KoloOyinbo: Thank to both macof and ladionline. I really dont mind the nonsense that PAGAN9JA spouts. I don't seem to understand his point (most probably because he doesn't have one.

I have encountered all forms of bigotry, racism and similar rubbish all over the world and just ignore it as beneath me.

The point is that Naomi and I are in love and will wed! Those that matter do not mind and those that mind do not matter!

I meet VERY FEW people who have a problem with us or indeed with an Oyinbo being interested in Naija culture.

This guy trys to tell someone who has travelled all over the world to visit the outside world

I don't know this guy but he sound like he has never left his village. (Probably has but the mentality has remained - how sad).

Anyway thanks again for the kind comments. Look me up next time Im in Lasgidi or Pitawaka!!!!

Perhaps YOU are in love but Pagan9Ja is actually trying to do you a favor and wake you up to the fact that you are delusional to believe SHE is in love with you. And by the way those of us who don't leave our villages are usually much better grounded in our own traditions than those who do and frankly there is nothing sad about that.

PAGAN 9JA:
*smh. I just new it. .

Its mostly old white people who come to developing and poor nations in search of young and beautiful girls to marry.

Meanwhile, the girls marry for the money, etc.

thats what whites travel to developing and poor nations for. s.exual release.

When I found out you are Irishman in 9ja, I just new it there was something like this involved. I then went through your posts and have been proven right.


Again my hunch on your age has been proven right.

Foreigners like to think that they as individuals are the exception to this rule. They foolishly cling to the idea thhat Africans are really marrying them for love rather than money/status even though logic points to the much more obvious conclusion. When she's spending his money and cheating with a younger guy he'll wake up.

ghostofsparta:
That's her wife, Iyanifa Ajisebo Wande Abimbola. She's speaks seven languages fluently. She currently teaches Portuguese and Spanish in the school. She is the mother of the little boy 'Iroko' in the first picture who is a reincarnate of Prof. Wande Abimbola's father.

Thanks for the info. I've no respect for this man.

PAGAN 9JA:


as Desmond Tutu said : "When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said 'Let us pray.' We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land."

The fact that the people who repeat what Desmond Tutu said are all still Christians leads me to believe they are lacking in the intelligence department.

Fulaman198:

Racist and self-hating people are a waste of time to talk to.

Indeed brother.

texanomaly:

It's not the truth. What is wrong with you? That is a very childish way of showing your opinion. How old are you?

The level of immaturity on display in this thread is pathetic. Thanks for calling him/her out.

onila: young graduates ready to build Somalia

I guess...Somalia can't possibly get any worse.

RandomAfricanAm: Yeah the point I realy hope got across was that though all those regions were exposed to a lot of the same ideas(because of similar trade contacts) but they didn't just copy other peoples societies they used the ideas from those other societies to expand on there own. This is what African people need to realize.

There is this weird idea among a lot of people that the choice is between...
1. Staying exactly the same
(which I have no issue with provided it's not enmass to the point where we can't defend ourself militarily, socialy, & economicly)

or

2. Completely trashing everything and copying another people.

That's simply a false choice and it saddens me that people don't see that (though without a clear historical memory how could they?)

Yes this is a false choice. The only constant thing is change. Nothing and no one stays exactly the same. West Africa can evolve by listening and catering to its own needs instead of foreign needs.

Sybella:

So now Ouattara the puppet is the Representative of all the people? Do you know how many ivorians despise him for this matter? I don't believe so...Before him, how many CIV presidents had a french wife/first lady? lol I don't think you have any idea about what you are talking about.

Sorry but your protests do not change the first words I wrote though you chose to focus on the last. I said:Honestly EVERY Ivorian I've met or known all the way from the top. Out of 4 Ivorians I distinctly remember asking what their native language is because three proudly responded French. One meekly responded Mandingo. I remember one who studied philosophy and gushed nonstop about Foucault (sp) but had no interest in even investigating indigenous philosophy. That is the image I have of Ivorians. Nope...never met one who reflected any sense of pride in being African.Of course the folks I know may not be indicative of Ivorians. Perhaps they're just a bunch of francophile outliers!

Sybella:



Now what the hell? where do u get this assumption from?

Honestly every Ivorian I've met or known all the way from the top (Monsieur Ouattara) reflects a love of virtually all things French.

Fulaman198:

I agree with you about Cote D'Ivoire but not necessarily Senegal. Senegal still has their Laamb wrestling which has taken off. They play much more traditional music than Nigeria does. They speak their languages like Wolof, Fulfulde(Pular Fulani language), and Serer better than French. Nigerians take pride in speaking European languages more so than their own languages. Senegalese don't have such inferiority complex.

