₦airaland Forum

anu3:
kimco


Well, thanks for your support bro... But honestly, I'll be doing more and growing more if I have a CHRISTLIKE elder (not Perfect, though) over me in a local church. I no longer believe just the One man Pastor System of common churches, but having elders of local churches as well; I may fellowship in a branch of theirs if the branch pastor is a good example of Jesus (not perfect), though.

As it says:

Heb.13.17 - Obey your spiritual leaders and do what they say. Their work is to watch over your souls, and they know they are accountable to God. Give them reason to do this joyfully and not with sorrow. That would certainly not be for your benefit.

But I can't submit to just any pastor or leader anymore. Except I know he has not been blinded by Money and Popularity as common.

petra1:



Well, thanks bro. But you can be sure I've been to most kinds of common churches around...

According to my narration here, a time came when I started looking beyond just one's Correct doctrines/Bible knowledge, holy or good external appearance, eloquence, miracles and signs, Big or Mega-churches and other GIFTS. These are what Jesus refer to as the sheep's clothing; hence, STRONG False prophets can use these things too.



Therefore, before I call a person a man of God, I compare them first with Jesus and Men like Paul (not perfect people, but christlike). Because Jesus said one cannot serve God and Mammon. And I check myself as a believer in these areas too.

But someone will say there are no men like that; no there are but very few and unknown. The few fairly well known I know are Zac Poonen (India), bro Gbile Akanni, late Jan boshoof (died last year), etc.

Men like Zac Poonen who could say to his congregation that if any of them finds any of his linked churches with a leader who's not christlike and unserious should be avoided at all cost, and had better find another local church that is not linked to him at all, but has a CHRISTLIKE leader. I doubt if there are many Popular Pastors in Nigeria that can say such genuinely. No, once you join there group/denomination, you must find and join their Branch anywhere you go (BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH, you know): whether the branch is dead or alive: as long as your TITHES AND OFFERINGS are intact, I guess.

Men like Paul, Peter, etc., were not mainly after Money, tithes, offerings, building megachurches and Popularity; but Jesus and his Kingdom primarily: living like Jesus lived.

1John.2.6 - Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Christ did.

Lastly... Let's not forget:

Matt.7.22 - On judgment day many will tell me, 'Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.'
Matt.7.23 - But I will reply, 'I never knew you. Go away; the things you did were unauthorized. '


Grace...

Bro the manual is there for you. Read it, apply it and help your fellows while at it. But I understand you.

alphaNomega:
You're still on point, keep deceiving yourself. You already know those stories are fake so no need to explain further.

Buda is arguing semantics. He is saying use the right words (correct, if wrong). The story isnt not fake. I would call it fictional, others may call it a myth. But it not fake. I get what you mean as well...but with all his roundaboutism i think he just wants to be philosophical.

The bible stories are not fake, but they have not been proven to be true. Their lessons however is up to the reader to interpret it for themselves. Use the right word and buda will leave you alone lol

alphaNomega:
Now I know you are trolling.

bro you have no idea lol.

petra1:
just submit yourself. Maybe in deeper life church. since you seem more inclined towards. similar model. you cant be without a Pastor

And why is this? Why can he not be without a pastor? Where in the bible was this stated? Are you incapable of doing what your pastor does? Or are you not a man/woman of God too? Everyone is called (assuming the bible is true) it is up to you to put in the work and help your fellow. Help your fellow to a good life, peace of mind and salvation...not poverty, suffering and an unstable mental wellbeing all while stuffing your pockets with their money or watching others do same, sit on the fence and stare and whisper to yourself "The battle is the lord's". Do something! Help them they are humans .

Lostchild:
You should not be concern how people run their church business affairs. You should be more concern about your own purpose here on earth. Christianity is your personal relationship with your creator, is a personal race.

One day, everyone will stand before the judgment seat of Christ. You will not give account of others but your own life.

1. How you overcome the world with what he gave you.

2. How you love your neighbor.

I advice you to run your personal Christ race..

I half disagree. You really should be concern about the way the church is run. Your salvation is tethered to how you helped your fellow to see the light lest their blood be asked of you. Why go to church if not to fellowship? People seem to have forgotten the need to fellowship. We don't live in a vacuum.

