₦airaland Forum

Please show me the misrepresentation.

case I:
A: I mentioned a representation of God
B: You mentioned a representation of the devil and Hitler

A misrepresentation, a deception, a wilful perversion of facts, to the intent to throw the meaning of my expression out of the window.

Case II:
A: I mentioned an immaculate conception, and said "A lab tech can cause fertilization without human beings PRESENT" i.e. skipping the s'ex stage, the sperms and eggs are combined, so if that can happen, why can't God cause the egg to be fertilized without an intercourse with Joseph?
B: Seeklove shows up and says "No lab tech has ever achieved fertilization without human beings present. . . do you even know what a spermatozoa is? . . . Research well before posting. . ." etc, at least you didn't say you also own a chocolate factory.

Does this show that you read what I said, or were just ready to rush into a blind argument? Like an uneducated person? And here you did it again. After less than two pages of addressing a pertinent issue (and you said you were OBSERVING for a while, possibly another lie, cos if you were you would see Deep Sight agreeing on my claims that the title was a misnomer), you appear on scene mouth first.

seeklove:
So it has come to this?? Even in this you are wrong. Paradise is and was never a part of Hades, Gehanna, and Tartarus. Those are always reffered to as a bad place.

Show where Paradise which was created by God, was ever reffered to as Hades, Gehanna, or Tartarus.

I am not in the habit of repeating myself, go and read the first page of this thread.

@seeklove:
You have shown a very heavy lack of comprehension of simple messages, and a moronic assimilation of facts, so I am sure you can not see how you misrepresented me.

Here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=385361.msg5370734#msg5370734 you were replying to my post where I said that God does not have a "physical" form, and so He can choose to be seen and apprehended by any man in any way he wants to, and you showed up, quoted me, and started asking if God could show up as the devil or hitler.   Did that make sense in the context of the thread title "Drawing God and Heaven"? Was it not an attempt to misrepresent my honest answer to mazaje, who had even understood what I was trying to say?

Here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=79465.msg5175396#msg5175396 I spoke of immaculate conception, and said that God can skip the s'ex stage if He wants to, and you iterated that I do not know what a spermatozoa is, and that "fertilization can not be done without the presence of a human being" and other shenanigans that left me amazed.

In each case, I simply exited the thread. But to bring the idiocy to a thread where someone has already misrepresented me and you're signing up as his apostle, I will not take it lying down. Go and suck eggs.

@cocoman4u:

cocoman4u:
Here you said it.

Quote from: Mavenb0x on Today at 03:36:05 AM
In Revelation 1:18, our Lord has the keys or control of The Unseen and of death. That is, He is master of the unseen world which in the Christian system includes Hades, Tartarus, [size=18pt]and the kingdom of Satan in the atmosphere of this earth[/size].

case closed. Seeklove gets to keep his degree.

Please what do you mean by the kingdom of Satan, if not hell.

What time is it over there, cocoman4u? I think you need to sleep or something. Is hell in the atmosphere of this earth?

seeklove:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell

The above is from wikipedia.
Hades, Gehenna, and etc does not exactly correspond to the exact meaning of the English word "Hell." Hell, in the Christian belief is described above.

I re-quote:
Paradise is not and was never a part of hell.

You still haven't gotten it, right? Sigh. Now I'm certain that the UCLA degree was just a lie. Let me break it down for you like it's done in Primary School:

1. I never said Paradise is a part of hell.
2. Deep Sight, either in misunderstanding, or out of spite, created a thread with that title
3. I took him to task about it (post 2) and he outlined the "caveat emptor" that he had hidden away (lawyers know how to do this) in post 1. I had seen the "caveat emptor" but he KNEW as well as we all do, that many people would not see it because the thread would progress beyond the first page and the Thread Title is what gets noticed.
4. This is not the first time Deep Sight will attempt to misrepresent me.
5. I decided to explain all the meanings of the words translated HELL in the Bible so that Deep Sight will see the ONE (Hades) that I meant, which is not Tartarus, which is not Gehenna, but HADES (Hebrew Sheol), the place of the unseen: a spiritual place.
6. I outlined how paradise was also a place UNSEEN, and was thus a component of Hades.
7. Those things you quoted from Wikipedia are already a part of my discussion, if you took the energy and time to read it. In fact, the part about Tartarus is already quoted in my discussion of Tartarus.

