Word of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine and Proponents

This thread intends to look seriously at the Word of Faith Movement's proponents, its doctrinal positions on a number of issues, other related matters  and to what extent such positions line up with the Bible. Each of WoF's doctrinal position, personalities and practices will be examined in the light of clear Biblical understanding. It is hoped that at the end of the day people visiting this thread will have a better picture of what the WoF movement stands for and make their decisions accordingly. Many, even within the Word of Faith churches, may be unaware of some of the doctrinal positions of the movement. The information that will be provided in this thread should open their eyes to those doctrinal positions. 

The beliefs and practices of the Word of Faith Movement include, but are not limited to, the following:
1. Faith in faith or Faith as a force. 
2. Guaranteed health. 
3. Wealth/Prosperity. 
4. The deification of man: the view that Christians are little god.  
5. The Distortion of the Cross. 
6. etc. 

The Word of Faith Movement (WoF), also known simply as  "Faith" movement has become a very visible segment of professing Christianity in recent years. Personalities within the movement have become even more well-known and influential than leaders of main stream denominations. It is therefore not out of place that the teachings of a movement that hasn't gone unnoticed  even by the secular world be examined under the light of the Word of God. 

Faith in faith or Faith as a force

One of the foundational teachings generally held by WoF Movement is that of "Faith in faith".
 
Faith, they believe, is a force that can be used to create the reality the individual wants. The faith concept used is that of 'positive confession' where if the individual speaks "faith-filled" words he can get what he wants. 

The WoF movement believes that faith works like a great power or energy. Through that "faith", anyone can get anything he wants: health, wealth, success, anything. However, this "faith energy" or "force" is only released through the spoken word. Only by speaking the words of faith is power released to bring about the person's wishes. 

The emphasis is on saying, 'seeing' or visualizing and doing whatever thing necessary (e.g. telling others) that will make you receive your wish. They believe once you 'plug in' correctly then you are bound to 'receive it'. In essence it is the individual's actions that bring about whatever he wants. God has set the "laws" in motion and stands apart from them letting the "laws" work on their own for whoever discovers and applies the correct steps. The generally held view of the movement is that the spoken word correctly expressed (positively expressed) releases power to actualize whatever reality one wants. This is where the title " Positive Confession" is also often put on this movement. 

Statements by some WoF preachers
Kenneth Copeland: “Faith is a power force. It is a tangible force. It is a conductive force.”
Kenneth Copeland: “The force of faith is released by words. Faith-filled words put the law of the Spirit of life into operation.”
Charles Capps: “These principles of faith are based on spiritual laws. They work for whosoever will apply these laws.”
Kenneth Hagin:  “Believe it in your heart; say it with your mouth. That is the principle of faith. You can have what you say.”

^^^
What was it posted that got the post above hidden?

Addendum to original post and/or original poster's.

Other practices of Word of Faith Movement (i.e. WoF) are:

F6: JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually)
F7: Holy Ghost Laughter along with slain in the spirit
F8: Tithing
F9: Name it.. Claim it...
F10: Name-a-Seed or Seed Faith
F11: Staged leg lengthening healing
F12: Fake healing schools
F13: Merchandising the Gospel
F14: Personalising the Gospel
F15: Fee paying crusades or seminars
F16: Hyped up motivational hustling preaching
F17: Obtaining pecuniary advantage(s) by deception

religion serves only one purpose, to enslave humans and prevent them from mental & TRUE spiritual growth.

BabaGnoni:

Addendum to original post and/or original poster's

Other practices of Word of Faith Movement (i.e. WoF) are:
F6: JDS (i.e Jesus Died Spiritually)
F7; Holy Ghost Laughter along with slain in the spirit
F8: Tithing
F9: Name it.. Claim it...
F10: Name-a-Seed or Seed Faith
F11: Staged leg lengthening healing
F12: Fake healing schools
F13: Merchandising the Gospel
F14: Personalising the Gospel
F15: Fee paying crusades or seminars
F16: Hyped up motivational hustling preaching
F17: Obtaining pecuniary advantage(s) by deception

And my additions:

F18: How Hagin plagiarized Kenyon
F19: The pervasive influence of WOF on Nigerian churches
F20: The true biblical teaching on faith
F21: Word of Faith Despises God's Sovereignty

So let's go there...

I was initially not very enthusiastic about re starting a WOF thread following the disappearance of the first one to... However, with the opening of this new one, I shall be giving my full support to it. Some have chosen to see the disappearance of Word of Faith: Their Moment of Truth as God's judgement on the thread. It simply betrays the simplistic nature of the way their minds work. I however see this new thread as a blessing. The other one was too verbose and too abusive. This new one, will treat the issues straight on. trustman has supplied a list in the first post. I request that you, sir, modify that list and rename them F1, F2,...., F5. BabaGnoni has also supplied another list, I request that you name them F6, F7,... and so on. We can then take each one after the other and do thorough discussion on them. F will represent Faith.

I do not expect WOF adherents to grace this thread following the way and manner they left the last one, but if they wish to, they are welcome. We only request decorum and use of proper language fitting saints. Some had issues with me using words like false prophets, another gospel, liars, wolfs, etc, in the last thread. I used those words as scripture used them. If this is the manner you wish to use your words, you are welcome, we only request you point us to the scriptural reference you are relying on for this.

The OP was quite clear about the need to discuss WOF today. I will not rehearse that. However, I want to point out that most people who come out to state the errors in WOF are not doing it to witch hunt anyone, rather we do it as God places demand on us and many times out of grief deep in our hearts. I am of the opinion that the state of Nigeria should be blamed on WOF. This gospel fits our mentality so well, and its the reason we are becoming its leading exporter of missionaries around the world.

I will still be relying on write ups from the internet. Its not enough to just say the write ups are cultic, we should also supply evidences for this. In my next post, I will treat the subject of Faith in faith as we resume again a richer discussion on the Subject of Word of Faith.

The links below provide the reader the first post on each item being discussed. Readers should note that following each link are other posts on the same topic by the trio of trustman, BabaGnoni and DrummaBoy.


F1, FAITH IN FAITH: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24336662

F2, GUARANTEED HEALTH: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24363909

F3, THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/2#24470530

F4, DEIFICATION OF MAN: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/4#24525863

F5, THE DISTORTION OF THE CROSS: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/5#24622666

F6, JESUS DIED SPIRITUALLY: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/5#24701718

F7, HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/6#24810984

F8, TITHING: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/7#24975239

F9, NAME IT, CLAIM IT DOCTRINE: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/8#25164252

F10: SEED FAITH: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/12#25322281

F11: STAGED LEG LENGHTENING: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/12#25433864

F12: FAKE HEALING SCHOOL: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/13#25637320

F13: MERCHANDIZING THE GOSPEL: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/21#25894946

F14: PERSONALIZING THE MINISTRY https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/23#26113280

F15: FEE PAYING CRUSADES AND SEMINARS: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/23#26676201

F16: HYPED UP MOTIVATIONAL HUSTLING PREACHING: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/25#27125546

Discussions still ongoing. Destination point being F20.

No breathing space for WOF charlatans and their deluded adherents

Nice one @drummaboy and trustman the work of exposing wolves amongst us is a critical task that must be accomplished. Keep up the good work.

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

I introduce to you my first exhibit on the subject of force of faith, Napoleon Hill. I shall be showing how the concept of a force of faith is more in keeping with New Thoughts practice than scriptures. This is what wikipedia says of Hill:

Napoleon Hill (October 26, 1883 – November 8, 1970) was an American author in the area of the new thought movement who was one of the earliest producers of the modern genre of personal-success literature. He is widely considered to be one of the great writers on success.[1] His most famous work, Think and Grow Rich (1937), is one of the best-selling books of all time (at the time of Hill's death in 1970, Think and Grow Rich had sold 20 million copies).[2] Hill's works examined the power of personal beliefs, and the role they play in personal success. He became an advisor to President Franklin D. Roosevelt from 1933 to 1936. "What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve" is one of Hill's hallmark expressions.[3][4] How achievement actually occurs, and a formula for it that puts success in reach of the average person, were the focal points of Hill's books.

Key points:

1. A New Thought teacher

2. His famous quote: "What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve"

Note a chapter from his book in my next post and compare these to what WOF teachers preach. I am compelled to reproduce the whole chapter. For those who find the long text difficult to read, you may skimp through reading the bolded.

CHAPTER 3

[size=16pt]FAITH: VISUALIZATION OF, AND BELIEF IN ATTAINMENT OF DESIRE[/size]

The Second Step toward Riches

by NAPOLEON HILL from his book THINK AND GROW RICH

FAITH is the head chemist of the mind. When FAITH is blended with the vibration of thought, the subconscious mind instantly picks up the vibration, translates it into its spiritual equivalent, and transmits it to Infinite Intelligence, as in the case of prayer.

The emotions of FAITH, LOVE, and SEX are the most powerful of all the major positive emotions. When the three are blended, they have the effect of "coloring" the vibration of thought in such a way that it instantly reaches the subconscious mind, where it is changed into its spiritual equivalent, the only form that induces a response from Infinite Intelligence.

Love and faith are psychic; related to the spiritual side of man. Sex is purely biological, and related only to the physical. The mixing, or blending, of these three emotions has the effect of opening a direct line of communication between the finite, thinking mind of man, and Infinite Intelligence.

HOW TO DEVELOP FAITH

There comes, now, a statement which will give a better understanding of the importance the principle of auto-suggestion assumes in the transmutation of desire into its physical, or monetary equivalent;


namely: FAITH is a state of mind which may be induced, or created, by affirmation or repeated instructions to the subconscious mind, through the principle of auto-suggestion.

As an illustration, consider the purpose for which you are, presumably, reading this book. The object is, naturally, to acquire the ability to transmute the intangible thought impulse of DESIRE into its physical counterpart, money. By following the instructions laid down in the chapters on auto-suggestion, and the subconscious mind, as summarized in the chapter on auto-suggestion, you may CONVINCE the subconscious mind that you believe you will receive that for which you ask, and it will act upon that belief, which your subconscious mind passes back to you in the form of "FAITH," followed by definite plans for procuring that which you desire.

