₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
I guess I'm going to have to conclude that you did not notice that Jesus and Socrates taught the use of the senses.


This is so untrue! Even knowledge of breathing is not instilled in new born humans who have to learn it in reaction to the new environment they find themselves. Those who don't learn quick, die.

What you, Mayn, know was not "already instilled" in you, but acquired through extensive research, but let me know if I am wrong please.

Yes it is, we are only relearning it..

budaatum:
I guess I'm going to have to conclude that you did not notice that Jesus and Socrates taught the use of the senses.


This is so untrue! Even knowledge of breathing is not instilled in new born humans who have to learn it in reaction to the new environment they find themselves. Those who don't learn quick, die.

What you, Mayn, know was not "already instilled" in you, but acquired through extensive research, but let me know if I am wrong please.


Nature has been understood by humans to a great degree and only because humans have studied nature with their senses. If they hadn't, they be dumb as fuq like stupid Adam!


Wisdom is the use of knowledge.


And I'm certain you'd agree that many humans do not have this special knowledge of how to be just.


The knowledge of treating people was not created. It was scientifically learned through extensive research and has forever continued to evolve into what it is today.


A definition of wisdom is the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgement; the quality of being wise.

I'd say carpentry, engineering, rocket science, tailoring are far more that knowledge and include knowing how to do those things, which is the utilisation of knowledge.

No they didn’t, looks do deceive, you should read them up again.

Breathing happens naturally, “on its own”.

Doing your own job is just. The knowledge of treating people was created and it was called medicine, medicine is a craft. Wisdom is also a craft, and it’s the function of the soul.
When those crafts was created it was given those names.

No that’s not the definition of sophia, wisdom.

budaatum:
It does when you repeat what we've already agreed on as if we haven't.

I didn’t, what you said has zero correlation to the discussion.

budaatum:
I have not defined the sun at all, Mayn.


Kindly stop with the "we". I am not observing science. I am using the skills learnt from learning science to observe so I may know.


I wouldn't say so myself, since knowledge is rather subjective. Knowledge, as in, what is known, used to be that the earth was flat and was created by some god and travelled around the sun, but the doing of science, as in, humans using their senses, have shown that knowledge to be wrong.


You might just find that the knowledge of doing science or being a cobbler is "special", and is only acquired by those who seek it, but I guess we might need to understand what we mean by special.

I have no 'special knowledge' pertaining to the heart, so I doubt you'd let me perform heart surgery on you and you'd would rather go to a person with special knowledge of the heart I hope, and neither would you pay me to cobble your shoes since I have no special knowledge of cobbling.

You already said “effects of sun”, as a thing that can causes effects according to our human senses.
It is you that’s using the “we”, I only copied you.
Science itself is observation using our limited senses.

Knowledge is knowledge, our understanding of knowledge is what is subjective, either you understand the earth as flat or square it doesn’t affect the shape of the earth!

A cobbler should be a cobbler do his job.
An engineer should be an engineer and do his job.
Doing your own job is the definition of justice.

You are not a doctor so why would I allowed you to do a heart surgery?
Just the same way I won’t allow a heart surgeon to fly me in a plane, each his doing their own job, no special knowledge.

budaatum:
I am not going over this with you again since we've established it in a thread of its own. Please go read it and get up to scratch so we may move on please.

https://www.nairaland.com/7246156/israelite-god-yahweh-shasu-tribe#115075808

This has zero correlation with the discussion.

budaatum:
Socrates, like Jesus, was teaching the use of the senses, which is science, so one does not just believe

Special knowledge does not mean "reserved for a select few or confined to academic institutions". Special knowledge is reserved however for those who ask and knock with all their hearts and minds and soul and being and other senses. Those who seek not shall never find.

Wisdom is not the same thing as knowledge. Knowledge is, the "sun at 12pm", while wisdom is why, how, what, etc, and 'lets build a rocket or telescope to go see for ourselves what we've claimed so we may actually know what we claim we believe".

No jesus nor socrates didn’t teach the senses, only thr flesh has appetites, only the flesh suffer and feel pain. They taught more than that.

Knowledge is already instilled in everyone, if they know it or not. There is no extra knowledge anywhere, the “soul” does not do any knocking, like i said earlier we all acting as persons.
Seeing is believing, looks do deceive.
We can’t use our limited senses to understand nature, Ziren.

