₦airaland Forum

@Pastor AIO: Haba! Abeg o!! Please don't go down that path. I am an inquisitive person, and I know how to gather information about people using the web's deep search engines (people search engines) and so on. e.g. if you knew my real name (I know viaro's real name), you will find out many things about me if you are registered with deep searches.

Thanks for the encouragement, but I know nothing about pilgrim.

@tpia: I am a Christian.

@KunleOshob: You don't need to get wild about this.

How can you confirm that? If you could deceive everybody so effectively on this forum including those you communicated with outside Nl

Tell me, who did I deceive? I never set out to deceive anyone, and I made it clear on the "Trial of Viaro" thread that the posts are far more important than the poster, on a forum like this. Whoever got deceived was concentrating on the person rather than the posts, and Im sorry if that happened because it wasn't my intention. Privacy was my intention.

As for those I communicated with outside NL, Deep Sight is here on this thread, and Krayola may join soon. You can ask Deep Sight if I deceived him at all about my gender. I just rather ignored any statements about it, or evaded it. I NEVER told him anything to insinuate my gender, we had conversations while playing chess but I NEVER deceived him. Here he is on the thread, ask him.

Your pre-occupation with viaro being pilgrim is not my business, so I have nothing to say on that.

KunleOshob, thanks for your comment. If calling me a transvestite makes you feel better, go ahead and say it.

As for viaro, I will confirm his gender as male, but you may say whatever you want about that. However I have undeniable evidence that he is male.

Deep Sight, indeed there was guilt. I realized that the gender misrepresentation is considerably a lie. Not placing any gender would have been better, IMO.

As for all the other things I said, you have a right to believe them or not. I wish you all the best.

Edit: When I say I am not bothered, what I mean is that the guilt is past, and not that it never existed.

Thanks Ogaga. But I'm really not bothered, I only decided to login to NL again and set things straight. I am more concerned with doing the right thing here, than pleasing anyone.

Thanks Davidylan. But then, if it were possible to make a post and exclude people, I would obviously have excluded you and some others 'cos I never expected you and others like you to understand, or anything.

When I speak about a release in my spirit, what I mean, as you well know but are deliberately ignoring, is the fact that I know it was the right thing to do, and I went ahead and did it.

And that's what it means to be a Son: be ready to make amends for wrong, no matter what anyone says, thinks or does.

Good luck getting a cat, if you like them so much.

Abuzola, na you get your mouth. As far as social networking privacy is concerned, I did nothing wrong by concealing my gender. Deal with it.

@Deep Sight: Apologies. My apologies.

@Ogaga: Thanks, and best regards.

davidylan:
lol its just a little weird, this thread is chockfull of your own assumed self-importance.

Whatever, davidylan. What is important here is my confession and the release I have in my spirit about the matter, and you can take it or leave it.

My assumed self-importance? I don't know what to say to you, Davidylan, but Im sure you know that phrase was uncalled for.

And so I wonder what you are doing on the thread: the title was enough of a Caveat Emptor to keep those who are not bothered out of the thread. I am apologizing to those to whom it mattered, and they know themselves.

davidylan:
all due respects but why would this "shock" anyone?

Davidylan, you are not one of those I communicated with extensively, and outside NL, so I don't expect you to be shocked or anything. Cheers.

Post redacted with apologies.

Deep Sight, the truth is that spiritual things can never be explained away with physical terms.

The set theory was an analogy, by way of speaking: the physically dead men (Hades' folk) now made spiritually alive beings (Heavenly folk), thus the intersection. I told you not to think location but to think outside the words.

See, You have caused enough confusion on this thread, but think about it: if I am wrong, is Wikipedia wrong as well? If you are sure I am wrong, why not enquire from a respected theologian? Im sure Krayola can furnish you with some professor's contacts so I can have some peace.

I have really tried my best addressing my spiritual views, and this Nairaland is taking too much of my precious time. I would hate to believe I have been wasting my time on this argument.

Anyone who wants to understand anything I have said or been saying on Nairaland, by now already does. Cheers and enjoy Nairaland, whats left of it and what it becomes.