The method by which one develops FAITH, where it does not already exist, is extremely difficult to describe, almost as difficult, in fact, as it would be to describe the color of red to a blind man who has never seen color, and has nothing with which to compare what you describe to him. Faith is a state of mind which you may develop at will, after you have mastered the thirteen principles, because it is a state of mind which develops voluntarily, through application and use of these principles.

Repetition of affirmation of orders to your subconscious mind is the only known method of voluntary development of the emotion of faith.

Perhaps the meaning may be made clearer


through the following explanation as to the way men sometimes become criminals. Stated in the words of a famous criminologist, "When men first come into contact with crime, they abhor it. If they remain in contact with crime for a time, they become accustomed to it, and endure it. If they remain in contact with it long enough, they finally embrace it, and become influenced by it."

This is the equivalent of saying that any impulse of thought which is repeatedly passed on to the subconscious mind is, finally, accepted and acted upon by the subconscious mind, which proceeds to translate that impulse into its physical equivalent, by the most practical procedure available.

In connection with this, consider again the statement, ALL THOUGHTS WHICH HAVE BEEN EMOTIONALIZED, (given feeling) AND MIXED WITH FAITH, begin immediately to translate themselves into their physical equivalent or counterpart.

The emotions, or the "feeling" portion of thoughts, are the factors which give thoughts vitality, life, and action. The emotions of Faith, Love, and Sex, when mixed with any thought impulse, give it greater action than any of these emotions can do singly.

Not only thought impulses which have been mixed with FAITH, but those which have been mixed with any of the positive emotions, or any of the negative emotions, may reach, and influence the subconscious mind.

From this statement, you will understand that the subconscious mind will translate into its physical equivalent, a thought impulse of a negative or destructive nature, just as readily as it will act upon thought impulses of a positive or constructive nature. This accounts for the strange phenomenon which so many millions of people experience, referred to as "misfortune," or "bad luck."

There are millions of people who BELIEVE themselves "doomed" to poverty and failure, because of some strange force over which they BELIEVE they have no control. They are the creators of their own "misfortunes," because of this negative BELIEF, which is picked up by the subconscious mind, and translated into its physical equivalent.

This is an appropriate place at which to suggest again that you may benefit, by passing on to your subconscious mind, any DESIRE which you wish translated into its physical, or monetary equivalent, in a state of expectancy or BELIEF that the transmutation will actually take place. Your BELIEF, or FAITH, is the element which determines the action of your subconscious mind. T[size=16pt]here is nothing to hinder you from "deceiving" your subconscious mind when giving it instructions through autosuggestion[/size], as I deceived my son's subconscious mind.

To make this "deceit" more realistic, conduct yourself just as you would, if you were ALREADY IN POSSESSION OF THE MATERIAL THING WHICH YOU ARE DEMANDING, when you call upon your subconscious mind.

media available, any order which is given to it in a state of BELIEF, or FAITH that the order will be carried out.

Surely, enough has been stated to give a starting point from which one may, through experiment and practice, acquire the ability to mix FAITH with any order given to the subconscious mind. Perfection will come through practice. It cannot come by merely reading instructions.

If it be true that one may become a criminal by association with crime, (and this is a known fact), it is equally true that one may develop faith by voluntarily suggesting to the subconscious mind that one has faith. The mind comes, finally, to take on the nature of the influences which dominate it. Understand this truth, and you will know why it is essential for you to encourage the positive emotions as dominating forces of your mind, and discourage--and eliminate negative emotions.

A mind dominated by positive emotions, becomes a favorable abode for the state of mind known as faith. A mind so dominated may, at will, give the subconscious mind instructions, which it will accept and act upon immediately.

FAITH IS A STATE OF MIND WHICH MAY BE INDUCED BY AUTO-SUGGESTION

All down the ages, the religionists have admonished struggling humanity to "have faith" in this, that, and the other dogma or creed, but they have failed to tell people HOW to have faith. They have not stated that "faith is a state of mind, and that it may be induced by self-suggestion."

p. 71

In language which any normal human being can understand, we will describe all that is known about the principle through which FAITH may be developed, where it does not already exist.

Have Faith in yourself; Faith in the Infinite. Before we begin, you should be reminded again that:

FAITH is the "eternal elixir" which gives life, power, and action to the impulse of thought!

The foregoing sentence is worth reading a second time, and a third, and a fourth. It is worth reading aloud!

FAITH is the starting point of all accumulation of riches!

FAITH is the basis of all "miracles," and all mysteries which cannot be analyzed by the rules of science!

FAITH is the only known antidote for FAILURE!

FAITH is the element, the "chemical" which, when mixed with prayer, gives one direct communication with Infinite Intelligence.

FAITH is the element which transforms the ordinary vibration of thought, created by the finite mind of man, into the spiritual equivalent.

FAITH is the only agency through which the cosmic force of Infinite Intelligence can be harnessed and used by man.

EVERY ONE OF THE FOREGOING STATEMENTS IS CAPABLE OF PROOF!

The proof is simple and easily demonstrated. It is wrapped up in the principle of auto-suggestion. Let us center our attention, therefore, upon the subject of self-suggestion, and find out what it is, and what it is capable of achieving.

It is a well known fact that one comes, finally, to BELIEVE whatever one repeats to one's self, whether the statement be true or false. If a man repeats a lie over and over, he will eventually accept the lie as truth. Moreover, he will BELIEVE it to be the truth. Every man is what he is, because of the DOMINATING THOUGHTS which he permits to occupy his mind. Thoughts which a man deliberately places in his own mind, and encourages with sympathy, and with which he mixes any one or more of the emotions, constitute the motivating forces, which direct and control his every movement, act, and deed!

Comes, now, a very significant statement of truth:

THOUGHTS WHICH ARE MIXED WITH ANY OF THE FEELINGS OF EMOTIONS, CONSTITUTE A "MAGNETIC" FORCE WHICH ATTRACTS, FROM THE VIBRATIONS OF THE ETHER, OTHER SIMILAR, OR RELATED THOUGHTS. A thought thus "magnetized" with emotion may be compared to a seed which, when planted in fertile soil, germinates, grows, and multiplies itself over and over again, until that which was originally one small seed, becomes countless millions of seeds of the SAME BRAND!

The ether is a great cosmic mass of eternal forces of vibration. It is made up of both destructive vibrations and constructive vibrations. It carries, at all times, vibrations of fear, poverty, disease failure, misery; and vibrations of prosperity, health, success, and happiness, just as surely as it carries the sound of hundreds of orchestrations of music, and hundreds of human voices, all of which maintain their own individuality, and means of identification, through the medium of radio.

From the great storehouse of the ether, the human mind is constantly attracting vibrations which harmonize with that which DOMINATES the human mind. Any thought, idea, plan, or purpose which one holds in one's mind attracts, from the vibrations of the ether, a host of its relatives, adds these "relatives" to its own force, and grows until it becomes the dominating, MOTIVATING MASTER of the individual in whose mind it has been housed.

Now, let us go back to the starting point, and become informed as to how the original seed of an idea, plan, or purpose may be planted in the mind. The information is easily conveyed: any idea, plan, or purpose may be placed in the mind through repetition of thought. This is why you are asked to write out a statement of your major purpose, or Definite Chief Aim, commit it to memory, and repeat it, in audible words, day after day, until these vibrations of sound have reached your subconscious mind.

We are what we are, because of the vibrations of thought which we pick up and register, through the stimuli of our daily environment.

Resolve to throw off the influences of any unfortunate environment, and to build your own life to ORDER. Taking inventory of mental assets and liabilities, you will discover that your greatest weakness is lack of self-confidence. This handicap can be surmounted, and timidity translated into courage, through thof the principle of autosuggestion. The application of this principle may be made through a simple arrangement of positive thought impulses stated in writing, memorized, and repeated, until they become a part of the working equipment of the subconscious faculty of your mind.

SELF-CONFIDENCE FORMULA

First.

I know that I have the ability to achieve the object of my Definite Purpose in life, therefore, I DEMAND of myself persistent, continuous action toward its attainment, and I here and now promise to render such action.

Second.

I realize the dominating thoughts of my mind will eventually reproduce themselves in outward, physical action, and gradually transform themselves into physical reality, therefore, I will concentrate my thoughts for thirty minutes daily, upon the task of thinking of the person I intend to become, thereby creating in my mind a clear mental picture of that person.

Third.

I know through the principle of auto-suggestion, any desire that I persistently hold in my mind will eventually seek expression through some practical means of attaining the object back of it, therefore, I will devote ten minutes daily to demanding of myself the development of SELF-CONFIDENCE.


[b]Fourth.

I have clearly written down a description of my DEFINITE CHIEF AIM in life, and I will never stop trying, until I shall have developed sufficient self-confidence for its attainment.

Fifth.

I fully realize that no wealth or position can long endure, unless built upon truth and justice, therefore, I will engage in no transaction which does not benefit all whom it affects. I will succeed by attracting to myself the forces I wish to use, and the cooperation of other people. I will induce others to serve me, because of my willingness to serve others. I will eliminate hatred, envy, jealousy, selfishness, and cynicism, by developing love for all humanity, because I know that a negative attitude toward others can never bring me success. I will cause others to believe in me, because I will believe in them, and in myself.

I will sign my name to this formula, commit it to memory, and repeat it aloud once a day, with full FAITH that it will gradually influence my THOUGHTS and ACTIONS so that I will become a self-reliant, and successful person.[/b]

Back of this formula is a law of Nature which no man has yet been able to explain. It has baffled the scientists of all ages. The psychologists have named this law "auto-suggestion," and let it go at that.

The name by which one calls this law is of little importance. The important fact about it is--it [paragraph continues] WORKS for the glory and success of mankind, IF it is used constructively. On the other hand, if used destructively, it will destroy just as reading this statement may be found a very significant truth, namely; that those who go down in defeat, and end their lives in poverty, misery, and distress, do so because of negative application of the principle of auto-suggestion. The cause may be found in the fact that ALL IMPULSES OF THOUGHT HAVE A TENDENCY TO CLOTHE THEMSELVES IN THEIR PHYSICAL EQUIVALENT.

The subconscious mind, (the chemical laboratory in which all thought impulses are combined, and made ready for translation into physical reality), makes no distinction between constructive and destructive thought impulses. It works with the material we feed it, through our thought impulses. The subconscious mind will translate into reality a thought driven by FEAR just as readily as it will translate into reality a thought driven by COURAGE, or FAITH.

