₦airaland Forum

ILuvBreasts:
you are a myopic entity, it will take you a lifetime of 40 or more years to reach where a smart 5 years post grad pharm has reached. medicine is versatile, i laff in swahili , go work for nafdac,ndlea,customs like pharms na.... you wish,.....see this malaria and typhoid diagnosing quacks,,,,na even common EBSU you dey use make noise since ...your other inteelligent counterparts in U,I,UNIBEN,OAU,ABU and other correct schools know better ,,,,dem dey give pharms rep coz dey know the potential of being succesful is higher ,,,fact......you still dey 100 level and medicine still dey shark you so i no blame you. enter street and see the hustle doctors do just to get housemanship space not to talk of full time jobs while our pharms counterparts rake in cool cash with entrepreneurship mind but as a doctor you must be employed under someone.... so shut up KID

Your name says it all. You're senseless. I'm in my clinical years, slowpoke. Quack pharmacist! You people hate the truth.

I never said that the current WHO DG is a medical doctor. I said that the post is mainly for doctors. Besides, this is the first time a non-medical doctor was appointed as WHO DG.

Medicine is the same everywhere, irrespective of the school. It's the same NUC and MDCN that accredit and regulate it in EBSU and in those schools too. Even medical doctors can also head NAFDAC. Paul Orhii, a medical doctor, was its DG before. A medical doctor is ahead of pharmacists in those places you mentioned.

All those federal universities you mentioned are living in past glory. They're not better than state universities. I did my first degree in a federal university. So, I know that they're all the same. In fact, there's more infrastructural decay in those schools you mentioned. Take OAU for instance, its academic calendar is static. Its hostels are outdated. It lags behind a lot. EBSU medical school has a newly constructed state of the art teaching hospital. In the South East, EBSU Medical School is the second best state medical school after Abia State University (ABSU) Medical School.

Pharmacists are not good entrepreneurs; it's those non-pharmacists who passed through apprenticeship that are good entrepreneurs, and they own most of the pharmaceutical shops in Nigeria. You're just a marketer. It would have been better if you had studied marketing, instead of leaving pharmacy to work as marketers.

Robert129:
Stop lying, you're not a medical student. that one no even concern me.

How will you say pharmacists don't have patient to patient contact? who do they dispense the drugs to? they also assist doctors in wardrounds doing therapeutic drug monitoring, pharmacovigilance and advising patients which is very normal in the USA, UK and many other countries. But you doctors that are limited to hospitals will just start saying okoto. Thank God Pharm D has come to stay in Nigeria, una go hear am soon.
Pharmacy school curriculum is poor but they still cover their curriculum. and the pharmacists they produce are the one producing drugs in industries.

I repeat, mention the industries in Nigeria where foreign pharmacists produce drug, if you can't mention one with evidence then you're a big fat liar. because the industry I've been to, they are all Nigerian there from the production unit, to the quality control unit, to the sales unit.

If you really want to know if I'm speaking the truth, then come to Ebonyi State University Medical School in Abakaliki, and you'll surely see me. Ebonyi State University doesn't even offer dentistry. Why should I lie that I'm a medical student if I am not? I'm not your type who defends your profession with lies. If you come to EBSU, you must surely see me. Besides, dentistry is a noble course. So, if I'm still in it, I'll be the first to say it here.

Pharmacists in Nigeria don't have pharmacist-to-patient contacts. You read my comment upside-down. Pharmacists in Nigeria stay in the hospital pharmacies, until doctors' prescriptions come to them. They dispense the drugs to patients when doctors' prescriptions come to them. Besides, most government hospitals in Nigeria don't always have most of the drugs prescribed by doctors. So, pharmacists will tell you that they don't have them and that you should go and buy them outside.

All those things you wrote like ward rounds, etc, are not done by pharmacists in Nigeria. So, it's in America that they do that.

You're ignorant if you think that doctors are limited to the hospital. Medicine is the most versatile profession in the world, unlike you pharmacists that have been turned to mere marketers in Nigeria, and cannot manufacture drugs in Nigeria. I'm ashamed of you people whenever you people mention that you're medical sales reps. What a disgrace!


Akuko! Foreign or foreign-trained pharmacists are the ones mainly in charge of the few drugs those local pharmaceutical companies do produce. Poorly trained Nigerian pharmacists are groomed by them before they can head drug production unit. Go to Emzor, Juhel, Novartis, GSK, etc and see for yourself. Stop living in fantasy. Most Nigerian-trained pharmacists are quacks. Name the industry you have been to, and give me its website. Let me verify it.

Robert129:
You just dey yarn okoto.
Saying Nigerian pharmacists cannot produce drugs is like saying Nigerian doctors cannot perform surgery. do you even think before you make up a statement? show me any pharmaceutical industry in Nigeria where Nigerian trained pharmacists don't produce drug, let me bust your lie.
are you even a doctor? medical students do posting in pharmacology, where?? is it not only 400l they do Pharm? baba you just dey peddle lies all over your post to prove cheap points.
so a pharmacist doesn't have a patient contact to practice the pharmacology they learn so those ones that work with patients in hospitals and community pharmacies, na biology them dey practice in patients? the ones in pharma industries use the knowledge of agric?
baba go and sleep, you just dey talk rubbish up and down.
you claim you studied medicine, you claim you studied dentistry, yen yen yen.

I didn't say that I completed dentistry. Stop misquoting me. I said that I was a dental student in a federal university. I had an issue. Then I changed to a state university close to me that doesn't offer dentistry and started medicine there. I'm still a medical student.

I meant clinical postings when I said that. During clinical postings, medical students look at drug prescriptions. They ask questions. When they get back home, they go back to their pharmacology textbooks or lecture materials, read them more and understand more. They do this throughout their medical career, not just in school. By this, their pharmacology knowledge increases. The reverse is the case for pharmacy students. They don't have patient-to-patient contact, and they don't get to practise regularly in real life. That's what i meant. Besides, pharmacology is both a branch of medicine and pharmacy. It's not a borrowed course. You can google it.

Most Nigerian-trained pharmacists cannot produce drugs, and most of them end up as marketers (medical sales reps). That's the simple truth. Go and verify if pharmacy students have contacts with patients. It's through clinical postings that doctor/student-to-patient contact is established.

Name hospitals in Nigeria where pharmacists have contact directly with patients. Hospital pharmacists in Nigeria stay in their pharmacies until drug prescriptions come to them. Go and make your findings and report what you saw. I didn't peddle any lie here. I just told you the simple truth. I don't want to argue about this again. You and I know that the practical aspect of pharmacy in pharmacy schools is poor. That's why the government should increase funding in education to cover that deficit. Pharmacy is good, but the way it's studied in Nigeria is not encouraging. You're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. End of discussion .

arinzos:
In as Much as i understand your point,MLS is still part of Laboratory Medicine/Pathology.
MLS is coming from the Technical Angle while Doctors Come from the Clincal Angle.
I know because i have Seen it.
Nothing Supersedes the other. I am Judging from international Practice.
Remember in the UK both pass through Royal college of Pathology or the US with ASCP.
Forget about the politics in Nigeria.

In the US, PhD Medical Laboratory Scientist and Pathologist is at Par,but when Clincal skill is Needed,the Pathologist should take over especially in the Hospital Settings.i give it to them.
UNIZIK Teaching Hospital have MLSt as their HOD....So its not Always the Pathologist that are HODs of Pathology Lab.
With time everything will Normalize.
I am not Against Doctors and Never will be.
If i am interested in being Called a "doctor" i would have changed to Dentistry

Let's stop this Comparison

You're the only person that said it the way it is. It's not others who tried to lie. However, there are some exceptions to what you said. In NAUTH, Nnewi you mentioned, doctors are still the clinical heads, while Medical laboratory scientists are the technical heads. I did my master's in the medical microbiology and parasitology department of NAUTH. I know Prof. Akujobi, Prof. F.E. Emele, Prof. Nneka Agbakoba and one other woman professor in Medical laboratory science at Okofia, Nnewi. They all taught me. Akujobi is the only medical doctor among them, and she's a consultant clinical microbiologist. During that time, she was the clinical head, while a medical laboratory scientist was the technical head.