@Nuclearboy, my warm regards.

Ilosiwaju, Jesus being a son of David is not literal and ancestral. It is symbolic, a figurative expression of his spiritual messiahship. You need to understand Jewish tradition and prophecy to unlock that.

G1, i thot u said you were not a troublemaker? I would usually not enter a thread like this, but i thought you were talking about Mary sister of Lazarus and Martha, who by gospel inference was a prostitute before she changed when she wept at Christ's feet (John 12:3 in light of Matt 26:7, Mark 14:3, Luke 7:37). But you were not bothered about that Mary, rather, you were stirring the hornet's nest. I am disappointed. Not like I expect you to care anyway.

viaro haba no carry vex o. Na play him dey play. Or would you have preferred a nuclear warhead from the gentleman aimed at your base?

Deep Sight, why is your judgment so biased? Is this how you practise law? Cant you see that there is a difference between understanding someones view on a matter, and understanding the English that the person spoke? I told justcool that I am a Son of God and he replies that he never said he is a Son of God. And I retorted that he misunderstood me, only for you to jump in and blame the misunderstanding on what I believe in and how I express it. Is that correct judgment? And by the way, since Olabowale and Abuzola and myself fell out on a thread in the Muslim section few days after I joined NL, i have stopped discussing other people's beliefs, as long as they are not wrapping them around my God and His Word. That is disinformation, geared to deform and not inform, and I will always endeavour to say my bit. As for you, Deep Sight, your OOI theory looked interesting cos I love Maths. When I saw you murdering Maths, i spoke up. When it showed strife, i retreated. The thread has not come alive since.

@Ilosiwaju: Dont hold your breath! If at all I will say it, its not anytime soon.

@Abuzola: I have nothing against you, man. I cant keep grudges, and when I see that I always have trouble with some1, I simply stay out of their paths. Im often a pacifist, except at chess.

@Viaro: You know you're undeniably my pal, right? I honestly didnt mean it that way: Im not better because both parents of mine are from 9ja. I was only trying to outline points to show our variance. Maybe a better point would have been: I dont even know how Viaro looks, cos we have never met. Ma binu, Okoo Iya mi .

@Nuclearboy: shey you see the wahala resulting from your idea that I am Viaro? ehn? E ma ko igbo si mi lapo o. as for the complexity of my posts, trust me its not deliberate.

@Deep Sight: your question is troublesome. Think. When the Greeks mentioned Hades, what were the extents? As far as the Greeks understood, besides Heaven where God and angels are, and the physical planes where man is, and Tartarus where imprisoned angels were, and Gehenna: that final furious hellfire to consume all evil, all other realms were lumped as Hades (Hebrew Sheol) and included the devil's unseen military bases to influence the physical, included the receptacle of good &evil dead men's souls, and also other realms above the physical. Do you understand set theory, sir? Then picture what I said on a Venn diagram to understand better. Heaven is not part of Hades, but Hades has intersected with heaven since Christ rose. The intersection is what was called paradise. Stop thinking in LOCATIONS using words. Think INFLUENCES of spiritual aspects and understand the limitation of the human languages in expressing spiritual truths!

Maven said:

viaro, thats the problem I often have with seeklove and his mentor justcool (i.e. If they are not even the same person!), they impose various limitations on their god, and then turn around and say that is the one and same Boundless God that adopted me as His Son. I only have problems with the 2nd part, I am not bothered about whoever other people worship.

Justcool replied:

@Mavenbox
I never said in any part of my post in the Nairaland that God adopted me as his son. I can speak for myself, I don't know if seeklove ever said that. You are free to believe whatever you want to believe about seeklove and me being the same person. I can see that you are bent on starting a fight with me; therefore I withdraw from this thread.

May God bless you.

Cheese! I never said you said that God adopted you as His son. I said

the one and same Boundless God that adopted [size=18pt]me[/size] as His Son

I, Maven, am a Son of God (Son being irrespective of gender, there is no "spiritual gender". And I never said seeklove said that either! I don't think you read what I wrote carefully, mister. Why I am so often misunderstood on NL?

