₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Nah wa ọ!
So worshipers of SCIENCE can't even agree on the definition of their god!

Don’t deity worshippers have different gods, is your god name not yahweh?

DeepSight:
What you have presented is an archaic definition. An ancient one, which is no longer applicable. The origin and etymology of a word is not always descriptive of its current meaning. Today, science is not a synonym for knowledge. This is a fact. There are fields of knowledge outside scientific knowledge. This is also a fact.

Here is the definition of science from the Oxford Dictionary -

science
/ˈsʌɪəns/
noun
noun: science
1.
the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained.
"the world of science and technology"
Similar:
branch of knowledge
area of study
discipline
field
a particular area of science.
plural noun: sciences
"veterinary science"
a systematically organized body of knowledge on a particular subject.
"the science of criminology"
2.
ARCHAIC
knowledge of any kind.
"his rare science and his practical skill"

As far as the context of this discussion is concerned, we evidently speak of science in terms of the known areas of natural scientific study such as physics, biology, chemistry, cosmology, etc.

Who made it an archaic definition which is no longer applicable? You?

Even what you posted said what i said, science means knowledge.
None of your definition says “physics, biology, chemistry, cosmology
You ascertain knowledge through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained not only LOGIC. So which area is Knowledge used without all these but only logic? Deepsight?.
Even Physics was known as natural philosophy before, hope you know what “philo” means.
Biology was discovered by a philosopher.

so is it ignorance and beliefs that you’re using in your discussion?

DeepSight:
Sorry, that is not the definition of science. Furthermore, there are many fields of knowledge outside that which is scientifically derived.

Sorry to you too, That’s the definition of science. so is is it ignorance and beliefs that you’re using in your discussion?
You are yet to tell me the clear definition of “god”.

DeepSight:
This discussion is not limited to science. In fact, science can only be used in very tiny snippets here because this discussion is mostly far beyond the realm of science.

PS: The word radiation I used, is for want of a better word and does not refer to any radiation you might understand by science.

Science by definition means Knowledge, so is it ignorant and beliefs that you’re using in your discussion?

Then you have to find the perfect word to explain how your intangible god made a tangible thing.
You’re riding on so much assumptions.

DeepSight:
There is more than sufficient logic to infer the existence of that ultimate element in which we say inheres the self-existent principle at the root of reality. The fact that we are compelled, by limitation of language, to use the word "God" - common to many other usages, should do nothing to detract from this.



I dont have a religion, I am completely irreligious and if you look at my history on this platform you will find it richly spiced with condemnation of Judaism, Christianity and Islam alike.

Now, having said that, the below are truly good questions. Beware, I dont have all the answers, I just have my thoughts which I will share in brief.



I dont believe that the physical world was directly created by the ultimate intangible self-existent principle. Rather my view rests within a kind of natural radiation arising from the source which over zillions of unfathomable gradations causes various dimensions to come into existence one of which eventually coalesces at a certain level as the physical universe.

Science don’t work on logic, they work on fact and data, and even so show me the sufficient logic of the element and not elements.

But you only learn the concept of “god” through religion. You said the idea of “god” is in most traditions, please mention 2 of those traditions.

Well, you believe what you don’t Know.
Is radiation not physical, radiation do mutates and it’s tangible, so how can radiation come from a source that is not physical, intangible and immutable?

DeepSight:
A self existent this IS.


It does not grow or evolve in the way that humans do. Neither can it be born or die.

It also cannot be physical. It is necessarily intangible and immutable.

We have evidence that humans exist and can be birthed and also die, where is the evidence of this god or deity? And all the claims you attribute to it.
You are making assumptions over assumptions, you are just using the idea of your monotheistic religion.

How can something that’s not physical create something physical?
How can something intangible create that which is tangible?
Or something immutable create something that’s mutable?

DeepSight:
A number of things.

1. For anything to exist (and things exist), something or the other must self-exist. Otherwise nothing will exist. Happy to expatiate on this, but dwell on it carefully.

Why do you think humans can not self exist but a “god” can? What’s the parameters?

DeepSight:
There is a clear idea of what is referred to by the word "God" and that idea is that of a being said to be the source of creation. The language used is irrelevant, the idea exists in all traditions and at all times in history.

By contrast, "htjshsidnf" has no meaning. What does it mean, please tell me, and is it an idea people of all traditions have haboured throughout history?

Please tell me the clear idea of the definition of God? What’s the etymology?
If the idea of god exist in different traditions, that means we have different gods. The Christian god called yahweh is different from arabic god called allah or the hindu god called brahma etc.