As I have said earlier, I'm a medical student in a state university. Besides, you may not be interested in bearing doctor, but medical laboratory scientists have been agitating for MLSC.D. One thing I like about you is that you said the truth. Medical laboratory science is good. I even wanted to do AIMLS (that 2-year conversion programme for graduates of biological sciences) after my NYSC, but due to the problem in Jos then, I refused to do it. Jos and Ahmadu Bello University Teaching Hospital did the programme last, before MLSCN stopped it. Four of my coursemates did that 2-year programme, and are now practising medical laboratory scientists. I also did my industrial training in a medical laboratory science department of a teaching hospital, during my first degree, but I heard that MLSCN had stopped undergraduates of biological sciences from doing industrial training in medical laboratory science departments. I also saw then that the HOD through whom I sent my application said that he would send it to another person to approve. It was later that I discovered that the ones he sent it to were the CMAC and the clinical head. He was the technical head. So, I have great respect for medical laboratory science. Most of them here think I'm denigrating their professions. That's not my mission. I just wanted to speak the truth about them.

I used to denigrate dentistry until I discovered it's not what I thought. I began to praise the maxillofacial surgeons, oral pathologists, prosthodontists and consultants in oral medicine when I saw their giant strides. I saw what the maxillofacial surgeons did and are still doing to help children born with cleft lip and palate, and Nigerians suffering from ameloblastoma. I was surprised to discover that dentistry is very deep like that. Before I speak about any course, I must make in-depth findings about it. Every course is good, my brother. What I hate is distortion of facts. I'll not discuss this topic again because of you. You're good.

Snowale:
Firstly, I never said medical laboratory Science, I sent you the link, check it yourself.http://web.mlscn.gov.ng/index.php/mlscn-mandate/, they regulates all medical laboratories.

Just the 2012, the consultant pathologist if your acclaoacc became 2, just 2. And in 2015, the residency program of the hospital started with a few dentists. Who have been doing the work before? General pathologist, and I will still say it again, in many hospitals, general pathologists does the job.

The law was passed 2015, all pathology laboratories, should be headed by a medical laboratory Scientists. So anything 2016 and below you will find out 90% of all labs in all hospitals are headed by a medical laboratory Scientists.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ng.linkedin.com/in/onengiyeofori-ibama-b418a649&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwil7a7kgIjqAhXEzKQKHeoGABkQFjAEegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0tWXKwpWZJ87nBo9oe8_zZ
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ng.linkedin.com/in/maudlyn-imoh-90a32b160&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwil7a7kgIjqAhXEzKQKHeoGABkQFjAFegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0VxQ85yXar1h8TWAwWExlv

https://ni.linkedin.com/in/henry-aisagbonhi-bmls-mph-ghpcert-56176382

I sent you link of Uduth to check yourself if they have one, please if you can't give evidence for your claim, forget it. I'm not interested with what's in your head, I'm interested with what really happens

Which evidence again other than UDUTH has a dental and maxillofacial department in which oral pathology is domiciled, and NUC has approved that dentistry will commence there, after accreditation of facilities there? If you need the link where the VC of UDUSOK said it, I can send it to you.

Those laboratory scientists you mentioned are heads in those private and primary care hospitals, because consultant pathologists don't work there. Pathologists work in teaching hospitals and federal medical centres.

There's a state of the art dental hospital built by Amaechi in Port Harcourt. Before then, samples might have been sent there. Google it.

Snowale:
Check Dr. O.M. Akinosun, of UCH, clinical HOD.2017 till date.

See the evidence that shows that Dr O.M. Akinosun is a medical doctor. He's not a medical laboratory scientist. I write with facts.

Snowale:
Check Dr. O.M. Akinosun, of UCH, clinical HOD.2017 till date.

Akinosun is not a medical laboratory scientist. He's a medical doctor; he's a consultant chemical pathologist. Stop spreading fake information like wildfire here.

By this, you've even confirmed on your own that it's medical doctors that are the main (clinical) heads of medical laboratory science department in Nigeria.

Snowale:
All the departments you mentioned are under medical laboratory Science, https://www.google.com/url?q=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_laboratory_scientist&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiuksDRhYjqAhVlMewKHcR0CRMQFjAAegQIDRAB&usg=AOvVaw0mvoU5cSFOwPZ7yvWoma5d, they are not technologist or technicians, because they already have one, MLT, with is a diploma course. Check each of the each of the various laboratory, be it chem. Path, histo. Etc and find out 90% of them are headed by a Scientists. I think the law was passed for them, 2015

Check federal neuro-psychiatric hospitals, Yaba, Lagos.https://www.fnphyaba.gov.ng/index.php/directorate/clinical/laboratory

Check Dr. O.M. Akinosun, of UCH, clinical HOD.2017 till date.

Medical Scientists are not technologist, and are not working for any body, but the hospital

They're branches of pathology, of which medical laboratory science was created to help those pathologists in each of those branches of pathology. Medical laboratory scientists are technologists to pathologists. They used to be called technologists until the name was modified to medical laboratory science, while the diploma course is still called medical laboratory technology.

Before, the highest qualification attained by medical laboratory scientists (or medical laboratory technologists then) was diploma (Higher National Diploma - HND), and that's why they bore medical laboratory technologists then. So, it can still be called medical laboratory technology, because like Nigerian pharmacists, they changed the name without improving their education.

Abroad some people still call them medical laboratory technologists. The diploma ones are now called medical laboratory technicians. They head those units as technical heads. That shows they're still technologists. You're not an insider. So, you lack this information.

Snowale:
general pathology lab has been divided in to 5 labs. Unless if you are talking about the oral pathology laboratories. I modified my comments though

Use of the word "general pathology" here means general histopathology or morbid anatomy or anatomic pathology. That general pathology you meant is simply called pathology, and general pathology or anatomic pathology specifically, is one of its branches (i.e. one of the branches of pathology).

Snowale:
Pathology laboratory have been divided into 5 main laboratories, unless you are talking about the oral pathology labs, which is a specialized histopathology lab, and some hospital like UCH named their histopathology labs, Pathology laboratory.

They won't send it somewhere else if they have the histopathology laboratory. Histopathologists can do it. My personal experience, we took an oral biopsy of a friend to histopathology lab, years ago.

They do send it somewhere else to an oral pathology laboratory even if there's a general histopathology laboratory there, except an oral pathologist works in that general histopathology laboratory too. You don't actually know who is who in that general histopathology laboratory, yet you believed gullibly that it's general pathologists that carry out all the tests there. Until now, you never knew that oral pathology existed in Nigeria. So, you're wrong to presume that all the doctors in the general histopathology laboratory are all medical doctors. This is fallacious. Besides, dentists prefer having oral pathologists read and interpret oral biopsy samples, because they want to get the accurate result and offer the best treatment.

You took an oral biopsy of a friend to a histopathology laboratory? Which state did that happen? In which hospital was that diagnosis made? Was it a dentist that ordered for the investigation? What was the provisional diagnosis? What was the definitive diagnosis? I need more explanations and evidence.

Oral pathologists are histopathologists too. They all work on biopsied tissues. That's why the word "histo" is attached to that branch of pathology. Only two histopathologists work on the oral, maxillofacial and ENT regions. They're oral pathologists and head and neck pathologists. I'm not for or against either of them. My interest is to set the record straight.

Head and neck pathologists' focus is primarily on the ENT region. Although the functions of both of them are somewhow interrelated, however, they're also different. I even mentioned it earlier. In medicine, two or three specialties may be interrelated. Moreover, both of them passed through the same National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria and West African Postgraduate Medical College. Even an oral pathologist, by virtue of having rotated in general pathology during residency, can also read and interpret ENT slides. So, no general pathologist who subspecialized in other parts of the body (except in ENT), receives oral biopsy samples. Despite that, dentists prefer that oral pathologists read and interpret oral biopsy slides because he or she is more experienced in the oral and maxillofacial region and work there everyday. That's the importance of specialization and subspecialization in medicine.