If you still do not understand, then you are even worse than I imagined. When I was 5 I would understand something that is broken down this way.

@seeklove:
First off, I am not your dear. Cut that out, or simply excise your tongue.  I will do it for you if you refuse to use your head.

Secondly, what education are you rendering here right now? You are repeating things I already said on the thread, with the added advantage of some ninnyhammerical embellishments. . .

Thirdly, you said

Also I never said anything about who is the administrator of hell. Actually it was you who inferred that Satan is the administrator of Hell by saying that Hell is the kingdom of Satan.

If you will not show me where I said that Hell is the Kingdom of Satan, I think you need to sue UCLA, and your masters (and aftertwards your baccalaureate) degree should be revoked, and you should go back to Nigeria and make an attempt at JAMB.

I am only laughing as you make a fool of yourself.

An objective reader of this thread, except for those with expired sense of judgment, will see that it's the OP that's dancing in circles now, since he no longer has anything to say. And it's you that's making a fool of yourself: a masters at UCLA and you can't make simple deductions from a discussion. That is the problem with people that "cram" in order to pass.

As I said in post #2, Deep Sight misnamed the thread for his own devious purposes. If the moderators were willing to change the topic appropriately, they would. But I doubt that it would happen. So, when a golem shows up here and makes posts without reading the attendant discussion, I will reply them with as much courtesy as they did when they barged into the thread senselessly.

@h2o2: You know why I didn't react to you like I am doing to seeklove? I know you are objective when you want to be. I'm sorry about the outburst, but you should really have read the conversation. Will the mods lock the thread? I doubt it. It's generating traffic for Nairaland.

Seeklove: The UCLA alumnus that lies through his teeth (maybe the UCLA bit was a lie too)

I have only interacted with you [size=18pt]once[/size] in the past, where you claimed that God can take any form

1. Seeklove attempts to prove to me that Jesus' birth was by nature of spermatozoan fertilization by Joseph sleeping with Mary, and says I do not know what a sperm is, and I should "do more research before posting"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=79465.msg5175396#msg5175396

1. Seeklove places a limitation on God
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=385361.msg5370734#msg5370734

1. The inane post on this thread
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=389094.msg5407352#msg5407352

In between post #1 and post #1 above (the first two #1s), there were other posts on the self-same threads. And yet he has only interacted with me ONCE.

As a friend of mine likes saying, You can lie o! When did tortoise fall from the sky and now crack back?  

Come on! I can ignore you twice but if you keep making posts without reading what I am saying I will show you pepper. Who cares if you think I'm not a Christian? How does that clothe you and put food on your table? Why not watch your own self? Now you can scamper off and go and tidy up your school assignments.  

H2O2: I am certain you DID NOT read the thread, and so you can't understand. And when one does not understand, it's better to remain silent than say what one does not know anything about. Deep Sight deliberately misrepresented me, and it has all been addressed earlier. Go figure abeg.

Seeklove: May you find the love you seek. Make sure you check Gehenna, the refuse dump. Birds of a feather flock together.

seeklove:
So much for christian spirit. Thanks allot for your insults. I am an idiot just because I expressed my opinion. I have read the whole thread, your argument does not make sense. I didn't want to say it earlier so that you dont take it personal. But despite my trying not to offend you, you still got offended and attributed idiocy to me just because I expressed my opinion.

I have more than a thousand reasons and scriptures to support that Paradise is not in hell. I have studied the scriptures very well, if you don't know, know it now.  

What you are preaching here makes the whole idea of Christianity a mockery.

Paradise inside hell!! Please!!!!

