₦airaland Forum

Consumption junction, where you pay attention to people's every unction and dysfunction

I begin by postulating that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, seeing that man's reach exceeds his grasp.

Let me explain for the benefit of those who don't regard God in their personal worldview.

One asks, Man's reach for what exactly? And there's another one. Man's reach for any and everything. Take any human endeavour & you will observe that there is no finality.

For instance, there are concepts like infinity, eternity, unbounded multi-dimensionality, the concept of time, the vast and untraversed universe, etc. There is more. There's always more!

What are the extents of wisdom? Man never fully appropriates the potentials of existentiality, and true wisdom in wasteless and unrestricted entirety involves an all-encompassing insight into all that was and is now extinct, all that is now, all that can be but isn't yet, and all that will never be.

We choose to attribute that finality of existentiality as one thing or agent or the other, but for me I name that Holy Grail of wisdom the mind of God.

Whether one believes in God or not is moot, but the fear (insightful &purposeful acknowledgment) of THAT finality of existentiality, is the beginning of a journey towards the wisdom desired to be acquired.

All humans reach for more of one thing or the other, regardless of race, gender, age, worldview/religion, career description or social status. The source may be argued away by someone who has no God in their worldview, but the finality is definitely unknown. THAT finality, I refer to as the mind of God about that matter.

Every journey into THAT wisdom begins with THAT single step of acknowledgment. e.g. Can one grasp mathematics without acknowledging infinity and its numerical influence? Can one entirely express the diverse human will? Is there an ultimate end to the perfection of art, such that it could never be better? etc. Man's reach ALWAYS exceeds his grasp. The finality is the mind of God, which belongs to God.

lol Pastor AIO, if one is using an awfully slow internet conn and the conn times out while the post is being submitted, and the user refreshes the page, a new thread is sometimes created rather than a reply!

Marlbron please don't go! It was just getting more interesting!

@viaro and nuclearboy: You guys have clinched the last few details that I left undiscussed. Interesting!

@viaro: Will you be kind enough to send me an email? We have unfinished business! mavenbox AT gmail.com

@Dual Core: LOL "How I met your mother" (I know the movie, but I dislike romantic movies) and those <diary></diary> tags need to enter into SGML markup

P.S. It's not a date, it's an appointment. Please refrain from getting so fresh with me    , cos you may not survive it if my hunnybunny (who, good enough, is also on Nairaland) handles you  !

Ok, when you register you can send me a challenge from my profile in my siggy if you're up to it, but I actually hope your "liver will fail" and you will devote the day to the coding that you're more confident at!

@Thread / Mod: I apologize for I, Dual Core and Donpuzo's distractions. A thousand apologies!

@Dual Core: Meet me at chess.com tomorrow let me whopp your @$$ cos I have done it for even VERY strong players. I just finished whopping guys that are hundreds of points rated above me. . .

@freecocoa: Be easy, sis I love you!

Deep Sight:
The answer to these questions is very simple: under the law of Karma, you reap what you sow - thus the minute humanity sows evil, we reap evil - and this is a process that can continue ad infinitum.

Let me give you some insight: remember what Jesus said about casting out demons. He indicated that if the victim still bears within him fertile soil for demon posession, TEN MORE demons would return to posess the victim. This is actually a process of magnetism - evil attracts more evil - accordingly human evil excesses only lead to greater evil under the law of Karma and magnetism - thus the cycle of continuing evil, CAPISCE?

@Deep Sight: I assume you refer to SEVEN demons, and to this scripture, sir

Mat 12:43  When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Mat 12:44  Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mat 12:45  Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

And if you are (because there is no other such place I can think of right now), then it means that it doesn't quite apply in favor of your case, where you are likening it to the multiplication of evil due to evil actions.