Besides, our earlier argument was based on your erroneous comment that dentists cannot be pathologists too, especially in Nigeria, that it's on paper and not real, and that oral samples are wholly sent to general pathologists, and that I should google it. You later wrote that you didn't say that. Well, the truth of the matter is that numerous oral pathologists exist in Africa, not just Nigeria alone.

Since you know that pathology is divided into 5 main laboratories, then you should have known that medical laboratory science is not pathology (laboratory medicine). Name those five departments. Medical laboratory scientists are technologists to pathologists. From time immemorial, no medical laboratory science existed. It was doctors who created medical laboratory science, wrote its curriculum and started training medical laboratory scientists, so as to relieve stress.

Snowale:
Firstly, I never said medical laboratory Science, I sent you the link, check it yourself.http://web.mlscn.gov.ng/index.php/mlscn-mandate/, they regulates all medical laboratories.

Just the 2012, the consultant pathologist if your acclaoacc became 2, just 2. And in 2015, the residency program of the hospital started with a few dentists. Who have been doing the work before? General pathologist, and I will still say it again, in many hospitals, general pathologists does the job.

The law was passed 2015, all pathology laboratories, should be headed by a medical laboratory Scientists. So anything 2016 and below you will find out 90% of all labs in all hospitals are headed by a medical laboratory Scientists.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ng.linkedin.com/in/onengiyeofori-ibama-b418a649&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwil7a7kgIjqAhXEzKQKHeoGABkQFjAEegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0tWXKwpWZJ87nBo9oe8_zZ
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://ng.linkedin.com/in/maudlyn-imoh-90a32b160&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwil7a7kgIjqAhXEzKQKHeoGABkQFjAFegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw0VxQ85yXar1h8TWAwWExlv

They don't regulate all the laboratories. I knew the information before you sent it. Pathology laboratories are not the same as medical laboratory science laboratories. That has been the bone of contention for long. They're not pathologists.

The dental department didn't treat pathology cases then; they would refer them to states or hospitals that have oral pathology. After all, general hospitals in Lagos do refer people to LUTH, whether it's medical or dental case.

Snowale:
seriously, you need enlightenment. You are comparing patent store with pharmaceutical industry, are you telling me all the over 115 pharmaceutical industries in Nigeria, with different branches all over the country are just there doing notheno, they don't produce drugs. How would any Nigerian say no pharmaceutical industry in Nigeria produces drugs, chai. What you say was pharm tech., Most graduates in pharmacist sees better opportunity, they can work in pharmaceutical industries, the can work in hospitals, they can work in various government agency, that's why you don't easily see them in shops selling drugs, because we have lots of opportunities. Only few end up doing it, and still they make it in life.

Hmmmmm, set up a small clinic with just stethoscope and sphygmomanoneter. LOL. I laugh in Yoruba. You expect people to pay you for checking their heart beat and checking their blood pressure, even bigger privates hospital do shut down, some sack all nurses and doctors, just to employ those that will accept smaller salaries. Even consultants in government hospitals that have more than just stethoscope, in nigeria, who pays anything like consultation fees, because he prescribed a drug or directed me for lab test, I will pay money. It's better you quickly go to market with you rope and rent a shop, and expect people to pay you. A pharmacy is far more easier to set up compare to an hospital. You can search it yourself.

MBBS and BDS are given assistant lecturers, and pharm.d also. This is a new lecturer I know, he has only his pharm.D. and even radiography department in my school, most of their lectures don't have PDGE or masters. Talk with fact and sense please.

Many pharmacist are in pharmaceutical industry. You don't even know pharmaceutical industries in Nigeria are more than 100. Most drugs are not imported, for God sake, why can't you just check your paracetamols. Why must you show the world how ignorant you are.

Pharmacist may start from sales rep, as the lowest and as the move on, they are promoted, till they get to the point where they collect millions monthly

Name ten drugs each of the indigenous ones produces. Give me their links too. Name up to 12 Nigerian pharmacists in charge of production there, and the innumerable ones you claimed were employed there.

The real pharmacists producing the few drugs they can produce are foreign or foreign-trained pharmacists. 98 percent of Nigerian-trained pharmacists are quacks. I still maintain that 90 percent of drugs used in Nigeria are imported. How many pharmacists were employed? Give me the link. How many pharmacists own pharmaceutical shops?

Without those pharmaceutical shops mostly owned by businessmen who passed through apprenticeship, Nigerian-trained pharmacists cannot feed. Medical sales reps jobs should be for those who read marketing, not for pharmacists.

Name those assistant lecturers of pharmacy employed directly after first degree and give me the links to verify it. Pharmaceutical shops are different from patent medicine shops.

So, you don't know that thermometer, stethoscope and sphygmomanometer check vital signs, and the doctor will then extract medical history of the patients during clerking, and then decide the type of test to order. Medical science laboratories are even the ones coming to beg doctors to refer their patients to them for medical test and that they'll pay them percentages. You forgot that the patient will buy cards first. The doctor can order for x-rays elsewhere or refer the patient to teaching hospitals.

Snowale:
You are not only lying, you are also ignorant. Check out NMA, since origination. Tell me just 2 or 3 president that is a dentist. And also MDCN, tell me 3 or 4 that is a dentist, the same for MDCAN. Better stop deceiving youself. This people are planipla to through you out. I read publications about it. You just name the very few, when we both know that some teaching hospital have never been lead by a dentist. All you do is to talk about the very few that got there through politics.

Even if all teaching hospitals have your department, general pathologist are mostly the one doing the work, only ui dentistry department has its own private lab, most others relies on general pathologists' reports. This is my personal experience.

Now that they joined you guys with then, you are now as superior as they are. Dentistry will always be a small branck of medicine weather you like it or not. And you are lucky they help you guys, now you can claim to be doctors like them, and pharmacist are not, just don't forget not all good things lasts.

When optometrist joins NMA and MDCN, you can carry you barner and protest that they are not doctors, they didn't do anatomy

Presidency of NMA is by politics. So, if you can convince people, you'll be voted for. For instance, Dr Paul Ugbodaga (a dentist) and a medical doctor contested for the chairmanship of NMA, Edo Branch. Ugbodaga was and is still very popular and influential, and he won. No urologist, ophthalmologist, paediatrician, neurologist, neurosurgeon, or ENT Surgeon has held presidency of NMA or MDCN. However, two dentists have become registrars of MDCN. They're Dr T.A.B. Sanusi (who is the current registrar) and Prof. Elijah Henshaw (the late Obong of Calabar). Then, two dentists held the president and secretary of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria. They're Prof. Abayomi Olaitan and Prof. Elijah Henshaw respectively. Olaitan also became a vice president before becoming a president. Two dentists were also president of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria long before Olaitan became it. I'll take time to search for their names because they're very old people and I've forgotten their names. I think the other one is Dr Jeboda. Even medical doctors who were CMDs got there via politics. Moreover, MDCN and National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria are more powerful and statutorily empowered than NMA.

As for MDCAN, many dental consultants have held it as I was told. Besides, I'm no longer a dental student to remember all these things. I'm a medical student now. I got to know these ones within the little period I studied dentistry. You should have asked yourself: how many branches of medicine have held those positions you mentioned? Some branches of medicine have not had a shot at any of those posts. In National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria and West African Medical College, dentistry, paediatrics, general surgery, urology, etc are called branches of medicine and are named faculties. So, dentistry fared well if you check other faculties of medicine too.

UI's oral pathology laboratory is not a private laboratory. Lagos, UBTH, UNTH Enugu, UPTH, etc, have public oral pathology laboratories too. Stop confusing yourself. Optometry has nothing to do with medicine and dentistry, let alone joining NMA and MDCN. Stop living in fantasy.

Snowale:
OD is new in Nigeria. We know they are being intimated and sidelined, the got their OD, and they will get more Soo , just like Dentistry and pharmcy. In US. They have their sepesepa department, and they are headed by Doctors of optometrist, it's very rear to see an ophthalmologists head the department.
Chech out the Optometry department of Boston's Children Hospital, and see their clinical director is a Doctor of optometry. Amy Roan Moy, OD, FAAO.
No ophthalmologist works in the department, all their doctors are OD doctors. we know how lawless Nigeria is, and as time goes one, I know Nigeria will develop, and you would be silenced.

