₦airaland Forum

OlawumiX:
Step down for what/who Sambo; Mark; Dimiji.  Please think things through first

That is the issue. These guys weren't elected.

Mark I can tell you was never elected! PDP did not even win in his senatorial zone.

What we need is another "Abdulsallam" moment.
Just like Abdusallam handed over power to civilians and stepped down,

Jonathan should conduct free and fair elections in '11 and step down.

PDP will be widely defeated, corrupt politicians will be heavily booted out.

Progress!

If at this stage Nigerians still do not know the real issues holding them back, there is a big problem.

It is simple!

Your process of choosing leaders is not working. The wrong people are in government wether in the regions or at the FG.
Change that first. Then fight corruption with the new credible leaders.

Beaf:
It is losers from the core North that are behind the bloodshed in Nigeria. A few horrible examples will be made of the fools responsible.

Are northerners also responsible for the bombings in Yenagoa or the massive assassinations/kidnappings in the South-East?

Rivers State is a classic example where the real winner of the gubernatorial election (Rotimi Amaechi, at least within PDP) was first displaced but democracy won in the end.

If news coming out of that state is anything to go by Rotimi is doing a relatively awesome job.

Not to talk of the Fasholas who were genuinely elected.


Give us credible elections, we will elect our types of leaders who we think (or know) are mildly or not corrupt.
A new Nigeria will be borne.

Eziachi:
If you read what I said carefully I was also emphasising the importance of a free and fair election, but a productive democracy is not all about just elections and its harvest. Some are now even calling ACN and Buhari but they forgot that those people will rule with the same Nigeria of 36 unsustainable state governments and God know how many local governments.  All these were created to create political positions and get one over one ethnic nation and take lion share of oil money called revenue allocation and they are still planning to create even more states.

I doesn’t matter whose party or person you bring it, they will still rule with a constitution, no one understands, or no one knew the real author but was designed for the benefit of those the authored it. Nigeria is place where a navy can base in the desert without a blink of an eye because the person that sited it comes from the desert but forgot that ship sail in the waters and that is not about to change tomorrow, rather it is getting worse.

The constitution is not the primary problem (at least not yet). Let whatever we call a constitution (1999 or that being ratified without the president's consent) be enforced first. At least the Nigerian Constitution in any form takes rigging or election violence as crimes. Enforce this.

Free and fair elections is an assurance for credible leadership compared to what we have today. That you cannot dispute.

Secondly, look at the regional political parties like APGA, PPRA or ANPP. Even within them they are largely undemocratic.
Or are you saying all the derivation benefit going to the oil producing states has changed their lives? Aren't the South-South people running their own governments? Still nothing to show for it.
So if you separate Nigeria,  what you see in these regioanal parties is what you will obtain in the various regions (or nations as some people call them).

Corruption and nepotism just like in Nigeria today.


We really need to 1. enforce our constitution, run free and fair elections and thus credibility increased in governance will 2. drive down corruption coupled with prosecution of law-breakers

goggs:
the problem will not likely be solved with division if we have selfish leaders. Look at some states with relatively fantastic allocations but terrible mismanagement, look at others will less and seroius development going on. While separation may sound appealing, its not the magic wand to solve our problems. Its an attractive option I am gravitating towards but I know unless fundamental changes are effected our resultant countries or regions can be as small as Liberia and yet be killing ourselves or be as big and complex as South africa and yet be stable and prosperous. THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET

Thank you. Exactly!

Eziachi:
If you read what I said carefully I was also emphasising the importance of a free and fair election, but a productive democracy is not all about just elections and its harvest. Some are now even calling ACN and Buhari but they forgot that those people will rule with the same Nigeria of 36 unsustainable state governments and God know how many local governments.  All these were created to create political positions and get one over one ethnic nation and take lion share of oil money called revenue allocation and they are still planning to create even more states.

