₦airaland Forum

nannymcphee:
I'm sorry, it works all the time, I hereby join vooks in challenging you:

Please pray away Boko Haram not next week BUT NOW. Or Ebola.!!

Pray away Bad governance instantly, oh man of great faith!!

Luke1:18-20
18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
20 And, behold, thou shalt be dumb, and not able to speak, until the day that these things shall be performed, because thou believest not my words, which shall be fulfilled in their season.

Zach did not believe, did Gods word still come to pass? Mr have great faith!!


When namman was entering the river, Shebi he had great faith?


2kings4
16 And he said, About this season, according to the time of life, thou shalt embrace a son. And she said, Nay, my lord, thou man of God, do not lie unto thine handmaid.
17 And the woman conceived, and bare a son at that season that Elisha had said unto her, according to the time of life.

Shebi this woman was also expressing faith

Let me help you out a little. If God decides to give you a house without you asking him for it, it is his sovereignty at work. Now if you decide to ask God for a house you would require FAITH to get it from him. That's what he said. So now infuse that into your references above and you would learn a thing or two today. For example, Zechariah had faith for a child. It might be little but he did and God obliged his request.

13 But the angel said to him, Do not be afraid, Zachariah, because your petition [k]was heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you must call his name John [God is favorable].

vooks:
Please follow the thrust of Paul's argument;
1. For a Corinthian Christian who doesn't believe in resurrection, the total benefits of knowing Christ are realized under the sun
2. Not everybody is a Christian
3. To empirically test the benefits of salvation IF THERE WERE NO RESURRECTION,we'd need to compare the present state of the ideal Christian with a non-Christian
4. Compared to the rest of the humanity, Christians (at least at that time), fared the worst as a result of their faith and as such, Christianity has no meaning seeing they had nothing on unbelievers.
5. It can ONLY make sense being a Christian if there is MORE to faith than the present life
6. This is why Christians so eagerly believe in the resurrection

Now, if immediate and tangible benefits of Christianity is wealth,health and long life not to mention happiness, Christianity even in absence of resurrection would still be attractive. Paul is just describing how it is not. So mbaemeka and other WOFers, not only are you promising impossible things, you lack the power to deliver and certainly God is not on your side to back up these claims. You are just setting yourself and your ignorant sheeple up for epic disappointments

Gibberish laden diatribe. John and Peter met a man at the beautiful gate. They had an opportunity to tell him about resurrecting to a better life after suffering for 40 long years but guess what they did? They healed him in this life and still told him about the resurrection that is better. You see the man's hope in christ didn't only benefit him in the world to come. It benefited him in this present life!

nannymcphee:
FAITH TO CHANGE YOUR WORLD, that's the title of the teaching, it wasn't a service persay, more like a Talkshow between Pastor & Rev Tom. About 4 vcd's or so

Pastor taught that, the man's statement was that of unbelief & Jesus healed the boy because of the following verse

Mark 9:25
25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.


He healed the boy out of compassion & the folks that were coming to witness Gods healing power!!

How can "Lord, I believe, help my unbelief " be a statement of faith"

If someone believed you could do something will he be asking you "if thou can" isn't that unbelief?

I hope the above answers the second paragraph of your quote!!

There are different levels of faith. One can be described as not having faith when compared to another who had more faith than the former. In your reference Jesus' disciples couldn't heal the boy and when he was asked why Jesus told them that they required more prayer and fasting. Prayer and fasting for what? To augment their faith. You see, everything about God always resorts to faith-from start to finish for the just shall live by faith. Once you walk outside faith you are walking outside God's will and you will not receive.

I know you would ask me for how I got the idea about needing prayers and fasting to augment faith so I would give you one from the Master himself concerning the same situation. Matthew 17

18 And Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of him, and the boy was cured instantly.

19 Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked privately, Why could we not drive it out?

20 He said to them, Because of the littleness of your faith [that is, your lack of [h]firmly relying trust]. For truly I say to you, if you have faith [[i]that is living] like a grain of mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, Move from here to yonder place, and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you

21 [j]But this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting..

Now relate Marks account to Matthews.

Gombs:
So, faith don't always work ie it doesn't work all the time!... hmmmm

Dear Lord Jesus, help my patience, amen

I hadn't seen this post before I replied.

nannymcphee:
If faith works all the time? Why didn't trophimus faith work or why didn't Paul use his own great faith to heal him, rather he left him sick?