Like I said, DDS is older than OD, you don't just expect an OD that just graduated to be the CMD. And Also, Dentists we helped, they were accepted into the game, and still most CMDs are medical doctors. Abroad there are CMDs that are pharmacist, because they have consultant pharmacist. Prof. Joanne Hirshfield, Dr. Jeffrey C. Delafuente and many others. They head colleges of medicine and pharmacy. Nigeria is developing, evil people are doing their best to stop others from improvement, and Nigeria would develop someday. l.

Amy Roan Moy is not a clinical director. She's a director of health center network of New England College of Optometry. It's a college of optometry. So, she has full right there. She's not a clinical director of a hospital. She was a director of Optometry (not a clinical director) of optometry for 15 years at Martha Elliot Health Centre, affiliated with Boston Children's Hospital. She wasn't a director in Boston Children's Hospital directly as you erroneously said. There are directors of pharmacy, Medical laboratory science, physiotherapy, radiography and nursing in Nigeria. So, it's an ordinary director. Clinical director means that the person is in charge of a hospital or a clinic or that he or she is a head of clinical services in a hospital or clinic. She was none of the above. However, she can also be a clinical director in an optometry clinic like the Nigerian optometrists, but she may not be a clinical director of a hospital. Why should an ophthalmologist leave his department to work in an optometry department? It's demeaning for such an ophthalmologist. Besides, it doesn't change the fact that optometry doesn't have a department in Nigerian hospitals.

Moreover, those pharmacists you mentioned don't head colleges of medicine. They can only head colleges of pharmacy.

Snowale:
They treat minor eye diseases It's only in nigeria optometrist are not allowed to do surgery. https://www.aoa.org/about-the-aoa/what-is-a-doctor-of-optometry, after reading it, come back her to tell me if optometrist does surgeries in other countries or not.
Even in many hospitals in Nigeria, optometrist and ophthamologies should always be present in all eye surgeries. OD is a new program, unliju dentistry and as time goes on they will dominate and spread their boundaries, in some countries OD doctor does some facial surgeries. They are fighting for the right, and trust me they got OD, and very soon they will get more than that. In the past also, Dentist were like them, but now they can now make mouth. Optometrist jobs are limited in Nigeria

OD is new in Nigeria. We know they are being intimated and sidelined, the got their OD, and they will get more Soo , just like Dentistry and pharmcy. In US. They have their sepesepa department, and they are headed by Doctors of optometrist, it's very rear to see an ophthalmologists head the department.
Chech out the Optometry department of Boston's Children Hospital, and see their clinical director is a Doctor of optometry. Amy Roan Moy, OD, FAAO.
No ophthalmologist works in the department, all their doctors are OD doctors. we know how lawless Nigeria is, and as time goes one, I know Nigeria will develop, and you would be silenced.

Like I said, DDS is older than OD, you don't just expect an OD that just graduated to be the CMD. And Also, Dentists we helped, they were accepted into the game, and still most CMDs are medical doctors. Abroad there are CMDs that are pharmacist, because they have consultant pharmacist. Prof. Joanne Hirshfield, Dr. Jeffrey C. Delafuente and many others. They head colleges of medicine and pharmacy. Nigeria is developing, evil people are doing their best to stop others from improvement, and Nigeria would develop someday.

Dentist fought for doctors, and many countries abroad now take DDS.
Also, Pharmcist also fought for doctors, and many countries abroad now take pharm.D. pharm.D in Nigeria is more than 10 years. And around the world, it's more than 20 years. Pharmacist Doctors has attained great feats abroad, and they are now consultants, CMDs and Medical directors. And they are still striving hard. Nurses Abroad are now doing surgeries, and some countries are now doing DON, Doctors of Nursing, they can be consultants. Nigeria follows they Western countries because they are more developed, but when it comes to health, the medical doctors would not like only thenselves dominates the hospital.

Name certain surgeries optometrists do in America, and the links to who did those surgeries. Name facial surgeries optometrists have even done. Don't just rely on what they wrote on their website. They just tried to market their profession. It's a marketing strategy. Optometrists are only permitted in few states in the US to use laser. It's not really a big thing. What have optometrists got to do with facial surgery? I'll be glad if you post the names of those optometrists who had done facial surgery before and when they did it, please.


Optometrists don't come to theatres during eye surgery. Can you give me the link? In the past, dentists were not like optometrists. You lied. Dentistry is a branch of medicine just like paediatrics and surgery. Since 1974, the late Obong of Calabar, Prof. Elijah Henshaw (a dentist) became the registrar of Nigeria Medical Council and the Secretary of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria. Dentists were not up to 10 in Nigeria in 1974, yet he held those enviable posts. So, you lied. Let me ask you: if dentistry was like optometry in the past, why then do dentists belong to the same Royal College of Surgeons of England, Edinburgh, Scotland and Ireland as surgeons? Why does it train dentists and award fellowships to them when they become consultants?

We saw the two oral pathologists who are fellows of the International College of Surgeons (FICS); why was it awarded to them if it's only in Nigeria that dentistry rubs shoulders with medicine? Go and learn how to lie; you've not mastered it.

Anyone can be a hospital administrator abroad, especially degree holders in public administration. However, that optometrist is not a clinical director in that hospital. I can only believe it if you give me the link to it.

No matter how you twist facts, Optometry is not recognized in Nigeria, Britain, and other European countries and they don't do surgeries.

Since you lied that dentistry was treated like optometry before, why then are dentists accorded the same privileges as medical doctors in other African countries, Asia, Middle East, etc? Google and see. So, guy, stop twisting facts.

Consultant pharmacists are not the same as consultant doctors and dentists. No post is called CMD abroad. It's called a hospital administrator, and they're mainly people who studied public administration.


No pharmacist has ever been made a chief medical officer abroad. It's strictly for medical doctors and dentists. Chief medical officer is the same as CMAC or head of clinical services in Nigeria. And I told you earlier that Dr Gary Parker (a dentist) is still the chief medical officer of MercyShip hospital. So, if dentistry was accommodated in Nigeria, why is Dr Gary Parker (a dentist) in charge of the clinical services in a very big hospital like that?


Abroad, anyone can be a hospital administrator, not a chief medical officer which is the same as head of clinical services. Only medical doctors and dentists are given that role.


If dentists fought for the doctor title in Nigeria, did Indian, Japanese, Israeli, Chinese, Bangladeshi, Saudi Arabian, and African dentists fight to be called doctors? You don't know how to lie; just go and learn it more. Tell me who else in the health sector carries out surgery other medical doctors and dentists? Google ameloblastoma and who surgically removes it. Stop embarrassing yourself with concocted lies.

Give me the links where those people you mentioned headed colleges of medicine. DDS is not the reason dentists bear doctors. India is recognized in medicine. Dentists there are awarded BDS and are called doctors. Some of them who specialized in Maxillofacial surgery in India are head and neck cancer surgeons with the same privileges as their medical doctor colleagues there. Give me the link where dentists fought for doctor. If dentists had fought for the doctor title, their degree in Nigeria would have been changed to DDS. But it's still the same BDS. On the contrary, pharmacists left B.Pharm they still bear in Britain from where Nigeria copied its education curricula, to start bearing Pharm.D, the American model.


Pharmacists abroad are not chief medical officers. They can be hospital administrators insofar as they have a diploma in administration. CMDs here are not called CMDs in America and Europe. So, African medical laws are different. In Africa, only medical doctors and dentists have the exclusive right to become CMDs.


Nurses are allowed to sew up wounds and minor surgical-like operations. It's not a genuine surgery. The exception was in a Central African State where nurses were trained as junior medical officers by doctors to carry out minor surgeries due to lack of doctors.

Pharmacy consultancy doesn't convey the same meaning as Medical and dental consultancy. They're pharmacists in old people's homes, and other places. It doesn't mean more than that. British universities don't offer those professional doctorate degrees adopted by your profession. It's of no use bearing big names that don't reflect the kind of work you do.

Pharmacists in Nigeria cannot think of how to pressure the government to improve technology and also increase funding for them so that they can master the science of drug production. Roughly 98 percent of the drugs consumed in Nigeria are imported, yet they want to bear doctors in hospitals. This shows that you're all interested in names without being productive. It's inferiority complex. Let your work speak for you, not unnecessary titles!