The demon leaves the man, and then makes an attempt to return. when it gets back, it meets the place UNOCCUPIED. NOT a fertile soil for possession, but NOT INHABITED! Even if was a demon that was there, the other demon would not be able to displace it

Mat 12:26  And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

So the point is not that the guy was involved in MORE evil, but rather the guy was non-commitally sitting on the fence [s]probably waiting for his next reincarnation when things would work out easier for him?[/s]

The problem Jesus was addressing there was the non-chalance of the Scribes and Pharisees, those ones that refused to listen to or accept the Gospel, but were still waiting for another miracle (a military miracle of sorts). Jesus Christ was going to die for their sins, but things would get worse for them because the CLEAN SLATE THEY HAD FROM CHRIST WAS GOING TO GET MORE PUTRIFIED BECAUSE THEY HAD NOT SPIRITUAL ESSENCE TO STORE IN THEIR SPIRITS.

Zodiac61:
How very intelligent. When you have no answers, you resort to abuse. Mumu.

LMAO I laugh in double Fianchetto! Have you EVER had me abuse you or anyone else you know, even if at all the one above is considered as such? The post above is pathetic, because all I said was "talk to my hand" i.e. "I'm not having this conversation". Over and out.

[size=18pt]If you're upset, go and tie a millstone on your neck and go for a swim! It's actually Biblical

Mar 9:42 And whoever causes one of these little ones (these believers) who acknowledge and cleave to Me to stumble and sin, it would be better (more profitable and wholesome) for him if a [huge] millstone were hung about his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. [/size]

LMAO

Mal 4:5  Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Elijah is to come before the great and dreadful day of the Lord. What is this great and dreadful day? Did it happen in the time of John the Baptist? NO! Again I tell you, NO!!! 

So what is this great and dreadful day of the Lord? It's in the far (with respect to Malachi) future, and Revelations 11 speaks of it. THAT is where Elijah is returning: him and (maybe Enoch but most probably Moses, judging by their typified acts in Rev 11). 

Elijah the Tishbite jumped onto the scene out of nowhere in 1 Kings 17 to stand up for God in a stubbornly unyielding voice in the midst of darkness, preparing the hearts of the people for God. John the baptist was as much a forerunner for a new dispensation, and Elijah AGAIN would be a forerunner for the Judgment day. IN ALL THE CASES, NOBODY WOULD BE ABLE TO SAY THAT THEY DIDN'T HEAR, OR THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS COMING! But Elijah was not re-incarnated as John the Baptist, he would simply return (he didn't die in the first place) as HIMSELF. See:

Mat 17:9  And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
Mat 17:10  And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mat 17:11  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12  But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13  Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Deep Sight, you may want to read that boldened line like 5 times or so. It makes it VERY clear that Elijah TRULY SHALL FIRST COME, AND RESTORE ALL THINGS! Was John the Baptist born at this time, professor? Or he too was yet to come?

"But I say unto you", continued Christ, meaning "Furthermore, I'm telling you (BUT NOT WITH RESPECT TO THE PROPHECY). . ."

". . . Elijah has come already! And they knew him not, but have done what they would. . ." and this verse can only be clarified by another set of scriptures where Christ spoke to the multitudes:

Mat 11:13  For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Mat 11:14  And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
Mat 11:15  He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 11:16  But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows,
Mat 11:17  And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented.
Mat 11:18  For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.
Mat 11:19  The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

Where Jesus clearly states, and I paraphrase, that the prophets prophesied until John, and now, they did not say he was Elijah, but IF YOU WILL RECEIVE IT, let us just say that it is him BECAUSE he has a similar role to THAT Elijah who is YET to come. BUT what exactly do you guys want? A type of Elijah came, and you said he has a demon. I came without such ascetic traits, you have further complaints!

Don't you get it? Meaning that John the Baptist wasn't the Elijah that was to come first!

Let's see what John says about the prophecy that declared his own coming, he never said he was the messenger of Mal 3:1 or Mal 4:5 BUT RATHER the messenger of Isa 40:3

Isa 40:3  The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

That was in the spirit of Elijah, as John the Baptist did. In the mannerism of Elijah, as he did in 1 Ki 18:21

1Ki 18:21  And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

Luke 1:16 "And he will turn back many of the sons of Israel to the Lord their God.

I already said that there was a clear distinction between the spirit (mannerism) and the soul (the essence of vitality) of a person, and that difference was well known as shown in the Bible. So, when it is said "in the spirit of Elijah", does that mean "in the soul of Elijah"?

2Ki 1:8  And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite.