The pages of medical history are rich with illustrations of cases of "suggestive suicide." A man may commit suicide through negative suggestion, just as effectively as by any other means. In a midwestern city, a man by the name of Joseph Grant, a bank official, "borrowed" a large sum of the bank's money, without the consent of the directors. He lost the money through gambling. One afternoon, the Bank Examiner came and began to check the accounts. Grant left the bank, took a room in a local hotel, and when they found him, three days later, he was lying in bed, wailing and moaning, repeating over and over these words, "My God, this will kill me! I cannot stand the disgrace." In a short time he was dead. The doctors pronounced the case of "mental suicide."

Just as electricity will turn the wheels of industry, and render useful service if used constructively; or snuff out life if wrongly used, so will the law of auto-suggestion lead you to peace and prosperity, or down into the valley of misery, failure, and death, according to your degree of understanding and application of it.

[b]If you fill your mind with FEAR, doubt and unbelief in your ability to connect with, and use the forces of Infinite Intelligence, the law of auto-suggestion will take this spirit of unbelief and use it as a pattern by which your subconscious mind will translate it into its physical equivale[/b]nt.

THIS STATEMENT IS AS TRUE AS THE STATEMENT THAT TWO AND TWO ARE FOUR!

Like the wind which carries one ship East, and another West, the law of auto-suggestion will lift you up or pull you down, according to the way you set your sails of THOUGHT.

The law of auto-suggestion, through which any person may rise to altitudes of achievement which stagger the imagination, is well described in the following verse:

"If you think you are beaten, you are,
If you think you dare not, you don't
If you like to win, but you think you can't,
It is almost certain you won't. p. 78
"If you think you'll lose, you're lost
For out of the world we find,
Success begins with a fellow's will--
It's all in the state of mind.

"If you think you are outclassed, you are,
You've got to think high to rise,
You've got to be sure of yourself before
You can ever win a prize.

"Life's battles don't always go
To the stronger or faster man,
But soon or late the man who wins
Is the man WHO THINKS HE CAN!"

Observe the words which have been emphasized, and you will catch the deep meaning which the poet had in mind.

Somewhere in your make-up (perhaps in the cells of your brain) there lies sleeping, the seed of achievement which, if aroused and put into action, would carry you to heights, such as you may never have hoped to attain.

Just as a master musician may cause the most beautiful strains of music to pour forth from the strings of a violin, so may you arouse the genius which lies asleep in your brain, and cause it to drive you upward to whatever goal you may wish to achieve.

Abraham Lincoln was a failure at everything he tried, until he was well past the age of forty. He was a Mr. Nobody from Nowhere, until a great experience came into his life, aroused the sleeping genius within his heart and brain, and gave the

Abraham Lincoln was a failure at everything he tried, until he was well past the age of forty. He was a Mr. Nobody from Nowhere, until a great experience came into his life, aroused the sleeping genius within his heart and brain, and gave the world one of its really great men. That "experience" was mixed with the emotions of sorrow and LOVE. It came to him through Anne Rutledge, the only woman whom he ever truly loved.

It is a known fact that the emotion of LOVE is closely akin to the state of mind known as FAITH, and this for the reason that Love comes very near to translating one's thought impulses into their spiritual equivalent. During his work of research, the author discovered, from the analysis of the lifework and achievements of hundreds of men of outstanding accomplishment, that there was the influence of a woman's love back of nearly EVERY ONE OF THEM. The emotion of love, in the human heart and brain, creates a favorable field of magnetic attraction, which causes an influx of the higher and finer vibrations which are afloat in the ether.

If you wish evidence of the power of FAITH, study the achievements of men and women who have employed it. At the head of the list comes the Nazarene. Christianity is the greatest single force which influences the minds of men. The basis of Christianity is FAITH, no matter how many people may have perverted, or misinterpreted the meaning of this great force, and no matter how many dogmas and creeds have been created in its name, which do not reflect its tenets.

The sum and substance of the teachings and the achievements of Christ, which may have been interpreted as "miracles," were nothing more nor less than FAITH. If there are any such phenomena as "miracles" they are produced only through the state of mind known as FAITH! Some teachers of religion, and many who call themselves Christians, neither understand nor practice FAITH.

[b]Let us consider the power of FAITH, as it is now being demonstrated, by a man who is well known to all of civilization, Mahatma Gandhi, of India. In this man the world has one of the most astounding examples known to civilization, of the possibilities of FAITH. Gandhi wields more potential power than any man living at this time, and this, despite the fact that he has none of the orthodox tools of power, such as money, battle ships, soldiers, and materials of warfare. Gandhi has no money, he has no home, he does not own a suit of clothes, but HE DOES HAVE POWER. How does he come by that power?

HE CREATED IT OUT OF HIS UNDERSTANDING OF THE PRINCIPLE OF FAITH, AND THROUGH HIS ABILITY TO TRANSPLANT THAT FAITH INTO THE MINDS OF TWO HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE.

Gandhi has accomplished, through the influence of FAITH, that which the strongest military power on earth could not, and never will accomplish through soldiers and military equipment. He has accomplished the astounding feat of INFLUENCING two hundred million minds to COALESCE AND MOVE IN UNISON, AS A SINGLE MIND.[/b]
[size=16pt]
What other force on earth, except FAITH could do as much?[/size]

There will come a day when employees as well as employers will discover the possibilities of FAITH. That day is dawning. The whole world has had ample opportunity, during the recent business depression, to witness what the LACK OF FAITH will do to business.

Surely, civilization has produced a sufficient number of intelligent human beings to make use of this great lesson which the depression has taught the world. During this depression, the world had evidence in abundance that widespread FEAR will paralyze the wheels of industry and business. Out of this experience will arise leaders in business and industry who will profit by the example which Gandhi has set for the world, and they will apply to business the same tactics which he has used in building the greatest following known in the history of the world. These leaders will come from the rank and file of the unknown men, who now labor in the steel plants, the coal mines, the automobile factories, and in the small towns and cities of America.

Business is due for a reform, make no mistake about this! The methods of the past, based upon economic combinations of FORCE and FEAR, will be supplanted by the better principles of FAITH and cooperation. Men who labor will receive more than daily wages; they will receive dividends from the business, the same as those who supply the capital for business; but, first they must GIVE MORE TO THEIR EMPLOYERS, and stop this bickering and bargaining by force, at the expense of the public. They must earn, the right to dividends!

Moreover, and this is the most important thing of all--THEY WILL BE LED BY LEADERS WHO WILL UNDERSTAND AND APPLY THE PRINCIPLES EMPLOYED BY MAHATMA GANDHI. Only in this way may leaders get from their followers the spirit of FULL cooperation which constitutes power in its highest and most enduring form.

This stupendous machine age in which we live, and from which we are just emerging, has taken the soul out of men. Its leaders have driven men as though they were pieces of cold machinery; they were forced to do so by the employees who have bargained, at the expense of all concerned, to get and not to give. The watchword of the future will be HUMAN HAPPINESS AND CONTENTMENT, and when this state of mind shall have been attained, the production will take care of itself, more effectively than anything that has ever been accomplished where men did not, and could not mix FAITH and individual interest with their labor.

Because of the need for faith and cooperation in operating business and industry, it will be both interesting and profitable to analyze an event which provides an excellent understanding of the method by which industrialists and business men accumulate great fortunes, by giving before they try to get.

The event chosen for this illustration dates back to 1900, when the United States Steel Corporation was being formed. As you read the story, keep in mind these fundamental facts and you will understand how IDEAS have been converted into huge fortunes.

First, the huge United States Steel Corporation was born in the mind of Charles M. Schwab, in the form of an IDEA he created through his IMAGINATION! he mixed FAITH with his IDEAThird, he formulated a PLAN for the transformation of his IDEA into physical and financial reality. Fourth, he put his plan into action with his famous speech at the University Club. Fifth, he applied, and followed-through on his PLAN with PERSISTENCE, and backed it with firm DECISION until it had been fully carried out. Sixth, he prepared the way for success by a BURNING DESIRE for success.

If you are one of those who have often wondered how great fortunes are accumulated, this story of the creation of the United States Steel Corporation will be enlightening. If you have any doubt that men can THINK AND GROW RICH, this story should dispel that doubt, because you can plainly see in the story of the United States Steel, the application of a major portion of the thirteen principles described in this book.

This astounding description of the power of an IDEA was dramatically told by John Lowell, in the New York World-Telegram, with whose courtesy it is here reprinted.

"A PRETTY AFTER-DINNER SPEECH FOR A BILLION DOLLARS

"When, on the evening of December 12, 1900, some eighty of the nation's financial nobility gathered in the banquet hall of the University Club on Fifth Avenue to do honor to a young man from out of the West, not half a dozen of the guests realized they were to witness the most significant episode in American industrial history.

"J. Edward Simmons and Charles Stewart Smith, their hearts full of gratitude for the lavish hospitality bestowed on them by Charles M. Schwab during a recent visit to Pittsburgh, had arranged the dinner to introduce the thirty-eight-year-old steel man to eastern banking society. But they didn't expect him to stampede the convention. They warned him, in fact, that the bosoms within New York's stuffed shirts would not be responsive to oratory, and that, if he didn't want to bore the Stilimans and Harrimans and Vanderbilts, he had better limit himself to fifteen or twenty minutes of polite vaporings and let it go at that.

"Even John Pierpont Morgan, sitting on the right hand of Schwab as became his imperial dignity, intended to grace the banquet table with his presence only briefly. And so far as the press and public were concerned, the whole affair was of so little moment that no mention of it found its way into print the next day.

"So the two hosts and their distinguished guests ate their way through the usual seven or eight courses. There was little conversation and what there was of it was restrained. Few of the bankers and brokers had met Schwab, whose career had flowered along the banks of the Monongahela, and none knew him well. But before the evening was over, they--and with them Money Master Morgan--were to be swept off their feet, and a billion-dollar baby, the United States Steel Corporation, was to be conceived.

"It is perhaps unfortunate, for the sake of history, that no record of Charlie Schwab's speech at the dinner ever was made. He repeated some parts of it at a later date during a similar meeting of Chicago bankers. And still later, when the Government brought suit to dissolve the Steel Trust, he gave his own version, from the witness stand, of the remarks that stimulated Morgan into a frenzy of financial activity.

