₦airaland Forum

^^^ I have three elder brothers: I kinda have a good understanding of guys!

@Viaro: LOL thanks! My personal favourites in descending order are #7 and #5 and then #8 (LOL!)

@fellabrims: God bless you too! But I didnt write it, I just picked it off Pastor Joshua Harris' blog at http://www.joshharris.com/2007/02/feeding_the_flesh.php

Wow!!! Viaro, Imhotep and Pastor AIO on my thread?!! All I need now is for Deep Sight, M_Nwankwo and Krayola to join as well! LOL. Please go ahead and "derail" if necessary (I will simply restore the thought-flow when you are done), you guys are always a bundle of knowledge!

P.S> What you have here is so deep, I will need to take time to ingest it all! Busy, be right back.

Hand-coding or Dreamweaving? Legally speaking one option is free and the other one, you either use pyrated software or you pay through your nose.

Okay, seriously, it depends on your level of skill. And DW can tend to "spoil" you, as Dual Core has correctly asserted.

9. Starve our flesh!
That's what we want our flesh to look like. We want the flesh gaunt and feeble.

When Paul says "make no provision for the flesh" he's saying don't feed your sinful desires. Don't do things—don't think things, don't watch things, don't meditate on things—;that strengthen your sinful inclinations.

Romans 13:14 "But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires."

That's why Paul is telling us in Romans 13 that we need to,

8. But there's a real problem. When we feed the flesh, it grows! And before you know it, the flesh is bigger and stronger than you and starts to push you around.

7. The problem is that too often Christians make friends with their flesh. In fact they feed their flesh. We give into our sinful desires. We pamper our flesh. We provide it three rounded meals a day with snacks and dessert. We might think that since we've been freed by the cross it's okay to indulge the flesh.

6. That's why the Bible is full of encouragement to fight our fleshly desires. We can't live at peace with it. We have to attack it and deny it. (In hindsight, I guess the "sword of the Spirit" would have been a bit more biblical. Oh well.)

5. But our flesh doesn't disappear. It still hangs around to entice us. After we're Christians, we're no longer slaves to sin, but the flesh can still tempt us. We can choose to give into temptation and indulge the flesh. This is what theologians call "indwelling sin." Jesus broke the power of sin, but we still live with the presence and influence of sinful desires.

4. This is what happens when we trust in Jesus. Because Jesus died on the cross and conquered sin and rose again, we are freed from the power of sin. It's no longer our boss. See how the chain is broken? And we get clothes, which is really great.

3. Before Jesus saves us, this is how all of us relate to the flesh. The Bible says that we are slaves to our sinful desires. Our flesh is boss. If you're not a Christian, I'm not trying to offend you. I know this isn't a flattering picture of your current condition but it's true of all of us apart from God saving us.

2. This is the flesh. He's kind of a Jabba the Hut meets WWF wrestler. The Flesh represents the sinful, corrupted desires of our heart. It's not a reference to our bodies—our bodies are created by God and are good. The flesh represents our sinful cravings to live for ourselves and disobey God's laws and commands.

From http://www.joshharris.com/2007/02/feeding_the_flesh.php

1. This is you. Or us, a human made in God's image. Ladies, sorry you have to identify with a little guy. I'm not sure why he doesn't have a shirt. 

@OP: If indeed you find a perfect man, what then will be your role in his life?  If you find a 70% guy, the rest of the 30% will come from you and that's why relationships are like a business deal. The guy who is 100% to you, if he exists, will never take you cos he doesn't need you (unless you are also 100% to him? That's like at least one chance in 10,000) 

Thanks Viaro!

Yes I was wrong with that, I concluded that there is only one definition of faith because there is only one faith. Thanks for weighing in!

Thread resurrected! After a whole month!! Hahaha. I needed some humour and this thread did it for me again. Thanks, JeSoul

bee444, sorry I never saw it like a one-man show thing. This is a discussion board, and I thought everyone was free to express their opinions to whatever extent is necessary to make themselves clear. I wasn't posting for you, but for posterity (no pun intended). If you really read the posts, all the questions in your last post have been answered.

best regards

Another abandoned thread. I hope now Ancel realizes why I'm often reluctant to start threads: posting takes too much of my time (I type slowly) and energy

^^^ LMAO Davidylan I love your last response!!!

imhotep:
@Mavenb0x
. . .we are still waiting for you to WRITE DOWN the fragrance of your perfume. . .  perhaps even post this fragrance in a new thread so that we can all percieve it  on this website. . .