Faith doesn't work all the time? Wow.

vooks:
WOF is basically materialism, the other extreme of Christian-wealth relationship. If Christ's plans for Christians is BEST health,wealth and longest life, then in absence of eternity of after-life, Christians ought to be the most enviable people under the sun. But Paul thinks otherwise.

1Cor 15-19 (ESV)
19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.

You are so filled with delusion that you are constipated by it. Paul said if in christ we have hope in this life ONLY we are to be pitied. In otherwords our hope is not only in this life- it is in this life and the one to come. But you would not see this because you typed whimsically and exposed your shallowness again. How sad.

nannymcphee:
I believe there are so many roads that leads to Rome!! ie when faced with a challenge, a Christian has many option to tackle it.

He can pray, fast, worship, praise or a combination etc any can work depending on what he was led by the Holy Spirit to do at that time

BUT to say that one can get instant result as a result of one's great faith in all situations is something I will not agree to!!

There is nothing that suggest from the scriptures that Hezekiah got instant result because he had great faith(rather it was Gods mercy at work & the way he wanted things to go)

Where then is the instantness in "intercessory prayers"?

I asked earlier on, the bible shows that Hanah's family went up yearly & I'm sure(even though it wasn't stated) that she went to the temple to pray or at least have been praying year to year

was it just the recorded one that made God answer her prayers?

If yes, does it mean she didn't have faith in all her previous prayers?

As shown from scripture how men defied the laws of nature(Jesus walking on water, his ascension, Philips transportation, the sun being set back etc) I also believe the same can happen in the life of a Christian, YES his faith can make this happen but it's more of Gods mercy & Sovreignity!!

the foundation of this teaching lies in the diety of man & how he can get what he wants & when he wants it, so long as he has the God kind of faith

This teaching is dangerous because God has been left out of the picture, his will has been left out(there is a teaching out there that says praying according to the will of God is praying in the name of Jesus, what's the meaning of this? anything I ask in the name of Jesus with great faith will be granted?)

Hope you get the thrust of my post

Mercy, kindness la dida is God's response to faith. You clearly need to go back and restudy what faith is so you don't keep on confusing yourself. What many (like the teachers that confused you) say about the will of God or his sovereignty is often misappropriated and misapplied and you as a result of such confusion have misapplied your understanding to the word of God.

You see, such talk about "If it is God's will it will happen and if not it will not happen" or "God is sovereign:he does what he likes" may sound reasonable based on what you think you see but that is not what God's word says. Gombs has already mentioned it to you and I would do so again for emphasis. James 1

6 Only it must be in faith that he asks with no wavering (no hesitating, no doubting). For the one who wavers (hesitates, doubts) is like the billowing surge out at sea that is blown hither and thither and tossed by the wind.

7 For truly, l[b]et not such a person imagine that he will receive anything [he asks for] from the Lord[/b],

8 [For being as he is] a man of two minds (hesitating, dubious, irresolute), [he is] unstable and unreliable and uncertain about everything [he thinks, feels, decides].

Well, James said I should tell you and your teachers that if you ask God for anything [in this case wisdom] and then you conclude that if he wills it he would give it to you and if he doesn't he won't, that you are NOT walking in FAITH and will NOT receive anything from God. So miss me with your sovereignty talk again.

paulGrundy:
Besides that he writes as though he recieves the revelation directly from God. Authoritativly, domineering as though the posts are addressed to thousands.

They both write alike, my eyes are on nlmediator too. Even winsomex/Drummaboy cannot stand the wisdom his posts exhumes.

I have been around, just that want to be on low key. I trust you are fine.

Smiling ear to ear at this post. I am thoroughly convinced by the word of God even though I am still a student. God's spirit also teaches me by showing me things directly or by sending me to others-even on NL! I think what helps me is the strong desire to put to practice all that I have learnt from the word. That to me, is where the true Christianity lies! That's why I admire those who like me, have dared to believe God and most of the WOF or WOF-related Pastors come to mind.

Watch out for those who argue with the clearly written words of the bible. Most of them are simply playing lipservice on NL- Body of Esau but voice of Jacob. They don't really believe the word for if they did they would have had at least some experiences to prove that indeed the word is true or reverence for those who have had a deluge of such experiences. John called them unbelieving believers and Jesus likened them to Pharisees that place heavy loads on people while they themselves will not lift a pin.