"It is probable, however, that it was a 'homely' speech, somewhat ungrammatical (for the niceties of language never bothered Schwab), full of epigram and threaded with wit. But aside from that it had a galvanic force and effect upon the five billions of estimated capital that was represented by the diners. After it was over and the gathering was still under its spell, although Schwab had talked for ninety minutes, Morgan led the orator to a recessed window where, dangling their legs from the high, uncomfortable seat, they talked for an hour more.

"The magic of the Schwab personality had been turned on, full force, but what was more important and lasting was the full-fledged, clear-cut program he laid down for the aggrandizement of Steel. Many other men had tried to interest Morgan in slapping together a steel trust after the pattern of the biscuit, wire and hoop, sugar, rubber, whisky, oil or chewing gum combinations. John W. Gates, the gambler, had urged it, but Morgan distrusted him. The Moore boys, Bill and Jim, Chicago stock jobbers who had glued together a match trust and a cracker corporation, had urged it and failed. Elbert H. Gary, the sanctimonious country lawyer, wanted to foster it, but he wasn't big enough to be impressive. Until Schwab's eloquence took J. P] Morgan to the heights from which he could visualize the solid results of the most daring financial undertaking ever conceived, the project was regarded as a delirious dream of easy-money crackpots.

"The financial magnetism that began, a generation ago, to attract thousands of small and sometimes inefficiently managed companies into large and competition-crushing combinations, had become operative in the steel world through the devices of that jovial business pirate, John W. Gates. Gates already had formed the American Steel and Wire Company out of a chain of small concerns, and together with Morgan had created the Federal Steel Company. The National Tube and American Bridge companies were two more Morgan concerns, and the Moore Brothers had forsaken the match and cookie business to form the 'American' group--Tin Plate, Steel Hoop, Sheet Steel--and the National Steel Company.

"But by the side of Andrew Carnegie's gigantic vertical trust, a trust owned and operated by fifty-three partners, those other combinations were picayune. They might combine to their heart's content but the whole lot of them couldn't make a dent in the Carnegie organization, and Morgan knew it.

"The eccentric old Scot knew it, too. From the magnificent heights of Skibo Castle he had viewed, first with amusement and then with resentment, the attempts of Morgan's smaller companies to cut into his business. When the attempts became too bold, Carnegie's temper was translated into anger and retaliation. He decided to duplicate every mill owned by his rivals. Hitherto, he hadn't been interested in wire, pipe, hoops, or sheet. Instead, he was content to sell such companies the raw steel and let them work it into whatever shape they wanted. Now, with Schwab as his chief and able lieutenant, he planned to drive his enemies to the wall.

"So it was that in the speech of Charles M. Schwab, Morgan saw the answer to his problem of combination. A trust without Carnegie--giant of them all--would be no trust at all, a plum pudding, as one writer said, without the plums.

"Schwab's speech on the night of December 12, 1900, undoubtedly carried the inference, though not the pledge, that the vast Carnegie enterprise could be brought under the Morgan tent. He talked of the world future for steel, of reorganization for efficiency, of specialization, of the scrapping of unsuccessful mills and concentration of effort on the flourishing properties, of economies in the ore traffic, of economies in overhead and administrative departments, of capturing foreign markets.

"More than that, he told the buccaneers among them wherein lay the errors of their customary piracy. Their purposes, he inferred, had been to create monopolies, raise prices, and pay themselves fat dividends out of privilege. Schwab condemned the system in his heartiest manner. The shortsightedness of such a policy, he told his hearers, lay in the fact that it restricted the market in an era when everything cried for expansion. By cheapening the cost of steel, he argued, an ever-expanding market would be created; more uses for steel would be devised, and a goodly portion of the world trade could be captured. Actually, though he did not know it, Schwab was an apostle of modern mass production.

"So the dinner at the University Club came to an end. Morgan went home, to think about Schwab's rosy predictions. Schwab went back to Pittsburgh to run the steel business for 'Wee Andra Carnegie,' while Gary and the rest went back to their stock tickers, to fiddle around in anticipation of the next move.

"It was not long coming. It took Morgan about one week to digest the feast of reason Schwab had placed before him. When he had assured himself that no financial indigestion was to result, he sent for Schwab--and found that young man rather coy. Mr. Carnegie, Schwab indicated, might not like it if he found his trusted company president had been flirting with the Emperor of Wall Street, the Street upon which Carnegie was resolved never to tread. Then it was suggested by John W. Gates the go-between, that if Schwab 'happened' to be in the Bellevue Hotel in Philadelphia, J. P. Morgan might also 'happen' to be there. When Schwab arrived, however, Morgan was inconveniently ill at his New York home, and so, on the elder man's pressing invitation, Schwab went to New York and presented himself at the door of the financier's library.

"Now certain economic historians have professed the belief that from the beginning to the end of the drama, the stage was set by Andrew Carnegie--that the dinner to Schwab, the famous speech, the Sunday night conference between Schwab and the Money King, were events arranged by the canny Scot. The truth is exactly the opposite. When Schwab was called in to consummate the deal, he didn't even know whether 'the little boss,' as Andrew was called, would so much as listen to an offer to sell, particularly to a group of men whom Andrew regarded as being endowed with something less than holiness. But Schwab did take into the conference with him, in his own handwriting, six sheets of copper-plate figures, representing to his mind the physical worth and the potential earning capacity of every steel company he regarded as an essential star in the new metal firmament.

"Four men pondered over these figures all night. The chief, of course, was Morgan, steadfast in his belief in the Divine Right of Money. With him was his aristocratic partner, Robert Bacon, a scholar and a gentleman. The third was John W. Gates whom Morgan scorned as a gambler and used as a tool. The fourth was Schwab, who knew more about the processes of making and selling steel than any whole group of men then living. Throughout that conference, the Pittsburgher's figures were never questioned. If he said a company was worth so much, then it was worth that much and no more. He was insistent, too, upon including in the combination only those concerns he nominated. He had conceived a corporation in which there would be no duplication, not even to satisfy the greed of friends who wanted to unload their companies upon the broad Morgan shoulders. Thus he left out, by design, a number of the larger concerns upon which the Walruses and Carpenters of Wall Street had cast hungry eyes.

"When dawn came, Morgan rose and straightened his back. Only one question remained.

"'Do you think you can persuade Andrew Carnegie to sell?' he asked.

"'I can try,' said Schwab.

"'If you can get him to sell, I will undertake the matter,' said Morgan.

"So far so good. But would Carnegie sell? How much would he demand? (Schwab thought about $320,000,000). What would he take payment in? Common or preferred stocks? Bonds? Cash? Nobody could raise a third of a billion dollars in cash.

"There was a golf game in January on the frost-cracking heath of the St. Andrews links in Westchester, with Andrew bundled up in sweaters against the cold, and Charlie talking volubly, as usual, to keep his spirits up. But no word of business was mentioned until the pair sat down in the cozy warmth of the Carnegie cottage hard by. Then, with the same persuasiveness that had hypnotized eighty millionaires at the University Club, Schwab poured out the glittering promises of retirement in comfort, of untold millions to satisfy the old man's social caprices. Carnegie capitulated, wrote a figure on a slip of paper, handed it to Schwab and said, 'all right, that's what we'll sell for.'

"The figure was approximately $400,000,000, and was reached by taking the $320,000,000 mentioned by Schwab as a basic figure, and adding to it $80,000,000 to represent the increased capital value over the previous two years.

"Later, on the deck of a trans-Atlantic liner, the Scotsman said ruefully to Morgan, 'I wish I had asked you for $100,000,000 mo
"'If you had asked for it, you'd have gotten it,' Morgan told him cheerfully.

* * * * * * *

"There was an uproar, of course. A British correspondent cabled that the foreign steel world was 'appalled' by the gigantic combination. President Hadley, of Yale, declared that unless trusts were regulated the country might expect 'an emperor in Washington within the next twenty-five years.' But that able stock manipulator, Keene, went at his work of shoving the new stock at the public so vigorously that all the excess water--estimated by some at nearly $600,000,000--was absorbed in a twinkling. So Carnegie had his millions, and the Morgan syndicate had $62,000,000 for all its 'trouble,' and all the 'boys,' from Gates to Gary, had their millions.

* * * * * * *

"The thirty-eight-year-old Schwab had his reward. He was made president of the new corporation and remained in control until 1930."

The dramatic story of "Big Business" which you have just finished, was included in this book, because it is a perfect illustration of the method by which DESIRE CAN BE TRANSMUTED INTO ITS PHYSICAL EQUIVALENT!

I imagine some readers will question the statement that a mere, intangible DESIRE can be converted into its physical equivalent. Doubtless some will say, "You cannot convert NOTHING into SOMETHING!" The answer is in the story of United States Steel.

That giant organization was created in the mind of one man. The plan by which the organization was provided with the steel mills that gave it financial stability was created in the mind of the same man. His FAITH, his DESIRE, his IMAGINATION, his PERSISTENCE were the real ingredients that went into United States Steel. The steel mills and mechanical equipment acquired by the corporation, AFTER IT HAD BEEN BROUGHT INTO LEGAL EXISTENCE, were incidental, but careful analysis will disclose the fact that the appraised value of the properties acquired by the corporation increased in value by an estimated SIX HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS, by the mere transaction which consolidated them under one management.

[b]In other words, Charles M. Schwab's IDEA, plus the FAITH with which he conveyed it to the minds of J. P. Morgan and the others, was marketed for a profit of approximately $600,000,000. Not an insignificant sum for a single IDEA!

What happened to some of the men who took their share of the millions of dollars of profit made by this transaction, is a matter with which we are not now concerned. The important feature of the astounding achievement is that it serves as unquestionable evidence of the soundness of the philosophy described in this book, because this philosophy was the warp and the woof of the entire transaction. Moreover, the practicability of the philosophy has been established by the fact that the United States Steel Corporation prospered, and became one of the richest and most powerful corporations in America, employing thousands of people, developing new uses for steel, and opening new markets; thus proving that the $600,000,000 in profit which the Schwab IDEA produced was earned. RICHES begin in the form of THOUGHT!