Wisdom is a form of a knowledge.
Everyone needs wisdom to live their lives, we need wisdom to be just.
When the knowledge of treating people was created it was called medicine.
When the knowledge of those things was created it that called those name, carpentry, engineering, rocket science, tailorong, they are not called “wise”, they are called knowledgeable.

budaatum:
We do not see in codex sinaitcus that the "tale of iesus created by the chrestians", though it's obvious in any Bible that the tales of Jesus were created by those who wrote them. But think we've established that the storys and myths were orally trasmitted for centurys and then went through numerous rewrites, redacts, additions, translations, syncretism, omissions, etc etc, etc sufficiently already, unless you'd like us to go back to what we already established.

What should be next is us "scientifically" analysing what we read in said book to gain knowledge from it if there's any.

Yes “we” do see, the codex sinaitcus was created by the Chrestians and for the chrestians.

Has no correlation with what we saying.

Bible means collection of books, and the New Testament created by the chrestians was meant for propaganda.
One should know the origin of the book, who it was written for, why it was written, thats science which is knowledge itself.

Socrates said that all individuals should strive for the love of wisdom and engage in philosophical inquiry as a means to understand the world and themselves better.

Socrates said that wisdom was not something reserved for a select few or confined to academic institutions. Instead, he argued that every individual had the capacity and responsibility to seek knowledge, examine their beliefs, and lead a virtuous and examined life.

budaatum:
Science is not the mere observation of the sun at any particular time. Science of the sun will include what is the sun, what is its influence on what we call time (like how long it takes the sun to complete a cycle), what effect does the sun have and of what use is the sun in general etc etc etc.

In early days, the study of the sun resulted in religious schools to teach what was known so further study could be embarked on.


One could argue that there is "special knowledge" everywhere actually, special being a subset of speciality and specialization. I would need special knowledge to get to the moon, for instance, or to create a computer chip or a nuclear bomb or even uninterrupted electricity, and without the special knowledge of how these things are done, which the acquisition of would take many years of study, one would be dumb as a rock as far as such things are concerned.

You are defining the sun using your own limited senses.
Is the sun bright because of our sensitive eyes?
Is the rock hard because of our soft hands?
We are observing science in our limited perspective.
Science is Science, we will keep exploring.
We are using man made time and rulers to understand the universe lol

Knowledge is Knowledge. It is due to our own limited senses that we still attribute more to it. “Special, secret, erudite”.
Beauty is beauty, there is no more beautiful, only in our human senses is that.
A scientist should be a scientist, a cobbler should be a cobbler, each having knowledge of their crafts, but there’s nothing in their craft that’s “special” as long as they identify with the name of the craft that’s “scienctist, cobbler”.

budaatum:
Same as the Jesus whom we read was nailed to a cross and stabbed and poisoned and died, lives in spirit I suppose, and as I will live in the spirit of what I have written on Nairaland long after I die and become worm food.

Mayn, you are going to forgive buda. I do not believe crap in any language whatsoever.

We have to be careful of the tale of iesus created by the chrestians as we see in codex sinaitcus

Queen helena is the mother of constantine, she is also a saint In Christianity having “miraculously” found the cross of Iesus chrestus.

budaatum:
If that's what you want to believe, buds will live.

For me, the garden in the east in Eden; where he put the man he had formed can not possibly be paradise where Adam and Eve were naked slaves.

That’s what the hebrew word says, I’ve seen that reading the book in its original language is very helpful.
Hebrew פרדס pardes and Hebrew גן gan, "garden"

budaatum:
Whatever is meant by "Adam will die" if he ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, was clearly a lie since we read how long Adam lived before he did eventually die. Unless you read only one book, of course, and believe Adam and Eve would have lived for ever.

The death that was talked about was the body that the elohim “made”, you see that after the elohim saw that adam and eve are pars now, they cursed them but they could only curse what they “made”, after the curses, see what adam did and said….
They were elohims now, they could not die.

budaatum:
The scientific method, as in how ti use the senses, is the main thing learnt when one studies science. We "know something" by studying it with our senses, as in, by doing science on that thing so that we may fully comprehend it in its aspects.

Physics and chemistry, at the beginning of one's education, is the training of the senses in the methods of physics and chemistry. They do start off with telling one what has been observed, but the outcome of further study is how to observe or one would just believe the physics and chemistry they know without checking the validity of their knowledge, which is clearly not science.