On another note, If I have the holy spirit of God in me I do not think someone can successfully deceive me for 2 years let alone over a decade. If the holy spirit in me let me get deceived for such a long time then I might need to recheck that he is truly the spirit of God!

nannymcphee:
L

Was the instant reply a function of his great faith or Gods sovereignty?

His faith caused God to suspend his sovereignty

nannymcphee:
Hezekiah getting an instant harvest was a function of his faith abi ?

what happened to Hannah, hasn't she been praying all those years? So the recorded act of her making a vow to God, that brought Samuel was the one that she had great faith abi?

When David prayed & fasted, yet his child died. Didn't he have strong faith to have a harvest?

Paul thorn nko(whatever that torn might have been). Didn't Paul have great faith to cause a change?

Nlmediator and Gombs have answered you appositely but I just thought to add this: Does sovereignty not mean that God can do whatever he likes whether we have faith or not? Which means that sovereignty and faith are mutually exclusive except like Bidam said "you do not understand what faith is" (paraphrasing him).

God in all his sovereignty said if we asked anything in faith he will bring it to pass. The bible expressly states that one cannot get anything from God without faith. So whether someone cried for days and received, or they fasted for days and received it only means that their acts of crying or fasting were interpreted as faith to God. Are we on track thus far?

Let us examine another instant miracle and we can see how your definition of time factors into it.

Matthew 8:10,13
10 When Jesus heard him, He marveled and said to those who followed Him [who adhered steadfastly to Him, conforming to His example in living and, if need be, in dying also], I tell you truly, I have not found [b]so much faith as this [c]with anyone, even in Israel.
13 Then to the centurion Jesus said, Go; it shall be done for you as you have believed. And the servant boy was restored to health at that very [d]moment.

2 things to learn from this:

1. Jesus interpreted the centurions request for an instant "harvest" to be great faith that he had not seen even amongst the disciples that walked with him. Meaning it takes great faith to expect something now and not project it into the future.

2. The servant boy was healed Instantly! And Jesus said it happened like that because it was "as the man believed".

So the mocking questions you were trying to ask are either unnecessary or borne out of confusion. I am tilting towards both.

Yooguyz:
I dunno why I keep having this feeling that the handle behind the moniker mbaemeka is a prominent Pastor in Nigeria.

Very thoughtful of you to feel so bro. But I am not even a Pastor let alone a prominent one. Any similarities with any prominent Pastor you know will most likely be purely coincidental but then again the bible says when the Pharisees saw how confident and knowledgeable Peter and co were, (considering that they were unlearned men), they took note concerning them that they had been with Jesus.

Mark 11:12-14 MSG

As they left Bethany the next day, he was hungry. Off in the distance he saw a fig tree in full leaf. He came up to it expecting to find something for breakfast, but found nothing but fig leaves. (It wasn’t yet the season for figs.) He addressed the tree: “No one is going to eat fruit from you again—ever!” And his disciples overheard him.

vooks:
Do you also subscribe to this BS of Jesus cursing and killing a tree for no fault of its own?

When the lord of Harvest comes to ask you what you have done with the talents he gave you. Please tell him it was not your time of harvest/ season to be fruitful etc. Let us hear his response to you.

Proverbs 11:11 MSG

When right-living people bless the city, it flourishes; evil talk turns it into a ghost town in no time.

Proverbs 11:11 KJV

By the blessing of the upright the city is exalted: but it is overthrown by the mouth of the wicked.

vooks:
So Nigeria needs mbaemeka faith to fast track to first world? And the reason it hasn't is because he is Faith incarnate in a sea of negativity,invectives and so-called mixture? Smh
We have a convenient explanation for EVERY conceivable scenario. Pray and recieve instantly? That's Harvest. Pray and it delays 5 years? That's your level of faith. Pray and don't recieve? You had no faith or others pulled you down with their 'negativity,invectives and so-called mixture'. That's godess mbaemeka's utopia; he has more excuses than results. In fact excuses are his staple and of course this is pearl that shouldn't be thrown to swine for they will trod it underfoot
The reason The Trouble With Nigeria is as fresh as if it has just been penned is your escapist thinking and advanced PhD in excuses

Some of us actually quote scriptures when we talk. We don't just mouth off whatever balderdash that pops into our minds.

.....and yes Hezekiah got an instant harvest. This is just off the top. I am sure you would find many if you only studied properly.

As long as the earth remains seedtime and harvest will not cease- God.