I believe OP must put in the work to help change the leadership to do what is right. The leadership are indeed fellows and they too must be straightened when they go wrong otherwise.....no body's salvation is their personal race. Its a network. If you disagree then I believe OP must stay home. God is not in the church.

jesusjnr2020:
For someone who also ironically finds nothing wrong in homosexuality which is an abomination in God's sight, I'm so sorry for dignifying you with a response. My bad.

"In God's sight"

Says someone who has never heard, or seen said God. Oh wait, you thing a supreme being will put his truth in a book? This is just childish and sad.

jesusjnr2020:
If up til now you've not yet realized that darkness and light, evil and good cannot agree, then yours is a worse than a hopeless case.

It's normal for you not to find any sense in my point because the things of the Spirit cannot be comprehended by the carnal mind.

So please do me a favor and stop making it seem as though disagreeing with me is unusual.

If you agreed with me, I would be deeply concerned and would have to ask myself some questions where I could have gotten it wrong.

And who cares about you? Its the people you have written this crap for that I hope to educate. Its no surprise you are not willing to allow yourself to be educated. Even when someone has spelt it out to you that the song is not a bad song you ran to baba spirits. What a cop out. But ofcos, you don't surprise me. You are my symbol of a raving religious fanatic. Ask around. The feeling is all around.

"Love is not a victory march, its a cold and its a broken halleluyah"

You read this and you still cannot see the beauty in this song? Osi sexual immorality? Akoa w3i paaaa wo y3 forkn.

jesusjnr2020:
If that figment of your imagination makes you feel better about your miserable self, please endeavor to believe it with all of your heart, soul, and mind.

I wouldn't want spoil a rare moment of satisfaction for you.

Its a pleasure.

jesusjnr2020:
Is There Anything Like Satanic Music?

Some people believe that some genre of music, for instance, rock music was evil and of the devil, while that of hymns was good and of God.

But that is very wrong, because what makes a particular music, to be of God or of the devil, is not the style or genre of music, but the message it bears, because music is just a medium that can be used to serve different purposes and to propagate all kinds of messages, both good and bad. Hence it can be used to serve the devil or God.

For instance, even the hymn style of music could be used to glorify Satan, if the message it carries were those that glorify him or preach the message of the world which he relishes.

There's one particular song that comes to mind that sounds like a hymn. It even bears a title that's not just associated with the church, but with heaven. But that's all there is to the song that has anything to do with the church or heaven, because it's a song that preaches and promotes sexual immorality. It appears a satire, which was deliberately constructed to mock and mislead.

But when a Christian hears the hymn style of the music and the chorus of the song which is its most pronounced part, for the first time, they are usually deceived to think it's a gospel song. But it's only when they get to hear the full lyrics of the song, including the verses, that they'd suddenly realize that it has nothing to do with God but the devil and the world!

The song's title is 'Hallelujah" and I'm going to use some of its lyrics to illustrate my point:

Your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew her
She tied you to a kitchen chair
She broke your throne, and she cut your hair
And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah

Hallelujah, Hallelujah
Hallelujah, Hallelujah

Ironically, this was the song a devoted and spirit-filled Christian couple who were about to get married, wanted to use as the Bridal marching song, so just imagine that they didn't know the truth about the lyrics, until the bride started marching down the isle. They would be getting the shock of their lives and I wouldn't be surprised if the bride stumbles on her way, because the shock would be more than enough to make someone loose her footing. But thankfully they were able to listen to the full lyrics of the song beforehand, hence any embarrassing situation that could have arisen from such as blunder was averted.

.

What About the halleluyah speaks of sexual immorality? Don't even married couples have kinky sex? Or is kinky sex now immoral?

Surely you have gone too far in your quest to demonize even basic human behaviour. Again..so sad for you. What a terrible life to live.


And unless i am wrong, i think it speaks to David's story. Im quite sure of it. The fall of david. Where a woman was able to make him fall. Through the power of seduction.