Mat 3:4  And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

It is not indicated that John was hairy, but he had to appear in a similitude of Elijah, so he wore camel's hair, to make the people VISUALLY REMEMBER the choice they had to face in the days of Elijah (as would have been recounted to them by their forefathers). To make people remember to stand up for God. He was a type of Elijah in person, but he was NOT Elijah!!!!

Elijah and John were alike in mannerism, and that is why Jesus said "If you want to see it that way, John is the Elijah that was promised! Although THAT Elijah is still yet to come!!"

Mat 11:14  And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

Mat 17:10  And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mat 17:11  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Mat 17:12  But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Mat 17:13  Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

The fact that the disciples "understood that he spake to them of" John the Baptist simply shows that he was using an allegory of Elijah, and NOW they understood what he was talking about. But he CLEARLY said (v11) Elijah TRULY SHALL COME FIRST AND RESTORE ALL THINGS.

I ask you again, Deep Sight, did John the Baptist restore all things? Ehn?

No he didn't! He only prepared the way for Christ, the same way Elijah prepared the hearts of the people for the love of God to find a way back in their hearts. THAT is why he was in the spirit of Elijah.

Besides John denying being Elijah, Mark 6:14-16 and 8:28 show that both the people and Herod distinguished between John the Baptist and Elijah. Even those blind bats knew that he wasn't Elijah, he was a kind of wannabe!

And I will round off by quoting Bible verses that make reincarnation crumble:

2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
When you are absent from the body, you are present with the Lord; and not present in another body as another person, maybe a newborn movie star-to-be in Hollywood.

Luke 16:19-31 describes Dives (the rich man) and Lazarus, and it affirms that the guy was not going to re-incarnate. Dives begged Abraham to allow Lazarus (he was still thinking like a big man, sending the poor Lazarus on errands) to return with a message for his 5 brothers. Return could be resurrect, reincarnate or resuscitate, which are all different. Abraham simply replied that THEY STILL WILL NOT LISTEN, EVEN IF ONE ROSE FROM THE DEAD. resuscitation was out of the question cos Lazarus was physically dead. Reincarnation was obviously fallacious because Dives was in hell, and not in another body. The last option was resurrection, and Abraham said EVEN IF, meaning it was a possibility, but it won't even make a difference in this case. This makes resurrection an acceptable fact, but reincarnation? Come on! Why would Dives be roasting in hell if he had reincarnated?

Luk 23:43  And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Jesus to the thief on the cross. Why not "today you will be inside a brown cow in Egypt?"

We must also remember that Jesus taught that people decide their eternal destiny in a single lifetime (Matthew 25:46). This is precisely why the apostle Paul emphasized that "now is the day of salvation" (2 Corinthians 6:2).

Okay, now some last minute quizzes, just two of them. DeepSight, please attend?

[color=#990099]If the purpose of karma is to rid humanity of its selfish desires, then why has there not been a noticeable improvement in human nature after all the millennia of reincarnations on earth?

If reincarnation and the law of karma are so beneficial on a practical level, how do we explain the immense and ever-worsening social and economic problems - widespread poverty, starvation, disease, and horrible suffering - in India, where reincarnation has been systematically taught throughout its history?[/color]

Deep Sight:
And who are you trying to make fun of here? You, who believe that a human being is God, have the nerve to insinuate that believing in reincarnation is as silly as believing in santa and red unicorns? ? ? You, who believe that paradise is in Hades - the land of the dead - regardless of what Ecclesiates 9:5 says of the land of the dead? You who invent stories about paradise being "moved" from the land of the dead to "heaven" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Who should be talking about Santa Claus and Red Unicorns dear Maven?