About seeklove and you being the same person, I sincerely am not bothered! I have said here on NL that the important thing is to rub minds together. If I am rubbing minds and exchanging ideas with 1 person on a thread, and the person is using 5 user-names in turn on that same thread, I don't mind. The important thing is to see that the information is adequately transferred. I am here to exchange knowledge, not to witch-hunt. Sometimes my curiosity gets the better of me, and I want to know who is behind the mask. But most times I am not bothered.

I was not bent on starting a fight with you, I was only sorely displeased. Have a great weekend, Justcool.

Nuclearboy! LOL. . . My very own guy. . .How body?

Okay here are my confessions (except one):
1. Viaro is not the same person as Mavenbox, and yes, there have been times when we did not agree on my "contemplations" here on Nairaland.
2. Viaro and Mavenbox have been communicating outside Nairaland in the last few days: this is responsible for whatever you noticed
3. Viaro and Mavenbox are not in any "relationship" of any kind, save an "Iron sharpens iron" kind.
4. I use "big words" in communication as well, but only whenever I am really angry. I don't (I almost never) use expletives, so when I'm really upset I just snatch some really "big but relatively harmless words" from my the back-library of my mind, and I hurl them at whoever I am talking to.
5. I accused Viaro of being Krayola some 8 weeks back but I have communicated with both of them outside NL and I assure you with certainty that they are not the same person.
6. I am a full Nigerian, Viaro is not. I speak some poor pidgin, but I think I am still better than Viaro in that respect.
7. Besides, you don't know this, but. . .[this is the part that has been removed. LOL.]

viaro, thats the problem I often have with seeklove and his mentor justcool (i.e. If they are not even the same person!), they impose various limitations on their god, and then turn around and say that is the one and same Boundless God that adopted me as His Son. I only have problems with the 2nd part, I am not bothered about whoever other people worship.

Deepsight, i can not strike away what was never there.

Justcool, anybody can blog on any site and say anything they want. We need reputable, scholarly references from respectable academicians about the rulings. Talking about what a medium said is not acceptable cos it is non-evidence based. As my friend mazaje loves to ask, where is the evidence? I dont demand physical evidence for spiritual matters but when it is  historical, you better show me the evidence cos God does not talk with both sides of His mouth.

Viaro, i recall some exotic food I ate some days back when I was invited to visit an Indian family. No disrespect meant, but that night I couldnt sleep. I think I saw a number of alimentary spirits that night rising from the depths of gastric indigestion! So I dont think the John guy was a big deal. Lol.

Deep Sight:
Slap from me? Come on now. I have told you several times that I like being spanked by women, and not the other way round.

Amazing the somersaults of these Christians. In another thread you insisted that Elijah never went to heaven. Do not bother to deny it or I will go fetch the quote. You were at pains to make a distinction between the Hebrew words for “sky” and “heaven”. You insisted that Elijah only went to the “sky” (to do what I wonder amongst the clouds? ? ?)

Now your mentor Viaro comes along and states clearly that Elijah went to the [b]spiritual heavens with his physical body, and you somersault and fall into line with this![/b]

Amazing, these guys!

My lunch is getting cold.

What is Deep Sight saying now? Did I not accept correction on that thread that although it is not stated that Elijah did enter into God's very presence, he was not in the sky, but he was in heaven? And did I not assert that although I said SKY, it was not the atmospheric sky where clouds hang out but the outward-and-beyond skies?

How many heavens are there, would you care to enlighten us, Deep Sight. Of course you do not know. You don't even know how many planets there are, so how can you tell?

I told you countless times: heaven is not a physical, geographic place. What is heaven? Twiddle your thumbs more, mister!

^^^ LOL. Yeah. I agree with you on that!!

Thanks, Modupe01. God bless you!

Deep Sight:
Hmm Maven. That Chess game is becoming embarrasing for me again. Why are you so merciless?

LOL I am sorry, but I already told you that I am a quite strong chess player, and I have even played at some tournaments. But you doubted me. You should see how my ratings at chess.com have kept climbing and I have not lost ONE match even though I am playing people many times stronger than my current rating. If I had some more time on my hands, I will play online at chess.com tournaments as well.