Which means the Harvest is not always predicated by time unlike seeds. I believe God's word.

nannymcphee:
At the point A & B got their healing, wasn't it "time" so what the fuss about no time being tied to harvest or harvest time??

Keep deluding yourself that all seeds sown(prayer, finances, time, love etc) can be harvested NOW, if one has great faith

The church didn't have faith when they prayed against Bokoharam?

so there wasn't one Christian with great faith that could sow seeds of prayer against Bokoharam at its incipient stage to have stopped it then?

Ebola nko, the kidnappings going on nko, what about the robberies? Bad governance nko? Haven't Christians been praying about all of these things? yet none had great faith to harvest an instant harvest of peace & health

showme someone who sowed anything in scriptures & reaped immediately(even the Hebrew hallmark of faith doesn't have any)

God wasn't put into the equation, it's just the individual's faith that is the determinant

Time didn't always exist! If you read the book of Genesis you would see when God created time. So God doesn't exist in time it is us humans that do. In God's mind there is no time. When a man asks God for A that was exactly when the man got it (but this is the truth that many like you are oblivious of). So the same man can wait till 5 years later and then say that was when God gave him the answer but that is untrue because God doesn't live in time. That's why Mr A can get a healing immediately and Mr B will wait for 5 years to get the same miracle.

Oh! If you could understand this you would know why that statement "Your miracle is on the way" is unnecessary. That miracle anyone desires can be instant but because of this wanton mixture of information many (even Christians) have subjected God to time and it is reflected in their prayers.

As per why the Bokoharam menace and what not haven't ceased since we began praying I have 2 things to say. The menace has stopped where I exist and I can only imagine what Nigeria will be like if other christians thought like me. In any case we are getting there. Secondly, with all the negativity, invectives and so-called mixtures concerning Nigeria it is not hard to see why we seem to be taking forward and backward steps. Moses faced the same issue with the children of Israel when they left Egypt. Moses will say A and they will ask for B. God will say 'say A' and the Israelites will be saying B that they learnt from Egypt. The bible says UNPERSUADABLENESS was their problem. It is the same with Nigerians today including some so-called Christians.

We would still be praying for them.

nannymcphee:
this was an excerpt from my earlier submission:



So Gombs, from the bolded, I can sow seeds of prayer, money & hard work etc & also determine when i will reap the harvest! only if i have a "high level of faith"

Wake up please!! It's time to start examining what you profess

You used a car as an example. Who am I to question such a level of faith? Same way Martha and Mary had FAITH that Lazarus will be resurrected on THE LAST DAY but Jesus (having greater faith than they) compressed the time and brought Lazarus back in the present.

Mr A can pray for a healing and expect to get healed on the bye and bye. 5 years later he notices all symptoms gone and he praises God. Mr B prays for a healing and expects it now. He sees the symptoms shrivel immediately and he praises God. Both Got their harvest but the time was not set.

Faith doesn't say I WILL get something from God. Hope says so. Faith gets it now. Faith is higher than time and that's why God said seedtime and harvest will always remain.

vooks:
excellent submission.

Now what you dread the most, thinking

1. What proof do you have that the famine persisted the many years since you are flagrantly presenting this as a fact?
2. What proof do you have that the Philistines envied him in the SAME year he received a bountiful harvest?

Verse 13 (KJV) And the man waxed great, and went forward, and grew until he became very great: 14 For he had possession of flocks, and possession of herds, and great store of servants: and the Philistines envied him

Animals have a gestation period running into months, their multiplication however miraculous still obeys natural Laws. This means the increase in the flock necessarily implies Isaac's prosperity took more than one year oga

1. The bible says it was the same land. So the only thing that changed from vs 1-12 was the years past.

2. Vs12 was connected to Vs' 13 and 14. He became very great- in the same year- the Philistines envied. If not so, they should have sown in the same land like he was doing instead of envy him for his seemingly insurmountable success.

Candour,

Genesis 10:19 NLT

and the territory of Canaan extended from Sidon in the north to Gerar and Gaza in the south, and east as far as Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, near Lasha.

Besides, I used a Map to take my position. You can readily check one online.

nannymcphee:
We have left "seed time" & "harvest", its now famine!!

First things first, Gombs why did the bible say seedtime & harvest(without time) ?

mbaemeka, care to join?

LambanoPeace, also comment because you started the whole thing!

The bible clearly states that as the earth remains seedtime and harvest will not cease. Most interesting of this is that God almighty was being quoted in that instance.

