for the compliment, now its your turn to be a gentleman
I asked you a question, answer my question first then I'll answer yours. Its okay if you don't have the answer to the question, just get off your high horse and simply say "I don't know" period

Gombs:

Was this what I wrote or what you saw I wrote?



That's what cops do, a change in tone, and especially stories gives one up. You've told your stories in different forms, and if asked in another 4 years time, you'd still change stand. I did not bother reply DB (your counsellor) because he only gave reasons why your tone should change, and why you are where you are now, regretting-playing the public sympathybcard again, if this were a court room, his post is what we'd call slam dunk in basket ball for the persecution counsel.

I'm not saying you are a coward, I actually admire your ability to change stories, you think you've answered all my questions? Ok, let's leave that for future viewers to decide. Now, one final question session ma'am.

Are you of the opinion that the healing school is a scam base? If yes, like you preseumed, would you take an oath, between you and God who judges all and say confidently, without an iota of doubt, that nothing spiritual and healing takes place there?

I await your answer, which I hope won't be vague as the rest.

Gombs:

Sir, Please she hasn't, well... before that, let me give a prelude to the answer.

John 5:14
But afterward Jesus found him in the Temple and told him, "Now you are well; so stop sinning, or something even worse may happen to you.


1. A man got healed
2. Jesus said the above to him

I want to ask, is it then possible from the above, that one can lose a healing miracle? From the above, why is it possible?

Gombs:

Was this what I wrote or what you saw I wrote?



That's what cops do, a change in tone, and especially stories gives one up. You've told your stories in different forms, and if asked in another 4 years time, you'd still change stand. I did not bother reply DB (your counsellor) because he only gave reasons why your tone should change, and why you are where you are now, regretting-playing the public sympathybcard again, if this were a court room, his post is what we'd call slam dunk in basket ball for the persecution counsel.

I'm not saying you are a coward, I actually admire your ability to change stories, you think you've answered all my questions? Ok, let's leave that for future viewers to decide. Now, one final question session ma'am.

Are you of the opinion that the healing school is a scam base? If yes, like you preseumed, would you take an oath, between you and God who judges all and say confidently, without an iota of doubt, that nothing spiritual and healing takes place there?

I await your answer, which I hope won't be vague as the rest.

Gombs:

Ok ma'am, I'd wait too...would also love an interview with her.

Gombs:

Was this what I wrote or what you saw I wrote?



That's what cops do, a change in tone, and especially stories gives one up. You've told your stories in different forms, and if asked in another 4 years time, you'd still change stand. I did not bother reply DB (your counsellor) because he only gave reasons why your tone should change, and why you are where you are now, regretting-playing the public sympathybcard again, if this were a court room, his post is what we'd call slam dunk in basket ball for the persecution counsel.

I'm not saying you are a coward, I actually admire your ability to change stories, you think you've answered all my questions? Ok, let's leave that for future viewers to decide. Now, one final question session ma'am.

Are you of the opinion that the healing school is a scam base? If yes, would you take an oath, between you and God who judges all and say confidently, without an iota of doubt, that nothing spiritual and healing takes place there?

I await your answer, which I hope won't be vague as the rest.


The bottom line is you and I clearly know that there is no healing in CE/HS no matter how much we talk.

Gombs: Wow! Tis been a tough day, glad to be back.

After careful reading of investigative books and watching their movies, I can confidently say I learnt alot to experiment on you. Your sudden change in tone and indirect calling for an end to the interview proves one thing- a desperate attempt to reconcile past staments with current. I can't say you are lying, but I can confidently say you are fsr from the truth.

Kunle' s post was an answer to a question he asked me, and it was not used to support my questions, the posts you posted were however to support your answer which did no address the corresponding quesion. You used it to play the regret card, a stunt a prosecution counsel would immediately object and the judge would sustain it, why it is inadmissible in any sane courtroom.

Your personal attack on the interviewer or persecution counsel is a game changer, it proves something, likened to the scene of a drowning man who needs every strain of hope to stay alive.

I remember vividly where you gave answers, 5 for a 4 question thing, and you gave a reason, that was a lady in high morale, but the last part of today's post where you indirectly raised a white flag is also worth noting, remember, we aren't trying to convince each other here.

As for the Romania you met, how come you didn't share this in all the six years the thread has been on? If you did, please show me them, I'd need to scrutinise the post. However, let's move on as you as usual dodged the question, "what your experience was in the healing school".

Second to the last questin ma'am, feel free to walk away any time...

[size=16pt]The fact is, there was healing [/size] that was short lived not to mention about my cancer long dead friends.My question is, why isnt it permanent?
https://www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school/49#12742073


The above bold got me thinking, did you lie about the above bold too? For obviously you were not in the Window period, but an experienced person living with H I V as you described yourself in another post, the enlarged though is very striking, can you explain what the above bold and enlarged meant? Were you also paranoid when you typed them?

Gombs: Wow! Tis been a tough day, glad to be back.

After careful reading of investigative books and watching their movies, I can confidently say I learnt alot to experiment on you. Your sudden change in tone and indirect calling for an end to the interview proves one thing- a desperate attempt to reconcile past staments with current.

Gombs:

Please, do not interfere in the interview, I'd answer just this one....Nice one buddy, see the one I mean, holla if you need more.


https://www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school/42#7695625

Gombs:

I only brought up your posts, and I spoke to you about them in the mail I sent you, why being crafty now? You actually told me what I wanted to hear....a change of stance , and playing the had-I-known card!

Anyways, my next question is, you said in time pass that you knew you were healed, but didn't know why it didn't last, and now, you are saying you were never healed. Alright, but Like Sir John, did you also notice the scam he 'saw' at the HSSA? You said you were healed without a touch from Pastor Chris, can you please furnish us with brief but well detailed writ about your experience at the HSSA?

Gombs:

I only brought up your posts, and I spoke to you about them in the mail I sent you, why being crafty now? You actually told me what I wanted to hear....a change of stance , and playing the had-I-known card!

Anyways, my next question is, you said in time pass that you knew you were healed, but didn't know why it didn't last, and now, you are saying you were never healed. Alright, but Like Sir John, did you also notice the scam he 'saw' at the HSSA? You said you were healed without a touch from Pastor Chris, can you please furnish us with brief but well detailed writ about your experience at the HSSA?

Gombs:

Because you didn't attempt to answer the last two articulately, but rather brought up posts of someone else and wallow in 'had-I-Known.

It's gonna be a long day for me... it's Reach Out Nigeria 2014, I've gotta be on the streets, but will breeze in at intervals

Gombs:

3 more ma'am, we would continue tomorrow. thanks

Gombs:

Ok ma'am, you were symptoms free for 13months, right? Within which you made posts and praised Jesus right? If yes, then how does this reconcile with what you said here?


https://www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school/53#12786741

If you were symptoms free, does that make the virus invisible to tests, or Randburg with a good population of HIV folks now has stock pile of expired kits? It begs to differ that if you weren't healed as you are now claiming, and also the kits were expired, and you were symptoms free... and yet you were so sure you were healed, you even attacked those who dared challenged your healing.

Explain this then...


Were you really paranoid as SirJohn suggested then?

Thank you

Gombs:

Please, do not interfere in the interview, I'd answer just this one....Nice one buddy, see the one I mean, holla if you need more.


https://www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school/42#7695625