I doesn’t matter whose party or person you bring it, they will still rule with a constitution, no one understands, or no one knew the real author but was designed for the benefit of those the authored it. Nigeria is place where a navy can base in the desert without a blink of an eye because the person that sited it comes from the desert but forgot that ship sail in the waters and that is not about to change tomorrow, rather it is getting worse.

The constitution is not the primary problem (at least not yet). Let whatever we call a constitution (1999 or that being ratified without the president's consent) be enforced first. At least the Nigerian Constitution in any form takes rigging or election violence as crimes. Enforce this.

Free and fair elections is an assurance for credible leadership compared to what we have today. That you cannot dispute.

Secondly, look at the regional political parties like APGA, PPRA or ANPP. Even within them they are largely undemocratic.
Or are you saying all the derivation benefit going to the oil producing states has changed their lives? Aren't the South-South people running their own governments? Still nothing to show for it.
So if you separate Nigeria,  what you see in these other parties is what you will obtain in the various regions.

Corruption and nepotism just like in Nigeria today.


We really need to 1. enforce our constitution, run free and fair elections and thus credibility increased in governance will 2. drive down corruption coupled with prosecution of law-breakers

goggs:
the problem will not likely be solved with division if we have selfish leaders. Look at some states with relatively fantastic allocations but terrible mismanagement, look at others will less and seroius development going on. While separation may sound appealing, its not the magic wand to solve our problems. Its an attractive option I am gravitating towards but I know unless fundamental changes are effected our resultant countries or regions can be as small as Liberia and yet be killing ourselves or be as big and complex as South africa and yet be stable and prosperous. THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET

Thank you. Exactly!

Eziachi:
Even the United Kingdom with over 800 years of democracy recognised that there cultural and identity differences between the English, Scottish. Welch and Northern Irish nations that make up the Kingdom, hence in 1997 they devolved power from London to this nations so that everybody can still do their own thing, the way they see fit and maintain a sense of belonging.
Nigeria the way I see it, is like a business enterprise of few people, while the rest is there to make up the numbers or trying to join the enterprise if possible and once they are in, they are okay. So it doesn’t matter if you bring in a Saint Paul to rule Nigeria in a free and fair election, because he will still fail due to the structure that is crooked, deceptive and designed not to work from the start.

Ezeachi, I like your British power devolvement example.

Remember Britain had become a mature democracy with little or no corruption in its polity and they decided to decentralise afterwards in 1997.

Nigeria is not even a democracy yet in the true sense of the word (unless you have been voting for PDP since 1999).

Before we consider separation or military intervention , we need to establish two things:

1. Ensure that peoples vote count, which will assist in bringing credible leaders into power and leading to 2. massively reducing corruption.

Even considering separation will take a free and fair referendum (voting process), a process we don't even have yet.

Also, separation is not the same as decentralisation. Decentralisation is not a bad option in my opinion.


By the way I don't see how Cameroun is in a better position than Nigeria today.
Paul Biya as president since 1982? My friends from Cameroun tell me about the nepotism going on there?

Depilot:
@Rousseau
Great point; but anything is better than what these thieves are feeding us.
You do not want to see how our leaders and their families are spend our money, both in Nigeria and overseas. It is ridiculous and unGodly.
Again, the past, current and future leaders are determined to suck this nation and all Nigerians dry till the end of time. Something drastic must happen to get our country back from these evils.

Facts, with all money generated from Oil, our country is now a great example of a hopeless land, leaders are thieves, nothing is working, our laws are nothing but expensive decorations. I think with Military intervention/sensible conditions we have nothing to lose at this point.

Military take-over shouldn't be an option at the moment.

presido1:
Too many if(s). As in Nigeria one if will take one millennium to come to reality. So it will take like 300 to 400 years for us to have a free and fair election in this contraption called Nigeria. Nigeria as it is, is not working the earlier we face the reality the better for you, me and our children. Attacking Eziachi or any other person that suggest a solution is not the way.

We just had our if moment and GEJ may blow it.

The best GEJ could have done was not to run but conduct a free and fair process where votes count for what they are worth and handover in May.
We are currently facing an opportunity for a watershed in our history as Nigeria.