"And from your lips she drew the Halleluyah"

The holy word can be drawn from your lips by the worship of God or a woman. Thin line between the two depending on which state you find yourself. So becareful. Seriously what is wrong with you.

jesusjnr2020:
The feeling is mutual.

Yeah! I'm sure we both feel sad for you.

jesusjnr2020:
Not surprised but trust me sir, if you thought revival has already started in Nigeria, then you ain't seen nothing yet. Wait til you see what's coming, because this would be nothing compared to what is about to happen.

Nigeria is going to shock and shake the whole world. Remember what happened in Egypt right, with Moses and the Rod of God, something very similar is going to happen right here in Nigeria where the attention of the whole world would be beamed upon this nation. And it wouldn't be for something evil but for a very good thing, because God's gonna be the One on the console handling proceedings.

And it shall surely come to pass.

God bless.

Just Sad.

HellVictorinho:
Some people never look for a big daddy in the sky from the day they are born till the day they die


Nobody chooses to believe or not to believe anything


The faith just appears or/and disappears in SOME people

I have not been looking for any big daddy since I became an atheist

You don't have to like being hopeless to become an atheist


If you are not only talking about the supernatural,then leave me out of your theory because my relationship with my parents doesn't make me religious in the sense I am talking about


You know what I mean by religious (concerned with God or Gods)


I don't care about what you mean by religious

Lol I never spoke of atheism my brother.

Also your relationship with your parents doesnt make you religious. I never said it did. I said it is evidence of the tendencies to be dependent on someone or something bigger than us. If its humans we call it dependencies. If it is bigger or transcends the physical (beliefs, not proven) we call it religion.

Think of it this way....the mouth is used for communicating. Could be good info neutral info or bad info. One can choose which one to communicate most often. Still the tendency to gossip, speak well or just general communicate neutral info is there. I am sure i butchered it but i hope you got me.

Forget being religious. It is a conscious effort....whether we choose to grow up or not is up to us. Parents are supposed to guide us from being dependent on them or anyone else. What religious parents usually do is transfer the dependency target to sky daddy. So it never really stops. Be grateful you grew up from that. Think of the word "religion" as dependencies. Use it only when I speak of big daddy.

HellVictorinho:
Does that mean you have tendecies to be religious?



Google is wrong!!!!!!


Man refers to mankind (all humans)


But it's not all humans that can be religious.


I can't be religious.



If you accuse me of not understanding anything,then that will be in vain because it doesn't mean you have the understanding of anything




Spits.......

Yes sir, you do have the tendencies....mostly because we don't like feeling helpless or uncomfortable so we tend to look elsewhere.
By religion i don't only restrict man to the supernatural. If you would notice, the "reverence" of our parents or guardians cannot be denied. When we outgrow them then we look for big daddy in the sky. The tendencies are there.

You can choose when to stop though and it is advisable that we grow up when we do grow up.

Image123:
You're the one that relies heavily on research and science, i don't. It's like me asking you to write your thesis in my language instead of the language you studied in. While it's possible, it's not very convenient. But since you continue to insist, i will point you to links in "the language you understand" Check this and this. Or Google "man is naturally religious", maybe you'll find what you are looking for. Me, na Bible and experience i go quote for you.

Goid I knew I could trust you to give me links. Good to learn. Reading the links though the info I got was that man has the tendencies to be religious.

It goes like this

Ignorance --> confrontation (with the world) --> fear--> introduction to comfort (could be parents or big daddy in the skies)

Man hates to bear responsibility or be alone or be helpless. This makes it easy to slot religion as a comfort zone....

The default settings of man is ignorance. The natural tendencies of man is not man's default settings. Man is naturally capable of evil...man is not by default a killer lol...

So im going to concede to your definition of default aka natural tendencies. Yes, man has the natural tendencies to be religious....thanks for the links bro
Sorry for the late reply, nairaland won't let me login in for some reason.
It all boils down...survival...

SimplyFacts:
Make I do FEM!
I need to hear the woman's story before making any judgment or criticism. Some people are animals in human skin. The woman could have a very heartbreaking story to tell the public.

I wonder why some good men & women end up marrying sadists.