Why not just resign and save yourself the embarrassment, that would be 2:0.

Deep Sight:
No, regrettably they are not: and i will return to address them. I am off for lunch now.

Cheerio!

Enjoy.

@Krayola: Do you know that, thanks to all the disinformation here, I was starting to think that bu.ll$hit about reincarnation being voted off was academically and historically true? Thanks for telling the truth. Now I know I really need to dig deeper into historical events surrounding early Christianity. I told you I have a "little and aside degree" in Bible school beside my Engineering Degrees, very true, but it was taught from an entirely Christian perspective. I would like to see more of pure, uncorrupted, conspiracy-free facts about Judaistic views, Hellenistic views and Early Christian perspectives, so I can compare with what I already know and gain more insight.

P.S> Hey! What happened to the religious non-bull$hit stuff you were meant to send me? I am still mulling over it all but you decided to hold back the rest! Oya make it sharp sharp, my guy Please. Thanks.

@Justcool: Please oblige Krayola and myself with the historical information on reincarnation, the council of Nicea and the "voting off" process. We're waiting. Thanks.

Deep Sight: I will speak clearly and concisely, since it is apparent that you glossed over what I said earlier. And leave seeklove out of this. Thanks.

It is a mockery of both commonsense and evidential reasoning to suggest that the Tree of Life – the very bastion of all life - is actually resident in the place of death.

1. I never said that Hades is the place of the dead. I said it is the Unseen Place. The dead are just a part of the Unseen, but that's not all there is to it.

I have said it too many times that languages evolve, and God can only speak to a man by the man's limitation of language.

In the Hebrew, the WORD that they had for Sheol, and the WORDS that the Greeks already had for Gehenna, Tartarus and Hades - those words never confused them because they made an instant connection with an eternal truth using the language they understand; but they may seem to "get in the way" of the meanings for those of you that are neither Hebrew nor Greek, and are limited by a weak language like English. Even a number of other European languages make fun of English's weakness.

As Imhotep (on NL) once said, when you shake a message vigorously until all the WORDS drop off, then what you have left is the essence, the truth of the message.

But here, you are harping over some translation weakness of the English language that neither Christianity nor myself can be blamed for. Let me give you an illustration: LOVE is a single word in English, but there are many words for Love in Greek i.e. love for your family member, sensual love for a partner / mate / prospective mate, God's love towards man, etc. I am sure you will agree that it is senseless to say that the same word for sexu'al love should be the same word for God's divine love for us, but that is how weak the English language is.

Does it make sense, Deep Sight, to shallow-sightedly continue discussing the English word translated hell when you have a concordance in your own bedroom (as you have asserted) and you can check to see what the scriptures meant until they were translated into the weak English? Isn't that intellectually dishonest of you if you have such resources and you keep harping on this matter? It appears you do not like to "lose" an argument but some things in life are not only about yourself winning and losing.

2. DeepSight said:

Maven is being clever by half in attempting to subtly alter the meaning of the word Hades. If she will stick with her insistence that Hades refers to the unseen, then we must per force conclude that Heaven itself is in Hades – since heaven is an absolutely unseen realm.

We must also go further to declare that God himself dwells in Hades – as He is resident in an unseen realm.

Oh dear – God used to be in Heaven, but since Heaven is unseen, he has now relocated to Hades!

Beware guys all the relocation going on! ! !

And on and on about names. Tell me, what is the REAL name of this planet, in God's heart? What does He call it in the spiritual language? Is it Earth or is it Terra, or is it a name that cannot be pronounced? What is it exactly? Do you see how fallacious it is to consider everything from a purely human perspective? Words are only pointers to a place of truth, they are not the truth in themselves. Whether the Greeks accurately named the place of the Unseen as Hades, or whether they got the name wrong, is not a matter of my concern. I read Hades, and I understand what they are talking about. That's what names are for, they're for the sake of communication. English garbled the words by using one word for three different places.