We will turn a new leaf at that point.



Abdulsallam would have continued to hold on to power after Abacha. But he handed over to civilians. That was an if moment, a watershed.

Eziachi:
I will like a situation where everybody should go home and fix their individual problem as small nation. It won't be easy as much of the inherited Nigeria DNA will be carried over to the new nations and will take time to get rid eventually, but there will be pride, ethics governed by individual cultures and traditional ways of doing things which we all lost inside Nigeria, trying to create a plastic  and cosmetic culture.
A new nations where the likes of Fashola who seems to be doing okay in the midst of Nigeria chaotic scene can seek the mandate of his own people who are largely progressive in their outlook but cannot in Nigeria because a Yoruba man in OBJ has had it for 8 years and Nigeria is controlled by a ultra conservative gang of rogues holding hand from all regions of Nigeria not because they had any love among themselves but were united in public wealth they cornered for themselves and their hang ons.

Ezeachi, your view of the Nigeria solution may have congealed from your past experience as I have read.
But I assure you that if free and fair elections were allowed to run in Nigeria for two just terms you will see the advent of different parties coming to power in the various states (not PDP hijacking the whole country) and the likes of Fashola will ascend in the various parties through this fair process largely due to competition 'cos people have choices.

They know that if this happens corruption will greatly wither hence they won't let that happen.

If only GEJ isn't to run but agrees to conduct a proper election,  PDP will be booted out for progressives.

Ola edo:
What arent you getting? We are not a nation.Nigeria is a counterfeit and imaginary country  containing nations. Nigeria is worse than sudan,way worse! Its just that southern sudanese had the balls to fight against their oppressors. There's been Genocide going on in nigeria since the 60s.Where have you been? Politics,ethnicity, and religion is one in the same in nigeria so there is no alternative but separation.

Like I have stated. This where we differ.

If Nigeria's situation is worse than Sudan you won't be here speaking English.

Ola edo:
We are not a nation and never have been one. As individual nations each ethnic group(nation) was progressive until the amalgamation. The country is just too big and diverse to control especially in africa.Sorry but nigeria has never worked and will never.

This is where we differ.

We aren't the only nation dealing with diversity issues.

It is like telling South Africa, Brazil or Indonesia or even US (where there is still marginalisation) to split because of their diversity.

Our case is not even like that of Sudan where heavy marginalisation and ethnic cleansing of the Black South by the Arab North is the norm.

We are a nation that can easily fix our issues by taking out the hydra headed evil of corruption from our polity.


The bombings of today are very likely related ro politics. Politics is a hot bed today in Nigeria because people wan go thief their 'own' share from national cake at any cost.

Ola edo:
[b]The question you should be asking is if we "chose" to be togethe[/b]r.

We might not have chosen to be Nigeria by ourselves but we've being in existence since 1914.

It has conferred on us as a nation peculiar strengths and weaknesses.

I am insisting that our strengths greatly surpass our weakness as Nigeria if you do away with corruption.

Before oil we had a means of livelihood - hardwork mostly through agriculture (in all the geopolitical zones with export sef).

If many people stopped aspiring to be political office holders because of largesse, stopped looting and executed contracts as planned, prosecute law breakers esp corrupt officials justly,
I don't think you'd have a reason to question the existence Nigeria in the first place.

Ibime:
Alas, the contraption called Nigeria is unravelling.

Do those who wish to make the country ungovernable believe they will be able to govern in peace? Niger Delta strap up.

It is unfortunate that our situation as a country has turned this way.


Because our potentials are greatest with our current size. Hence we are even touted as potential economic powers (the JP Morgan 'Next Eleven').
It is because of our large size and great diversity in demography and resources.

We can chose to throw all this away and split up due to some backward facing non-visionaries.
It may be unavoidable but it will indeed be a very painful loss.


Btw our problem is largely corruption that is why they are killing people like this and inciting religious/ethnic animosity to keep us divided.