LMAO I laugh in the Queen's Gambit! At the root of any deistic worldview is irrationality, humanly speaking. That is why faith is required. Red Unicorns or Talking Dragons or Flying Monkeys, I don't give a damn! When I didn't know better, I was busy putting down other people's faith. But now? Nah I'm much wiser. I was just saying, DO NOT bring your fables into Christianity. All the things you mentioned above, are a part of my worldview, adequately supported by the Scriptures, broadly agreed to by men who have given their lives over to the diligent study of the scriptures. You don't have to believe it, Deep Sight, the same way I will never have to believe that, say, Amadioha is the way to go. So as long as it's in my worldview, I won't have anyone coming up and trying to force-fit fables and old wives' tales into it. Yes, you can say that my views on Eden are like fables, but it's all in my worldview, and clearly expressed there too (by the way, have you yet found any Christian who is confidently sure that I am wrong in all those postulations, and can back it up by Scriptures? If you haven't, do you claim then to know more about our faith than we do? That would be terrific). And lastly, whenever I make surmises based on personal revelation, I indicate that it is IMO (In my opinion), and in those cases THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DETERRENCE OF SALVATION FOR OTHERS! If they accept the views, it explains some things in better light. If they do not, it's fine! That's why its personal revelation. So, what's the problem, really? It's my faith, Deep Sight! Deal with it!!!

And now to the subject matter. You say I am lying, as well as my "mentor" Viaro (Mind you, I have no mentor on NL, at least not yet. I only have some people I have deep respect for). And right now I just won some really tough chess games so I am in a good mood. I am not lying, and I will summarily present how it is YOU that has distorted Christ's words, in the next post.

Oh thanks, pastor AIO. But that was long ago, i was only 15. Im glad to say she lived well, and Im just part of the evidence.

Lol about the pot-bellied so-called well-to-do. Disgusting! Lol. I agree on the bottled water idea, I do that often, concealed in my excusably BIG bag cos i drink a lot of water in this hot country. Lol

@Pastor AIO: well, kinda true but in my case my mum was a medical officer in perfect health! We were in Nigeria, towards Xmas, and She, ever careful driver, died travelling along a terrible (now slightly better) Nigerian road because of a careless trailer driver's mistake! Twas very fatal, involved a car & 2 buses. That one was an asteroidal collision, and I believe it could have been averted by timely intercession.

pastor AIO and manmustwac, I get your points. But im not too hasty to generalize about 9jerians, and personally I believe someone who respects God will respect creation, nature, human life, health, hygiene. Asides the Biblical order to take care of the temple of the Holy Spirit, my God set me as a caretaker, an ambassador of His, on assignment on earth! There are enough hazards to deal with in space, collisions to avoid, so if I blow up my own spaceship by myself, how will I get to the Andromeda galaxy? My body is my license I have to fulfil my role on earth. So I need to pay attention to it, be fit, look good, stay healthy, live long. By analogy, prayers will avert the asteroidal collisions but will not prevent the astronaut from foolishly causing a fire in the spaceship's fuel tank! There's only so much prayer can do, but God can mercifully intervene.

Lol! This thread is so much fun. Viaro presents sauced & skewered Marlbron-flavored mincemeat. Hehehe.

My own point is that anybody is free to believe in reincarnation or that Santa Claus has a red unicorn, just dont invade my worldview and tell me MY BIBLE says what it doznt!

Marlbron, I would advise you not to debate quantum physics & multiverses with viaro, unless you know your onions! But if u insist, pls take it to another thread!!

Nuclearboy! Abeg pls discuss against me if I misyarn or misrepresent our faith on NL o. Lol. I am not beyond correction, but the correction is by the Word & the Spirit. Happy Sunday, Egbon.

Pastor AIO: okay then. i guess i was too fast to object.

Pastor AIO: I lie if I say im not entirely amazed at what you said above, because you are usually objective. I dont think its fair to say that, at least not on this thread. How do you know for sure that she didnt die in an auto accident, a congenital illness or something neutral to your ideas? I live in 9ja and I know MANY people who eat and live healthy, but yet die young. Maybe your post would have made a better mark on the NL Food or Health board? But yes of cos you dont post outside religion threads. :-/

@toneyb: I was answering manmustwac's question, if I was replying you my manner of expression would be different. Stop seeking rationale for everything, not everything is yet explicable by man.

@viaro: LOL I loooove cola too! It really does it for me. I'm in Nigeria and it's 1:40am. If I dont leave NL now I will sleep in late, and its church in the morning! Goodnight, brother.