And our senses are limited. We are calculating time using our limited senses and they using the concept of time to understand the universe. This calculation is already wrong already.
The sun is up not because it’s 12pm, the sun is up because it’s supposed to be up regardless if our senses call it 12am.

Physics and chemistry are naturally philosophy, they sit down and study the environment.
Philosophy literally means love of wisdom and nature means “of its own”, by itself.
You get natural philosophy.

There’s no special knowledge anywhere afterall we are acting as persons.

budaatum:
I did not find this in my own Bible. What I found was that after "the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done", only then did "the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. This same Lord then took a rib from the man Adam and formed the female called Eve.

The creation formed in God's image in Genesis 1 is not the same Adam formed from mud in Genesis 2.

https://www.nairaland.com/6795272/reeves-pass

It’s in the hebrew bible called tanakh.

Exactly, “breathe of life”. So when he said eve and adam will die, does that include his own breath of life?
Elohims only “made” the body, they never made the “spirit” which is breathe of life.

The genesis story is a collection of more than 3 books together, the removal of the rib represents the seperation of androgynous man to male and femlae.

budaatum:
Science is a method used to observe and acquire knowledge and not just a thing one observes.

When one learns physics and chemistry and natural philosophy, one doesn't just learn about things, but also learns a method to observe things properly. It's the reason we do scientific experiments. To show how to see what is claimed to have been observed.

No Science means knowledge, maybe you meant scientific method.

We learn things in practical aspect right from the olden days.
Physics and chemistry are what happens in our everyday life, we are discovering it.

budaatum:
The Garden was not Paradise! And there's no way one could conclude that Adam who was created from mud was an image of any God. For starts, he was not allowed to eat the food of the Gods and only farmed it on their behalf, and he was obviously far too stupid to be in the image of a god because he was far too dumb and didn't know how to use his senses until Eve showed him he even had senses.

The garden is paradise, look into the hebrew word used there.


Adam was image of the elohim, like they said, he was created male and female, androgenous.

He was not given any reason, as why he should not eat the fruit, they only threatened him not to eat it.
Immediately they ate it they got their senses, and they “became crafty and they made themselves aprons”.
Eve had only the desire of wisdom, which is what everyone should.

The elohims promised eve and adam all the fruits and foods without wisdom, remember what jesus said, “man shall not live by bread alone”.

budaatum:
We don't "observe science". We do science in order to observe better than the untrained senses with which we observe much less


One would argue he taught people. And the golden law was just one thing he taught amongst many other teachings, use your senses being just one.

Science means knowledge, it’s observed, everyone can use it, physics and chemistry were once called natural philosophy and were taught in the first academy by plato.

budaatum:
Humans never needed a garden (enclosed space), because they were created in God's image to rule over all the earth, and universe, I dare add.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

That said, some humans were afterwards created from mud and were enslaved naked in the garden and those seem to be the majority. It's like they devolved.

The elohim image there properly refers to shadow, even though shadows can assume someone image, it is not the real thing.

All these animals you mentioned were in a garden, and the paradise doesn’t really mean enclosed space as used in hebrew.

budaatum:
And that's why we must train ourselves in the use of the human senses so as to reduce their limitations.

And hence Jesus Christ, who made Christians aware they had senses and taught their use, though one wouldn't agree with that watching many Christians here.

https://www.nairaland.com/6481507/what-clay-mud#100295773

The human senses already has limitations, humans don’t have the best eyesight or the best ears, science deals with observation, so we are observing science in a limited position already.

Jesus Christ didn’t teach any “Christians”, he taught the golden law, “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.

budaatum:
Science is the formal use of the senses to investigate.

In Christianity, the eye (and other senses), are the lamp of the body. If one does not learn the use of the senses, the whole body would be in darkness with the being being unable to comprehend that which is around it.

Eve taught this by using her senses to test if she would die if she ate the forbidden fruit. She lived and freed herself from slavery in Eden and went on to live almost a 1000 years and populated the earth, we read.

And the human senses are very limited.
Eve valued wisdom more than death.

We see in the adam and eve story that the elohims only made the body of them, they didn’t make the spirit, the elohims could only kill the body not the spirit.
The garden was created for the images of elohim, adam and eve are not images anymore, they are now one of the elohims.
They don’t need the garden again, as elohim they can create their own garden.