Bring corrupt people to book - set a deterrent and you will how how smoothly Nigeria will perform.

[quote author=Abu-Maryam link=topic=577473.msg7442137#msg7442137 date=1293835522]oBJ deliberately went for the p[b]oorest choice possible in Yar Adua . OBJ knew that the man was chronically ill. He knew Yar Adua was a loner who hardly left Katsina State and was unknown to most Governors because of how he rarely interacted with his counterparts . The man had never even been to the USA until he became President !!![/b] How can such an introverted character be viewed as capable of leading Nigeria? After settling on Yardie , OBJ then shamelessly bullied everyone and everything out of the way to make him President. In the end this has nothing to do about balls. It is about how OBJ vengefully and deliberately lumbered Nigeria with weak leadership for his own wicked agenda. Nigerians are now paying for his wickedness .         i doubt the bolded statement.[/quote]

Gbawe:
It is true. Not my style to malign the character of folks falsely even if I don't like them. Go and investigate and you will discover that Yar Adua's reclusive nature , coupled with his illness , meant he was hardly ever interested in leaving Katsina State. The point is that OBJ , having being in the saddle himself , would know that Yar Adua was not the President Nigeria needed.

Touche.

Aigbofa:
Nigerians are dying needlessly today, that is more urgent than what happened in 2007, in my opinion. What is Jonathan doing to put a stop to the gradual slide into anarchy.

U asked the question:  

Aigbofa:
OBJ is supposed to make someone president and give him balls too?

and i answered.

LRNZH:
Obj was supposed to ensure the elections ran their course in a free and fair manner with minor tinkering here and there.



I would like to know if you think this is what happened in 2007.

Of course if he was chosen in the first place in 07  cos he lacks balls then maybe a miracle will grow the balls he needs to assert himself and bring perpetrators to book to protect the needlessly dying.


Even some Republicans hesitated to vote for McCain in the last US pres. elections because they couldn't imagine Sarah Palin assuming the leadership of the US in certain scenario.

Rousseau:
This is out of Goodluck Jonathan's hands. Nigeria as a nation will not see peace during these election times. The writing is already on the wall. If people think President Jonathan can do anything about these turn of events, you are sadly mistaken. He cannot do much, nor can anyone else militarily or politically. The powers that be are trying to find a way to get power, and they will do so by any means necessary. As you can see, they have no qualms killing innocent people. Nigeria is starting to resemble Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan. This is a time to be vigilant in Nigeria.

This is not going to be the first hotly contested election in Nigeria.

In 03 & 07 it was assassinations of key political figures and Nigerians cried foul.

Now bombing of the masses? This is an order or two of magnitude worse.

GEJ as a leader has no other option than to take responsibility except he isn't truly in charge.

Aigbofa:
OBJ is supposed to make someone president and give him balls too?

Obj was supposed to ensure the elections ran their course in a free and fair manner with minor tinkering here and there.

I would like to know if you think this is what happened in 2007.

cold:
Another Abuja Bomb Blast- Jonathan Reacts.,
Posted: December 31, 2010 - 22:46
Posted by siteadmin
By Mitaire Ikpen

Tonight, evil people determined to turn the joys of fellow Nigerians to ashes detonated a bomb at a barracks market in the Federal Capital City.

Basking in their nefarious success in Jos on Christmas eve, they have once again knifed at the heartstrings of a nation decked out in gaiety, celebrating new year's eve. This is extreme evil. It is wicked. It defies all that we believe in, and stand for as a nation.

The president, Dr. Goodluck Ebele Jonathan, condemns this attack, and commands the nation's security services to rise to the occasion and  arrest this new and dangerous challenge to our peace and stability.

There shall be no sacred cows. All, no matter how remotely connected to these incidents, must be brought to justice.

They must be made to pay.   No one, and we repeat, no one, can make this nation ungovernable.

Ima Niboro
Special Adviser to the President,
Media and Publicity

http://saharareporters.com/news-page/another-abuja-bomb-blast-jonathan-reacts

Can you imagine?