Men by studying the trends (like they studied the weather) came up with the notion that there is a time to sow and a time to harvest (Solomon et al) and by natural laws that is true BUT it was not God who said there was a time for HARVEST, men did.

When Jesus came into the scene he expected that the fig tree produced fruits EVEN THOUGH he knew that it was the time for the Harvest. Jesus by doing so showed us God's way of seeing the HARVEST which is, that to GOD it doesn't come at any set time but at the time that he wants it to come. The introduction of time to Harvest is therefore man's invention. Another example will be Elijah and the drought. Elijah asked Rain to cease and it did for 3 years (regardless of the season of rain and dryness) and when he prayed again the rain came down (regardless of the same seasons or time). Gideon also did that when he stopped time by praying that the sun stood still till the war ended. He didn't wait for the TIME of night to come before another day. In other words, he chose when the HARVEST of (in this case 'the sun') was to come. He didn't wait for it.

In the same vein the Harvest mustn't always come at a set time. It could just come when exactly you want it to and it takes radical faith to actuate it.

Caveat: the seed in question must not always be money. It could be seed of prayer, seed of acting faith, seed of working hard, seed of patience etc.

Candour,

You are right about Genesis 26 but I would show you a few discrepancies and by so doing maybe answer the questions directed at me.

1. Abraham and Isaac lived in Canaan as you said but Canaan was a very big region that encompassed Sidon to the north and then Gerar to the south. This region was governed by kings called Abimelechs.

2. When a famine arose in Canaan (as a whole) residents decided to migrate to Egypt. Abraham did so earlier on and Isaac wanted to follow suit in his time.

3. God stopped him while he was in Gerar (still south of Canaan) and God told him to remain in the land.

4. The land in question has to still be the same (whole land I.e Canaan or even still Gerar) and in any case the famine encompassed the whole region in Canaan.

5. The land in vs 1 of chapter 26 had to still be the land in vs 3 and had to still be in vs 12 as the writer made reference to 'that land' and in any case still it suggests that the famine still lingered.

6. The many years past as suggested by vs 8 was there to show that Isaacs lie that Rebecca was his sister didn't go unremembered by the King and his cronies. Years ago Isaac claimed the woman to be his sister but presently they saw him frolicking with her. That's why Abimelech asked him that question 'are you sure she's your sister?'. The many years doesn't mean the famine had stopped.

Summarily, Isaac wanted to head to Egypt to seek better pastures so as he drifted from the south of Canaan (Gerar) as though on his way to Egypt( the regions are close), God stopped him on his track and told him to remain in the land as he will be blessed there. Isaac obeyed and lived blessed despite the famine. Years later (and even in spite of the famine) he worked hard (by sowing) in the same barren land YET he reaped a large harvest in the same year that caused the Philistines to envy him (their envy also alludes to the fact that they too sowed but didn't reap as he did).

My take.

Bro Gombs and Bidam. I am happy you saw him evading the questions that turned his illogicalities on its head. I told you he doesn't know scriptures yet he would be the first to speak. Very similar with the serial monicker changer. How any bible student could not tell that you were referring to Isaac just shows what we have to contend with.

As per the *coughs* others. Don't cast all your pearls to swine o! Not everyone will understand at the same pace. Jesus told his disciples repeatedly that he would resurrect but guess what they did on the 3rd day- they went to embalm his body. Which means they still expected him to be dead regardless of how many times he told them that he would raise his temple.

I assure you what is happening here is a foundation school. Many will go back to proof-read the contradictions they always held unto as truth. Also be wary about those who say "he was referring to Jews here, he was referring to accusers there" but when Jesus was teaching about tithes in Matthew 23 the same group will ignore that he started by saying "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" and then claim that he was under the law then. At the end of the day they will call you a thief for giving tithes and then use other gospel books to call you names, forgetting that when Jesus taught most of what he said, Jews, accusers and Pharisees were part of the same audience.

Very funny things I tell you.

Bro Gombs, you are generous. I won't have bothered glorifying his ignorance with a reply. Someone that said Jesus used the word 'Power' only twice in the bible and even claimed that in both of such times he never referred to miracles but when he was found out he claimed it was typo or one of such utter nonsensical responses he gave. Or is it the same person that called speaking in tongues mysticism or the same ignoramus that said faith is mentally assenting to an idea?