🧐

Ifajournal:
LOL. Confirm. That is the most important.. Does it work? Does it have the ability to change one's realities?
Definitely it does. it's a journey I invite people to take on.

There was never a time ifa was monotheistic.
Most if not all religions started as polytheistic or henotheism.

Even “monotheistic religions” are only doing branding, what they call “angels” is what polytheists call gods.

Image123:
LoLz, you obviously can't take what you dish out. Clown QED.

You are not even coherent, Jester

vdestro:
We have already finished conparing.

Out of all religions, no cause has killed more people than Christianity.

vdestro:
He did not say they killed because of atheism but that they killed more than religion did.

Since we are comparing them together, he should bring an atheistic cause that killed people than religion.

Do you know hitler even killed atheists?

preciousee17:
Welcome to the thread.

[Strictly from the Christian point of view]

I think a Father who sees His son parading himself as an orphan and doing things that will land him in jail, will try to convince that son that He (the Father) is his Father.

And even if that son ends up in jail and finally decides to recognize the Father and ask for bail... Don't you think the Father will bail him out?

And even after being bailed out. Don't you think it's possible for that son to go astray again (probably after listening to advise from bad friends), and continue parading Himself as an orphan and doing things that will land him in jail.

The cycle could continue forever, the only difference being that Jehovah (who we call God) is more patient and loving than an earthly father... So He'll keep on reaching out to you even when you restrain for so long

Next?

How come the son is parading himself as an orphan in the first place?
What did his parents do to him?
Don’t you think before a kid can do that he must have been abused?

Even if you recognize your father and you do things that will land you in jail you will you still go to jail. Why do you need to convince anyone you are their parents, show them the dna results or proof of it.
Which kind of nursery school analogy be this.

Why does a god want us to believe in him?

Image123:
Olaa is my very good friend and Pastor Kumuyi is his father. You should be apologizing to him for comparing his father to a rapist, in some weird attempt to make a point. You obviously can't take what you dish out. You don't care, you should. At least use that God given brain logically.

That’s olaa problem, I mentioned a pastor not olaa father.
Many people mention the pastor name everyday.

Because you took a pastor as your “father” does that mean you should now abuse my own father?
Why don’t you ask me of a mentor that i also regard as my “father” also.
You and your god are dullards. So if i take tinubu as my “father”, i should be fighting anyone that abuses/criticizes the President?
Kumuyi pikin lol

I hope you don’t have issues with family also

Image123:
Ohhhh, i seeee, poor me. You have issues with the family.
Now was Olaa talking to you or to little reed? Why so emotional? Are you not aware that there are some Christians that rate, love and obey their pastors more than their immediate family? Have you never seen people who don't love or regard their biological parents? Don't you know that Kumuyi is Olaa's father? Why do you have no problem comparing his father's life to a rapist. But you are all teary eyed when i compared my lovely abundant life with your dear mummy's? Stop thinking analogue, use some sense and perspective.

Olaa should tell me that, why are you guessing for him that “some Christians rate their pastors more than their mothers”.

I don’t have a problem with family, i just don’t like it when people can’t take what they dish out.
I hope you don’t have issues with family also

Once again I mentioned a pastor name, I don’t care if he is mentor or not, I didn’t mention his family.

Lol theists killing themselves everyday
https://www.nairaland.com/7742427/respect-prophet-muhammad-sokoto-muslim

Image123:
Your question came out of your anus i presume, better than nowhere.
Whose life do you think is more valuable to me, Kumuyi or the rapist? Whose life is more valuable to you, my life or your mother's? Or is your mom's life not human life? Why do you feel different about your family but you are okay to mention Olaa's mentor whom he might even rever and hold as family? Answer objectively.

i was not talking to you.

Is a mentor the same as family?
Where did I mention olaa family?

Image123:
Are you a lion or you can't read? Whose life do you think is more valuable to me, Kumuyi or the rapist? Whose life is more valuable to you, my life or your mother's?

Are you dumb?
When you replied me out of nowhere, did you know what led to my post?
You were not the one i was replying to.

Kumuyi is not anyone’s family here, I don’t know why you bringing my mother into it.
The family and drink of that rapist will value that rapist live over kumuyi, and they may even be Christians.

You have already proven the point i want.