If they are divorced I don't care what happens. They are adults. But if not, then that is ilegal

Image123:
Brother, i don't have the strength for all this grammar policing. If you do not want or like "by default", take "by nature". All these six and half a dozen argument doesn't save anybody. Illustration is not necessarily a parallel. Illustration is done so that you can see the unseen or complex through means that are easier or that you are used to. Worship/Devotion/Religion is largely a spirit thing BTW. i hereby disregard all the atheists and wannabes on NL except kimco.

So you are saying, naturally, man is religious? This you have to give evidence to. You can cite a research to that effect. Im wiling to learn.

Image123:
i do not refer to cave painting but to cave men. This is because of the insinuations that religion was imported. This is not true, because if we go to the extremes of uncivilized people i.e cave men, we find them also religious. We both agree that early men were religious which is FINE.
The talk about predating is irrelevant and off point. Just like i mentioned, sexuality is innate. That humans don't generally have sex or want to until after puberty doesn't mean it's not an instinct. Whatever hypothesis you attach to man doesn't make his sexual feelings imported. It is the same with religion. Man doesn't need external help to be religious. Go from the most educated to the crudest cave man, the human being looks for something or someone to be religious about.

You statement

"Man is by default, religious"

Is what we are talking about. That statement is not evidenced. Man is by default ignorant, therefore non theist(in relation to religion, for now). I use non theist because i believe one needs to have information of said Gods to claim atheism. But if one is ignorant of said Gods, I believe he is non theist. Corrections are welcomed.

Again the null hypothesis is that man doesn't know anything until environmental exposure. To form any religious concept of anything man needs to be exposed to these things. My point about predating is very relevant because you tried to pass early men believes as the definition for "Default". It is established that man is sexual by nature, it is demonstrated and reason have been given. That which you have not done yet so the parallel drawn by you is just drawn for drawing sake. Until you can establish this fact that we have in our DNA the need to be religious we will assume that man is not by default (nature, as you put it) religious.
Also If you could provide your definition for religious, that might clear things up.

And I don't think anyone claimed religion was imported rather that the judeo-christian religion was imported. You can disregard anyone saying otherwise, I'm with you on that.

GeneralDae:
If the universe exists due to a cause and began at some point in time, then it is most likely that a God exists.

I don't think you are arguing for probability of existence of God...because if you were that would be okay. But you are arguing certain knowledge of a being you couldn't possibly know existed. Believe is not knowing.

Image123:
Brother, there is no attempt to predate anything here, whatever wants to predate religion is free to. The point remains that humans are naturally disposed to religion, whatever stage you may put it. Just like reproduction comes at a certain stage in humans, it's not immediate does not make it a stranger or learned thing. When it is time, the hormones will come, there will be 'heat', and the boy of yesterday will be a father. It's in him. Go to any cave in any part of the world and meet cave men there, they are worshipping something or someone. Man will continue to subscribe to some higher power of sorts. It's in the nature. It's another thing to now be taught and redirected to the right path or God. But a natural man is religious or if you prefer, will be religious by instinct.

Are you saying man is naturally religious because of cave paintings? I must humbly disagree. But you are free to establish that claim by providing evidence. Painting are not evidence of religion being in man's nature. Only that early men were religious. Establish the correlation then i will understand you.

And also if you agree that ignorance predates religion why are you saying man is by default religious? The null hypothesis states that man is ignorant of his world and has no worldview. That's what I want you to understand. Your statement is wrong. Early men worship higher authority does not equate man being religious by default....

Default equals "before external interference"

Image123:
Here is your style, maybe it will help. It is very clear from the Bible and from human experience. People of all colour, time, nature and economies have a God void that they fill up, which is only satisfied in the knowledge of the true God. Go into even the basest of cave men history, humans tend to attribute things to a higher power, devotions, prayers, rituals. When you are afraid or hungry or want to survive, by instinct humans ask for help from a perceived higher power. From God to luck to the sun to rivers or trees or the dead etc.