The amount is limited only by the person in whose mind the THOUGHT is put into motion. FAITH removes limitations! Remember this when you are ready to bargain with Life for whatever it is that you ask as your price for having passed this way.[/b]

Remember, also, that the man who created the United States Steel Corporation was practically unknown at the time. He was merely Andrew Carnegie's "Man Friday" until he gave birth to his famous IDEA. After that he quickly rose to a position of power, fame, and riches.

From http://www.sacred-texts.com/nth/tgr/tgr08.htm

[size=16pt]Below I shall discuss why Napoleon Hill's "thinking", which forms the overarching gospel of WOF, is unbiblical and thoroughly New Age.[/size]

Very interesting. Thanks Drummaboy for bringing up Napoleon Hill. It shows us how the WOF movement is more fluffy new age motivational speech than it is Christian. It is sad that many of our brethren have been deceived in this way.


The one that annoys me are the con-men who promise people God's gift for a fee. The fact that these guys get away with this nonsense simply shows that many church goers are not reading their bibles.

Mr_Anony: Very interesting. Thanks Drummaboy for bringing up Napoleon Hill. It shows us how the WOF movement is more fluffy new age motivational speech than it is Christian. It is sad that many of our brethren have been deceived in this way.


The one that annoys me are the con-men who promise people God's gift for a fee. The fact that these guys get away with this nonsense simply shows that many church goers are not reading their bibles.

Thank you Mr Anony.

I'm glad to be back!

For the usually unknown reason(s) I was sent on leave from NL.
I had posted a second message after my opening words which I initially saw published but later on suddenly 'disappeared'. I think BabaGnoni noticed it.

Thanks to Drummaboy, BabaGnoni and others who kept the flow of the thread going.

Hopefully concentrating on each discussion item will make for more focussed deliberations and understanding by participants and viewers.

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

I introduce to you another exhibit on the subject of force of faith (i.e. Word of Faith Tree of life)

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

I introduce to you another exhibit on the subject of force of faith (i.e. Word of Faith Tree of life)

Isize=16pt]MY SUBMISION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

On Napoleon Hill - 

A look at Napoleon Hill's statement (or is it definition?) on FAITH shows that he refers to FAITH as a state of mind which may be induced, or created, by affirmation or repeated instructions to the subconscious mind, through the principle of autosuggestion. 
Notice he said it is induced, or created by affirmation or repeated instructions to the subconscious mind. 
Notice also how it is done - through the principle of autosuggestion. Now, autosuggestion is defined by the dictionary to be "influencing of one's own attitudes, behavior, or physical condition by mental processes other than conscious thought: self-hypnosis". 
In all these: affirmation, repeated instructions (to the subconscious mind), autosuggestion, the focus is on the individual and what he can achieve using the 'mind'. 

According to him "Repetition of affirmation of orders to your subconscious mind is the only known method of voluntary development of the emotion of faith". 
So, to him, repetitive affirmations (declarations) to the subconscious mind develops faith. But how did the Bible say faith comes?
When he says "All thoughts which have been ... ... mixed with faith, begin immediately to translate themselves into their physical equivalent or counterpart" he means the actions in the mind bring about the physical realities the person who uses this faith principle desires. 
So to him, the subconscious mind is that through which "any desire you wish (is) translated into its physical, or monetary equivalent". He goes on then to say that it is "in a state of expectancy or BELIEF that transmutation will actually take place"
In all these, it is man that is at work in his mind to create whatever realities he wants. 
To Napoleon Hill FAITH is what brings about the desired realities. Not faith in God but faith in FAITH. Just develop faith, exercise it, use it and you will get what you want. 
He says also that "This is why you are asked to write out a statement of your major purpose, or Definite Chief Aim, commit it to memory, and repeat it, in audible words, day after day, until these vibrations of sound have reached your subconscious mind". 
So we see here that 'vibrations of sounds' getting to the subconscious are what is relied upon. Do you see how this ties up with the 'power of the spoken word' of WoF?

He states that "this formula is a law of Nature which no man has yet been able to explain. It has baffled the scientist of all ages. The psychologists have named this law " autosuggestion", and let it go at that ... ... ... The name by which one calls this law is of little importance. The important fact about it is ... ... ... it WORKS for the glory and success of mankind, if it is used constructively". 
We see here that the faith he talks about is a formula or a 'law of Nature'. It is for the 'glory' of mankind. To him the name by which the law is called is of little importance, so the user of the 'law' can use any suitable name to make it fit into his belief system as long the formula is still followed and applied. So the WoF can simply change the name to suit their Christian bias but still retain essentially the same principles. 
As evidence of those he claim used the power of FAITH he put at the head "the Nazarene" apparently referring to Jesus Christ (?). He went on to mention Christianity's basis as FAITH even though he says "people may have perverted, or misinterpreted the meaning of this great force". 
To him then FAITH is a "great force". 

He claims the achievements of Christ said to be "miracle" were done by FAITH. He says: "If there are any such phenomenon as "miracles" they are produced only through the state of the mind known as FAITH!". To him: "some teachers of religion, and many who call themselves Christians, neither understand nor practice FAITH". 
So it is the state of the mind (FAITH) that produces miracles. Even Christians don't understand FAITH as he (Napoleon  Hill) does. 

This Napoleon Hill's 'FAITH' can be demonstrated by anyone. Mahatma Gandhi , of India used its 'power' in "influencing two hundred million minds" and Charles Schwab of the United States Steel Corporation also used "his FAITH, his DESIRE, his IMAGINATION, his PERSISTENCE" to create the giant organization. 

We see here that the 'FAITH' Napoleon Hill talks about is created from the human mind. Anyone can use it irrespective of his religious (or irreligious) inclination. This Napoleon Hill's  'FAITH' does not look like TRUST in God or His Word. It is man generated and man-centered. Biblical faith is God-centered and it is God's Word that builds up faith in the believer. Unfortunately the 'teaching' of this man - Napoleon Hill - has found expressions in the church through pastors who have imbibed its philosophy. Hill himself claimed that guides from other "dimension" gave him "supreme secret" to the world. Who can these ones from other "dimension" be? Angels or demons? What new thing - "supreme secret" - is being offered to mankind that the Bible didn't give us?

^^^
The summary of the above is:

There are primarily, two main types of faith:

1) Faith based exclusively on the word of God (i.e. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God - Romans 10:17 KJV)
2) Faith based on the word of man or otherwise (i.e. ...everything that does not come from faith is sin - Romans 14:23 NIV)

Apparently "What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve" is one of Napoleon Hill's regular expression.

Writing about how achievement actually occurs,
and penning a formula for success in reach of the average Joe or Fred Bloggs, were the USP of Napoleon Hill books.

Writing formulas, is a similar trait adopted or used in WoF books such as Hagin's "How to Write Your Own Ticket With God" and other WoF authors out there.

[size=16pt]SUBMISSION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

Thank you trustman for that excellent submission. I was working on something as the above but slept off only to wake up and find the job done. Permit an addition.

It is clear that the teachings of Mr Hill are a perverted dimension of the biblical faith. Mr Hill at some point in that chapter actually defined faith using the Mark 11:24 definition but it is clear that while the bible faith is a gift given to men by God, Hill faith is one that you work up to obtain your desires. In this, Hill and his counterparts were dishonest for they refused to give credit to the place, scriptures, were they got the concept of faith from. Their own type of faith is a faith anyone can exercise, Regardless of creed. They have simply widened the way to God, a way that leads to destruction.

Except for this, Hill and his New Thought friends are largely honest. They hardly claimed they were teaching biblical thoughts. The real dishonest folks are the WOF folks who took Hill's teachings, traced them to them to the bible and began to call it the Christian gospel. One thing Hill did not mention in his write up was the efficacy of these teachings. Make no doubt about it, the practice of these teaching produce tremendous results. Hill himself would never have been poor, selling millions in bestsellers, advising US Presidents, etc. It worked for his health too, living to 87years but could these teachings redeem his soul?

Testimonies abound of people using these principles to birth real health and wealth but are they Christian? Note also Hill frequent use of the word PRINCIPLE, it is actually from New Thoughts that WOF adherents get the word principles and laws from and not the bible. Because while scripture teaches principles, it shows that they apply to Christians mostly. Hill insist anyone can apply and get result from these principles.

When I was growing up, it was not unusual to see Muslims and stark agnostics with Hill's books. Some Christians also read them. With the aim, like he says, to get rich. Is that a Christian purpose. I really do hope that our readers have been able to see that the root of all these forces of faith that is producing tremendous results for folks in our time is as actually metaphysical. These are what eastern religionist teach their people to make success of life and the worst part of it is that these things work. Deceiving the gullible to adopt them as religious practices.

The gospel calls Christians to live by faith and not by result. The biblical faith is miles apart and different from the faith of Mr Hill and WOF. The Christian faith comes by hearing God's word and not by vibration in the subconscious that came through auto suggestions. We have inadvertantly introduced New Age teachings into the Christian Church without knowing it. Today, Sunday, millions of people will listen to a minister teach them Napoleon Hill's gospel, backed up with testimonies of results, thinking they have listened to Christ gospel. These folks are simply deceived.

I trust that our readers have comprehended and are able to distinguish true biblical faith from these auto suggested sort of faith.

DrummaBoy:

Thank you trustman for that excellent submission. I was working on something as the above but slept off only to wake up and find the job done. Permit an addition.

It is clear that the teachings of Mr Hill are a perverted dimension of the biblical faith.

Mr Hill at some point in that chapter actually defined faith using the Mark 11:24 definition but it is clear that while the bible faith is a gift given to men by God, Hill faith is one that you work up to obtain your desires.

In this, Hill and his counterparts were dishonest for they refused to give credit to the place, scriptures, were they got the concept of faith from.

Their own type of faith is a faith anyone can exercise

Regardless of creed. They have simply widened the way to God, a way that leads to destruction.

Except for this, Hill and his New Thought friends are largely honest. They hardly claimed they were teaching biblical thoughts. The real dishonest folks are the WOF folks who took Hill's teachings, traced them to them to the bible and began to call it the Christian gospel. One thing Hill did not mention in his write up was the efficacy of these teachings. Make no doubt about it, the practice of these teaching produce tremendous results. Hill himself would never have been poor, selling millions in bestsellers, advising US Presidents, etc. It worked for his health too, living to 87years but could these teachings redeem his soul?