Note: I attached the testimony that lady gave about Prof. Ozoemene Obuekwe and other Nigerian doctors. Obuekwe is an oral and maxillofacial surgeon at UBTH. Maxillofacial surgery is a branch of Dentistry. So, Nigeria medical doctors and dentists are doing well. I would have deleted her name, but you might say that I concocted it, and that it's a lie. You can google more about Prof. Obuekwe. He's also an expert surgeon in cleft lip and palate and ameloblastoma surgery.

Snowale:
LUTH has more than 16 general pathologist. Now you say they are not good at diagnosing it, I'm saying they do it in Nigeria and Abroad. I thought you said they don't do it. You said someone advised people with oral cancer to visit oral pathology, because she was misdiagnosed diagnosed by a general pathologist, meaning in most instances a general pathologist does the work, in Nigeria also. The general doctors might misdiagnose, no one is above mistake, a dentist might also misdiagnose.

Like I said, most government hospitals don't even have your department. I wasn't only talking about tertiary health care. Most primary and secondary don't even have your department, talkless pathology labs. Oral pathologist can't be substituted with a general pathologist. Stop deceiving yourself, they do most of your works.

ENT surgeons sent their biopsy samples to general histopathology labs. And private oral pathology labs can only be owned by a scientist, scientists are the professional for such jobs

I didn't say that general pathologists don't read and interpret oral biopsy slides. I said that they're not good at it. They're mainly trained to read and interpret biopsy samples from other parts of the body. However, there are general pathologists who subspecialized as head and neck pathologists. But in the strict sense, oral pathologists are the main pathologists duly qualified to read and interpret oral biopsy slides, because he or she sees numerous oral biopsy samples more than general pathologists, and experience is the best teacher.

If a general pathologist does the work of an oral pathologist, why then did the Nigerian Army sponsor a dentist who is a lieutenant colonel to do a residency in oral pathology at UNTH Enugu? Stop saying what you're not sure of. Medicine needs accuracy, not guess work. That's why oral pathologists are trained to read and interpret oral biopsy slides, so as to avoid incorrect diagnoses.

Every secondary healthcare facility in Nigeria has a dental clinic. Let me ask you: have you seen neurosurgery, neurology, ophthalmology, obstetrics and gynaecology, paediatrics, urology, etc in primary tier government hospitals in Nigeria? They don't have those departments there. It's just a general medical practitioner that works there, and refers difficult cases to secondary and tertiary tier hospitals. Even neurology, neurosurgery, urology, and most times Opthalmology departments are not found in secondary tier hospitals. They're mainly domiciled in tertiary tier hospitals. On the contrary, all the general hospitals in Nigeria (which are secondary tier government hospitals) have dental clinics. It's then advanced in tertiary tier hospitals.

General pathologists are seriously involved in other parts of the body, and are not conversant with the oral and maxillofacial region. They do autopsy, receive samples from paediatrics, urology, O and G, neurosurgery, neurology, general surgery etc. So, it's not even wise to allow them to touch the oral region, to avoid confusion and misdiagnosis.

It's still the National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria and the West African Medical College which regulate postgraduate medical education, that thought it wise to have both of them. So, you don't know better than they do.

A medical laboratory scientist is not a pathologist, and therefore, he or she cannot own a pathology lab. And no medical laboratory scientist knows how to read and interpret biopsy slides or even interpret radiographs. Making histopathology laboratory test diagnosis is much more than that. The pathologist has to combine medical history, radiographs, etc, with the reading and interpretation of biopsy slides. These guide him or her to deliver an accurate diagnosis. So, it's ignorant of you to think that. They're only employed as technologists in pathology laboratories.

Maid007:
I have come to a conclusion that the guy is not ready to learn. Smh

You're the one that's not ready to learn. I'm in the system. A pharmacy student cannot tell me (a medical student) what's obtainable in medicine and dentistry. You lack facts. You're ignorant of the practice of medicine and dentistry.

Snowale:
the med lab bodies regulated all medical laboratories in the country, including all histopathology labs, this thing is online. because someone is a pathologist in histopathology lab or Haematology lab, doesn't mean he can own a lab or be the HOD in such labs, check it yourself.

You lack facts. Didn't you see that it's oral pathologists that head that oral pathology laboratory of the University of Port Harcourt Teaching Hospital, while a medical laboratory scientist serves as a technologist there? Go to teaching hospitals and ask them who are the main (clinical) heads of medical laboratory science departments there. It's even the medical laboratory scientists that will show you the medical doctors who are the heads. A medical laboratory scientist is just a technical head.

Laboratory medicine (or pathology specifically) supersedes medical laboratory science. Histopathology, haematology, chemical pathology, clinical microbiology and immunology are all branches of pathology or laboratory medicine, not medical laboratory science.


Medical laboratory scientists are technologists. That's why their head is called a technical head, while medical doctors are the clinical heads. They used to bear medical laboratory technologists before.

Snowale:
To inspect regulate and accredit Medical Laboratories(Public and Private)and
To perform such other functions as may be conferred on it by the Act.

http://web.mlscn.gov.ng/index.php/mlscn-mandate/ I give you fact with evidence, I just don't argue based on what I heard.

All med labs are regulated by mlscn. Only a scientist can head these labs and own own it.

https://nationalhospital.gov.ng/department-services/dental-department/ check the National hospital Abuja, If it has oral pathology department. And if general pathologist does their work or not

http://www.uduth.org.ng/index.php?p=laboratoriesheck
Check UDUTH, a tertiary health care, if it has oral pathology department, if oral biopsies are sent to the invincible lab or histopathology lab

The MLSCN Act you quoted states that MLSCN regulates the practice of Medical laboratory science in Nigeria, not laboratory medicine. Oral and general pathologies are branches of dentistry and medicine respectively.

Pathology is not a medical laboratory science. And Medical laboratory scientists are not pathologists.

Only three (3) professions own pathology: Human Medicine, Dentistry and Veterinary Medicine. If you go back to the oral pathology laboratory of the University of Port Harcourt Teaching Hospital I showed you, you'll discover that a medical laboratory scientist was employed in that oral pathology laboratory, and he's answerable to the oral pathologist who is the head. You can see that it's the oral pathologist that heads the oral pathology laboratory, while the medical laboratory scientist employed there serves as a technologist. You can still go back and check it. For one to be a pathologist (be it oral, general or veterinary), he or she must pass through residency and be certified as a consultant.

Laboratory medicine isn't the same as Medical laboratory science. So, pathology is under laboratory medicine, not medical laboratory science, and it's MDCN (Medical and Dental Council of Nigeria) that accredits any pathology laboratory, while MLSCN accredits laboratories that bear medical laboratory science.

Moreover, medical laboratory scientists are just technical heads, while pathologists are the main heads. This is because medical laboratory scientists serve as technologists to pathologists who are the main practitioners of laboratory medicine.

National Hospital Abuja has an oral pathology laboratory. Oral diagnosis unit was written there. Oral diagnosis unit means oral pathology and oral medicine unit. You're just ignorant. Ask yourself what is diagnosis? It also has a dental technology laboratory. Somebody I know who is a dental technology student did her industrial attachment there. Besides, some of those people listed there are no longer working there. So, the information is not current. For example, Dr. A.A. Olaitan is now a professor and the current Dean of Dental School, Lagos State University. He was the former President of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria I talked about earlier. He left there a long time ago. About two other consultants on that list are not working there again, and the resident doctors listed there are all consultants now. So, the department has witnessed a lot of changes not written there.

UDUTH has Dental and Maxillofacial Department comprising oral pathology, oral and Maxillofacial Surgery and other branches of dentistry. Dr. Ramat Oyebunmi Braimah works there.

Just last year, the NUC accredited the Usmanu Dan Fodio University to start dentistry. NUC wouldn't have accredited UDUSOK to start dentistry if UDUTH didn't have adequate dental centre in which oral maxillofacial unit, oral pathology unit, etc are well equipped.

I'm still waiting for the links where you saw that 16 and 4 general and oral pathologists respectively work in LUTH.