I have an excellent memory, and I remember the NL usernames of everyone that I have EVER interacted with. I don't forget names OR faces. YOU, in particular, have been notorious in the past for misrepresenting what I say and pretending to see things that are way above your head. You are not a Christian, so what do you know about The mockery of Christianity? Can you go to the Eskimos and tell them their history and cultural beliefs or will you go and tell them what you read on Wikipedia? Get a life.

And there again you repeat the arrant nonsense that makes me question your wasted UCLA Masters degree. After much explanation of translation limitations, you still repeat that Paradise is inside hell. How did you pass your O'level exams?

Abu Zola:
Lol, maven na insult monger. You don't blame her she is a young girl

Abuzola, don't let me get started on you. You will hate me if I do, I warn you. What do you know about my age, besides your faulty assumptions? Return to your drawing board.

seeklove:
Bob marley and peter tosh sang this song:

Precherman dont tell me heaven in under the earth.
I know you dont know what life is really worth
It's not all that gliters is gold,
and half history has never been told.

Now you seen the light.
Stand up for your rights.

Heaven is not under the earth. Paradise is not in hell. Hell is under the earth, and paradise is and has never been under the earth. Hell is the domain of the devil and its servants.

And then seeklove adds some irrelevant song to the mix. What do you think of this one too? 

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
  Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
  And the mome raths outgrabe.


"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!"

He took his vorpal sword in hand:
  Long time the manxome foe he sought --
So rested he by the Tumtum tree,
  And stood awhile in thought.

And, as in uffish thought he stood,
  The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
  And burbled as it came!

One, two! One, two! And through and through
  The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
  He went galumphing back.

"And, has thou slain the Jabberwock?
  Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!'
  He chortled in his joy.


`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
  Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
  And the mome raths outgrabe.

What's my business what Bob Marley said? Is he your god, or are you on dope? Just because he said it, I should kiss his feet?

Heaven is not under the earth. Paradise is not in hell. Hell is under the earth, and paradise is and has never been under the earth. Hell is the domain of the devil and its servants.

So hell is under the earth. What did you study again? Pity. And I'm a Nigerian too (shakes head)

@seeklove:

seeklove:
You asking me to go to school? I am sure I have more and better education than you. I have a masters degree from UCLA. What do you have and where did you go to school?

Even you said so. Here is your ealier post:
You said it cleary that Hell is the kingdom of satan. So paradise was in the Kingdom of satan.

Weird!!!

I am not one to boast of my education, it's only a means to an end. I think your own end is very obvious on this thread, as well as mine is. However, be assured that I have enjoyed the most excellent of schooling, and I'm almost at the pinnacle already.

I said:

1. In Revelation 1:18, our Lord has the keys or control of The Unseen and of death. That is, He is master of the unseen world which in the Christian system includes Hades, Tartarus, and the kingdom of Satan in the atmosphere of this earth.

and you thus concluded that Satan is the owner and administrator of hell, and hell is his DOMINION. Everybody with a brain between their ears caan see that I was listing unseen worlds, and stating that it includes
1. Hades (the grave, the holding-place for the wicked dead)
2. Tartarus (prison for the fallen angels)
3. The kingdom of Satan (Satan and all his minions) on earth

With your UCLA Masters degree, you concluded that #3 is the description of hell, even when hell (Gehenna) is not listed. Again, is hell on earth, for Satan and his minions to have dominion on? Satan while tempting Jesus showed him the kingdoms of the WORLD in an instant and said that they had been handed over to him (by Adam, obviously). THAT is what Satan has dominion over: the world systems. THAT is why the Bible calls him the god of this world.

See why I was questioning your education? This is simple comprehension, are you sure you have a masters from UCLA? Because then you would have some knowledge of comprehension after your GRE papers.

FINALLY, for your information, I almost never attack people in discussion, but if you give me cra'p I will take you to the streets, drag you in the mud and leave what's left of you for the homeless dogs to feed on.

seeklove:
This is weird. Very very weird indeed.

