₦airaland Forum

FxMasterz:
No, that's not my point. Let me come more elaborately.

I'm using logic to see why humans are practicing religion.

So, I was trying to find the answer from the first humans who ever existed.

Logically speaking, if the first humans worshipped nothing, that's because they saw nothing to worship or better still, they saw nothing worthy of being worshipped. Therefore, Atheism would be the order of the day, not theism.

If atheism was handed down by the first humans, then, it would be very difficult for anyone in any generation to invent religion. It wouldn't be easy at all to force people to worship something that they know does not exist.

I think you're getting my drift. Atheism wasn't the root, theism is. Theism therefore couldn't have been ab invention. Whatsoever is the root, whether theism or atheism wouldn't be an invention because those first humans would know exactly why they were doing what they were doing. This EXACT knowledge is lost on us, hence, we need education about the roots.
The roots carries originality. Things at the roots would be as is. Whatever came afterwards is an invention.

If religion was in our roots, then, the first humans knew what they were worshipping. They probably even saw at the time what they worshipped. If Atheism was in our roots, then, the first humans knew there's nothing to worship. There'll be no need for anyone to even invent religion. All of us would be Atheists, and the concept of religion would then be alien to us. We'll see anyone who follows that path as a fool. But, strikingly, the reverse is the case. Religion has been in the roots, atheism came later. We might have lost the very import of the entire religious concept of the first humans but they evidently worshipped something or someone they knew about.
Furthermore, all rekigons have deferring concepts and practices but they have amazing comon grounds.
The common ground is in something or someone beyond the sky. All or at least most theists believe that there's an all powerful being or beings somewhere beyond the sky. This concept has survived many generations.
Normally, we should just have seen the sky as it is without reading any other meanings to it. But the human mind has been shaped to conform to that ideology until you grow to question it.
This ideology is in itself a pointer. Why look up? And, you see, this ideology is as old as religion itself. It wasn't an invention. And, I believe the first humans have a clear understanding of these things before handling down religion to the entire human race.
If Atheism is the root, then, we wouldn't even be talking about these issue today. Whatever was in the root carries some evidences along with it.

Religion has nothing to do with gods. Look up the origin of the word.
The first humans might have worshipped themselves as subjects do to their kings, how does that concern theism?

Please know the definition of theism and atheism.

KnownUnknown:
Yes, otherwise known as apologetics

Apologetics to their jewish stories, of course.
If zeus and odin had apologetics they will still be worshipped till today.

FxMasterz:
I think we can get somewhere with this.
Frankly speaking, no one has the records of what the first humans worshipped. Our ancestors who were polytheists were still a later generation. Yet, we can still make judgement on their basis because at least they're theists, and we can safely say that theism was handed down to them by their predecessors.
For the first humans, we cannot talk about education because they wouldn't have needed it. These set of people would definitely see, touch and know whatever they were worshipping for them to have passed it down to all human race. We're the ones who need education because we don't know what they knew. All our religious education or research should be geared towards knowing what they knew. Or towards seeing what they saw.

This is very strong because they wouldn't pass down religion without having a cogent reason for doing so. I'm very sure that the first humans who passed it down didn't do so as a fabrication because there'll be nothing to gain from such. If atheism was the root, then we can discard religion because, if the first humans saw nothing, the human race would worship nothing, and it would be very difficult for anyone to convince anybody to worship something that does not exist.

We also don’t know for sure if the first humans(homo sapiens) worshipped anything.
It could have been a later invention, the burying of dead people didn’t start with the first humans.

As you said, Since the first humans invented their own thing to worship, why don’t we also invent our idols to worship?

Different humans from different areas of earth had something they were worshipping, they did not pass it down to “human race”.
So from the start there would have been various deities worshipped. Sango worshippers worship their own, ogun worshippers do their own even though they are in the same tribe. They would have been polytheist from start!

if there are no gods there are no kings.
They use gods and religion for control.

Because first humans were worshipping deities doesn’t mean we should also do, there are so many things that they do that we don’t do now. Why is the deity worshipping the only one we want to emulate?

Early humans were illiterate and uneducated, they were inventing deities out of ignorance. Some even said their god is the one that causes rain and thunder. If we take a trip back to the first humans with all our gadgets and modern inventions, they will call us god too and they’ll also have their “cogent reasons”.
What these ancestors knew then is not up to what we know now in 21st century, so you think if they have the knowledge we have now they would have invented deities?