And if agnostic know the clear meaning of god, why are they confused if god exist or not?

htjshsidnf Means the creator of God.

justcool:
The vastness of existence haunts mankind; we know so little about the universe whose vastness overwhelms our imagination.
Some people doubt that the human mind is capable of knowing all that exists; therefore, the knowledge of whether the universe has a creator or not is out of the question. Hence, agnosticism!
The Agnostic proposes that the human mind is incapable of knowing whether God exists or not.
Is the agnostic right? Do you think that we can know whether the universe has a creator or not?
Join us as we examine the interesting viewpoint of agnosticism.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxIqkwRE5m8

How did the agnostic come up with the idea of a “god”, where did he learn that word from?
Is just like me proposing whether “htjshsidnf” exist or not.
Now, what’s “htjshindf”? How did i come up with it?
Let the agnostics explain how they came up with “god” to know if it’s something that can exist or not.
Agnostics are just wannabe Monotheists!

justcool:
The vastness of existence haunts mankind; we know so little about the universe whose vastness overwhelms our imagination.
Some people doubt that the human mind is capable of knowing all that exists; therefore, the knowledge of whether the universe has a creator or not is out of the question. Hence, agnosticism!
The Agnostic proposes that the human mind is incapable of knowing whether God exists or not.
Is the agnostic right? Do you think that we can know whether the universe has a creator or not?
Join us as we examine the interesting viewpoint of agnosticism.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxIqkwRE5m8

Which of the gods? Yahweh?

“Believers”, y’all don’t know how weird that title is? Bwahahahah

Human being before been religious.

AntiChristian:
Dangote too knows it's not by his power or Might! no need arguing for him.

Abeg spare me with all this falsehood!

Dangote uncle, dantata was the richest while he was alive. It’s common sense and not “allah wills”.

You are the one that’s lying!or you are ignorant of your religion and arabic god called allah.


Hope you know jesus means “yahweh saves”?

AntiChristian:
I am just telling many factors worked together with his hard work and smartness for him to be where he is.

Some Jews believe he existed.


The Jews don't own God to themselves!
The God of Noah is not only the God of the Jews!
And no story was copied from the Bible in the Qur'an!
There are many similarities and differences in both !

Of course many factors did and it’s not just “allah wills”.

No jews believe he existed.
the jews own yahweh to themselves!
Yahweh is the god of israelite.
The creation story you have in your quran was copied from tanakh.

AntiChristian:
That's my probability!
So everyone that did what Dangote did will get government monopoly as he did and also get other waivers?

The Tanakh is not a book of what happened during Jesus time. It was before him. So why would Jesus's story be there?

Dangote is not the only one getting monopoly and waivers.

The tanakh is the book of the jews, and that’s what jews use, the story of jesus is found only in New Testament created by Christians, and jews reject New Testament, so tel me which jew recognizes jesus or claim that they killed him? Jesus doesn’t exist among jews or Judaism, it exist only in New Testament created by Christians!

Hope you know that jesus means yahweh saves.
Yahweh is the god of the jews.
Your creation story in the quran was copied from Torah a part of Tanakh.

AntiChristian:
There are many that works smarter and harder than him but may not be privileged to reach his status.

This is false. He is coming to prove to them that he wasn't killed. The Jews do recognize him.

The instant i was quoting is not the one you are quoting. He did say according to the Bible that the greatest commandment is to worship the Lord your God who is one. You shall love Him with all your heart.....

How did you arrive at many people works smarter and harder than him?
If they do, they should be the richest also. So tell me how you arrive at “many people”.

You are the one lying, the jews don’t recognize him talkless of saying that he was killed, show me verses in the tanakh that mentioned jesus or jews that recognize him.

The bible was not written in English, and jesus didn’t speak English. The “god” in that context is yahweh, that’s the god of the jews. Even the name “jesus” means “yahweh saves”.
Yahweh is the god of the tanakh.

Once again the jews don’t recognize jesus.

AntiChristian:
Did Abraham call his religion Judaism?
And how is God an Israelite God only when He created the world?

Abraham worshipped yahweh.
The religion of yahweh was called yahwism before it was later called judaism.

God is a title not a person.
Allah and yahweh are both Abrahamaic gods.

AntiChristian:
Were they judaist too as they worship ONLY one God without partners?

Yes, Abraham is the father of Judaism, and they worship the Israelite god called yahweh.