Snowale:
LUTH has more than 16 general pathologist. Now you say they are not good at diagnosing it, I'm saying they do it in Nigeria and Abroad. I thought you said they don't do it. You said someone advised people with oral cancer to visit oral pathology, because she was misdiagnosed diagnosed by a general pathologist, meaning in most instances a general pathologist does the work, in Nigeria also. The general doctors might misdiagnose, no one is above mistake, a dentist might also misdiagnose.

Like I said, most government hospitals don't even have your department. I wasn't only talking about tertiary health care. Most primary and secondary don't even have your department, talkless pathology labs. Oral pathologist can't be substituted with a general pathologist. Stop deceiving yourself, they do most of your works.

ENT surgeons sent their biopsy samples to general histopathology labs. And private oral pathology labs can only be owned by a scientist, scientists are the professional for such jobs

Medical laboratory scientists are employed in oral pathology laboratories where an oral pathologist is the one in charge. Medical laboratory scientists are not pathologists. So, they don't regulate pathology laboratories.

Snowale:
LUTH has more than 16 general pathologist. Now you say they are not good at diagnosing it, I'm saying they do it in Nigeria and Abroad. I thought you said they don't do it. You said someone advised people with oral cancer to visit oral pathology, because she was misdiagnosed diagnosed by a general pathologist, meaning in most instances a general pathologist does the work, in Nigeria also. The general doctors might misdiagnose, no one is above mistake, a dentist might also misdiagnose.

Like I said, most government hospitals don't even have your department. I wasn't only talking about tertiary health care. Most primary and secondary don't even have your department, talkless pathology labs. Oral pathologist can't be substituted with a general pathologist. Stop deceiving yourself, they do most of your works.

ENT surgeons sent their biopsy samples to general histopathology labs. And private oral pathology labs can only be owned by a scientist, scientists are the professional for such jobs

Pathology laboratory, whether, it's oral or general pathology, is not under the jurisdiction of medical laboratory science. It's under the charge of doctors and dentists who are pathologists. They have the right to set up pathology labs. There's no private general or oral pathology laboratory in Nigeria. They're all owned by government or private hospitals. And in every big government or private hospital in Nigeria, there must be a general or oral pathology laboratory. Your problem is that you're ignorant. For your information, I'm not a dental student; I'm a medical student. Every secondary government hospital has a dental clinic. General hospitals are secondary healthcare facility, and all of them have fully functional dental departments, but may not have oral pathology laboratory because of underfunding. Also, general hospitals do not have general pathology laboratory. It's only tertiary government hospitals like teaching hospitals and federal medical centres that have general and oral pathology laboratories. Go and make your finding and stop confusing yourself. Besides, 16 general pathologists compared to 4 oral pathologists are very poor in number. Give me the links where you saw 16 general pathologists and 4 oral pathologists working at LUTH. They're in charge of other parts of the body other than mouth and maxillofacial region. ENT Surgeons also send their biopsy samples to oral pathologists. You're not in the same system, and you don't know better than I do. They also send to general pathologists who subspecialized in head and neck pathology. See the link: https://www.ada.org/sitecore/content/home-ada/publications/ada-news/2013-archive/august/early-detection-advocate-cites-oral-pathologists-as-essential-to-precancer-diagnosis . I couldn't paragraph my comment because my battery is running down.

Snowale:
Like I said, it is not common. Most government and private hospitals use the general labs and don't have any oral pathology lab. Don't be surprised, some government hospitals has no dentistry department.
Even most of those that have the labs usually shuts it down. The whole unilag teaching hospital has just 4 oral pathologist, I'm not saying there is none. I'm saying you should tell me what really happens in most hospitals, they are few, and most of those pathologist studied abroad. I don't want to tell you about my personal experience because of security reasons.

There is general histopathology department in all teaching hospitals.

Have you checked how many general pathologists the whole LUTH has too? Go and make your findings. General pathologists are not good at diagnosing oral and maxillofacial lesions. One American oral cancer survivor, Eva Graysale, advised people to go to oral pathologists, that she was misdiagnosed by a general pathologist, and when she went back to an oral pathologist, it turned out that it was actually an oral squamous carcinoma (oral cancer). Anybody can make a mistake, but an oral pathologist in training sees more oral biopsy samples than a general pathologist. An oral pathologist in training also sees few samples from other parts of the body as he or she rotates through general pathology. So, now that more oral pathologists have been trained, hospitals have stopped using general pathologists for oral histopathology tests, because of the likely incorrect results. I'm a medical student. So, I'm not against general pathologists. Even in Britain, oral pathologists worked in some general pathology laboratories seeing some samples that came from other parts of the body, but they were stopped immediately general pathologists were employed. So, it's a similar scenario here. * * There's no tertiary government hospital that doesn't have a dental department. Those patients in the rural areas are referred to teaching hospitals, general hospitals and federal medical centres. * *. Most government hospitals have oral pathology laboratories. In the event that they don't have it, oral pathologists are employed in the general pathology laboratory. * * Nobody shuts down an oral pathology laboratory. Diseases of the oral cavity are much more than dental diseases. People suffer from a lot of oral diseases. Salivary gland diseases such as sialoadenitis, etc, skin diseases on the oral and maxillofacial region are there, different types of oral cancer may be there, benign tumors may be there too, and some of these are frequent complaints coupled with dental diseases. ENT surgeons and private hospitals also send their oral biopsy samples to oral pathology laboratory.

Snowale:
I meant optometrist. They are also doctors, just like dentists. They both treat patients, they also diagnose, and manage diseases. Abroad, they are allowed to consult just like dentists.

Dentistry wasn't an academic doctorate degree from the start, just like pharmacy. Now we can call graduates of both doctors. Even some countries abroad don't awards doctorate to dental graduates.

You are giving instsinsof where a dentist did his job, he was praised. Pharmacist, Nurses, scientists have also been praised for what the did right.

He carried out his surgery and it was successful, then what's the big deal, he did his job well

They treat minor eye diseases. In Britain, they're not that recognized, and they don't consult in Britain, and it's not a professional doctorate degree programme there. In America, they're given doctorate of optometry (OD). They don't do surgery too like maxillofacial surgeons and some other dentists do, and they don't function as pathologists or radiologists like some dentists do. There are also consultant oral radiologists who function like general radiologists. You can google it. So, optometrists' job roles are limited.

In Nigeria here, they don't have a separate department in the hospital, and are regarded as technicians by ophthalmologists. In fact, they make caricature of them when they call themselves doctors. On the contrary, dentists are appointed as CMDs and also head clinical services in the hospital, whether in Nigeria or abroad. Dr Gary Parker is still the chief medical officer of MercyShip Hospital. Prof. Foluso Owotade (a consultant maxillofacial surgeon) was the former CMAC of Obafemi Awolowo University Teaching Hospital, and when the CMD completed his tenure, he became an acting CMD. In fact, medical doctors call dentists their colleagues and they collaborate in surgery like maxillofacial surgeons, ENT and plastic surgeons normally do.

Dentists have always been addressed as doctors even with BDS. They didn't beg for a professional doctorate like you people in Nigeria, yet they are recognized as doctors. Dentistry has nothing to do with a professional doctorate, even though America and Canada award DMD and DDS.

Check India, Bangladesh, Pakistan, China, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Saudi Arabia and other Asian and Middle East countries as well as Africa, dentists are awarded BDS and addressed as doctors. In all these places, they address pharmacists as non-doctors. You can google it. Even in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh, maxillofacial surgeons go deeper by becoming head and neck cancer surgeons like otorhinolaryngologists, after a fellowship of 2 years in oncosurgery. On the contrary, pharmacists want to be called doctors by force.

Snowale:
You are just trying so hard to make dentistry look as important as medicine. Even though you know how they treats you. you are giving me details about how they allowed a dentist to lead the association in 2007, that you claim belongs to you both. Giving me details about how some dentist were allowed to held fellowships of a college of surgeons, that you claim belongs to you both. Don't you know how you sound

You said I should Google what you don't know, bring the law that says only medical doctors or those under MDCN can be called Doctors. forget about dentistry, Because I was also like pharmacy in the past, it's just that they've been allowed to dine with the doctors, now they are her online making mouth, just because they were given the opportunity. if you read publications and you are current, you will find out that they are looking for ways to dump you guys, so it's will be only them.