When mbaemeka whether by divination or meditation or hallucination makes outrageous claims, expect me to wave it in his face and I don't expect him or anybody else to be ashamed. He has claimed to be a goD and I have thoroughly tested that claim. Why is it a big deal if I refer him as goD? vooks is no goD but a mere man and I would be insane to throw tantrums over being called a man. Next ludicrous claim is that EXCEPT/UNLESS he consents to Jesus plans to take him home, he ain't goin nowhere. So the only thing standing between him and immortality is his consent .

Dear Misdirected groupie,

I know you convulse any time I fail to reply all the mentions you give me in a day. I would have felt the same way if I was this infatuated about a faceless moniker on NL. I would have loved to keep throwing the occasional jabs with you and reminding you of your numerous goofs, chief of which would be "Jesus didn't take his blood to the most holy place in heaven and there is nothing like without shedding of blood there is no remission of sins" but I would be dumbing myself down to engage with you. Unlike you, and the idiotic way you employ strawman's, figments of your poor imagination and facetious hyperboles, I am willing to discuss what I believe from the bible with copious references to buttress them. While I am certain that you may not agree with my interpretations (majorly because you are an ignoramus- scripturally and otherwise), you would not be able to gainsay that the words will be written in black and white for even someone with your level of intelligence to comprehend.

YES, I am a GOD. I am not a GOD over GOD neither am I one over my fellow men. But I am a GOD over the Devil, his cohorts and his works. I am a GOD over the principles and elements that this fallen world is governed by and I make no apologies for it. If you take me up on this (and I am in the mood) I would teach you from the scriptures and expect your pusillanimity to rear its very ugly bighead. Sadly, I cannot say the same for you and most of those of your ilk (the ilk of the misinformed). You offer no alternatives and like hypocritical yet ignorant churls, you insist that something is wrong because it is wrong and not because you know what is right. You are the one's who freely express how satan is the GOD of this world and even quote the scriptures that suggest so but I do not see you ask the bible or the devil himself how many planets he has created, yet when I say I am satan's God you start asking me moronic (borrowing your own words) questions like how many planets I have created. All such reasoning only betrays you for who you really are-a scripturally handicapped troll and I would do well to avoid you.

FYI I am not irked that you call me goD or what not. As you can see, I have gone many steps ahead of you by capitalizing the 'god' so you can ride on with your off-color jokes and snide remarks. What I do not appreciate is the endless mentions and lies like alleging that I said Jesus will have to Kneel and BEG for my consent to take me home or like the other failed writer and blogger claimed that "my life's motto is to be anywhere the money is" this is after I said true spiritual maturity entails submitting to the will of God and how that money follows me wherever I go.

I know you both have the memory of a formatted Z2 so I would try to do the impossible, by re-quoting myself for the sake of posterity and somehow hoping you both grasp what I said.

Jesus is with the keys of hell and of death now and for us Christians he reserves the right to call us home. Yet he doesn't do it without our consent (he is that kind).

My location: anywhere the money is

So if you want to quote me, you should at least do so exactly without forcing my posts to say what you want it to say after all, I am responsible for what I say and not how you choose to interpret it. Knowing who you are I expect you to evade all I have said and then ask me to show you where you claimed Paul rebuked Peter in Galatia. I have done so before and I would so again for posterity's sake:

Does it bother you that Paul had no qualms publicizing this event long after it occurred to the Galatia commoners?

Your exact words ^^^^ and I was even courteous enough by telling you to rephrase the above thus:

"Does it bother you that Paul had no qualms publicizing this event to the Galatia commoners long after it occurred in Antioch

Now I expect you to ignore your own quote and then wait for the next 2 pages to pass before you resume asking me for the same post and claiming that I lied against you.

PS: Thanks to Bidam and Lordreed for vindicating me. Special thanks too to Image123 for impartially yet rightfully interpreting my posts. What more can I say about brother Gombs? God bless you all real good.

trustman:
A 'Principle' has to do with some rule or law or similar thing.
Any principle to be derived for the Christian way of life should
have a strong backing in the epistles which like Hagin said:
" So to me, the Epistles are a little bit extra special. I feel as though their teaching has great relevance to us today who are members of the Body of Christ. I've always found the teaching of the Epistles to be right to the point, clear, and unmistakable."

Paul quoted the OT when he talked about Children honoring their parents with gifts but even if he did not say so it would have been an eternal principle. Nobody needs to say "thou shalt honor thy parents" in the NT before we observe such a principle. A principle is not a law.

trustman:
Old Sin Nature at work!!
Perfect example!
Always there; needs to be constantly kept in check.
If we say we have no sin nature ... ...