Laamb is awesome. My biggest issue with Senegalese is their disdain for traditional spirituality. The only region that has a semblance of respect for the spiritual traditions is in Casamance and they wanted to seceed (sp). Most Senegalese practice a version of Islam that has a lot of African elements (i.e. virtually everything we see in those laamb competitions before the fight starts) but the ones I know show so much disdain towards ceddo and other Senegalese traditions. It's really sad. At least Nigeria has universities of Ifa and I even finally met a traditional Igbo!

Fulaman198:

Nigeria is the country with the lowest self & esteem in Africa. They don't want to be Africans, they want to be European.

You probably feel that way because you are Nigerian and your love of Nigeria saddens you into feeling that they have lost the most. However the race to the bottom of this barrel is something all African countries engage in. For example Cote D'Ivoire and Senegal provide Nigeria with very stiff competition.

Fulaman198:

Self-hating Africans are the ones bringing this continent down.

No doubt about that.

Fulaman198:

I honestly don't care if he marries a white woman, nothing wrong with that. My biggest issue with him is his approach to black people and how he suckers up to white people while speaking in disdain of black people.

Self-hating Africans have been exhibiting both behaviors for about a century. One is usually accompanied by the other....nothing new and nothing to waste your time over. A life spent wishing that one were something else is not going to be changed by a message board exchange with someone comfortable and proud of who they are.

Fulaman198:
I now know what kind of man you are. You are one if those black folks that would sell out black people to please white people especially since this video was more offensive to Africans than Whites. One horrible joke was made about whites, yet almost the entirety of the video was negative stereotypes of Africans.

Your analysis is spot on. He's not worth your time. Let him continue with his goal to marry white, have white children, and integrated fully as a faithful lapdog without you focusing any of your efforts on him.

Fulaman198:

There are certain words that can not be added to Fulani language and based on what Fulani speaking country you are from, you would use the regional word utilised.

Thanks to Ibrahim Malick Sarr from Senegal, there are beginning to be technological words for the Fulfulde/Pular language. By nature, we are a pastoralist nomadic group of people. We do not have certain words for things until we come in contact with a certain group of people. E.g. We have borrowed some words from the Hausa and the Hausa have borrowed some words from us. That is how language workds. Even some of the words you mentioned are not natural English words but adopted words from other languages.

Absolutely...~66% of English comes from other languages.

Fulaman198: There is no right or wrong in this argument. Some Africans want to be Westernised or become wannabe Europeans, no problem in regards to that.

No problem at all. I appreciate it when skinfolks clearly identify themselves so the rest of us know exactly who they are. Skinfolks are the ones who look us but do not think like Africans. Those who think like us are our kinfolk.

Kay 17:

How does Paganism reflect the idea of Multiverses?

So honestly I've never heard the word before but putting the two parts together I assume you mean multiple universes. This is completely consistent with paganism as the spiritual worlds are indeed their own universes. Furthermore because pagan spiritualities are ethnic and do not seek to convert we usually respect the idea that other ethnic groups have realities/spiritual universes totally different from our own. For example I respect the Yoruba way of interpretation which is very similar to my own as much as I respect the Tuscarora the way of interpreting spiritual truth which is very different from my own.

PAGAN 9JA:
^Beautiful.

Thank you brother.

Kay 17: @OP

Don't the sons of these "ancestors" you talk about, have the freedom to subscribe whatever belief system they want?

The answer to that question is evident given the presence of so many Africans who have chosen to disregard their own knowledge and replace it with someone else's. The question is what the consequence is.

Also isn't paganism outdated, given the fact that it cannot keep up with the modern world and provide the meaningful interpretation it needs!

No traditional beliefs are not outdated and they provide a very meaningful lens through which to see the world for the millions of us who didn't choose to opt out. Our traditional spiritualities are not stagnant. They exist today because they have changed while remaining consistent with who we are as ethnic people. They fail to "keep up" with people who want to abandon their own ethnicities and develop into something they are not intended to be.

The "world" got bigger, bigger than a tribe, bigger than a continent, bigger than a planet, bigger than the solar system, bigger than a universe! We contemplate multiverses and silently animated particles, how does paganism fit in?!

There is a world on your fingernail consisting of cells. There is a world beneath our feet where creatures build and take things apart. You are talking about scale and that is relative. Some humans would like to think that what they are doing today is something new and awe-inspiring but it is not. You are ignorant of traditional beliefs so you don't know that all these things have been contemplated before. Unfortunately you also fail to see that it is those who chase technological progress at all costs who are the same ones ignoring a vital tenet of ethnic religions: balance between the many systems that need to coexist to keep us alive. Climate change reminds many of us that humans can not choose to disrespect balance and yet that knowledge has not trickled down to you. We are not bigger than nature.

It is unfortunate that paganism has to die for the future to live.