I thought Hell was the dominion of Satan. Now if paradise was part of hell, so paradise was also the dominion of Satan.

If Lagos is in Nigeria, therefore Lagos is under the Nigerian government. = If paradise is in hell therefore paradise is under the hellish government of the devil.


I have never read anything more weird than this in my life.

@seeklove: Dumbo. You are here again with your idiocy. Go to school, return and read the thread of posts, see where Deep Sight has misconstrued the definition of hell, and swallow your foot. 

Besides, who told you that hell is the "dominion" of satan? He will be a prisoner there, as well as all those that lent their ears to his deception. Is a chief prisoner the administrator or owner of the prison? Shiorrr.

@Viaro: I don't drink, but I don't think it's wrong. I think I'm "crazy" enough and liable to fly off the handle without any liquor helping me out! LOL

Given Deep's posts on this thread, I would think he was RETURNING from a club after roughly 3 hours of time well spent there

Viaro, catch am o! Make e no go! LOL

Deep Sight:
Nah. Ecclesiates states - "conscious of nothing at all" - so it is beyond me that you contradict it and state - "no - another type of consciousness."

Typical escapism, i am getting used to your disrespect for your own scriptures.

Anyhow, i do not want to derail - let's get back to your interesting surmise of Paradise being located in hell - where there is no "perception!"

And please wipe that snot away from your nose: I never said Paradise was in HELL. I said HADES. Are you telling me you didn't

1. READ
2. UNDERSTAND
3. ASSIMILATE
4. or all of the above,

what I took time to portray about the translations into English? Or you glossed over it because you can?

Your affinity for deriving meaning that makes sense to you alone out of clearly defined scriptures must be a gift of yours, courtesy of your OOI god.

Now you speak of CONTEXT, which viaro had already presented to you and you ignored

Just get back to the topic, these deviations are inane.

It's YOU, Deep, that is wasting the time of everyone reading this thread because Viaro has said TWICE and I have said ONCE that there is another type of consciousness in the UNSEEN realms that is not palpable in the SEEN realms.

[size=13pt]
Consciousness is an aspect of life, and since the LIFE is different, the CONSCIOUSNESS will be different.[/size]

Besides telling you, Viaro gave you examples of scripture references which you artfully dodged like Bill Fagin's protege.

imhotep:
THE AWAKENED MAN . . .

A village girl became an unwed mother and, after several beatings, revealed who the father was: the Master living on the outskirts of the village.

The villagers trooped into the Master’s house, rudely disturbed his meditation, denounced him as a hypocrite and told him to keep the baby.
All the Master said was, “Very well. Very well.” He picked the baby up and made arrangements with the woman next door to look after
it at his expense.

His name, of course, was ruined, and his disciples all abandoned him.
When this had gone on for a year, the girl could bear if no longer and confessed that she had lied: The father was the boy next door.

The villagers bowed profoundly to the Master to beg his pardon and ask to take the baby back.
And all the Master said as he handed back the child was, “Very well. Very well.”

I LOVE that story! Thanks for sharing, Imhotep.

Is that why you are yelling in CAPS? Can we not have a civilized discussion without raising our voices like barbarians? Thank God I am not there, maybe I would have gotten a complementary slap induced by your defeat-engendered red eyes!

Yes of course I agree that Elijah was translated into the heavens BODILY. He DID NOT DIE. Death is a separation of spirit and body, which did not happen in his case.

1 . Tell me, where is it written that a physical body cannot enter into heaven?

2. When Jesus ascended bodily, did he by any chance park his body in the stratosphere, or on planet OOI, before arriving at heaven bodiless?

Viaro I tire for the guy jare. He never used to be like this in my early days on NL when he was arguing with Noetic and Davidylan. Thanks for the extra info on yada!

@Deep Sight (I may not use that name any longer, it appears to be proving to be a misnomer): As for Lazarus and Dives, viaro already explained that there are other "levels" or "types" of consciousness in Sheol, the place of the Unseen. They may not have physical sight, but they can SEE in other means. Or have you not heard of blind men that can tell where they are, by other senses? That's even beside the point, but it's a close physical analogy.