AntiChristian:
Yeah sure but there are many that work harder and maybe smarter than him but less richer!
Yeah he's a messenger! All messengers are prophets but not all Prophets are messengers!
How many times will i tell you Jesus didn't die? Anyone who does has completed his destiny on earth!
Jesus wasn't crucified in reality! The Jews made the claim that he was crucified and called him a Basta*d.



What is Islam? Islam was around but you don't understand it. Even in the Bible as it is now, a man came to ask Jesus how he can gain eternal life. Jesus told him to obey the commandments! Then Jesus later said he should follow him. This is similar to what all Prophets preached!

The people of Noah were meant to obey and worship God by following Noah's command. Same as Moses, Abraham and others!
Islam was the religion of Noah, Moses and Abraham. Were they judaist too as they worship ONLY one God without partners?

No one works harder or smarter than him, if they do their results should show.

You made a statement that jesus is coming back to prove to the jews that he was killed, jews don’t even recognize jesus, talkless of making claims of killing jesus, so who is jesus coming back to prove things too?

Jesus said they should follow the commandments laid down by yahweh.
When they ask jesus what was the greatest commandment what did he say?

AntiChristian:
That's his destiny as Allah wills it. I don't know why Dangote is the richest man in Africa in particular! Allah wills whatever He wishes!

Jesus wasn't crucified! He's proving those who made the claim wrong!
Jesus was not crucified nor killed! He was raised up body and soul!



Because all humans must die. He hasn't completed his life. So he has to get married, live his life to the full and then die!

The only religion acceptable to Allah is Islam. All those who follow the Prophets in truth till they die are Muslims even if they are called other names!

It's either you're a Muslim or not!

Dangote is the richest man in Africa because he worked for it, starting from his uncle dantata.
It seems there’s more to jesus than just a prophet.
We have lot of people that died prematurely, will they also complete their destiny and come back alive?

You said jesus was crucified by the jew, and that’s a lie he was not, so who are those that said made the claim that he was crucified? Certainly not the jews.

There was no islam when jesus was alive. Jesus would have been a judaist. How come it is that same jesus that your allah chose?

AntiChristian:
Jesus is not coming back to end the world!
He's coming back just before the end of the world to complete his destiny! He will live as as a follower of Muhammad and rule with the Qur'an. He will get married, live and die as a Muslim.

Part of his destiny is to kill the Dajjal (AntiChrist) too.

He will prove the Jews wrong of their claims to have crucified/Killed him. He will prove the Christians wrong in their exaggeration of him that he said he was God or son of God or one in trinity!

So why is it jesus in particular?
So jesus was really crucified?, I thought it said otherwise in your quran?
So who is he proving wrong?
Even though gan, Is it only jesus that was killed as a prophet, so why is he the only one coming back to “prove”?
Christians and jews are not the only religion in the world, who is coming to prove other religions wrong?

Why is it jesus and not another prophet?

AntiChristian:
You are the fool here! I'm going to hell but once I claim to accept Jesus as Lord and savior now hell will become paradise!

Ignoramus show us where Jesus started a religion called Christianity?

You're worse than a dog!
Lucifer incarnate!

Anuofia!

Wanted to ask, if jesus is just another prophet, why is he the one coming back to end the world?

Jennyclay:
Ladies are endangered species in this country.

Government should please do something about this issue of ritual killing before these evil and heartless men kill all of us finish .

Who runs the government? The same evil and heartless men?
Pray to your god, who you also refer to as “HE” bwahahahah

Who prophesied the negative prophecy in the first place? Your god didn’t think it through that it will eventually affect a innocent person?

AmeLonRo:
No sir.

The scriptures has a good prophecy for the last days and a good one. We all have the right to choose the right prophecy to fulfil.

There is a small book I read about Judas many years ago. The title was the betrayal case. From a legal point of view, someone else would have betrayed Jesus if Judas did not do it. Scripture said someone close to Jesus would betray Him, but the scripture did not say it would be Judas.
In the same vein, the scriptures said a virgin will conceive and bear the Saviour, but the scriptures did not specify that it would be Mary.
You have a choice in all these things.
I refuse to fulfil negative prophecies.
Decide well today sir.

You said nothing, i never said anything about “scripture” that was written by unknown authors.
Read it slowly.

“ Since jesus already knew judas was gonna betray him, it seems it was predetermined and judas had no say in it, so what exactly is judas sin? He was only following the script out of his own free will.
Also, it’s because of that predetermined action that made him frustrated and commit suicide, your god and jesus need to ask judas for forgiveness.

He was USED AND DUMPED.”