P.S. I will return maybe in 24 hours and see where the discussion has gone North, East or South (I am doubting the west-side, it has been shown that people don't re-incarnate there   otherwise we would have another Tupac spitting the rhymes like tomorrow has not yet been born)  

@marlbron: Not to worry, I wont discuss Christ's second coming with you. You appear to have an informed opinion already, why should I dis-illusion you? Cheerio

@seeklove: Since you're such a ninnyhammer, and you're too fatuous to see what i was saying, eat this from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_to_the_hand_%28expression%29

"Talk to the hand" (or "tell it to the hand" is an English language slang phrase associated with the 1990s. It originated as a contemptuous way of saying that no one is listening, and is often elongated to a phrase such as "Talk to the hand, because the ear's not listening".

@manmustwac:

Pro 3:1  My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
Pro 3:2  For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee.

Psa 91:15  He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.
Psa 91:16  With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.

They are God's promises to whoever believes and walks with it.

@nuclearboy: LOL By the time Viaro and DeepSight return to this thread . . . hehehe

I no get plenty time right now, gotta sleep before church tomorrow so i didnt read your post at length, Marlbron, but I must clarify the regeneration issue: See the various translations to get a better picture!

Mat 19:28  And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mat 19:28  Jesus replied, "Yes, you have followed me. In the re-creation of the world, when the Son of Man will rule gloriously, you who have followed me will also rule, starting with the twelve tribes of Israel.

Mat 19:28  Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you, in the new age [the Messianic rebirth of the world], when the Son of Man shall sit down on the throne of His glory, you who have [become My disciples, sided with My party and] followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones and judge the twelve tribes of Israel.

And do you still hold on to what you said initially? The KJV word translated as regeneration is paliggenesia

paliggenesia: (spiritual) rebirth (the state or the act), that is, (figuratively) spiritual renovation; specifically Messianic restoration: - regeneration.

and it also occurs in Titus 3:5

Titus 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Titus 3:5  He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we had done, but because of His own pity and mercy, by [the] cleansing [bath] of the new birth (regeneration) and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Hope it's clearer to you now, sir?  'Cos you have misquoted that verse entirely, professor.

Be back to comment on the rest, maybe tomorrow. I mean, today (its past 12 now)

Edit: Beware when you quote Titus as Ti't e.g. Ti't 3:5 becomes Bosom 3:5 

@last 4 posts: Talk to my hand

Dr. Simon Greenleaf (a Harvard University professor of Law) states: "According to the laws of legal evidence used in courts of law, there is more evidence for the historical fact of the resurrection of Jesus Christ than for just about any other event in history."

It's one thing to have no regard for God, or belief in God. It's another thing to be entirely inhumane and insensitive to a fellow human being. . .

@freecocoa:   Cheer up, my darling sister. Trust me, I understand 'cos my own Mum went to heaven too some years back, and I was just 15! I want you to know that she's in a much better place, even as our faith makes us understand. She lived well. Please keep living in a way that will keep her proud of you. I will get in touch with you in a couple of days. Wipe your tears, lovey   and hang in there, your family needs you now more than ever!

Missing JeSoul. Where are you, my sister?

Oops. Sorry! Off-topic!!

@Topic: It's not okay in God's eyes.

THE MESSAGE
[size=14pt]Luk 6:34 If you only give for what you hope to get out of it, do you think that's charity? The stingiest of pawnbrokers does that.[/size]

marlbron said:

Some people can ressurrect and live on earth without being born. We hear stories of people who are dead and now seen and living in other parts, even marrying. Once you ask them to take them to their village, they become reluctant and when you insist, they even disappear completely, leaving wife etc behind!

Viaro! replied:

Intriguing. Examples, please?

LMAO!!! I no fit laugh abeg!!!  

mazaje:
Blabla bla. . .More nonsense drivel. . .Where is the location of the empty tomb you claim is still in existence?

OLAADEGBU:
While you are still looking for the empty tomb can you tell us whether your brain exists? if it does have you seen it? and if the answer is no can we then conclude that it (your brain) does not exist?

@Olaadegbu: LOL! Good one. He may resort to devices like a computer tomographic scan to prove that his brain exists, but may I also ask him to prove that his MIND exists? And his emotions?

@Topic: Pastor AIO and TV01 have said the absolutely needful! Best Regards