WE ARE MORE ADVANCED THAT THEM.

You’ve so many hasty generalisation in what you saying.

KnownUnknown:
The Midrash (wonder what happened to Lowrash and Hirash. Regardless, it is Trash) is even more demented than Christian apologetics. Disingenuous Jews just writing all manner of excuses and depraved nonsense to distract from the inconsistencies of the stories and the apparent psychosis of their god. Wanna laugh or be repulsed? Read the Midrash that try to justify and excuse the Passover murders of Egyptian firstborns.

The midrash is use to explain the torah.

FxMasterz:
Bro, religion dates far into man's distant past. The first humans have a better understanding of these things than we whose religious histories have been majorly lost, and what we now call religion generally is a metamorphosis.

First, we need to understand that no one invented religion. It was actually in our roots. The first ancestors worshiped something or someone. Then, several generations afterwards, that something or someone became less known since everything at the time was passed down through oral history.

Then cane a generation that does not know what to worship but know they must worship something or someone as their fathers did, resulting in a mutiplicity of gods as everyone worships what he seems fit.

Generations later, some people are asking 'Is there really a God? Is there really an Afterlife?' if we have traceable records, I'm 100% certain we'll find the first Atheist who ever lived. This means the human race didn't take off in Atheism and then plunged itself into religion as we have it today. The Agnostics are themselves confused because they don't know what to believe.

The whole argument would have been easier if we have ancient records of things from the earliest man but the very lack of this is the reason why we all have disagreements.

However, even if such ancient records exist, many would still doubt such records. There are those who'll call them Fabrications. And of course, there are those unscrupulous elements who'll try to do mischievous forgeries and scripts for some personal gains at the expense of others.

Logically looking at it all, the begining wasn't atheism. That's fact. The first humans were theists. That should point us to some truths. They evidently were theists because they knew or even saw what they worshipped.
They also knew why they were worshipping him, it or them. They've passed the concept down to the entire human race who have now lost the identity of what was worshipped, and now the confusion.

Except we can prove that Atheism was the first thing humans ever did before veering into religion, we cannot safely void this kind of reasoning.

Maybe The first human were deity worshippers, they were also illiterate and not educated.
Should we be like them?

How can atheism be the first? you need to have various gods, then some people reject the gods, some even acknowledge their own gods but reject others,that’s we have monotheism.

We can say our human ancestors were polytheists, and from polytheism evolve to monotheism.

bobestman:
it is not. From 1524 till now is not up to 500. So stop lying. It is not an hebrew alphabet good, why then do wannabe hebrews who claim to be older aka jews - rev 3:3,9 use it as in jews, judaism? Na you full abi? Jewish clown with brain infested with jewish fables. What you know are the half stories

Which history did you read that said it was 1524? The corrupted history you’ve been shouting? Hope it’s not from google?
Please send link to where you saw “1524”

The jews don’t speak English or latin, they don’t use “j”.
Jew-יהודי
You’re a delusional liar!

OLAADEGBU:
Breaking: Evolution Has Been Observed!

Follow Follow.

Workch:
Maynman is an atheistic version of dtruthspeaker.

I ignore both like parasites

Workch is the more deluded version of dtruthspeaker.

I use to think you had something, but just realised you are as empty like a typical theist especially monotheist.

bobestman:
jewish this, jewish that...all you know is jewish fables. The later j is not even up to 500yrs old and these things are far older. How did the j get in their? Answer jewish clown

The letter “j” is more than 500 years old and besides the letter “j” is not an hebrew alphabet.
יהודי

You are empty!

bobestman:
lol see someone highly deluded calling another person deluded. You think i don't understand scriptures? You even mentioned yahweh? Lol. Your brain is full of jewish fables. Go cure yourself

Illiterate, what’s the meaning of the word “scriptures”?
You mean jewish writings?

Yes I mentioned yhwh, one of his tetragrammation is yahweh. Is that the israelite deity you worship?

Your brain is full of self inflicted delusions. Stop deluding yourself into meaningless mystery.