If you will be honest with yourself, you will agree that "Hades" (I am using words here, so when I say Hades, I mean the actual place that the Greeks described as Hades, the realm of the Unseen) is a creation of God, as well as Heaven is.

Ask yourself, what is an Unseen realm? The Unseen Realm for the Greeks and Hebrews referred to the intangible spiritual place.

Let's see what David says

Psalm 139:8: "If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there."

So is God IN Sheol, Deep Sight?

I do not know about the nature of your OOI god, but my God is omnipresent. Heaven is not a location where He is, rather the atmospehere where he manifests his presence is called Heaven.

And I don't know what you are harping on about relocation. It's a spiritual concept of relocation, by virtue of its spiritual value, and not a physical relocation.

I hope my points are clearer.

@m_nwankwo: Thanks for the clarification. I didn't know that whatever a Grail Message adherent says is not necessarily a pointer to the Grail Message. I was thinking like a Christian, we believe that we drink from the same waters. Have a great day.

cocoman4u, seeing that you cant provide evidence for seeklove not to have his UCLA degree revoked, you have resorted to confusion. I have clearly shown the word translated Hades, it is not Hell. But you have brought us back there again.Thanks for the mixup, stop and get your reward from Abuzola. By the way, Im not one to swallow stuff from any pastor. I hold my own when I have a concordance, bible, the Holy spirit, my spirit and my brain.

True seeker, I already described what the words mentioned as hell, meant in Hebrew and Greek. Stop for 30 minutes, stop thinking in the weak language called English, forget your notions of hell and just read the first page of the thread. Read the words as either Gehenna, Sheol / Hades and Tartarus. Dont read HELL anywhere. Then im sure you will understand. Blame English language that set ONE word to define 3 diverse spiritual entities.

Ilosiwaju, my apologies for the heated gist above. Have a great day!

[post redacted]

seeklove, why are you hunting me everywhere on NL? Were you sent by some entities to snoop on me or to stalk me?

Why not let m_nwankwo speak for himself? I have known him to be intelligent enough to understand me, even without many words. Here, I SAID that I wasn't exactly quoting so he needed to understand what I was trying to remind him. This is what he said:

Yes the Grail Message teaches reincarnation but it did not infer it from the biblical reference you cited above.

which was why I said

[size=13pt]It[/size] is the 3rd to the last paragraph of the document attached in the OP (I downloaded it to check). And yet you insisted that [size=13pt]it's[/size] not taught by Grail Message Adherents?

And you are here yapping that

m_nwankwo never said that reincarnation is not taught by Grail Message adherents.

Who said he said so? Ever considered writing a book "How to jump to conclusions"

The IT [/b]in the quote does not refer to reincarnation, it refers to the biblical reference of "going out". AND M_NWANKWO said the particular Biblical reference was not used to infer reincarnation.

So, it's you that is jumping [b]mouth-first as usual into something that is none of your business. Will you please scamper off?

Please lets try not misrepresent people and lets try to understand people's posts before we attribute things to them.

YOU should begin by understanding people's posts before responding, since you have jusst scored an own goal now because of your impatience to read what I said. Let me tell you a secret: here on Nairaland, most of the people I have learnt a great deal from (except a couple of Christians) are non-Christians: atheists, agnostics, Grail Message folk, even a Muslim and a Catholic. I don't read any post with pre-established prejudice. It's like whenever you see some names you prepare to find faults in what they say. That's just wrong. And yes, I have observed you doing that with one of my best friends here on NL so you can't deny it.

For the record, I will keep saying it: I don't talk THE SAME WAY to everyone on Nairaland. To make some people understand me, I have to talk and talk and talk, while for others a simple hint gets my message across. Stop running into my conversations and speaking for other people when you don't know why I am talking the way I am talking to them. My question was not directed at you. Away with you.

@seeklove: So you misrepresented God? Can a human being misrepresent God? Do you even know what you are talking about? If you know what it means to represent God, you will understand that you cannot misrepresent God.

You're such a jackass. I lied? Did I quote the post or I was recalling what I said offhand? Why would you then say I lied and changed my post? You'd better watch what you say!