Thanks for the link. But it still falls short my brother. Let's not go far. When you were born you had no concept of God. But your instinct was to survive and avoid pain. This meant that one was ignorant of the world they found themselves. Your need to survive predates religion....you were born not knowing anything. Bar Nature vrs Nurture, the way we see the world is heavily based on our experiences. The God concept is not a biological concept but a social one. But the need to survive is biological...a state of ignorance predates knowledge and experience. One needs a reasoning(conscious) brain to consider God, one just needs to be alive to consider pain or discomfort. Your link just tells me that religion is older than we thought. Good education.

AntiAPC2023:
plenty do you know where I can get a graphics card pls

Dear they are too expensive right now. Wait for the prices to come down. Not worth it at the moment

Image123:
i'm doing good, and you? The natural man has a God void in his heart by default. That's why he craves to worship and devote himself to something or someone. In anywhere and anytime, educated or otherwise, man wants to worship something or someone. From God, to stones to trees to the sun to money or to even men. The latest is to "science".

Im good too my man. You cannot establish this. Early man was not necessarily religious. He just wanted to survive. All these things you mentioned were learned behaviour from one point that cascaded. One group's brain abilities grew and decided to question his environment. Imagine being like ants....who are you going to worship? You just want to survive. Man has been by default a non theist....ignorant if you will, (his natuaral feeling is i dont want to die, i dont like pain) imagine being hungry and afraid...what time will you have to question your world. It is when you have attained a sense of security that one starts to appreciate the world around him and question it proper. The worship thing is not instinctual. Its learned behaviour that branched all over the place. The idea of God was created from a need to be comfortable, mentally.

Image123:
The topic lacks thought as already pointed out. You can't reasonably think religion will die very soon, it beats logic and facts. Man is religious by default and always looks for something or someone to worship. Again, it's more probable for you to die this week than for your fantasy to be fulfilled. Don't take the facts too personal, deal with your emotions.

Why do you use phrases that are easily proven false. Man is not religious by default, he is ignorant of his world by default...that is the null hypothesis i was trying to get you to understand during our last debate. No one is born religious.
How you doing by the way?

YEAH THEY DONT WANT TO GET BEATDOWN. I DELIVER SPIRITUAL BEATDOWNS TO ATHEISTS. THEY DONT WANT NONE OF THIS SPIRITUAL ARSENAL I AM PACKING. I GOT SPIRITUAL NUKES THAT CAN BLOWUP THE WHOLE ATHEISTS ON NAIRALAND. THEY DONT WANT NONE OF THIS. NO SIR

You should rap...you have quite the comedic rhythm. You flow well...and I won't lie you come down hard on hypocrite religious apologists. But even you are not right....you point out their flaws but in the process also reveal yours too.

Still you fascinate me. Continue

Image123:
There you go. You want to prove dreams using "non technical" proof, but you have a problem with me doing same to prove the supernatural. This is the very plot, i drew it.

No it is not! Its like saying, how do you prove pain without technical test. This is a silly comparison. Everyone alive has reported as having dreamt at least ones. Same as having felt pain...not everyone can claim to have visited the supernatural so you drawing the parallel argument is just poor from you.

Anyways

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/58646-brain-waves-dreaming.html

This might help. Scientific knowledge and tools will continue to improve.

Image123:
You don't share His ideals. You can't even prove a dream, remember? Not to begin on a daydream.

What are you even on about? I cannot prove a dream? How about everyone dreams and can corroborate that fact. Or is everyone else lying? And that is just the non technical proof. Besides what has that got to do with ideals? Have you lost the plot here?

Image123:
Do you subscribe to His ideal of Heaven and His coming back to take people?

No! Heaven is here. Hell is here. Let's create what we want to create and stop day dreaming

Image123:
Ohh i did? Is Jesus Christ your Lord and way?

I subscribe to most of his ideals....but i don't belief in Christ as a lord to be worshipped.

Image123:
i don't have a way fortunately, Jesus Christ is the way.

Then how did you discern my way was the wrong way and yours the right way?

Dtruthspeaker:
Any stubborn soul in a good and law full society is an evil thing that should be and must be cut off.

The Law is on the doing of "The Good Only and Always" exactly as no one finds it permissible for a rapist, murderer or thief to remain in their families.

And neither is it good to throw them out to other places and persons where they can implement their evil.