We expect a state of the nation address from GEJ himself not a press statement from Ima Niboro.

'Strong leadership' of course!

Litmus:
What about 9/11? the blasts in the London underground, those terrorist acts in Indonesia, bombs that occur regularly all over the world?

I'm not therefor concluding that leadership is strong or weak in Nigeria only that we have to get away from the temptation of using acts of violence like these bombings to further our political biases or agendas.  

Above the political and social problems in Nigeria i personally feel that a major flaw in most African countries including Nigeria is one of border control and immigration. As Asian countries such as China and India become more powerful, African nations most begin to understand how they may be perceived in order to formulate measures to forestall current and future destabilization. While the current atrocities in Nigeria may have, as some contend, local political intrigue, i don't believe the consequences would be so far reaching or devastating for Nigeria now or in the long term without external acknowledgment.

Are you implying that the incessant bombings and violence that we have been witnessing all over Nigeria since Independence day are equivalent to the singular events in various countries like you mentioned?

What has the current FG done with regards to the arm shipment from Iran. Would Britain, US or Indonesia have kept quiet the way we have if they were the affected country?

Watch and see what the how the FGN leadership will respond to the bombing(s) of today. I bet you will classify the response (if any) as strong too.

dayo1401:
@ Litmus,
and how many has (sic) re occured after 9/11,
its not that it cant, u make it almost in possible

the guy at attempted to bomb times square newyork, has been sentence to life in prisonment,

not by obama coming out to make empty speches, and dies the case down after two weeks,

Exactly.

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=577473.msg7441949#msg7441949 date=1293832204]GEJ? [/quote]no b my mouth you hear am oh?

cold:
A state of emergency should not & cannot be declared in Plateau state.That is giving in to to the perpetrators.What is required is for those responsible to be punished according to the law.That will serve as a deterrent to others,but will that ever happen?

I get your perspective.

But the man (Jang) you're supporting has taken no initiative to even look into the Jos crisis. It should be less about sentiments than effectiveness here.
He is the states no-1 citizen and has to take responsibility for it.

Who will initiate the process of bringing the perpetrators to book?

calaway:
This is becoming a very bold faced attack from those that have vowed to make Nigeria ungovernable. I have never like the crop of Politicians in whoes hands  Nigeria has been placed by the very architects of all our woes and as Nation past prsent an futre, GEJ is no exception but under the circumstance he is the better of the unimaginably evil options. To attempt to place the blame for the spate of bombings on his doorstep by expecting him to somehow know when a misguided messenger of doom decides to place a bomb amounts to not-so-smart reasoning which defies any logic. Unless the plan is to create a scenario tht will allow some waiting plan to cash in on the confusion. So we give a dog a bad name to hang it,in this case the government is being portrayed as inapt and a martial government seizes power. A very Good Script(you need to be an evil genius to hatch this one). Frankly I am all for this if it will save our nation, so long as I dont see Abduls and mohammeds and Buharis or Adamu in the list of so called emancipators of Nigerians. Simply put we are tired of these Hausa/Fulani/northern people reaping where the have never sown. So if there must be a coup in the offing please please and please no hausa/northerner as our leaders or else as many other Nigerians I swear I will go back to my part of this sorry a.s country and make sure that not a drop of my oil leaves home We will fight you to the last drop and we will also take the fight to your doorstop bomb mosque in Sokoto and kano during full sessions on a regular basis. In contemplation  of a coup and there is no guarantee of compliance to the afore mentioned kindly allow us take our chance with GEJ. and please leave churches alone.

Calaway, since the recent blasts and violent events that have occurred in Jos, Yenagoa, Maiduguri and now Abuja, what have you seen any public official say or do that amounts to  a serious will to tackle our these? Is it not time enough to declare a state of emergency in a state like Plateau? Have you heard anything from GEJ regarding this?

R we suppose to teach GEJ how to keep his political adversaries on their toes? IBB, Atiku and a host of other politicians are corrupt and there is evidence for this but nothing!
GEJ seems to have turned a blind eye.