Considering the text in blue below, it is clear that you either lack comprehensive skills, or you just chose to attack my post and twist it out of whack.

@Justcool: I read your reply, but I maintain my views. [size=14pt]Conception involves the fertilization of an egg by at least one spermatozoon[/size]. With the science of fertilization today, if a lab tech can cause fertilization with no humans present, why cant God do it by causing Mary to produce a self-fertilized egg? Or do you know the exact dynamics by which ova are created, since science does not yet know 4 sure? I dont buy that Grail gist. Cheers.

You still don't get the fertilization bit, right? Does the spermatozoa donor and the egg donor have to be there in copulation before the fertilization occurs in the laboratory? That is what I meant by Human beings PRESENT. Or what part of "the human beings need not be present" don't you understand? DId I say that eggs and sperms need not be present? That's arrant nonsense. I said, and this time I quote (emphasis added in bold letters):

Seeklove, you need to read me properly and understand my perspective before responding, maybe next time. I never said spermatozoa was not needed for fertilization, my point is Can the creator of the spermatozoa not skip that step and bring about a pre-fertilized egg? the same way i am the creator of my words and i can say two statements crafted in two different ways YET yield the same meaning? So why can the Creator not bring about a pre-fertilized egg? Have you ever heard of scientific anomalies in nature?

And when I said with no humans present, my point was that the spermatozoa giver and the ovum donor do not have 2b there, and yet the baby is produced. Thus, they have skipped the s.ex stage. So if MAN can skip the s.ex stage and still get the baby made, how do you know that God cannot create ONE ase.xual OVUM to divide and bear his Son?

. . . .

and you replied, (I have edited matters irrelevant to this discussion, from the post)

. . . .
The only way a woman can get pregnant without intimacy is through invitro fertilization, any other way will invlove changing the laws of nature. A spermatozoa must meet and egg, this is how nature made it for humans. I am sure that the case of Mary was not invitro, it hasnt been invented yet and God does not do invitro.
And the bible, christians and molesems never said that mary got pregenent by a spermatozoa, even if the father was not present like you claim. They simply say that mary got pregnant without fertilization, ie the holy spirit came upon her and she concieved, others say it was angel Gabrail that impreganated her. Whether it was the holy spirit or angel Gabrail, the bottom line is that no physical spermatozoa was involved. So the laws of nature was overided by God.

How much sense do your deductions make with respect to the simple statement I made that God who causes ova to appear in a reproductive system, can make a pre-fertilized one appear, or can simply MAKE it fertilized by his own divine instruction. Whether a spermatozoon appeared or not is not my business, what is evident to me is that THERE WAS A FERTILIZATION, and it was not natural. It was formally contrived by God.

And if you claim that God can do anything, why did Jesus have to be born at all. Why didnt he come from heaven as a grown man. Why did he start like a baby just like other natural babies, why did he grow just like others, why did he hunger, thirst, and got tired just like others. How come in other areas He obayed the laws of nature like everybody but when it comes to His birth, God changes the laws of nature?

I dont beleive in that crap of fertilization without intimacy, being born of a god is ancient roman, babylonian and greek myth which somehow got incoporated into christianity and somhow found its way into the bible. Please tell me why the bible traces Jesus genealogy through Jeseph. Not that I am saying that Joseph is His biological father for sure, but I am sure that He had a biological father. God does not play magic, why would God send His son the same way that the anceint babylonians belive that thier god was sent.

And the parts in purple are the reason why I am certain you are not a Christian, you can claim to be anything else and it will not be argued with you.
Stop staining our integrity by spreading falsehood and pretending to associate with us. Judas did that and we know what became of him.

See, you are making this thread deviate from its purpose. This is my last response to you on this thread. You can scratch your hairy forehead, beat your hairy chest, and keep making posts if you so desire.

@m_nwankwo: Do you remember our recent conversation about "they shall go out no more?" in Revelations? I can't recall the date and I dont want to start searching my posts but I guess you should recall it. Here it is, again, now. It is the 3rd to the last paragraph of the document attached in the OP (I downloaded it to check). And yet you insisted that it's not taught by Grail Message Adherents?