There is a spiritual body, and there is a physical body. It is just plain silly to state that a man born blind who dies blind will not have any form of sight in the afterlife. Does that make sense to any rational mind of any age?

@Viaro: No mind this Shallow Sighted man o! He will not address the topic of the thread, but will raise other nonsense and when they are proven spurious he will come up with another irrelevant concept (or in recent times, redefine his stand and keep arguing blindly) in the face of evidence.

@Deep Sight: My brother likes to say that when 5 people call you a donkey, you'd better get your saddle on. If we (Christians) and non-Christians like Krayola, and atheists like Mazaje say that your logic is circuitous, time-wasting and inane, does that not make you stop and consider the truth in it? I was accused of making long posts, but I have never been accused of making senseless posts (at least, not yet, except when I am trying to make a joke)

Do you think the SEE means a physical sight? If one is asked to "see what someone else is up to", does it necessarily involve a physical sight?

Is SIGHT not used to mean a primary sense of interaction with the subject?

I think you're more intelligent than this. I would have expected this kind of conversation with an old (rather senile) acquaintance on NL (surname non-disclosed, but viaro and nuclearboy should know who I mean  ), and not you.

Deep Sight:
Maven - do you also take the stand that physical bodies such as we currently have may dwell in spiritual realms bodily?

Just asking so i address it 2moro.

Men Elijah it would be interesting o. Elijah must be eating physical food to sustain his physical body while he is in heaven. Doubtless he will be defecating there too, since that is a physical imperative of the physical body. Marvelous! These Christians. . . 2moro sha.

The depth of your legal profession in contrast to the logical deductions you make on this forum amaze me, Deep Sight. If an atheist had said the above, it would make some sense. You say that God is the prime creator, and that he set the natural laws in order. So, like I have asked you in the past, does God bend to serve natural laws, or do they bend to serve him - their creator, maintainer and establisher?

What is eating and defecating, if not natural laws? Can they, like aging, be held in suspension by spiritual influence, or can they not? What goes on in your head, Deep Sight, how do you come up with these illations?

@Viaro: LOL it happened again! Great minds think alike, I have heard Besides, now you have KNOWN another reason why. . .

@Deep Sight: since you're being so stubborn, I had to dig up the Hebrew word translated as "know", and it is "yada". See the definition below (image attached because of Hebrew Characters), I can't copy and paste from my Strong's concordance software cos Im not on my PC.

So, if the KNOW means to SEE, isn't it clear that those in the UNSEEN realms cannot KNOW?

Is that too hard for you to grasp, sir?

Viaro, judging by your time of post, I am CERTAIN that you did not read my post before you answered, but ONCE AGAIN you have relayed my exact mind on the matter. Thanks again!

Abuzola, after your solemn promises (maybe you were sober that day) to stay away from derailing threads and causing trouble, you are here again.

If you do not make any further meaningful sense on this thread, I will either insult you or ignore you. I think more likely, the latter.

Deep Sight:
Thank you Mavenbox.

Can you address this for me -

Ecclesiates 9:5 -

"For the living know that they shall die; but the dead are conscious of nothing at all - neither have they any further reward - even the memory of them is forgotten."

This clearly suggest that Hades is a place of no consciousness at all.

How do you reconcile your ideas of paradise, comfort, abraham's bosom, the garden of eden, etc etc - all being in a place of no consciousness at all - Hades?

You have (deliberately?) taken the post out of its context, because I will quote the entire scripture below:

I am not on my PC so I will quote from http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ecclesiastes+9&version=NIV

3 This is the evil in everything that happens under the sun: The same destiny overtakes all. The hearts of men, moreover, are full of evil and there is madness in their hearts while they live, and afterward they join the dead. 4 Anyone who is among the living has hope [b] —even a live dog is better off than a dead lion!

5 For the living know that they will die,
      but the dead know nothing;
      they have no further reward,
      and even the memory of them is forgotten.