Some even say, ophthalmologist would soon join you guys, just like abroad, and when they join willing you tell me they can't also be called Doctors.

Pharm.D is a new thing, and very soon, everyone would know that there are pharmacist doctors, just like dentist can can also be called Doctors.

I believe you're ignorant. Opthalmologists are not the same as optometrists. Opthalmology is the field I have in mind, to specialize in after MBBS. It's a branch of medicine. Pharm.D should be used outside the hospital. It's not bad, but it should not be used inside the hospital. They don't consult, diagnose, treat and manage diseases.

Despite the mad rush for a professional doctorate in pharmacy, nursing and medical laboratory science, Medicine and Dentistry have not changed their first degree. It's still MBBS and BDS respectively. That shows they are comfortable with what they have, and it serves them everywhere. So, it's low self esteem and the mad rush to bear doctors that pushed you people to change degrees. After all, in Britain from where Nigeria copied its education curricula, pharmacy is still B.Pharm.

I argue based on facts; since you have continued to mention ophthalmology in place of optometry, I believe all you wrote earlier are good for the trash can.

Dentistry is as important as medicine. Without oral pathologists, an oral cancer patient may not know he or she has it, and the earlier it's diagnosed, the higher the chance of survival. Ameloblastoma is another disease disfiguring people's faces in Africa, and without a maxillofacial surgeon to operate on it, the quality of life of that person will be hampered. Noma (cancrum oris) is a flesh-eating disease ravaging Northerners, and without maxillofacial surgeons and plastic surgeons, it'll permanently disfigure and disable them. Diseases of the oral cavity can spread to the blood and kill the patient. So, dentistry is as important as medicine. I've been in the two, and I know their importance. Dentists called prosthodontists also replace lost parts of the face due to surgery, by printing a 3D image of that person's face. Cleft lip and palate disfigures children's faces in Africa, and it's the job of maxillofacial surgeons to surgically correct it, and give the person a new lease of life.

A lady lawyer poured encomiums on Prof. Obuekwe (a consultant maxillofacial surgeon) at UBTH on how God used him to reconstruct her extremely damaged face caused by an accident, and that people looking at her beautiful face today might not know it underwent a lot of surgeries by Prof. Obuekwe. So, dentistry is as good as medicine. My experience revealed it to me too. Every course is good too.

Snowale:
I never said there is none, I said you should tell me what is being done, not what's written on paper. As you can see, in the whole of upth, only 2 consultant oral pathology and resident doctor.

tell me how many dentistry department that has it's own private laboratory, almost all use the general laboratories. I think it's only UITH that its dentist department has it own private laboratory, even though most test are not done in this lab, samples are usually taken to the general laboratories, and on the long run, to a general pathologist, who studied medicine.

The fact is that they are, but few, and in many teaching, private, general hospitals, and FMCs General pathologists mostly does their job. Get my point please

You never said what? You said it's on paper, not real. It depends on facilities on ground. Two resident doctors are there now. As more facilities are on ground, more consultants and resident doctors will be employed. The more facilities a hospital has, the more doctors will be employed. Lagos, Ibadan, UBTH and UNTH have more resident doctors and consultant oral pathologists in their oral pathology laboratories. Besides, it's not every medical school that has the same admission quota, based on facilities on ground.

That's an oral pathology laboratory; it's not a general pathology laboratory. Dental technicians don't work in a general pathology laboratory, but they're working in this laboratory.

Almost every teaching hospital now has its own oral pathology laboratory. UNTH Enugu has its own. Amaechi even built a state of the art dental hospital in Port Harcourt that has a well equipped oral pathology department. So, it's not only UITH and LUTH have oral pathology laboratories. Even UBTH has a very big and standard one too. Any teaching hospital or Federal Medical Centre doing residency in oral pathology has a well equipped oral pathology laboratory.

No general pathologist is deeply conversant with the oral and maxillofacial region. Their training is mainly concentrated on other parts of the body. General pathologists even subspecialize because the human body and diseases are vast.

General Medical laboratory is not the same as oral pathology laboratory or general pathology laboratory. Oral Pathology laboratory is an oral histopathology lab. So, you don't know the difference. Every dental clinic in most teaching hospitals and federal medical centres now have their own oral histopathology laboratories.

General medical laboratory is for all diseases. What oral and general pathologists diagnose and report are histopathology tests, not general tests. It's histopathology tests coupled with the radiographs, history and other clues that oral and general pathologists use to arrive at disease diagnosis such as cancer, etc.

Snowale:
it's either you didn't read my post or you lack comprehensive skills. I never said there is none, I said in many hospitals, especially in Nigeria, a general pathologist usually does all the work. Though, there might be private lab for dentistry department, but it's very rear, most tests are done in the general lab, and the general pathologists would be the one to look into it. this is something that have happened to someone very close to me.

you gave me an instant where a dental surgeon was allowed to do his job, he did a cleft lip surgery, then what. does it always have to be a medical doctor.

You also said a dentist was the former National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria, do you know how you sound, you just made it clear that dentists have been sidelined, you claim to be one, just for them to let you lead them once in a while.

You are trying so hard to prove that Dentistry and medicine are the same. a branch of medicine. dentist were like pharmacist in the past, they weren't referred to as doctors. when the were granted the right to be called Doctors, many, including medical doctors and students said they shouldn't be called doctors, but now, they've helped you guys. now you have mouth to claim doctor, and you can say others shouldn't be called Doctors. just because they were accepted into MDCN.

opthalmologist would soon be accepted into the group, let's see what you will say about them after that

Nobody relegated dentists. Some of those leaders in medicine in Nigeria are dentists. Stop misquoting me. For example, the Registrar, Medical and Dental Council of Nigeria presently, Dr T.A.B. Sanusi, is a dentist.

Virtually, all the teaching hospitals and Federal Medical Centres in Nigeria now have equipped Dental Centres. So, oral pathologists are not scarce in those hospitals. So, you're lying. Dentistry and medicine are siblings of the same parents. I wasn't trying hard to prove anything. That's the truth. After all, I'm a medical student now, but I was a dental student in UNN before I left to a state university to study medicine, so as to be close and run my business as well. But I knew a lot of big people in dentistry during my short stay there. So, dentistry and medicine share the same privileges. Even, both of them pass through the same Royal College of Surgeons in England to become consultants.

Who's talking of sidelining here, even when dentists have become Chairmen of Nigeria Medical Association, Chairmen of Medical Advisory Committee (CMAC) in teaching hospitals and heads of clinical services in Federal Medical Centres, as well as CMDs of teaching hospitals. That's not my point.

Prove your point by stating when dentists were not regarded as doctors in Nigeria before. Do you have a link to that? You lack knowledge of history. A dentist, the late Traditional Ruler of Calabar, Dr Elijah Henshaw, was among the early doctors in Nigeria who started Nigeria Medical Association as well as postgraduate medical education in Nigeria. He studied dentistry in London. So, he was a pioneer in Nigerian medical education. Medical and dental education in Nigeria were modeled after the British and American patterns. Go and search for that. You're lying.

To show that you wallow in ignorance, you're still calling an ophthalmologist a non-medical doctor. Opthalmology and optometry are not the same. Ophthalmology is a branch of medicine.


It's not a bad thing if Optometry is accepted into the Nigeria Medical Association. It's a good course. No course is useless. However, Optometry doesn't run a similar curriculum like Medicine and Dentistry. Medicine and Dentistry do same courses from first year to 4th year and have their faculties in the teaching hospitals. They divert in 500 level because dental students will join 600 level medical students to do medicine and surgery, which are final year courses for medical students, but it's 500 level courses for dental students. Optometry doesn't offer these courses. In fact, all the postings in medicine in 400 and 500 levels, (except paediatrics, community medicine and O and G postings) are undertaken by dental students too. That's why they're related. In some countries, students graduate first in medicine before doing dentistry in residency with a specific interest in subspecialties of dentistry.