This couldn't be father from the truth. Time as a linear "object" is a western construct that disconnects pasts from the future. Time as a West African construct is cyclic/circular. The future has already lived and the past keeps giving birth to itself. Ancestors are yet to come and those of us who respect them will usher them in and guard the knowledge they have passed down to us. You have chosen to disregard knowledge and that is your choice but you have a lot of gall to say that those of us who have not made this choice are making the wrong one. Knowledge is never outdated as long as it is true.

macof: The Gods bless us wit wisdom and loyal offsprings as they blessed our ancestors.

Those of u who disrespect ur ancestors are nothing but bastard children, who have been cast away and rejected from the goodness of the land which ur ancestors fought for

Indeed these people show that each culture is but one generation away from extinction. Some of us would love what our ancestors built to disappear and I am one who refuses to let it happen.

uchejava:
The average Nigerian is either a Christian or Muslim yet corruption is at its peak in the country or is it that their religion supports corruption or their religion isn’t having any positive impact on their lives? My problem with religious people is that they follow their leaders stupidly!

Do you have the same complaints about your own ethnic spirituality?

PAGAN 9JA:
Are our Traditional Pagan Religions the most discriminated religions in the world?

We are discriminated in our own country. what more?

I think they are and I'm speaking solely of ATR's. There is very little respect given to ATR's. They are either not mentioned or mentioned with disdain as if they are "primitive" relics that will dissappear as people "progress." I get so tired of having to explain that my spirituality really is a spirituality and not some simply a mishmash of spells and magic....especially to other Africans. That is the hardest thing....arguing for the validity of our ATR's with people who should know better but don't know much of anything about their own ancestors' ways.

Vicjustice:
Would i be wrong if i considered you a core racist?

Repost to address your short term memory and/or lack of reading ability:

You don't seem to be able to wrap your head around the fact that Africans who love ourselves don't also necessarily hate non-Africans. Pride doesn't translate to antagonization of others. However it does translate to a demand for respect. We also demand that people acknowledge Europeans' actions and the results of those actions. You see the results in the mirror every day: a self-hate that refuses to recognize itself. You keep chasing European women so that in 3 or 4 generations none of your offspring will look anything like you. They certainly won't act like your ancestors. The prospect fills you with hope! Don't try to call it antagonizing that I have made the opposite choice.

If true much applause.

Kiss_Ikebe:
"Basic knowledge" and yet not observed. Come on!

How has it not been observed? I assume you are speaking of me in particular? And please do note that it should be your Irish friend behaving in a way to seek our respect as she is the visitor on this board. I am in no way seeking her respect.

macof:

Ifa has always been universal we Yorubas don't keep Ifa to ourselves alone, those who are serious and interested in Ifa can be initiated.

But the rules of Ifa must stand and Ifa cannot change because of a different culture.
So they can pick it up and wear it but not tailor it to their fit

Do u know if any odu-Ifa is against homosexuality?

Nope I'm not a Yoruba practitioner. Interesting to hear your thoughts on Ifa being universal rather than ethnic.

macof:

YES and No

Yes because where iam from it is unheard of, in all of yorubaland homosexuality and inbreeding isn't encouraged

No because where one thing is bad, it could be good in somewhere else,
In America homosexuality is cool and even some are initiated into Ifa.

So it's not my spirituality dat is against It, it's my ethnicity dat is.

when growing up, there are things that u perceive as right and wrong due to ur community, and dat becomes part of ur consciousness(Ori) as a taboo, when u go against these rules it damages ur consciousness and affects ur soul.

Are you ok with non-Yoruba viewing Ifa as a "universal" spirituality that anyone can pick up, wear, and tailor to fit their shape? IMO the issues arise when the spirituality is taken out of its ethnic context and twisted and turned to suit the needs of another culture. Is it still Ifa and are you ok with them using it to suit their needs?

deols:

Make sure to make a video when you go for a surgery with a traditionalist. Then, I would believe you.

and be careful with herbs..you may end up with a liver disease.

You should also advise people to be careful with their pills as pharmaceutical companies have routinely put their bottom lines before patients' health. Thalidomide and many other drugs have caused more problems than they have cured.

deols: as if any of those praising him would rather a traditionalist than go to a hospital for treatment.

I have always sought out a traditionalist before going to a hospital. Western trained doctors are trained to treat physical malady only. They do not consider the spiritual dimension at all. Because I have sometimes been unable to find an African traditionalist I have, on two occasions, been treated by Asian traditionalists. It is horribly sad that while Asians are still developing their indigenous treatments to maximize their knowledge base Africans like you are looking down on what we have as useless. But oh so typical.

IrishBebey:
Respect is not by demand, you earn it

This is basic knowledge. Do you think you're here to educate me? I have nothing to learn from you.