You will derail this thread again. Romans 8

9 But you are not living the life of the flesh, you are living the life of the Spirit, if the [Holy] Spirit of God [really] dwells within you [directs and controls you].

The Christian is NOT living in the flesh. Period. What affected me was my mind that requires more renewing

Candour:
and we must also remember that Isaac wasn't actually the first fruits of Abraham's loins and God never referred to him as such

I meant it in the sense that Isaac was Abraham's "best". But I understand you.

This is still your assumption. There's nothing in scripture or recorded history to say pagans hadn't engaged in giving the first of their substance to their gods before God appeared to Abraham.

Okay. The point I was also trying to make is that they were aware of the principle.

The simple fact is that God permits all that happens, whether good or bad because he's given man freewill. God doesn't respect Human sacrifice. His word is totally against it. What stopped the combined army was the great indignation that arose. It could have come from some evil spirits that the abominable sacrifice brought up and scared Israel and its allies or it could have come from the army of Judah and Edom against the Israeli contingent. It could also have come from the Israelites themselves at the horrifying thought of confronting a desperate man who had just burnt his heir apparent in the fire. The fact is that Israel departed the battlefront. The bible didn't say they were defeated or that God favored Moab over Israel because a pagan king offered his son as burnt sacrifice. Even if the devil decided to favour Moab, if Isreal didn't depart, they would have gone on to total victory even if the King burns himself to death.

We don't need to debate on the trivial aspects. God accepted the sacrifice of his human son. Also whatever made them turn back and thereby cause God's promise to be unfulfilled was the man's sacrifice. The scriptures clearly tell us that. I didn't say God favored Moab or that Israel were defeated. I said God's prophecy was not fulfilled and it was not unconnected with Mesha's sacrifice. I personally believe it is easier to accept that God respected Mesha's sacrifice than to concede that his own god did it for him or that Israel became horrified into "unfulfilling" God's word which some watered-down translations seem to assert. But it doesn't matter, Mesha got what he most probably wished for- the end of the war against his people.

vooks:
Did Calvin teach that blood comes from the mother and not the father?
If he did, I would not call that boneheaded since he was hundreds of years behind us. You on the other hand, are only fit for parroting garbage with eloquent incoherence. The saving grace is you are not alone, Pat Robertson recently claimed that you can catch Aids by using towels in Africa, Uganda or something

Unfortunate children you have. I would pray for them this night. As per your memory Let me just leave it at that.

vooks:
mbaemeka,
Here is a snippet from John Wenham's Easter Enigma;
http://www.graceelgin.org/documents/EasterEnigma2.pdf

I would have mailed you my copy but the book I bought back in 2004 was destroyed when my house flooded. Water ran out and I left some taps opened, I came back in the evening only to find my house with about 5 centimeters of water. I lost my beloved Enigma but I narrowly escaped electrocution.

Remember you don't harmonize Jesus' birth with Malachi's Elijah just because they are separated by a mere leaf, you harmonize related accounts or events. Puny brains easily overheat. Watch out

I couldn't get a yawning emoticon so please manage this

vooks:
I give it to you for being ahead of me in spinning yarns to cover your lies. Why it don't surprise me is because it is the norm at CE. They lied about the impending divorce until it could not be hid. Did you ever pray that the marriage fail not? How could you when all those were lies of lucifer?

I can assure you that you will grow old but growing up am not sure.
Where and when did I claim that Paul rebuked Peter in Galatia?

*ignored*

Candour:
No wahala then. It was his personal decision and i can't quarrel with that but i still wonder what he gave as first fruits offering since he affirmed that first fruits in the new testament had nothing to do with financial giving or money. It means he was engaged in something he knew to be redundant to a christian.

Yes the word firstfruit as used in NT never referred to financial giving or money. That's all his statement meant. He was saying so to debunk the claim that giving firstfruits is a doctrine in Christianity. BUT the principle of firstfruits (as giving money or produce/livestock) is replete in the OT and one can practice it without being coaxed to do so. Hagin did exactly that- with money. Same way some CEO decided to give 90% of his income to his church and he told many people that it was the source of his great wealth. Of course, it is not a doctrine. But the CEO practiced it regardless.