Testimonies abound of people using these principles to birth real health and wealth but are they Christian? Note also Hill frequent use of the word PRINCIPLE, it is actually from New Thoughts that WOF adherents get the word principles and laws from and not the bible.

[b]Because while scripture teaches principles, it shows that they apply to Christians mostly. Hill insist anyone can apply and get result from these principles.

When I was growing up, it was not unusual to see Muslims and stark agnostics with Hill's books.
Some Christians also read them. With the aim, like he says, to get rich. Is that a Christian purpose.

I really do hope that our readers have been able to see that the root of all these forces of faith that is producing tremendous results for folks in our time is as actually metaphysical.

These are what eastern religionist teach their people to make success of life and the worst part of it is that these things work.

Deceiving the gullible to adopt them as religious practices.

The gospel calls Christians to live by faith and not by result.

The biblical faith is miles apart and different from the faith of Mr Hill and WOF.

The Christian faith comes by hearing God's word and not by vibration in the subconscious that came through auto suggestions.

We have inadvertantly introduced New Age teachings into the Christian Church without knowing it.

Today, Sunday, millions of people will listen to a minister teach them Napoleon Hill's gospel, backed up with testimonies of results, thinking they have listened to Christ gospel.

These folks are simply deceived.

I trust that our readers have comprehended and are able to distinguish true biblical faith from these auto suggested sort of faith[/b].

^^^

This is a snippet of Hagin's "History of Ministry", where it shows when Hagin received his revelation of faith

- snippet of Hagin's "History of Ministry" -

Year 1934—Kenneth E. Hagin receives a revelation of faith
- Born again but still bedfast, Kenneth studied God’s Word.
Finally, he came to the verses that would transform his life
and become a cornerstone of his ministry: Mark 11:22–24.

²² And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
²³ For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
²⁴ Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
- Mark 11:22–24

- /snippet of Hagin's "History of Ministry" -

Just like Napoleon Hill, notice Hagin too, jumping on the bandwagon of Mark 11:24 along with using other ancillary verses (i.e. Mark 11:22 and 23)

The incomplete revelation that Hagin had and what Napolean Hill or any other WoF will not admit
is that the passage is not talking of receiving just like that or receiving on the face of it

Obviously because of not studying God’s Word properly, they all reference Mark 11:24
and also stop short of acknowledging the main and relevant fact that, what Jesus was saying or teaching in the passage was primarily about fruits (i.e. fig tree and it's fruits)

What is a fig tree?
Fig trees grows wild in dry and sunny areas, with deep and fresh soil, they also grow in rocky areas.
They have soft pear-shaped fruit with sweet dark flesh and many small seeds, they are eaten fresh or dried.

Sorry for the above "What is a fig tree" digression - It needed to be done to get things in perspective

Now let's move on and make the rest, short and simple.

The run up to the event in Mark 11:24 was that the fig tree was not bearing fruit
then followed by the disciples being surprised that, truly the fig tree really was withering at Jesus' command
then Jesus responding by saying the following in Matthew 21:21-22

²¹Jesus replied, "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt,
not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain,
'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done
²²If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.”
- Matthew 21:21-22 NIV

The passage (i.e. Matthew 21:21-22 or Mark 11:22–24) was all about fruits
In essence, the passage means whatever you ask that will bear fruits (i.e. fruits of the Spirit), it shall be given to you.

This is about fruits of the Spirit (i.e. Galatians 5:22 NLT) and mind you, not fruits or acts of the flesh (i.e. Galatians 5:19 NLT)

Whatever we ask, that will produces the love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, and faithfulness kind of fruit in our lives, we will receive, is what that passage is all about

That scripture, Mark 11:24, has being turned into an invaluable resource by the WoF movement or ministry

WoF have used Mark 11:24 to bamboozle the church, they've used it with flattery to deceive the body of Christ
and they have completely reversed the principles and/or interpretation of that passage to something completely off the chart

PS. I am yet to see "testimony" faith in the bible

Faith is personal, you travel the path of faith by self
and cant piggy back on someone's testimony to have faith

Faith comes from God and it comes via the word of God
and not by anyone's testimony

The strength of someone's else testimony (i.e. test-ti-moni) is like a shaken up coca-cola bottle
when the effervesce or gas that's gives off the bubbles settles down, one is back to square one and reality.

This is why FAITH, has to be faith based on the revelation or word of God (i.e. faith, first is personal, and if at all it needs to, later become mutual or corporate faith) and not based on testimonies

An example of faith been personal and built up based on the revelation or word of God is the familiar passage about the woman with the issue of blood
(i.e. Malachi 4:2; Matthew 9:20-22 or Mark 5:25-34 and or Luke 8:43-48)

[size=16pt]SUBMISSION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

I present my second exhibit in F1 to the house. My sincere apologies to those who find lenghty text difficult to read. I cannot even bold anything here because every word is instructive.

In this submission, the writer links mind science or new thoughts with WOF. Its a must read for any every Christian.

[size=16pt]Word Faith teaching- A spiritual copy of the Mind Sciences [/size]

Recently the book and DVD called “the secret” has become popular. It was promoted by Oprah Winfrey, a mind science adherent. It has made a large impact in a short time in America and throughout the world. “The Secret” Book is a bestseller, on the USA Today, Wall Street Journal and New York Times bestseller lists. 6 million copies of the book have been sold so far. The Secret is also an 80 minute DVD that is the top-seller on Amazon.com and BarnesAndNoble.com; 3 million copies have been bought. In other words this is in its beginning.

Many have accepted it as the newest success in life technique. It is really a potpourri of occult and metaphysical ideas. It is the basic message of the New age Movement- HUMAN POTENTIAL, which has its roots in mind science teachings. In this series of articles I want us to look at the similarities of the teachings of “the Secret” and its source and compare it to the word faith movements teachings.

The 29 co-contributors quoted by the author Rhonda Byrne of “The Secret.” All the authors agree with the metaphysical worldview and practice the concepts presented in the book and DVD.

Rhonda Byrne sums up “The Secret” as: “The law of attraction is the most powerful law.” “like attracts like. ... The law of attraction is giving you what you are thinking about. It is working all the time. “What we do is we attract into our lives the things we want, and that is based on what we’re thinking and feeling,”

“we create our own circumstances by the choices we make in life. And the choices we make are fueled by our thoughts—which means our thoughts are the most powerful things we have here on earth.” That’s something to really think about.

How does it work? Everything and everyone in the universe is energy and our thoughts put out a vibration, then things are attracted to us like a magnet.

John Walsch of the Secret states Thoughts are like magnets, drawing effects to you.” (p. 188)

Michael Beckwith states on the DVD that this has been “scientifically proven”, Bob Proctor says this “law” is-- “energy attracts like energy.” They seem to have overlooked that opposites attract in magnetism, like repels like. Oh well, so much for being scientific.

This concept is not exclusive to the Secret book- New Age participants have known this for years. John Randolph Price agrees; in his book “The Superbeings” he says: “Like attracts like. What you think in your mind will produce in your experience. … All the Power of the Universe is within you and this Power you can have anything on earth you desire.” (xv The Superbeings John Randolph Price 1981 Quartus foundation)

To put it simply in there own words- the ‘universal mind’ is energy ... which is everywhere, and we are all ‘One’ with it, and have power to control our reality. There is no personal Holy God in “The Secret,” instead they use the universe as a substitute, in fact- the closest they come to calling something God is by saying you are God.

P.46 of “The Secret” states “you are the master of the Universe the law obeys you.” -- “Your wish is my command.” We are told “This law listens to everything we think and act.” You have got to be kiddin’, the law is an “it” but it has ears. It has a mind but none of its own, it obeys us.

Mind science promoter Robert Collier wrote about the same concepts in his books The God in You, The Secret Power, The Magic Word, and The Law of the Higher Potential. In his book “Secret of the Ages” he writes: “Being a part of Universal Mind, shar­ing that Universal Mind's all-power, it has only to put the Creative Force all about it into the mold of your thought and bring the object into being” (Secret of the Ages p.62).

As we will see the word faith teachers are not far from the original tree that bore this fruit.

When and where did these ideas begin? In the middle of the 19th century to the early 1900’s a small spiritual revolution began, it used a mystical interpretation of Bible and combined other concepts to form a new type of spiritual system- it was called “New Thought.” Today we categorize it as the new age movement.

The founder of New Thought philosophy was Phineas Quimby, he was a student of spiritism, occultism, hypnosis and other expressions of parapsychology. His ideas gained prominence, and from his ideas was born Christian Science, Religious Science and became the basis for a number of cults, which include Unity School of Christianity.

New Thought's basic teaching is that everything is in the mind. We create our own world of good or evil, health or sickness, prosperity or lack by our thoughts. Mary Baker Eddy was one of the early patients Quimby “healed” and she began a new interpretation of the Bible called “Christian science” that was based upon Quimby's teachings-which she never admitted to. Her ideology was God is “Divine Mind,” and illness results from being out of tune with “Divine Mind.” Christian Science makes sickness an illusion and one overcomes it with correct thinking, it is the same thing in the word faith movement, they believe their body is lying to them. They disbelieve the symptoms, and stand on continual positive confession of the word to relieve them-selves.

The Unity School of Christianity (also known as Unity) was founded in 1889 by Charles and Myrtle Fillmore. Charles Fillmore is quoted in The Secret along with other New Thought teachers. One of Fillmore’s quotes in the book states: “Divine Mind is the one and only reality.”

It is important to note that Phineas Quimby is the man who E.W. Kenyon studied and embraced his ideas. These same concepts were later embraced and copied by Kenneth Hagin. Both he and his disciple Kenneth Copeland popularized these teachings in the church. Kenyon denied that he taught religious science. Yet it is a fact that his schooling were from those who practiced that philosophy. His influence came through years attending the Emerson College School of Oratory. Charles Wesley Emerson was an adherent of New Thought metaphysics. Emerson joined Christian Science in 1903 and remained in that religion until his death in 1908.