You are empty!

bobestman:
your brain is already infested with false history. I told they are just impostors that only knew the half stories. Before jacob or isreal, their was isi-ra - the prince of isreal or the hebrews. Isreal was even gotten from his name. You might read all the book in the world and still be a spiritual olodo

You are empty and saying jargons purported by your deluded self.
Calling you an illiterate is an understatement.

israEL means Wrestled with EL.
El is the head patheon of the cannaite gods, he was the one that gave israEL nation as an inheritance to yahweh, which made him become the isrealite god.

You are empty!
Ode thinks knowing one of the languages of the middle east is “spiritual”.

jesusjnr2020:
He knows all, you don't, so trust Him, He knows what He's doing even if you don't.

He wouldn't kill or destroy all except He deems it necessary as He did in the days of righteous Noah when man had filled the Earth with his wickedness and corruption.

An all knowing yahweh didn’t know earth will be filled with wickedness and corruption?
No wonder yahweh regretted.


Why didn’t he spare the lives of kids and babies, even pregnant women? How will a baby or foetus repent? Did it even do anything? From a righteous god??


Religion is crazy, a boko haram will also justify what you saying with his god. He only needs to say.
“ALLAH, the righteous judge, never kills or destroys human lives except it is the absolute last resort when every other option has been exhausted”

bobestman:
keep learning from google. Even in the bible they used hebrews or isreal. I speak of what i know that is far older than history. You speak of what google tell you. Wait for the restoration of hebrew nation

I keep learning from history especially jewish history. You keep learning from ignorance and delusions.
Where in the tanakh or New Testament did they use hebrews or israel.
Hope you know it was jacob name that was converted to israel.

You are empty.

jesusjnr2020:
What's that compared to the days of righteous Noah when God, the righteous Judge, had completely destroyed all human beings, including infants, because men had filled the earth with wickedness and corruption, but spared only the righteous man on Earth and his family?

God, the righteous judge, never kills or destroys human lives except it is the absolute last resort when every other option has been exhausted.

That's why He spared the lives of the people of Nineveh despite that He wanted to destroy them because of their wickedness. They truly repented so He didn't need to.

An all knowing god.


Why didn’t he spare the lives of kids and babies, even pregnant women? How will a baby repent? Did it even do anything? From a righteous god??


Religion is crazy, a boko haram will also justify what you saying with his god. He only needs to say.
“ALLAH, the righteous judge, never kills or destroys human lives except it is the absolute last resort when every other option has been exhausted”

Workch:
lol, why are you allowing that guy to wear you out?

You are mentally strong enough to just ignore him

Are you empty?

A001:
Seun, please Nairaland is long overdue for a block button. Some members of this forum have a mental disorder and constitute a nuisance on the forum.

Why don’t you ignore them and stop posting on their threads if you are not a fellow nuisance like them?

A001:
Quote where I said so. It seem you dey ment, mentioning me unnecessarily on a stupid thread I don't follow.

Are you dumb?

Tell us how a god can exist, you’ve gone empty.

bobestman:
hehe hahaha lol ...have told you your histories are full of corruptions. You have many corruption in your brain. Hebrew is a nation. Some see it as a language, all they have is fake. Sorry you can't understand now

Hebrew is a language gotten from cannanite, one of the semitic languages.

You are empty, I already told you not to delude yourself into mystery.

A001:
😂😂😂😂😂 He can't stop mentioning me. This one don mad finish 😂😂😂😂

He can’t stop repeating himself like a broken clock on my Thread.

Hin don craze finish bwahahahah

bobestman:
the scripture is a hebrew book not jewish. Jews are wannabe hebrew who were converted yesterday. They are rev 3:3,9. They only knew the half stories. The mccoys who were removed from history by the powers that be shall teach you all the truth when they are restored. Yea we were even before adam

Hebrew is a language not a group of people. Stop disgracing yourself.
The jewish book called tanakh is written in paleo hebrew.
Scripture means writing

Revelation a book written by Christians has nothing to do with tanakh or hebrew or jews.

Oh man bwahahahah

A001:
Lols, the were still dey mention me. When your life is miserable offline, you'd turn Nairaland to a home. You can keep on crying in my mention 😂😂😂😂😂

For like 10 minutes now you’ve been saying the same thing. It seems you the lifeless one bwahahhaha

A001:
Continue crying in my mention. You no even kuku life offline.

Look at you wey get life outside and you sound this bitter and sour

A001:
Keep quoting me. When you're tired, you'll stop. Or you don't even need to stop.

A fool that spends 24 hours on Nairaland posting senseless comments.