Snowale:
And medicine student does it all isn't it, including anatomy, physiology, pharmacology,, biochemistry, laboratories sciences etc. they did it all to the fullest more than even those in the the fields. mtchew

I can tell you that all these courses belong to medical doctors. Medical biochemistry is a basic medical course, not general biochemistry. Nurses, medical laboratory scientists don't do full anatomy, physiology and biochemistry courses. Only medical doctors and dentists do that. Recently, physiotherapy started doing all of them in full. For instance, in UNN, medical laboratory science students don't do embryology and some other topics in physiology and biochemistry. Nursing students don't do everything too. As for anatomy and physiology students, they're just doing the same courses medical and dental students are doing, except in their 400 level.

Snowale:
Funny, medical doctors know more pharmacology than a pharmacist, chai. because, they borrowed the course for just a year, not that it was the only course they did throughout, they did pathology that say year also ooo. and claim they know more than a pharmacist. if a student that can't defend himself, it's his personal problem, we've seen many doctors misbehaving, and practicing like illiterates, some search Google to know the drugs to prescribe, some make false diagnoses and prescibe wrong drugs, and many many many more, it's not a new thing. you said despite pharm.D, Nigerian pharmacist can't produce a drug, now I know you are an illiterate. I'm sorry, I can't argue with someone like you, you need to go back to school

On the contrary, you're the illiterate. 98 percent of Nigerian pharmacists cannot produce a drug. Pathology is not a year course. After pathology lectures, medical students will do ward rounds and put it into practice. They'll do postings. They continue to do that till graduation. Even pharmacology is not a one-year course. The medical students do postings too in pharmacology, and put it into practice throughout their clinical years and beyond. But a pharmacist doesn't have a patient contact to really put pharmacology into practice, yet you want to claim that it's your course and that you know more about it. You're funny.

Snowale:
Seems you know nothing about the health sector. You don't know how many Doctors fight for residency, most of them end up in a different sector or private hospitals. Even a doctor can't be saying what you just said

It's you that know nothing about the health sector. I did my youth service in a private pharmacy in Maiduguri. Over the years, I've observed pharmaceutical shops. What I saw was that most pharmaceutical shops were owned by non-pharmacists who passed through apprenticeship. The pharmacists, according to my observation, are always seeking employment in government hospitals.

Moreover, it's not every doctor that wants to specialize. A medical doctor can set up a small clinic with only stethoscope and sphygmomanometer, and will be making it. Can a pharmacist set up a pharmaceutical shop easily after graduation? It's impossible. He or she needs a huge capital to do that. Even while working in his or her clinic, he or she will still be doing locum jobs in some hospitals. With just his MBBS or BDS (in case of dentists), he'll be employed as an assistant lecturer, unlike other professions that will do master's first or be employed as graduate assistants including pharmacists. That's why most pharmacists end up as sales reps, whereas medical sales reps jobs should be for people who studied marketing. The real job pharmacists are trained for is drug manufacturing, but 98 percent of Nigerian pharmacists cannot do it. That's why the government should overhaul pharmacy education in Nigeria, if she really wants to have competent pharmacists and reduce the influx of fake drugs to Nigeria.

Snowale:
when you are talking , talk about what dentist are know for, most dentist don't end up being a pathologist especially in Nigeria. Google it yourself. a general pathologist covers all be it, dental surgery department, paediatric, ophthalmology, O and G. Don't deceive us with what is written on paper that rearly happens, we are talking about what really happens

You asked me to google it, and these are the Nigerian oral pathologists I saw. They're numerous. I just picked these ones as an example. They are as follows: Dr C.A. Iyogun; Dr O.G. Omitola (both of them lecture oral pathology at the Faculty of Dentistry of University of Port Harcourt, and are also honorary oral pathology consultants at the University of Port Harcourt Teaching Hospital in the department of Oral Pathology. This is the link: https://upthng.com/oral-pathology-biology/ . Others are: Dr A.M. Adesina,, Dr Mike Nwoga (UNN and UNTH, Enugu); Dr Afolabi S. Salami (University of Medical Science - UNIMED, Ondo State); Dr T.J. Lasisi (Faculty of Dentistry, UI and Department of Oral Pathology, University of Ibadan (UI) Teaching Hospital); Dr A.O. Lawal; Prof. Onatolu Odukoya of the University of Lagos Dental School and Department of Oral Pathology, LUTH. You can google for more.

Snowale:
Forget about anything dent, they are called dentists, only medical doctor that studied medicine were called Doctors right from the start till now, now that new doctors are joining m, like dentist, pharmacist, ophthalmologist they can also be call doctors, in few years time it would be a normal thing, everyone will know that all doctors are not medical doctors, some are dental doctors, pharmacist doctors etc.

These dentists (Dr C.A. Iyogun; Dr O.G. Omitola and the late Prof. Emmanuel Oladepo Adekeye) hold/held fellowships of International College of Surgeons (FICS) as surgeons also hold. It's not honorary. Late Prof. Adekeye was the maxillofacial surgeon who operated on the infant with cleft lip and palate in Kaduna after he was surgically treated in London, but the London surgery was not successful. Type his name and the news will pop out. Dr Francis Adu-Ababio (a public health dentist who did his residency in dental public health in London) was the President of Ghana Medical Association in 2007. I didn't say Ghana Dental Association. Prof. Ademola Abayomi Olaitan (a consultant maxillofacial surgeon) was the immediate past President of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria.

We all know that the title Fellowship of International College of Surgeons (FICS) is an internationally recognized fellowship that's awarded by a foreign body. So, if a dentist can hold it, it then means that he's qualified to be called a doctor. Also, the UK awards FDSRCS (fellowship in Dental Surgery of the Royal College of Surgeons) or FDSRCPS (Fellowship in Dental Surgery of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons) to consultant dentists who have satisfactorily completed their residency. Even Dr Francis Adu-Ababio and the late Prof. Emmanuel Oladepo Adekeye holds/held it.

The West African College of Surgeons awards fellowship of the West African College of Surgeons (FWACS) to both surgeons and dentists who have completed their residency and are qualified to be called consultants. Both medical doctors and dentists who are consultants belong to the MDCAN (Medical and Dental Consultants of Nigeria). So, they're the main people licensed to be called doctors in the hospital setting. You can google it.

Snowale:
when you are talking , talk about what dentist are know for, most dentist don't end up being a pathologist especially in Nigeria. Google it yourself. a general pathologist covers all be it, dental surgery department, paediatric, ophthalmology, O and G. Don't deceive us with what is written on paper that rearly happens, we are talking about what really happens

Stop being ignorant about dentistry. Google it and stop embarrassing yourself. The former Chief Medical Director ((CMD) of Lagos University Teaching Hospital (LUTH), Prof. Onatolu Odukoya, is a consultant oral pathologist. In fact, he was sponsored by University of Lagos to go to the US and do his residency in oral pathology. He's a dentist. In fact, he was the first dentist to be appointed as the CMD of Lagos University Teaching Hospital (LUTH), and the first CMD to stay for 8 years. There are so many oral pathologists in Nigeria.

A certain woman had a jaw pain in Lagos. She was referred by a dentist to LUTH dental department. It was an oral pathologist who diagnosed that it was jaw cancer. Due to lack of technology, she was sent to India, where the oral pathologist there did another test and confirmed that it was jaw cancer. All the oral cancers in Nigeria such as oral squamous carcinoma, etc are being diagnosed by oral pathologists, not general pathologists. General pathologists are not conversant with the oral and maxillofacial structures. Go to teaching hospitals and see it yourself. I was in dentistry before I changed to medicine. Even Prof. Chukwuneke, an oral and maxillofacial surgeon had revisited surgery done by plastic surgeons on the maxillofacial area before. He's currently the Dean of Dentistry, UNN. I talk with facts.

. Google oral pathologists in Nigeria, oral and maxillofacial surgery, Prof. S.M. Balaji, Dr. Gary Parker, Prof. Chukwuneke, Prof. Onatolu Odukoya, Prof. Wasiu Lanre Adeyeemo, etc, and tell me what you saw. Don't be deluded. Dentistry and medicine share the same path. Even the immediate past president of National Postgraduate Medical College of Nigeria is a dentist who specialized in maxillofacial surgery.