LOL don't be naughty, imhotep! I can do the description for you, but how would you appreciate it? oh no you won't. You will enjoy the words and lose the essence

Here is the entire chapter, from the AMPLIFIED version, for you and anyone else who also wants to read it in perspective of the crucifixion. {I quote the AMPLIFIED because it uses the original Greek and Hebrew texts to unlock subtle meanings, and also includes cross-references.}

Please read with a very open mind, seeing that it was a prophecy and not all the details were fully expressed. For instance, Psa 22:31 in many versions end with "he has done it", but Jesus ends with "it is finished". Considering translation gaps from Hebrew to Aramaic to Greek, I think it is acceptable. Such gaps are adequately covered in the AMPLIFIED, but you can compare with the KJV or another, as well.

Psa 22:1 To the Chief Musician; set to [the tune of] Aijeleth Hashshahar [the hind of the morning dawn]. A Psalm of David.
MY GOD, my God, why have You forsaken me? Why are You so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning? [Matt. 27:46.]
Psa 22:2 O my God, I cry in the daytime, but You answer not; and by night I am not silent or find no rest.
Psa 22:3 But You are holy, O You Who dwell in [the holy place where] the praises of Israel [are offered].
Psa 22:4 Our fathers trusted in You; they trusted (leaned on, relied on You, and were confident) and You delivered them.
Psa 22:5 They cried to You and were delivered; they trusted in, leaned on, and confidently relied on You, and were not ashamed or confounded or disappointed.
Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; I am the scorn of men, and despised by the people. [Matt. 27:39-44.]
Psa 22:7 All who see me laugh at me and mock me; they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, [Matt. 27:43.]
Psa 22:8 He trusted and rolled himself on the Lord, that He would deliver him. Let Him deliver him, seeing that He delights in him! [Matt. 27:39, 43; Mark 15:29, 30; Luke 23:35.]
Psa 22:9 Yet You are He Who took me out of the womb; You made me hope and trust when I was on my mother's bosoms.
Psa 22:10 I was cast upon You from my very birth; from my mother's womb You have been my God.
Psa 22:11 Be not far from me, for trouble is near and there is none to help.
Psa 22:12 Many [foes like] bulls have surrounded me; strong bulls of Bashan have hedged me in. [Ezek. 39:18.]
Psa 22:13 Against me they opened their mouths wide, like a ravening and roaring lion.
Psa 22:14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart is like wax; it is softened [with anguish] and melted down within me.
Psa 22:15 My strength is dried up like a fragment of clay pottery; [with thirst] my tongue cleaves to my jaws; and You have brought me into the dust of death. [John 19:28.]
Psa 22:16 For [like a pack of] dogs they have encompassed me; a company of evildoers has encircled me, they pierced my hands and my feet. [Isa. 53:7; John 19:37.]
Psa 22:17 I can count all my bones; [the evildoers] gaze at me. [Luke 23:27, 35.]
Psa 22:18 They part my clothing among them and cast lots for my raiment (a long, shirtlike garment, a seamless undertunic). [John 19:23, 24.])
Psa 22:19 But be not far from me, O Lord; O my Help, hasten to aid me!
Psa 22:20 Deliver my life from the sword, my dear life [my only one] from the power of the dog [the agent of execution].
Psa 22:21 Save me from the lion's mouth; for You have answered me [kindly] from the horns of the wild oxen.
Psa 22:22 I will declare Your name to my brethren; in the midst of the congregation will I praise You. [John 20:17; Rom. 8:29; Heb. 2:12.]
Psa 22:23 You who fear (revere and worship) the Lord, praise Him! All you offspring of Jacob, glorify Him. Fear (revere and worship) Him, all you offspring of Israel.
Psa 22:24 For He has not despised or abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither has He hidden His face from him, but when he cried to Him, He heard.
Psa 22:25 My praise shall be of You in the great congregation. I will pay to Him my vows [made in the time of trouble] before them who fear (revere and worship) Him.
Psa 22:26 The poor and afflicted shall eat and be satisfied; they shall praise the Lord--they who [diligently] seek for, inquire of and for Him, and require Him [as their greatest need]. May your hearts be quickened now and forever!
Psa 22:27 All the ends of the earth shall remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations shall bow down and worship before You,
Psa 22:28 For the kingship and the kingdom are the Lord's, and He is the ruler over the nations.
Psa 22:29 All the mighty ones upon earth shall eat [in thanksgiving] and worship; all they that go down to the dust shall bow before Him, even he who cannot keep himself alive.
Psa 22:30 Posterity shall serve Him; they shall tell of the Lord to the next generation.
Psa 22:31 They shall come and shall declare His righteousness to a people yet to be born--that He has done it [that it is finished]! [John 19:30.]