My brother, OBJ's legacies (incl. GEJ) and PDP are not going to take us anywhere if we actually reason this out.
If OBj had held free and fair election in '07 we wouldn't be with the likes of Yar'adua, GEJ and PDP.
Other parties would have been more active in governance leading to more competition to perform (fr eg ACN knows it cannot mess up in LAG otherwise PDP will wrest power from it).

tamedo:
Where is this country heading to??

-->Heading to where OBJ and his cohorts have planned it to go.

No third term means no progress for Nigeria.

Nigeria is slowly but surely showing the failed state symptoms.

I honestly blame OBJ, All these are parts of his legacies.
OBJ gave us strong leadership but foisted inexperienced and weak leadership (Yar'adua, GEJ, ) on us because of his failed third term ambition.

OBJ should be remembered for this scheme.

PDP is definitely not the way to go, They lack anything close to a vision for this country.

I'm sorry Nigeria and Nigerians.

It is a nice development no doubt. What do we get in return?

Remember when Malaysia came to solicit palm nuts and palm farming expertise from Nigeria in the 70s or so.
Now look at current palm oil data:

Total production in million tonnes:      42.8 (Indonesia 19.5, Malaysia 17.7, Thailand 1.2, Colombia 0.8, Nigeria 0.8, other 2.8 )
Export in million tonnes:                    32.8 (Malaysia 15.6, Indonesia 14.6, other 2.6)

Nollywood may one day be overtaken by "Sambawood" in a similar fashion.

Naija (apologies to Dora), we need to get our acts right!

excoba101:
You are right on track if that was Goldman's account. I usually use Goldman and CIA fact on issues like this.

But come to look at it, how they get their figures i still don't understand since countries like Bangladesh, Indonesia, Philippines and Vietnam are not doing well. There must be some factor we non economist tend not to be aware of when rating these things

Goldman Sachs used macroeconomic stability, political maturity, openness of trade and investment policies, and the quality of education as criteria.
As at 2005 these were the countries Goldman Sachs deemed to have all the promising outlooks for investment and future growth.

I think indonesia and Vietnam have made significant progress.

honeric01:
Me too, but i don't trust CIA's reports, always outdated and it takes them time to update their database.

excoba101:
I will get you the link when i find it again.  

Anyway,
Like i was saying based on Nigeria's potential, she is listed among the Next Eleven Countries dentified by Goldman Sachs investment bank (in 2005) as having a high potential of becoming the world's largest economies in the 21st century along with the BRICs (Brazil Russia India China).

Next Eleven - Bangladesh, Egypt, Indonesia, Iran, Mexico, Nigeria, Pakistan, the Philippines, South Korea, Turkey, and Vietnam

It is up to us to make sure we achieve this potential by asking for accountability at all costs from ourselves in whatever we do, from our councillors , house members all the way to the president.
The upcoming elections should be for the masses where the motive to rig will be fought hard by all.

excoba101:
@LRNZH

What year was that? I am talking about the current figures.

These are 2008 & 2009 figures. 2010 figures I've seen so far are estimates.
How about if you post your information or the source of it?

excoba101:
I say all credit be given to Britain for Hong Kong's glory. What these prosperous Asian countries closely and you find find out that they are very welcoming to the white unlike the western Africa.

Look at Zimbabwe, Botswana which are no match for Nigeria but they have good structures and if posting picture were the yardstick they would also come up among top 10.

Recently it was declared that Nigeria has emerge as second economic power in Africa. How did we got their?