Permanent removal of them is permanent removal of evil.

And the beginning of evil is "Stubbornness" aka Rebellion.

For the family to even bring him out for judgment, that tells you what they have been suffering in that family

I am shocked...but not surprised. So I leave you to that.

Dtruthspeaker:
The evil bible you use says "slavery", mine says "Servant" and servicing is legal.

God is against slavery and The Law Permits Service. And a servant is not the same as a slave.

The evil bible? My boss you don't know how ignorant you have exposed yourself to be. Wow what a sheep.... To speak to this is to study the history of Israel...how ignorant can you be to say only spoke of servitude? Did you even read the bible at all? Which society allows a master to beat a servant to the point of near death and is okay with it so far as the servant doesnt die?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_and_slavery

Read and learn.

Dtruthspeaker:
CHANGE OF POST!

The issue is not whether God wrote the Bible BUT THAT THE BIBLE CONTAINS THE BEST AND HIGHEST LAWS IN THE WORLD.

Secondly, what a crazy unreasonable response you gave up there! "You cannot prove that God wrote the bible"

When did you ask me to prove that God wrote the Bible? (Not to talk of your crazy fallacious conclusion)

1. You keep claiming the bible is from God...because of that your follow up claim is that the bible makes the best moral laws (because its from God)

2.Ah my brother, are you confused? Using your earlier post among others I asked you how you know the laws in the bible are from God? Now see what you are saying... Unless you now want to say the bible is not from God?!!!

Dtruthspeaker:
I did not say men did not make laws, I said they plucked it from God's Laws. And I specifically know this because I am A Lawyer (Bassreeves goes berserk here ) and the Person trained to draft those laws.

Which law is God's law? List them.

Dtruthspeaker:
So I know where it comes from and you don't.

And it comes from Natural Law!

And who is the Issuer of Natural Law? Again God!

did you say you are a lawyer? Hmmm

List the natural laws...after that proof that natural laws come from God. But first, proof God.

Dtruthspeaker:
Good Laws, bad leaders, is a Nightmare.

Good leaders, bad laws is also a bad dream save for the fact that good leaders will and must change those bad laws to good ones for them to be Truly good leaders.

If they fail to do so, then they are bad leaders and a bad dream.

You have to make good laws, and good executions ...and with your own power, elect good leaders. If for bad leaders you dont think you should make good laws and executions....well...Did you say you were lawyer? Is Nigeria safe?

Dtruthspeaker:
It is God who also Established The Courts and Judges and Lawyers, to hear and determine the Truth and Good or evil of any Matter.

And by God's Laws, the Judgment MUST BE VERY GOOD VERY VERY RIGHT AND APPLAUDED BY ALL REASONABLE PERSONS WHEN THEY HEAR THE JUDGEMENT.

So the Courts will rightfully determine the punishment that settles the complaints of an Aggrieved Party.

Bro you are very confused. This is very painful to read. You are far from what i expect from a lawyer... When did God establish these courts judges and lawyers? I mean why, why would you say this as a learned person? Leave that talk to the clerics. Stop this...you flip flop a looot too.

Dtruthspeaker:
7. One of the fundamental teachings of the bible is sin, punishment, hellfire. To say otherwise is just to be a great liar. Infact a whole book in the bible was written to scare people...what evidence do you want again?

The Bible did no wrong in tellingnyou that if you steal, you will be burnt; if you murder, you will be burnt, if you sleep with someone's wife or husband, on top of disgrace and beating, you will be burnt.

You denied this when i raised this point...ehbei abrantie...now in all full glory look at this. Bro hmmm

Dtruthspeaker:
Exactly as your car and phone, you will be in trouble with your Creator and Owner, if you do not do His Will and Please Him.

It's as simple as that!

Congratulations, you have out done yourself....terrible terrible.

BassReeves:
Hin dey una bodi. Pfft

At least you've learnt not to again try and say that God is The Law of Nature

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You dont miss the 'I am a lawyer' publicising trick

My bad my brother...wrong quote

Image123:
That's quite a long expectation knowing it's the truth.

Im sure only your way is the true christian way.