A bigger fool that follows and monitors people that spend 24 hours on nairaland posting comments.

A001:
Ask Google. Direct your question to believers in god.

But I should “ back his claim with my post that says God can exist or only one one God exists.” To you?
I should prove my claim to different gods worshippers then not you.

A001:
Who cares? Yesterday, the dimwit called agnostics monotheists. Today, it's agnostic theists.

Yet, he can't back his claim with my post that says God can exist or only one one God exists. I'm sure tomorrow, he will use another term he doesn't know its meaning to describe agnostics.

I don't have the luxury of time to be engaging a foolish poster that calls himself an atheist yet bears "divine light". It's plain stupidity.

Illiterate, is a monotheist not a theist?

First back up your own claim by explaining how a god has the ability to exist or not.


Illiterate doesn’t know what atheism means .

Workch:
lol, I cannot engage this guy o.

Someone that will repeatedly be typing irrelevant things

It seems like that to you because you lack the knowledge of the words you are using.
Deistic idols

bobestman:
the first shall be the last. The ancient ppl are those chosen to teach the truth - isaiah 44:7. Why they slept, religion hijacked it. Wait for their restoration. Things i say won't make any sense to you now. One day, you will get it

You are quoting jewish books, is that the people that lived million years ago?

Don’t delude yourself into mystery.

A001:
Useless argument. Keep wasting away your youth creating threads upon threads and posts and upon posts arguing about God's existence or inexistence.

No go find work.

I only engage smart people, not dumb persons that don't know basic science.

Agnostic theist

budaatum:
I've brought this here to drag it away from your more active thread so as not to detail it.

I do not agree with the "let’s all stick to I DONT KNOW", (on the assumption it is meant as "no one knows", and not just you claiming to not know, if which I misunderstand, what follows is irrelevant).

If one has not done the work to know, then indeed one should say one does not know, but a general categorical "no one knows" (my assumption of the meaning and intent of your "I DONT KNOW", with apologies if wrong), is just not true since some know because they have bothered to do the work in order to know and therefore do know.

Also, it is not very wise to "reject any explanation given to us by scientists and Theists", unless by "accept" you mean uncritically accept and believe it.

And this thing is not unknownable.

First, it is very possible to know what is already known, since many express what they know in writings which can be read or accessed in other ways to therefore know what they know. The knowledge (what is claimed to be known) about gods go back to very early writing and from many cultures, so one must consider such "explanations". You yourself have explained your knowing here for consideration and thereby increased the knowledge of those who read it either we agree or not.

Second, scientists and sometimes, theists, do quite a lot of research, often more than a layperson may do, so their explanation (opinion) is worth consideration. And that's apart from learning how their explanations have changed or been abandoned or evolved over time, which will increase one's own knowing and understanding, not only of the explanation but also of the explainer and what they explain.

Third, one can compare and contrast the various explanations to see where they agree or disagree or express the same idea different or same and compare to one's own understanding and knowing, which will increase one's own understanding and knowledge. It's a lot of work, I admit, but it's not impossible to do the work in order to know.

Not doing the work and claiming not to know, is true, in some sense, but those who make such claims of not knowing and then go on to explain their opinions of knowledge, are presenting a fallacy of untruths that they have already ascertained for themselves, just as you explained.

I was talking on an agnostic position in relation to their deistic god.

jesusjnr2020:
Why should I when I haven't done any evil or sinned against him?
God is not willing that anyone perishes but that all come to repentance, so He would only do that where necessary as the righteous Judge of the Earth, however could have still forgiven them if they truly repented even after He said that as He did in the instance of Nineveh.

That's the difference, one never destroy unless it is absolutely necessary, the other never comes unless it's to steal, kill and destroy. John 10:10.

That's his plan A, plan B, plan C, up to plan Z. Destroy! Destroy! Destroy!

“the other never does.“ how did you know?

How does killing babies make someone a righteous judge?

Deuteronomy 20:16-18 Yahweh orders the Israelites to "not leave alive anything that breathes… completely destroy them …

OLAADEGBU:
Come off it! Adam and Eve existed about 4,000 years before Christ.

The jewish stories you are basing your life on, atleast have a complete copy.
It seems those that complied your KJV were cherry picking which part to choose, or is it the masoteric text? Bwahahahah

LordReed:
The god wants to breed Sardaukar. LoLz.

What a training!