Sincerely, I think the entire problem surfaces whenever we try splitting hairs between Jesus and The Father, when he has clearly said that "I and the Father are ONE" (John, at 10:30pm ) for which the Jews attempted to stone him, saying he thus made himself God. In this narrow road of understanding HOW God could be in Heaven and yet be manifest in the flesh, a weary traveller without the help of the Holy Spirit can fall into error and heresy.

Question:

To whom was Jesus praying in Gethsemane? To who did he cry "Eli Eli, La ma sabathacni?" Doubtless to the father. In Gethsemane he makes the crucial statement - "Nevertheless not as i will, but as thou wilt" - making it clear that the Father had a different mind, will and selfconsciousness, because if he were the father himself, that prayer would be moot and paradoxical.

This attempt to re-enact God's role in Jesus as a movie director acting his own script is, I think, the farthest analogy I can go on with. If I use a simpler analogy, I will severely weaken the very idea of Divinity.

What makes this whole topic so complex is the fact that God put aside his divinity and participated in the flesh as a man. In that man-form, his true nature has not been compromised, but in his fairness and justice, he will act as a man. Nature and spirits will recognize him (e.g. Matthew 8:27, 8:29 etc.) and they will bow, they know their creator even though he wears a mask. But man? No, man will not believe. For the fact that he came in a form like he is, man in his pride will think he's one of them, and they would kill him. But he knew that already.

I will try to be brief.

Really strange then that he wrote the script and also wrote a part in the script where he would address himself begging himself to change the script.

As I said earlier, Jesus was not "begging", it was necessary for him to do that for two reasons:
1. To show the disciples how to handle such situations whenever it arises in their own lives (that was why he asked them to come with him)
2. God will not cheat, and he will never perform at a sub-standard level. So if he cast himself into a script as a man, the man will be expected to fulfill the roles that are required of any such man in that role. That is what it means to be a good actor. Permit the analogy.

IF CHRIST WERE GOD, HE WOULD KNOW VERY WELL EXACTLY WHAT EFFECTS HIS CARRYING SIN WOULD HAVE ON THE GODHEAD -

Accordingly he would not despair that "God had forsaken him. . ." He would know fully well all the divine computations of what was going on. . .

God in His omniscience knew what He had to do in the form of Christ. It was never for once lost on him. Why else would he rebuke Peter when he tried to convince him otherwise, and call him the devil?
1. The very reason Christ cried out this way was because Jesus was quoting from Psalm 22 which would have been immediately recognized by those within earshot, and today by those who know the Psalms. It follows the classic pattern of the Todah Psalms – suffering followed by deliverance. Jesus the Messiah, Son of David, draws attention to this psalm not only because it is a prophecy of his crucifixion, but because he can very confidently give thanks knowing it’s purpose. Raising his voice, he began reciting the Psalms, starting with, and ending with, the two verses below:

Psa 22:1 To the Chief Musician; set to [the tune of] Aijeleth Hashshahar [the hind of the morning dawn]. A Psalm of David. MY GOD, my God, why have You forsaken me? Why are You so far from helping me, and from the words of my groaning? [Matt. 27:46.]
--------------------------------please read the rest, twould make my post too long---------------
Psa 22:31 They shall come and shall declare His righteousness to a people yet to be born--that He has done it [that it is finished]! [John 19:30.]

NOTE the beginning and the end were the words recorded in the gospels. Why is that? In a form of symbolism, the gospel writers recorded only the beginning and the end of Christ's words as he hung on the cross, struggling to say the words (due to asphyxiation by virtue of the cross). I believe he said the whole psalm, because when you read it you get an exact description of what happened at the cross.
2. As I said before, he was fulfilling a role. I don't think I need to flog this horse, it's dead and maggot-infested by now.

And why can't God follow his own script? The Bible says in Psa 138:2 that he has magnified his word above ALL his own name! His name there, including his integrity and intents, is subjected to his own Word. So why is is difficult to say that God followed through with his own script in His own wisdom?