Another New Thought church is Religious Science whose founder Ernest Holmes based his “Science of Mind” on the same concepts: Holmes doubted the answers he got in church. He discovered the writings of Ralph Waldo Emerson. “Reading Emerson is like drinking water to me.” He pursued his metaphysical studies which involved literature, science, philosophy, and religion. And finally embraced the Christian Science teachings of Mary Baker Eddy. He then came upon the works of Ralph Waldo Trine, Horatio Dresser and Phineas Quimby. He moved from Christian Science teachings to Larson's works.

Ernest Holmes patterned his Science of Mind on: “Man, by thinking, can bring into his experience whatsoever he desires ....” “all is mind and that everything is governed by law, there comes another thought: it is that he can create, or have created for him from his own thinking. He can create such a strong mental atmosphere of success that its power of attraction will be irresistible. He can send his thought throughout the world and have it bring back to him whatever he wants” ( “Creative Mind and Success” by Ernest Holmes).

More recently-Norman Vincent Peale, a student of Holmes brought these same concepts into the church. He too based his positive-thinking principles on New Thought. Peale said as a youth he had “the worst inferiority complex of all,” and developed his positive thinking philosophy to help himself. Peale is what is known as a “progressive in religion-” one who did not believe in the bibles testimony of Jesus being the only way. In 1984, on the Phil Donahue program, Peale said, “It's not necessary to be born again. You have your way to God; I have mine. I found eternal peace in a Shinto shrine ...I've been to Shinto shrines, and God is everywhere:” Shocked, Phil Donahue responded, “But you're a Christian minister; you're supposed to tell me that Christ is the way and the truth and the life, aren't you?” Peale replied, “Christ is one of the ways. God is everywhere.” (Christian News (May 12, 1997), 11.

Peale taught “Your unconscious mind ... [has a] power that turns wishes into realities when the wishes are strong enough.” ( Norman Vincent Peale, Positive Imaging (Fawcett Crest, 1982), p. 77.)

He also taught: “God is energy. As you breathe God in, as you visualize His energy, you will be reenergized!” (Norman Vincent Peale, PLUS: The Magazine of Positive Thinking, 37:4, May 1986, Part 11, 23.) Similarly, John Walsch of “the Secret” states “God is the energy you call imagination.” p. 198).

These same concepts/teachings permeate the mind sciences.

Peale recommendation to visualizing this energy to permeate one's being; inhale this energy as God

Is found in new age (occult) they visualize energies circulating around or through their body. The vineyard churches a number of years ago would scoop the air around people to bring it toward them calling the Holy spirit to fill them. This is known as pantheism, and is more like Hinduism’s prana, where one breathes the air in their yoga exercise for energizing themselves.

Peale is known to be a 33rd degree Mason. When a Mason reaches this level of illumination he is taught that the god of the Bible is really a false god and Lucifer the lightbearer is the true God.

Robert Schuller attributed to Peale to be the man who had the greatest influence upon his theology and ministry, (He even claimed Peale starting the positive thinking movement). Schuller changed the term positive thinking to Possibility thinking and continued to contain the principles of these same ideas.

There are Spiritual winds that blow from the same source in the same direction. We have watched the church copy the world but when the world starts to mimic the church- we need to pay attention. ‘The Secret’ DVD and book is sweeping the secular world. The word faith teachers in the church originally got their teaching from the new thought movement over one hundred years ago - both are from the same source.

Some of you may be surprised that Christians are attracted to the Secret (no pun meant). Why Not? Word faith teachers have been using these very same concepts inside the church for years and now they are acceptable because of their promotion on major Christian TV networks.

As we continue we are going to see a thread of commonality in the teachings of mind science and word faith. Interesting note- They both use many of the same scriptures.

Quotes from the Secret:

Whatever is going on in your mind is what you are attracting
We are like magnets - like attract like. You become AND attract what you think
Every thought has a frequency. Thoughts send out a magnetic energy
Those who speak most of illness have illness, those who speak most of prosperity have it.
When you get the hang of this, before you know it you will KNOW you are the creator...You are the only one that creates your reality....Play the picture in your mind - focus on the end result. “It’s OK that thoughts don’t manifest into reality immediately ....“VISUALIZE!!! Rehearse your future...VISUALIZE!!! See it, feel it! This is where action begins.
Create a Vision Board .. pictures of what you want to attract .. every day look at it and get into the feeling state of already having acquired these wants.
Decide what you want .. believe you can have it, believe you deserve it, believe it’s possible for you.
Close your eyes and visualize having what you already want - and the feeling of having it already....Checks are coming in the mail regularly’… or change your bank statement to whatever balance you want in there… and get behind the feeling of having it.

Mind science teacher W. Clement Stone, is quoted in the Secret: “Whatever the mind of man can conceive, it can achieve”

Kenneth Copeland tells people to visualize: “Any image that you get down on the inside of you that is so vivid when you close your eyes you see it, it'll come to pass. When God came at the Tower of Babel, He said, 'Anything they can imagine, they can do.'“ (Copeland, Inner Image of the Covenant, side 2)

Indeed the Lord did say at the Tower of Babel in Gen. 11:6: “now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.” It wasn’t a good thing.

Rhonda Byrne, in her book and DVD, The Secret, tells how her daughter gave her a copy of The Science of Getting Rich, a book written in 1910 by Wallace D. Wattles. She believes she discovered the success of “the greatest people in history.” This book inspired Byrne to create her bestselling DVD. Wattle’s explains that the: “universal mind” underlies and permeates all creation. Through the process of visualization we can engage the law of attraction, impressing our thoughts upon “formless substance” to bring the desired result. . Once a person learns and obeys these laws, he will get rich with mathematical certainty.”

Byrne, the author of The Secret, is also greatly influenced by a couple named Jerry and Esther Hicks‘. In the Acknowledgements of The Secret, she thanks them for the teachings of Abraham. On the Hicks website, we find: “Abraham, a group of obviously evolved teachers, speak their broader Non-physical perspective through the physical body of Esther” In other words this is channeling- spirit possession.

On April 5, 2007, Oprah Winfrey discussed the Secret with these spirits “channeled” by Secret promoter, Esther Hicks. Not that we should be surprised, “channeling” has long been promoted openly on Oprah’s TV show.

What do the Hicks teach—

‘You are a creator; you create with your every thought. Anything that you can imagine is yours to be or do or have.” This is straight out of Mind Science

Jerry Hicks had also been a devotee of the book “Think and Grow Rich” by Napoleon Hill. Napoleon Hill said of his book- “This book contains the secret” (Napoleon Hill Think and Grow Rich p.9). Hill was taught the same occult principles by demons who posed as Ascended Masters from a School of Wisdom on the astral plane. Hill stated “I know I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul” (Think and Grow Rich p.86) – this is word for word from Charles Fillmore’s book “Dynamics for Living,” and Ernest Holmes Creative Mind and Success.

Ernest Holmes founder of Religious Science also came upon the same “Supreme Se­cret” that was revealed to Napoleon Hill- “Science of MIND teaches that Man controls the course of his life ... by mental processes which function according to a Universal Law ...”

Rhonda Byrne’s book is connected to both Wattles and the Hicks. The Hicks is connected to Napoleon Hill.

So we see a common source for “the Secret” teaching- it is dictated by spirit guides. We will confirm that these same teachings permeate the word faith movement.

We are warned that the teaching of demons will come into the church 1 Tim. 4:1: “Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.” The reason for this is found in 2 Tim. 4:3-4 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables”.

The secret teaches visualization- so do the mind sciences. Certain Christian leaders have been teaching visualization for years. In his booklet, The Power of the Inner Eye, Robert Schuller corrupts the Scripture by claiming that it advocates the occult technique of visualization. In an article dealing with . . . visualization .... “This is the vision that the Bible is talking about in the verse, “Where there is no vision the people perish.”. . . I have practiced and harnessed the power of the inner eye and it works .... Thirty years ago we started with a vision of a church. It's all come true.” (May, 1985, issue of Psychology Today, “In the Mind's Eye.”)

So he admits to practicing this occult technique.

Schuller wrote the forward of Yonggi Cho’s book “The Fourth Dimension,” which is filled with promoting new age visualization “I discovered the reality of that dynamic dimension in prayer that comes through visualizing..... Don't try to understand it. Just start to enjoy it! It's true. It works. I tried it.”

Visualization is one of the fastest ways to open oneself up to the spiritual realm—Cho teaches praying is not sufficient that “We should always try to visualize the end result as we pray.... If you have not visualized clearly in your heart exactly what you hope for, it cannot become a reality to you....” .... Through visualizing and dreaming, you can incubate your future and hatch the results” (The Fourth Dimension, Volume Two, pp. 25-28, 68, p. 44)

Aside from some Christian terms, I could mix up their quotes and you could not tell which is from mind/religious science and from the church.

David Cho explains of his four step plan for the incubation formula: 1) Visualize a clear-cut goal or idea in your mind; 2) have a burning desire for your objective; 3) pray until you get the guarantee or assurance from God that what you desire is already yours; 4) speak or confess the end result into existence.”

This the same formulae used in the secret- Play the picture in your mind - focus on the end result” VISUALIZE!!! Rehearse your future” “ VISUALIZE!!! See it, feel it! This is where action begins”
Create a Vision Board .. pictures of what you want to attract .. every day look at it and get into the feeling state of already having acquired these wants.
Decide what you want .. believe you can have it, believe you deserve it, believe it’s possible for you.
Close your eyes and visualize having what you already want - and the feeling of having it already.

Bothj cho and the Secret are nearly identical of mind science teacher Robert Collier “There is no limit, you know, to Mind. Visualize this thing that you want. See it, feel it, BELIEVE in it. Make your mental blue-print, and begin to build! (Robert Collier, The Law of Higher Potential, p. 368 (1947).

Cho states “In that way, with the power of the Holy Spirit, we can incubate that which we want God to do for us.... We should always try to visualize the end result as we pray. If you have not visualized clearly in your heart exactly what you hope for, it cannot become a reality to you.... (Yonggi Cho, The Fourth Dimension, Volume One (So. Plainfield, NJ: Bridge Publishing, 1979), 9-35; vol. 2, 18-33)

“We have taught our people how to ... visualize success .... Through visualizing and dreaming, you can incubate your future and hatch the results.” (P. Yonggi Cho 4th Dimension p.44, vol.2, pp.25-28, 68)

“This is what the Holy Spirit taught me.” (The Fourth Dimension p. 39-44)

How did the Holy Spirit teach him something that the Christian church never had in Scripture or was taught to the apostles for the early church? Occultists have been practicing this for thousands of years. It is one thing to receive a vision from God it is another to conjure it up oneself and expect God to obey.