6 Their love, their hate
      and their jealousy have long since vanished;
     never again will they have a part
      in anything that happens under the sun.

The scripture you have misconstrued above never indicated that the agents and entities in Sheol have no consciousness. Rather, it makes it clear that they have no PHYSICAL INFLUENCE in the SEEN realms that they can partake of (see the red emboldened part). Even Dives' request to send Lazarus to change his brothers' lives was turned down flat by Abraham. So what exactly is your point?  

Viaro, wow thanks for the holistic / reductionist gist above.

Can you believe you just made some things VERY clear in some research I am currently doing!!! It just plopped into my heart like a daisy!

God bless you, bro.

@ilosiwaju:

If i visit a 12-year old girl around 10pm telling her father i really love her and in the process they release bingo and he gives me a god biting, thats deserved!

In this case, you have suffered because of your action of intruding into the mans privacy to "molest" his daughter, howbeit not physically, but you are making light of his protection over his daughter. Yes, its deserved, and it's your fault

but on the other hand, why should people die of hunger in Africa for example when American farmers are paid to destroy some of their produce?

Yes, unfortunately people not only suffer for the sake of their own misguided actions and inactions, they also suffer because of other people's misguided actions and inactions. I don't know about Americans destroying African farms though. Do you have any evidence to produce on that, sir?

Examine the holocaust, what's your take? 6 million people(including infants and toddlers) sinned and deserved to be punished? as a matter of fact, were jews not supposed to be God's chosen people? If a german can kill like 6million of your people i wonder what becomes of blacks like us(though God created everyone anyway).
talk to me maven.

Once again, I said, people suffer for other people's misguided actions and inactions. There were Jews who survived the holocaust, and for various reasons, but I want you to consider the fact that there were people who received divine insight into means of escaping the Gestapo, and they survived all the same.

Furthermore, you refer to the death of the chosen ones. Do you know how brave warriors that died in war, are awarded medals in post-mortem in the army? It is far more glorious in the case of God's chosen people. It is even better to be away from here than to be here, but yes, it is a painful process (in most cases) and also we love to stay because we are on assignment here.

If I get a clear message tonight from God that my assignment on earth is done, I would gladly rejoice and leave for heaven. There's nothing here on earth! I hope your questions are answered, sir.

Regards,

Emi nikan.

Quoting Deep Sight (he claimed that I said):

1. That paradise is in Hell

  2. That the tree of life spoken about in the Bible is in Hell

  3. That paradise will be moved from Hell to Heaven at the end of time

  4. That the garden of Eden was in Hell.

Rather, I said, [see the differentiating posts above]

1. Paradise, before Christ's resurrection, was part of Hades (the place of the Unseen). After Christ's resurrection, those who used to be in Paradise are now in Heaven, so can we then say that Paradise was left behind in "Hades"? Of course not, the inhabitants were now in Heaven, which gives for my statement that paradise "moved" to heaven, I was talking about the "contents" of Paradise.

2. The tree of life spoken about in the Bible is in the Paradise of God. Understanding that this "paradise", being an "Unseen" was also in Hades, then we see that the tree of life is in that "Unseen" place called Hades. I never said it was in Hell, but this is a logical proceeding from point 1 above, which Deep Sight deliberately misconstrued.

3. I said the "paradise project" was moved from HADES to HEAVEN meaning that the ones who were in Hades' Paradise now had the authority to be called God's Sons and to be in His presence, they could now enter into Heaven after Christ.

Christ himself said that nobody had gone into the Father's Presence except HIMSELF who also came from there. All the others were in holding, in Sheol, in Hades, the place of the Unseen, a temporary place, waiting for resurrection while the wicked ones languished in pain (c.f. Lazarus and Dives).