You clearly lack basic thinking.
You said geneva is outdated and kjv contains modern English which i wrote “updated”
And i said most accurate has nothing to do with outdated and modern English.
If you are referring to accuracy shouldn’t kjv be accurate to the hebrew language it was translated from?

I have problem with kjv by pointing out how it was created? You clearly worship kjv.

SeraphEl:
You clearly lack comprehension. Are you awake? Go get some coffee then return and reread my posts.

I said outdated not updated.
I am referring to accuracy not modern language.

You clearly have issues with KJV. I am not here for that. That’s on you.

Yawn, neither am i too.
The most accurate translation is different from the one with modern English.
Because kjv contains updated English doesn’t make it accurate.

And NIV has more modern English in it than kjv.

SeraphEl:
“Sigh”. Look, I am not here to argue KJV and your conspiracies.

Because, KJV is the most commonly known and accessible to most people of TODAY. And in today’s ENGLISH.

Look up Geneva and you will see its English is OUTDATED.

In fact most people don’t use KJV because it’s considered outdated English.

SeraphEl:
Did you actually read my post to understand? Or just to respond?

First, The bible is telling a story. Second, i said story as analogy to translational accuracy.

Did i not say, Geneva precedes KJV. Actually, there were other English translations that preceded Geneva.

I really don’t care if it used Jehova or not. Not really the point and irrelevant to this topic.

What language was the story written in?

If there are others that precedes KJV, how is kjv then the most accurate translation?

The point is KJV is riddled with errors and it was created for a political reason.

SeraphEl:
Its one of the earliest translations. It is the closest if you will to the original meaning of the Hebrew text.

Like telling a story. If you want to hear the most original story in its original words/meanings, find the earliest person who heard and told the the story. The 7th person is more accurate than the 17th person who “passed” on the story.


Google any Bible scripture and compare the various translations and you will see that many of them deviate or convey different meaning.

When you get to such issues of varying meaning, it’s beat to compare to KJV or even earliest translations such as Geneva bible.

King James Version which came after the geneva version is just an English translation that was created by tyndale, a Jehovah witness. It’s only the text that included “jehovah”.

Kjv is just a English translation, it’s not telling any story. KJv is a politically motivated text.
Let’s go to do the real hebrew books and see how accurate kjv is.
First off, in the translation of Exodus 20:13 as ‘Thou shalt not kill.’

Any scholar of the Torah will tell you that the verb in the original, ratsah, means ‘murder’.

What are you suppose to be before?

SeraphEl:
Your writing reflects your lack of critical thinking skills and comprehension. Or perhaps, rather, your dark spiritual elements.

Simple answer:

1. [b]poor Hebrew to English transliteration. 2. Poor choice of english word description for creepy crawly things. KJV (the most accurate transliteration) says “creepy or crawly things. Also “winged creatures that go on all four”. 3. Also, “walk” does not imply actual walk like in land creatures but a symbol that insects do “move about”.

Long answer:

Original language matters. Original language was Hebrew. Hebrew is a very complicated language that has many levels like an onion.

As such, most hebrew words do NOT have an exact English equivalent or transliteration. Therefore, the most basic or closer English word is used in cases to describe Hebrew word.

I suspect you already know this somehow. Or maybe you really are impaired in deep critical thinking.

BTW: I am a doctor, quite aware of science of zoology et al. There are creepy crawly insects that “walk”. Use google.

How is king james VERSION the most accurate translation?

chieveboy:
I foresee more yawns if we go deeper, at least you've shown capacity in that direction so far.

Not to offend you, how "going deeper" is done is that you need to come with something...as in knowing something of the subject, else, we risk "casting gold on the wrong neck"...This is only the law of economy...

You are yet to show capacity that you have knowledge on the jargons you are writing. The only thing going deeper is your shallowness.

How come you can write this epistle but can’t prove it? Is that how scientists do?

“Deeper laws of physics” bwahahahah

chieveboy:
This thread if you focus on its basics is for you to be aware that you can personally verify these things rather than engage in arguments on whether you're being deceived or not.

Any one regardless of belief in God or Lack of it has access to visit the so-called heavens to see things for themselves and be first-knowers.

You can know the deeper laws of physics in the inner planes, after all no founder of industry and genius on earth today had not been there consciously or unconsciously.

Just be patient and hear the "Tales by moonlight" I am posting please. May be something might tick for you.

Yawn, can you prove all these assertions, or you want to keep rambling?

Physics was originally called natural philosophy, so tell me the deeper laws of it and the equation of how you arrived to it.
Talk is Cheap.