God never lost his omniscience. But in cases where his "actor" on earth was not "designed" by the "script" to know something, it would be correct to say that Jesus "did not know" e.g. Mark 13:32. May I use an analogy here? It's like saying that when I look into the mirror, there are some things that my mirror image will know? That in itself is an abstruse statement, can you tell what my mirror image knows? Of course, there are things like my facial expression and my body language that my mirror image can "know", but can it tell you what time I intend to go shopping tomorrow? That analogy is quite poor, but I hope you get my point.

I rest my case. I hope you find your answers.

5. To whom was Jesus praying in Gethsemane? To who did he cry "Eli Eli, La ma sabathacni?" Doubtless to the father. In Gethsemane he makes the crucial statement - "Nevertheless not as i will, but as thou wilt" - making it clear that the Father had a different mind, will and selfconsciousness, because if he were the father himself, that prayer would be moot and paradoxical.

Finally, the last question. I already answered this on the other thread, so to save time I will copy and paste it here.

On Gethsemane:

Using my analogy of Keifer Sutherland acting as Jack Bauer in the action series "24", I know you will agree with me (if you watch the series) that many times, Jack Bauer is close to death, and like every other human being, he does not want to die unless he absolutely has to. In a hypothetical scene, he has been left inside an underground chamber while he tries to deactivate a scheduled nuclear warhead, guarded by Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists.

Jack Bauer (in his mind): Not my will, director (The director is Keifer Sutherland), but yours be done. I really want to get out of this scene alive, and save the people of the United States. (frantically tries to deactivate the warhead, while still shooting the Fundamentalist terrorists that are trying to gun him down and prevent him from doing the work)
Casual Observer (someone who has seen the movie last night on MNet): what nonsense?! Doesn't Keifer know that he will not die, and the CTU will rescue him in the next few minutes? Why is he acting like he doesn't know? Are you sure Jack Bauer is Keifer Sutherland? 'Cos he was interviewed last week and he already told us about this scene!
Maven: But of course he has to behave like that, because that is what his role requires! And if Jack Bauer dies in that movie, Keifer Sutherland will never be Jack Bauer again. At least until another movie. Self-preservation is a fundamental human trait, and he's only human to act that way

[b]Furthermore, I want you to note that everything Jesus did and said was for our benefit. If he acted all macho and marched to the cross, how would we know how to deal with circumstances where it seems our will is far easier than God's more complex (difficult?) will? [/b]Here, Jesus was going to undergo a three-day journey that would at first separate him from the Godhead due to the enormity of man's sins. For the FIRST time, the Son of God was going to be divorced, so to speak, from His Father. In actuality, He knew it was temporary, but for our benefit, he had to take it like a man (no pun intended).

Jesus took his disciples along with him so as to show them how it is to battle out such spiritual tussles, but they were just sleeping like logs

4. “Of that day no one knows, not the angels, nor the son, but only the Father”. Mark 13:32.

Consider these:

Joh 5:19 So Jesus answered them by saying, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, the Son is able to do nothing of Himself (of His own accord); but He is able to do only what He sees the Father doing, for whatever the Father does is what the Son does in the same way [in His turn].
Joh 5:20 The Father dearly loves the Son and discloses to (shows) Him everything that He Himself does. And He will disclose to Him (let Him see) greater things yet than these, so that you may marvel and be full of wonder and astonishment.

Mat 11:27 All things have been entrusted and delivered to Me by My Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known.

As I have explained earlier, the Son is the manifestation of the Father, appearing in human form as Christ Jesus. Everything is known to the FATHER, who wrote the script. But He did not make it such that everything will be "known" by the Son in the script.

As John 5:19 clearly states, JESUS WAS FOLLOWING A SCRIPT! The only thing he can do is what the script-writer had determined or allowed him to do.

Let me illustrate with a movie analogy. A re-enactment of Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes Mysteries. Set in the early 20th century, would we expect the kind of high-tech gadgets that are available in this 21st century to be employed in the script? No, of course not! Even when the Sherlock Holmes actor KNOWS that by programming a hidden camera into a wristwatch as an embedded nanotechnology system, he can solve the mystery at hand, does he do that? So, isn't it clear that the script-writer knows what could have saved the day, but the SON (the actor in THAT form of acting) does not?

On to Question 5.