HEAVEN is God's presence, and it is wherever he is. God will not dwell with unclean beings, so not until Christ's sins had cleansed the filth, nobody was able to enter into God's presence : heaven. They were in a temporary place. Called Sheol. Called Hades. NOT HELL!

e.g. an American citizen survived Haiti's earthquake but was stranded, he couldn't go home and had to stay at the American embassy while his transport was being worked out. In this case, the "embassy" would be Paradise, which is a part of the "Unseen World" Hades or Sheol. I wonder how difficult that can be, Deep Sight? I think you're way too intelligent for all this cra'p dribble that you're doing here.

4. What is this? You simply repeated claim #2 and twisted it to be portrayed as a fresh claim?  Isn't it known that the Garden of Eden houses the tree of life, and that the Garden of Eden is also an Unseen in the Sheol / Hades world, in the Paradise section? You seem to like running round in circles. 

Mavenbox said:

The word hades occurs ten times in the New Testament, and always refers to the unseen realm of the dead—the receptacle of disembodied spirits where all people who die await for the Lord’s return and judgment. One part of hades, where Jesus and the thief went, is known as paradise

I believe this has been addressed above, for those that have a mind to actually read through.

Mavenbox said:

If Goshen was in a plagued Egypt, why can't the temporary paradise be in Hades as the Bible says?

I said this because Deep Sight was speaking GEOGRAPHICALLY. He was asking how a thing of JOY and LIFE could be in a place referred to as the UNSEEN REALMS OF THE DEAD. And I remember telling him that spiritual matters have little or nothing to derive from physical locations, rather, they INFLUENCE the physical locations.

So I had to enter into physical geographical sense with Deep Sight since his heart was hard to spiritual exegesis, and I was asking that if Goshen could be in Egypt, and not be affected by PHYSICAL manifestations in Egypt, why can't Paradise be in Hades, that is commonly known as a place for the dead?

Isn't it clear that the influence that God brings to bear on paradise will distinguish it from the rest of Hades, like the influence he brought to bear on Goshen made it a holy place in the midst of death, danger, and turmoil? And did I not refer to the similarity between Jesus and Moses in their roles to retrieve the Blessed Ones from the temporary place into the place of God's promise?

Deep Sight, I have said it, you LOVE running in circles, and maybe you can keep engaging Viaro in that 'cos I don't like my time being wasted (I guess he doesn't either, but he likes to ensure his point is proven. If someone wastes my own time, I just leave them behind running in circles in the sand).

I dont have time to go and start re-quoting myself but anyone who doubts it can simply visit the former thread. I swear I don't have time for all this shenanigan.

The rest of the things that I said, are clearly expressed in all the posts I have made on this thread. Anyone who really wants to understand can read them.

@Everyone: Thank you for reading, long as the posts were, and thanks for not interrupting my flow of posts. I asked for that because I wanted to ensure I was well understood. The questions and other comments can come in now. Muchos Gracias.

[size=13pt]"Tartarosas"[/size] is the word in II Peter 2:4 "cast down to hell." The fallen angels were sent to their temporary prison house, Tartarus, until the Great White Throne judgement.

From Wikipedia:

The term "Tartarus" is found only once in the Bible, at 2 Peter 2:4: "God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tartarus, delivered them into pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment." It would seem to be a synonym of the "Abyss". In Luke 8:31, the Legion of demons begs Jesus not to send them to the Abyss. "The Beast" of Revelation, will come up out of the Abyss (Revelation 11:7; 17:8 ). Satan will be thrown into the Abyss for 1000 years (Revelation 20:3).

The term "Hades" appears in the religious texts of New Testament times as a translation of the Old Testament Sheol.

In most English Bibles, the word Tartarus is simply translated as Hell, even though early Christian writers usually used the term Gehenna, the Hinnom Valley, to mean hell. In some sense, this dark place matches the term's traditional meaning, a dark pit in which the Supreme God has cast his spirit enemies. However, it is separate from the Lake of Fire which is the place of eternal fiery punishment that most people think of when they think of "Hell". This is evidenced in Revelation 20, where Satan is released from the Abyss (v. 3) and later thrown in the "Lake of Burning Sulfur" (v. 10), where he will be "tormented day and night forever and ever".