By that Nigeria is actually third.
GDP (nominal) of top 20 African countries:


Rank   Country 2008 (billion USD)     2009 est. (billion USD)

World         60,917.477 57,228.373
Africa         1,282.373 1,184.891
1 South Africa 276.764 277.379
2 Egypt        262.617 187.956
3 Nigeria        207.116 165.437
4 Algeria        159.669 134.797
5 Morocco        88.879 90.775
6 Angola        84.945 69.708
7 Libya        59.688 60.159
8 Sudan        58.029 54.294
9 Tunisia        40.843 39.573
10 Kenya        29.564 30.212
11 Ethiopia        26.393 33.920
12 Cameroon 23.732 21.820
13 Côte d'Ivoire 23.508 22.909
14 Tanzania        20.668 22.159
15 Equatorial Guinea 18.525 11.175
16 Ghana        16.654 14.761
17 Zambia        14.654 13.000
18 Uganda        14.565 15.658
19 Gabon        14.535 10.936
20 Botswana        13.461 10.808

But we rank a lot worse in per capita income

Countries by GDP per person, converted to US dollar through estimated IMF exchange rates.
Rank Country GDP - per capita (USD) 2008 Estimation of 2009
1 Equatorial Guinea 14,941 8,759
2 Libya                14,479 9,570
3 Gabon                9,998 7,414
4 Seychelles        9,640 7,683
5 Botswana                7,554 5,995
6 Mauritius                6,872 7,146
7 South Africa        5,685 5,635
8 Angola                5,054 4,027
9 Algeria                4,588 3,816
10 Namibia                4,278 4,341
11 Tunisia                3,995 3,794
12 Cape Verde        3,464 3,419
13 Republic of the Congo 2,952 2,298
14 Morocco                2,827 2,847
15 Swaziland                2,778 2,854
16 Egypt                2,162 2,450
17 Sudan                1,522 1,388
18 Nigeria                1,401 1,089
19 Djibouti                1,252 1,354
20 Zambia                1,248 1,027
21 Cameroon        1,224 1,095
22 Côte d'Ivoire        1,132 1,071
23 São Tomé and Príncipe 1,094 1,160
24 Senegal                1,066 984
25 Mauritania        1,042 1,044
26 Chad                863 699
27 Kenya                838 842
28 Benin                828 765
29 Comoros                816 788
30 Ghana                739 639

It means we create the third highest value of in house wealth (GDP) on the continent but due to our large population it isn't a lot per person (per capita income).

With our large population we can create a lot more wealth, not to talk about our vast arable land mass and huge natural resources.

excoba101:
@LRNZH
I could bud a fairy and within hours i am in Indonesia from here(Malaysia)?
Over here and other parts of Asian people who are maid are usually from Indonesia and Filipines in larger mass. Maybe we should rather compare Nigeria to Brazil.

Asia gained technology from the west as we have read. China for instance got independence but Hong Kong remained under the British rule for a while till the 90s, within this period Britain could have made HK another UK from home in education, technology.

The White Americans we know today are actually Europeans mainly British*** Do you buy that?

We also should notice the prosperity of countries that either has white indigenes or a large numbers of white investor.eg SA and Asian Countries

Nice point!

I believe Indonesia is still ahead of Nigeria in development index. You can check wiki for some insight.

Think about that this. Why would a Briton put his energy into transforming HK into UK if he is not going to gain from it.
That said, Hong Kong is quite developed! That is some credit to the Brits.

We owe ourselves the responsibility to turn Africa into what we dream. But "chop I chop" and "siddon look" are the worst forms of the lack of patriotism because their effects are felt by even babies yet to be borne.

Wether there's a conspiracy related to race and development is another issue entirely. But let's make our own effort to improve our people/countries lot first.

@Escoba101

Good point.

Maybe Ghana should be compared with Malaysia while Nigeria is looked at from Indonesia's perspective.

But it is clear that most African countries overall do worse than their counterparts if you make such comparisons and that is my point.
"Why are we carrying last?"

IMO population matters. The larger the more challenging but with a higher potential if managed well.

Think about all the outsourcing of jobs by major corporations in the US and the rest of the developed world to less developed countries in Asia and South America.
With a large population like Nigeria's that is a huge opportunity to create a lot of employment (and hence wealth).
A large population means larger market, cheaper labour and more wealth creation. But we do not have even the basic infrastructure to enable entrepreneurs set up this kind of firms.