@the bolded, you're not exactly correct. once again Hagin helped us by listing the various instances of first fruits in the NT and only the one referencing Christ can be said to be about first and best. For the others, even if the ''first'' in the ''first fruits'' indicates first of course, there's nothing to indicate first means best. see them again with my comments in blue

I saw the comments in blue and I think it is misapplied to the import of my posts. If a Farmer's first tuber of yam isn't so bulky he may decide to wait and offer the biggest or bulkiest which he may interpret as his best. It's all about the principle. Saying that "Does this mean the first fruits in a believers life is the best he can ever get?" or "Does it mean these first people to believe are the best of that location?" to me, is OP. If my first salary is $12,000 and I offer it as my firstfruit and the following year I am raised to say $15,000 it has become my new best and I can decide to offer it whole or give the increase. That's my understanding.

the Abraham and Isaac issue makes no allusion or takes any resemblance to the idea of first fruits. He was an only Son and that was the basis for asking for him to see if Abraham could stomach the loss.

Well, that's exactly why the principle applies here- because Isaac wasn't the only son Abraham had. God even had to add the caveat "the one that you love" because I am sure Papa Abraham would have offered Ismael without flinching

@the bolded is purely your own conjecture. It has no basis in scripture or History. Human sacrifice had been a part of pagan history before Abraham was asked to offer Isaac. Moab sacrifices children in the fire because Molech desires it and God warned Israel against it with promises of dire consequences (Lev 18:21, Lev 20:2-5). They didn't learn that abominable practice from Israel.

Again you missed the point I was trying to make. The Moabites learnt the principle of FIRSTFRUITS and not human sacrifice. Moab could have offered "any" of his sons but the bible says he offered his first; the one who would have replaced him as king. He offered his best!

@the first bolded, are you telling me God accepts human sacrifice? If you say God respected the man's offering, it means you believe God accepted it. If God refused to carry out his promise to the Israelites because he respected or accepted Mesha's offering, is it not possible that Israel could have had the full promise fulfilled if they could match or exceed this dangerous and abominable offering of this pagan king?

I didn't say God accepts human sacrifice. God respects/permits sacrifices of all kinds without necessarily accepting them. Someone can give his manhood to a native doctor as a ritual for wealth and become very wealthy. Of course, the man didn't offer his manhood to God but if God didn't prevent the man from getting the wealth we can say he permitted it. I am not even considering the situation were a christian is put into the equation and by that I mean: if a christian and a pagan are vying for a job and both of them study equally hard for it but the christian prays to God and gets the word that he will be successful while the pagan decides to "donate" his mother to his deity and gets the go ahead from his Dibia, and at the end of the day the pagan gets the job can't we conclude that God permitted the pagan's sacrifice? That seems like the only logical conclusion.

Do you disagree with it?

The commentary is neither here nor there as he seems pusillanimous to assert the obvious fact which is: that whatever permutations we give to the scenario it is clear that God's promise about delivering the city to Israel wasn't fulfilled and that this happened at the sacrifice of the Moabite king should not be equally overlooked.

I'm simply against making it a doctrine for Christians. You've already said you don't agree with it being preached as a christian doctrine so i guess we are good

I agree.

vooks:
Calvin was a great man, you should read his Institutes some day. He had the character and brains, it would b highly offensive to his legacy calling you Calvin or Calvinist. What you clearly are is a an arrogant shameless liar who has actually beaten Satan the father of lies in his game of accusing our brethren. I pray you grow out of it as you mature. I badly hope it is a teenage proclivity

Boring and disjointed. Even your memory is nothing to write home about. You already called me a calvinist or do you require the same verbatim quote again? And even after I show it to you, you would keep asking me the same questions like a jilted troll. Groupie.

vooks:
I apologize to all intelligent primates for confusing you for one of them
You have ZERO evidence on BabaGnoni and your imaginary Eve-sex romping reason being NL was hacked
You have ZERO evidence on on your Paul-rebuked-Peter-in-Galatia reason being I edited' it out but not before you 'quoted' me yet still you don't have the quote
Gombs beats you in offering a half-hearted apology when cornered, otherwise you are all small boys in your thinking. It is sad that human traditions have reduced you into this; unintelligent petty liars.
Once again, when and where did I claim that Paul rebuked Peter in Galatia?
Burden of proof remains on the one making the allegation not me but I had noted that WOFers especially the moronic ones have a tendency of attempting to shift this responsibility to those who question them

I was 100 steps ahead of you again as usual. I never referred to you as an intelligent being of any sort. I feel for the people who work for you (if we can go by anything you say). You cannot make an honest penny in your entire God-forsaken life.