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Debated Bible Sources:

The Book of Enoch, chapter XX, verse 2 specifically states that Tartarus is the place in which the angels who cohabited with women in Genesis 6 are to be reserved for judgment.

[size=13pt]"Haides" refers to the temporary abode of the dead before the resurrection and ascension of the Lord Jesus.[/size]

The part reserved for the wicked dead, called "haides" (Luke 26:23), [the self-same name]

the other for the righteous dead, called Abraham's bosom (Luke 16:22), paradise (Luke 23:24), haides (Acts 2:27, 31);

[size=13pt]Since after the ressurection of Christ, Hades refers to the temporary abode of the wicked dead from those events until the Great White Throne judgement, and the righteous dead going at once to be with the Lord (Phil. 1:23; II Cor. 5:8 ).[/size]

The word "haides" is from the Greek stem "id" which means "to see," and the Greek letter "Alpha" prefixed which makes the composite word mean "not to see," the noun meaning "the unseen." The word itself in its noun form refers to the unseen world made up of all moral intelligence's not possessing a physical body.

These would include the holy angels, the fallen angels, the demons, the wicked dead, and the righteous dead. As to the inhabitants in the unseen world, the holy angels are in heaven, the fallen angels in Tartarus (a kind of prison, to be examined in more detail after this post), the wicked dead in Hades, the righteous dead in heaven (since Christ), and the demons in the atmosphere of the earth and in the bottomless pit. All these are included in the unseen world.

The context should decide as to whether the Greek word "haides" should be transliterated or translated.

Where the context deals with departed human beings and their place of abode in the unseen world, it would seem that the word should be transliterated, and the specific name "Hades" be given that place. These places are Matthew 11:23; Luke 10:15, 16:23; Acts 2:27, 31; Revelation 6:8, 20:13, 14.

Where the context refers to the unseen world as a whole, the word should be translated, as for instance: Matthew 16:18, "the gates (councils) of the Unseen," namely, the councils of Satan in the unseen world, shall not prevail against the church; or Revelation 1:18, "I have the keys of the Unseen and of death." Our Lord controls the entire unseen world.

Now we will summarily examine the three places again:

[size=13pt]"Geenna" refers to the final abode of the wicked dead, called The Lake of Fire in The Revelation (20:14, 15). Where this word occurs, the translation should be 'hell.'[/size]

It is found in Matthew 5:22, 22, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; James 5:6.

The third translated "hell" is in II Peter 2:4 where the Greek word is "Tartarus"

Tartarus is the prison of the fallen angels that sinned at the time of the flood (Gen. 6:1-4; I Peter 3:19, 20; Jude 6).

[size=13pt]
These three Greek words, each referring to a different place, all of which are translated by the one word HELL, a fact that causes considerable confusion in interpreting the passages where they occur.[/size]

These words are 'gennna, haides, and tartaroo.' The first comes into English in the word "Gehenna", the second, in the word "hades," and the third, in the word "Tartarus."

There are just two places where this Greek word (Hades) should be translated rather than transliterated.

1. In Revelation 1:18, our Lord has the keys or control of The Unseen and of death. That is, He is master of the unseen world which in the Christian system includes Hades, Tartarus, and the kingdom of Satan in the atmosphere of this earth.

2. The other place is Matthew 16:18 where we translate "The Unseen." The word "prevail" in the Greek means "to be strong to another's detriment, to overpower." The word "gates" is an orientalism for the idea of centralized legal authority. Lot sat in the gate of Sodom. Boaz went to the gate of Bethlehem to settle a legal matter with reference to his proposed marriage to Ruth. The word refers to a council. The word "hades" is out of the question here as an adequate translation, because the wicked dead in that place have no power to overcome the Church, and the righteous dead there at the time our Lord spoke these words had neither the desire nor power. The holy angels in heaven would have no such desire. All that is left in the unseen world are Satan and his demons. These constitute the Council in the Unseen that desires to bring about the destruction of the Church.