What is the difference between someone seeing in the mind what they would want and have it materialize, and for example, seeing a picture to draw a blueprint of a house? The architect is not using the image or his mind to actually create the house- they are using they hands, physical labor to create it. The spiritual dimension (mind) is not controlling the material world.

Neither Jesus, Paul or anyone else used techniques as imaging or visualization for prayer or healing.

These same concepts - manipulating the spiritual realm though images or words to influence the physical world to materialize results has been used by shamans, witch doctors and occultists for millennia.

As mind Science teacher Fillmore said- “substance is first given form in the mind”

Laura Cabot, a witch calls visualization, magic, contact with unconscious materials and images occur spontaneously. Imaginative possibilities are more sharply focused... For these reasons witches do most of their magical work in alpha” (Power of The Witch, p. 175 Laura Cabot).

In the occult: the “law of manifestation,” declares that thoughts held firmly in the mind, spoken aloud, or visualized will “manifest' in the physical world. We will see the concepts and idea of visualization is carried into the word faith teaching of speaking and confessing.

http://www.letusreason.org/WF48.htm

BabaGnoni: [size=16pt]MY SUBMISION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

I introduce to you another exhibit on the subject of force of faith (i.e. Word of Faith Tree of life)

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

I introduce to you another exhibit on the subject of force of faith (i.e. Word of Faith Tree of life)

trustman:

BabaGnoni's chart is very incisive.
Virtually every WoF preacher has, in some form or another, been influenced by Kenneth Hagin. 
One thing that should come out clear from this us that the teachings of these preachers have their links to whatever "theology" Hagin adopted as his model. 

I believe the Let Us Reason Together web article help surmarise the WOF tree of life ver nicely. Stating in words how the links in the pix czme about.

Truth is WOF = Mind Sceince/New Thought, only that WOF uses bible verses to say what New Thought will teach ordinarily.

I bring out in this post additional matters on F1.

Faith in faith or Faith as a force

One of the foundational teachings generally held by WoF Movement is that of "Faith in faith".

Faith, they believe, is a force that can be used to create the reality the individual wants. The faith concept used is that of 'positive confession' where if the individual speaks "faith-filled" words he can get what he wants. 

The WoF movement believes that faith works like a great power or energy. Through that "faith", anyone can get anything he wants: health, wealth, success, anything. However, this "faith energy" or "force" is only released through the spoken word. Only by speaking the words of faith is power released to bring about the person's wishes. 

The emphasis is on saying, 'seeing' or visualizing and doing whatever thing necessary (e.g. telling others) that will make you receive your wish. They believe once you 'plug in' correctly then you are bound to 'receive it'. In essence it is the individual's actions that bring about whatever he wants. God has set the "laws" in motion and stands apart from them letting the "laws" work on their own for whoever discovers and applies the correct steps. The generally held view of the movement is that the spoken word correctly expressed (positively expressed) releases power to actualize whatever reality one wants. This is where the title " Positive Confession" is also often put on this movement. 

Statements by some WoF preachers
Kenneth Copeland: “Faith is a power force. It is a tangible force. It is a conductive force.”
Kenneth Copeland: “The force of faith is released by words. Faith-filled words put the law of the Spirit of life into operation.”
Charles Capps: “These principles of faith are based on spiritual laws. They work for whosoever will apply these laws.”
Kenneth Hagin:  “Believe it in your heart; say it with your mouth. That is the principle of faith. You can have what you say.”

On the other hand WoF advocates claim that speaking 'negative' words or "negative confession" attracts negative consequences into such a person's life. The Biblical reference used in support of this position is the case of Job where he stated that what he feared had happened to him. 

Statements by some WoF preachers
Kenneth Copeland: “Fear activates Satan, the way faith activates God.”
Charles Capps: “Job activated Satan by his fear when he said, ‘the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me’ (Job 3:25).  Active faith in the Word brings God onto the scene. Fear brings Satan on the scene.”

So to what extent are these positions of the WoF movement supported by the Bible?

The Position of the Bible

The Greek word translated "faith" - Pistis - has as one of its meaning trust or confidence in God and His word. 

When the WoF movement is linked to groups with aberrant teachings on what faith is, it is because those wrong perceptions of what faith is has been adopted WHOLESALE by the WoF movement and adherents.

The "faith" of those cults and groups is actually a reference to what the "mind" (the human mind) can do. What happened is that their "power of the mind" has been replaced with the "force of faith" by the WoF. 

When faith is seen as a 'spiritual law', 'universal principle' or 'universal law' like the 'law of gravity' it becomes a matter of man's personal mastery over those laws. If man can by speaking cause "things to come to pass" the nature of faith itself has been completely redefined. That redefinition of faith produces a 'faith' that is essentially not that of the Bible. A 'faith ' that is a FOCUS ON MAN and in man's ability to 'tap into', manipulate or control some 'universal law's or even God himself has nothing to do with SOLE trust in God, his power and promises: such a faith is therefore unbiblical. 

In Biblical faith the focus of the one exercising faith is on God or His word. Throughout the Bible what we find are accounts of men and women who anchored their faith in God not in themselves. The often quoted but misinterpreted and misapplied Hebrews chapter 11 by WoF adherents contains account of those who exhibited faith in God not in some 'law' which only the "initiates" understand. 
In the also often quoted Mark 11:22-24 we are told that when we pray "it will be done for you". It is God, to whom the prayer is made, who gets it done for you. Since it is not to a 'force of faith' that we are to pray, it follows logically that it is the one to whom we pray who brings about the results. 

N[b]owhere in the Bible do we find that we can command whatever we wish into being on our own. What we find is that we must have continual dependence and trust in God no matter the outcome of the answer to our request. 
[/b]

Faith is to be anchored on God and on nothing else. Biblical faith is not a trust placed on WORDS or placed in "positive confession". It is a trust placed in God and his WORD. 

I REST MY CASE ON F1 FOR NOW.

^^^

DrummaBoy:

DrummaBoy among other things, wrote:

Kenneth Copeland tells people to visualize:
“Any image that you get down on the inside of you that is so vivid when you close your eyes you see it, it'll come to pass.
When God came at the Tower of Babel,
He said, 'Anything they can imagine, they can do.'“
- (Copeland, Inner Image of the Covenant, side 2)

Indeed the Lord did say at the Tower of Babel in Gen. 11:6:
“now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.”
It wasn’t a good thing.

https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24350423

trustman:

trustman among other things wrote:

Statements by some WoF preachers
Kenneth Copeland: “Faith is a power force. It is a tangible force. It is a conductive force.”
Kenneth Copeland: “The force of faith is released by words. Faith-filled words put the law of the Spirit of life into operation.”
Charles Capps: “These principles of faith are based on spiritual laws. They work for whosoever will apply these laws.”
Kenneth Hagin: “Believe it in your heart; say it with your mouth. That is the principle of faith. You can have what you say.”

Nowhere in the Bible do we find that we can command whatever we wish into being on our own.
What we find is that we must have continual dependence and trust in God no matter the outcome of the answer to our request

Faith is to be anchored on God and on nothing else.
Biblical faith is not a trust placed on WORDS or placed in "positive confession".
It is a trust placed in God and his WORD.

https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24357598

We had earlier given a summary, that there are primarily, two main types of faith:

1) Faith based exclusively on the word of God (i.e. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God - Romans 10:17 KJV)
2) Faith based on the word of man, on man's whim, or otherwise (i.e. ...everything that does not come from faith is sin - Romans 14:23 NIV)

We also had earlier discussed that "What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve" is one of Napoleon Hill's regular expression.

Now it is evident from earlier submissions and from the two above DrummaBoy and trustman quote snippets,
that the second faith classification is ungodly,
it is not approved by God,
it does not resonate well with God,
it is a sensual or carnal induced faith,
God abhors it
and God takes no pleasure whatsoever in it

The second faith classification is:
faith which is based on the word of man, faith based on anything the mind of man can imagine, faith based on what the mind of man can conceive and believe.

Kenneth Copeland is right that "The force of faith is released by words"
and that this kind of faith works to some extent in carnal circumstances (e.g. the tower of babel, Napoleon Hill etc)
but because it is not godly faith, this is why God stopped the people in exercising their faith the way they went about doing.
Why did God stop them?
It is because the faith stirred up by the people was not from God or built on the word and/or revelation from God

Let no one be deceived, the distinction or difference between the two classes of faith is clear

The kind of faith, the WoF movement practice is, of the second classification
and this class of faith, is not approved or recommended by God
It is not spiritual at all (i.e. but is similar to the passage of the Tower of Babel etc, it bears no fruit of the Spirit)
but it is 100% carnal, 100% self, 100% egocentric and is word of faith 100% abused, 100% misused and is disgusting to be associated with

[size=16pt]SUBMISSION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

I REST MY CASE ON F1, FOR NOW.

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISION ON F2: GUARANTEED HEALTH OR THE HEALTH GOSPEL[/size]

Another basic doctrine preached by the WoF movement is that of guaranteed health for the Christian. WoF teachers make such bold claims as: "no believer should ever be sick". So to them physical illness is an abnormality for the Christian. 

According to them, physical illness has an underlying spiritual condition. Of course, "confession" also plays a part; negative words or admission of any symptom of illness promotes sickness. 

When a believer feels any sign of sickness in his body he is to disregard such feelings. The believer, rather than admit his feelings, he should "speak faith" to his body. 

The Bible certainly teaches divine healing. God still heals. But the key issue is how is healing received? Is it what man is expected to do on his own following a 'formula' or is it a matter of reaching out to God through PRAYER to get it from God?

As has been previously pointed out, the teachings of the WoF movement are linked to those men and groups whose basis for their teachings and practices is not the Bible. 

We will therefore again see how these men's teachings on 'divine health' has been adopted entirely by the WoF movement.

pls keep this thread going, it has been revealing so far! the heretic TBN station is all about this movement. bt i wonder, why are some other KENNETH HAGIN book so spiritual and having sound doctrine?