3. Jesus makes it clear that the father has the same relationship with us (being our father) as with Jesus (being his father). This is emphasized by the text in Jn 20:17. Even after Jesus had died and risen, there remains a clear difference between the two as Peter writes - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" - 1 Pet. 1: 3

I already explained what a Father's role is in the development of a son's character. The FATHER Figure does not necessarily mean sexual progeny, it means someone from whom one is DERIVED. John 8:44 records Jesus saying to a group of dissenting Jews "You are of your father the devil", and this was because their actions were derivative of the devil! Just like Michelle Ferre, acting as Christine, a beautiful CIA undercover agent, also acting according to the script, will have Jackie Chan for a FATHER. BUT NOT the Jackie Chan who is a CIA Agent! It will be the Jackie Chan that wrote the movie script.

God became the FATHER of the Jews starting from when he adopted Abraham, and he revealed himself as El-Shaddai in Genesis 17:1. El-Shaddai translates as "the multi-breasted God" meaning that he had more than enough for anyone at any point in time. That is a real Father. When Jesus spoke to Mary, he spoke as one who was in the cast of mankind, and also following the script of life. And Peter referred to him as the FATHER of CHRIST. Very true! Because Christ came to do his will, perfectly. That is what real sons do.

On to question 4.

2. In the event that you attempt the lame line that he was only saying that because he was here on earth in the physical, then what about Jesus' assertion that he would ascend to be sitted on the right hand side of the father? after being resurrected? This makes it abundantly clear that he is not the same entity at whose rigfht hand he sits. It is made clear in the Gospel that he rose and sat at the right hand side of the Father - Mark 16:19.

Let me start with this Bible verse.

Exo 15:6 Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy.
Exo 15:12 Thou stretchedst out thy right hand, the earth swallowed them.
Deu 33:2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
Psa 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
Psa 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.


The English language is so weak that meanings have been lost in translation. Thank God for verses like Exo 15:6 and many others that show that the "right hand" of God does not mean towards the eastern cartesian coordinates of his upper limbs!

The RIGHT HAND of God means the place of assurance, security, hope, salvation, power, might, glory, favour etc. i.e. anything good that one can benefit from God, emanates from His right hand!

Jesus "seated at the right hand of God" means that the benefits of our salvation are to be obtained THROUGH Him IN GOD.

As for my Jackie Chan analogy, that is like seeing Jackie Chan on the streets in Hollywood and I scream "Jackie Chan!!! Please sign me an autograph!!" and he smiles and asks "Which movie was your favourite?", and then we get to start talking about His character in the movie "Who am I", about the cool Black-OPs CIA dude. The REASON I am interested in the Jackie Chan guy I am talking to, and any autographs I get from his, is only because of His RIGHT HAND, which is the movie character. If the black OPs guy were not on Jackie Chan's RIGHT HAND, who would give two scoobies (viaro! ) about that Chinese guy? I believe my analogy has sufficed in this case.

Question 3 in next post.

Question:

Biblically your assertion that the son is the father collapses very very easily indeed as we will see:

1. Jesus positively asserted that the FATHER was greater than him - Jn 14:28

Answer:

Let me quote it in perspective (from the AMPLIFIED) so we can understand

Joh 14:28 You heard Me tell you, I am going away and I am coming [back] to you. If you [really] loved Me, you would have been glad, because I am going to the Father; for the Father is greater and mightier than I am.
Joh 14:29 And now I have told you [this] before it occurs, so that when it does take place you may believe and have faith in and rely on Me.

This is just like trying to compare the Black OPs CIA agent who was stranded in the African veldt with massive amnesia, to the real Jackie Chan guy who wrote the script? OF COURSE the real Jackie Chan is FAR GREATER and MIGHTIER than that guy in the movie, even if they have the same name! See, for instance, Arnold Schwarzenegger who has acted so many movies, and even has the might of mind to serve as Governor of California, as opposed to his characters who, at the maximum, cannot live for more than 90 minutes or so, and they have to follow a script gullibly no matter what they "want" to do? WHO is greater, then?

Jesus was clearly saying that the disciples ought to be happier, because he was soon stepping out of that restrictive human form, exiting the MOVIE called Earth-life and going to the Father, going off-stage as it were. They ought to be glad if they loved him, because he was stepping out of their (similar) limitations to a point where he could help them when he returns AS the Holy Spirit (as he said, I am coming back to you).

Question 2 in the next post.