Nigeria is one of the most blessed country in the world. Very enterprising people, natural resource, very arable land mass and strategic position in West Africa.
If we think about where we could have been now then you'd see why I insist that we have fared badly.


Btw @Londoner,
Those Abuja pics are lovely!

excoba101:
@LRNZH

Lets talk like matured brothers. How could you tell that Ghana just got better than Nigeria? In what context actually? Could you please post some links for us to figure out the comparison? Are you refaring to the fact that their currency was upgraded of recent?
What happened to our numerous Nigerian investors in Ghana? what happened to our contrition to their economic growth?
Do you know how hard it is to manage 160m population of Nigeria compared to 20m of Ghana. Do you know how many European countries are below Nigeria's GDP and they are not on the internet washing their dirty linen for the world to see?

Finally, what do you think is the problem in Nigeria really? No infrastructure of poor management? Or bad governance?

My point is not that Ghana is necessarily doing better than Nigeria in terms of absolute development index (see below info from Wikipedia)
Ideally we shouldn't be comparing.

But if you compare our respective development to our respective potentials (in terms of resource base and population) then you'd see that Nigeria has fared worse.

Nigeria should be compared with Countries like Indonesia, Malaysia , Pakistan and Brazil (to some extent)
Those our our real cohorts in terms of potentials, resource base - population and land mass and roughly political history.

GHANA:
Population
- 2010 estimate 23,837,000[2] (48th)
- Density 99.9/km2 (103rd)
258.8/sq mi
GDP (nominal) 2010 estimate
- Total $31.2 billion[3]
- Per capita $1,318.3

NIGERIA:
Population
- 2009 estimate 158,259,000[2] (8th)
- Density 167.5/km2 (71st)
433.8/sq mi
GDP (PPP) 2009 estimate
- Total $341.572 billion[3]
- Per capita $2,249[3]
GDP (nominal) 2009 estimate
- Total $173.428 billion[3]
- Per capita $1,142[3]


The problem with Nigeria is corruption and nepotism (in a nutshell)! This manifests in bad governance.
We do not have people with the will power to challenge the status quo at the expense of even their lives. We need to demand more from ourselves and our leaders.
This can be expounded upon but I shall stop here my brother.

Wow!

It is mind boggling to see the effort our peeps expend to prove the "mine is better than yours" syndrome when we are comparing rotten apples.

For a sec, stop and think fellow Africans - Nigerians, Ghanaians, South Africans etc etc.

Our boundaries were defined by European colonialists not us.

Look at the ugly pictures everyone has been putting up. Extreme poverty and underdevelopment are a common theme in Africa irrespective of borders.
It feels terrible looking at these horrible pictures.

Lets talk about the issues facing us as Africans and how we can help develop mother Africa (I for one will never give up on this, ) instead of trading bandwiths of insult, arguments and counter-arguments.

Many posts on this thread can be attributed to mental laziness and a general lack of intellectualism. Instead of discussing and disagreeing on specifics of what makes a country "better" than the other in Africa we are openly insulting ourselves.

Would any of you (especially in diaspora) be comfortable to let your kid of 12 years come online and witness our psyche as Nigerians (or Ghanaians) based on the kind of comments we post on NL?

Please my brethren let us up the ante so that our discussions are informative, educative and largely interesting.


I am Nigerian and a proud one at that.

But I am not proud to know that Nigeria has generated about 600 Billion USD of income from crude oil production over time and 350 Billion USD of this is directly linked to looted funds by our leaders. We do not have much to show for all the income we have generated.
We have largely undermined our potentials.
We may or may not be doing better than say Ghana at the moment but with our potential Ghana is even a poor yardstick to compare with in terms of progressive development.

If I were Ghanaian I won't rejoice to be told that we just got "better" than Nigeria.

It is like someone terminally ill with Cancer being compared to an AIDS patient.

Finally, Africa - Nigeria, Ghana, etc etc we are not close to where we should be or would want to see ourselves. That is more important than the lame comparisons we are making.