₦airaland Forum

vooks: mbaemeko will never fall sick except occasionally and he will only die when he consents meaning he can theoretically live to be 800 years young. What an insult to all those martyrs!

Don't be a churl, you guys asked me why some people who believe what I believe still fall sick at times. Then I asked you why some Christians still sin if Christ has taken away all their sins. The reason for the question is to show you that someone's shortcoming doesn't negate the truth of the gospel. For example, I don't say because I asked for a healing 'In the name of Jesus' and someone didn't receive, then the name has ceased to work. That's what you and your ilk do and it is only tantamount to spiritual confusion.

As per the Martyrs, did they die because life was hard and they lived in such precarious times or were they killed because they were Christians?

Think well before responding. You know what happened the last time you had typing-diarrhoea? The evidence is still very much around.

shdemidemi: What is the bone of contention here! Isn't it to prove Jesus had a unique flesh? I am disparaging the flesh you and i carry today because it has been made faulty from birth due to the engine(spirit) that propels it.
Difference
========
The end of my flesh and your flesh is the dust, the end of Jesus' flesh is to glory.

Your flesh and my flesh was tainted by sin even before it became conscious of the act; Jesus' flesh was never tainted by any form of sin- before and after.

similarities
=======
Jesus died in the flesh, you will also die in the flesh

Jesus felt all the physical mutilations just as you would feel it in your flesh

your argument
========
Both flesh are susceptible to sin -

my take
======
I say lets make do with the facts we have and leave those we don't. One flesh sins because there is a root cause, a fault transferred genetically. The other flesh did not sin because there was no such maladjustment with the root or the source.




I believe common sense can help us here. If the unregenerate spirit dies, what happens- a new spirit is re-generated.

're' is a prefix, it is used when something that had happened before happens again. It indicates repetition.

I asked you to check the meaning of kainos- I doubt if you did.

See Mark 16:17- Jesus said
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues

This prophecy came in to fruition in Acts 2:4, but was it exactly new tongues as the english meaning of 'new' depict?

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.


These languages were new and different to the speakers quite alright, but not in the sense that they have never been heard before to the hearers.

Apply the use of new(kainos) here to what we become when our dead spirit that was once alive is brought back to life anew.

Thrash again and please leave speaking in tongues out of it because you don't understand it neither do you walk in the gift okay? If I show you something that you overlooked in reading that passage of scripture it would generate into a new topic that is a derailment from the purpose of this thread okay? Good.

The spirit of the born again man is not Re-generated. Let that sink in. The born again man received a new Spirit while the old one disappeared. That's what the bible says in clear terms.

Also, get the point I am passing through well so you can understand who a man is. A man is not his flesh or body. His flesh or body is his abode. Paul said the life 'I' live in the flesh showing us that there is an 'I' living in the 'flesh' therefore the 'I' is not the 'flesh'.

So when I said Jesus had the same flesh with us it is because he did given that he was born by an earthly woman. But unlike all other men born into this world Jesus was born with a RIGHTEOUS SPIRIT that lived in a mortal flesh. That's why he was unique apart from also having 'divine' blood. Other men on the otherhand were born with an UNRIGHTEOUS SPIRIT to live in a mortal flesh. That's why we need to be born again I.e to receive a brand new spirit- the same one Jesus has. That's why Paul said if any man is in christ he IS (not going to become) a new creation. If it was the flesh that became new we would have seen it evidently. If it was the soul we would have lost all the things that constituted the soul e.g the mind and we would have had a new one, but that is not the case. So we know what became new was the spirit within the flesh.

That's why we are now to re-new the mind by feeding it with the word of God (accurately) while we now subject the mortal flesh to obey our new spirit (the one that is now one with the Holy Spirit). This is what walking in the spirit entails.

shdemidemi: Who are the sick as far as God is concerned today? I believe the sick are those who have not come to the knowledge of salvation and not some one using prescribed glasses because of eye disorder.

I like the emphasized- 'were'.

If they were healed, why build schools or try to advertise shows on t.v to attract people who had already been healed? In your heart of heart, do you really think those that are attracted by such adverts are there for the Word or for the bread?

Could it be that the definition of heal according to Peter as been misunderstood or deliberately misconstrued by the pseudo healers today?

Could 'heal' which is the same as 'made whole' be referring to physical treatment or could it be that it was used figuratively of spiritual healing.

Could this healing be the same as the healing Paul spoke about in Acts of Apostles-
Acts 28:27
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Absolute thrash! The reason Peter said by whose stripes ye 'were' healed is because like Christ's death (and remission of sins) it has already occurred. What we are asked to do is to proclaim it to people.

When you preach to someone to accept the gospel of Jesus do you tell them to receive the gospel so that God would 'forgive' them or do you tell them to accept the 'forgiveness' of sin that Christ's death has already achieved for them? That's the same way you tell them that God has also done something about their physical diseases or sicknesses if they have any. It is the same gospel Paul preached that had a physically crippled man in Lystra develop faith to be Physically HEALED. In fact, there is nothing like a spiritual healing. God didn't heal our spirits- he gave us a brand new one.

This is the true gospel!

shdemidemi: ,

The bold led me to ask



I expected you to tell us what the soul is and what the mind is, and if they are the same but to my surprise, I got this-


Ignoring how and where soul was used in scripture, the soul has its primary meaning. Please help with the primary meaning of the soul.

Tell us if it is the same as the mind- 'it is the same or it is not the same' answer should do here.

Tell us what the mind is if it isn't the same as the soul.

Please don't mumble everything together, A simple and unequivocal/unambiguous answer in your words will sure suffice.

Sorry if I speak too high. There are 2 words used as heart in the bible but not both refer to the organ for pumping blood. So if someone defines the heart of man as used in scriptures to refer to his spirit you don't show him the word for the organ and say what is it doing in the bible. Do you understand?

What I mean is, because there is a word nous in greek for 'mind' doesn't mean that the word psuche wasn't sometimes used in referring to the mental, emotional and thought-conceiving aspect of man. That's why I went on to give you the definition of the word nephesh in hebrew that was also translated to greek as psuche both meaning "life", "desires", "thoughts", "mind", "emotional energy" etc. And I gave corroborating scriptures to back it. For example, when Jesus said what shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own 'soul' he used the word translated psuche in greek to mean life in that context. In some other passage, Paul used psuche to instead refer to one's mental desire to get something done.

In all the cases used in the bible from the OT to the NT we can see that the soul is NEVER referred to as the real man but only as an aspect of His Spirit (which is the real man).

shdemidemi: step up your game guvnor!

biology tells us how reproduction works- sperm and egg and what have you.

The child has no life in the mother's womb, the child breathe through the mother. If the mother dies, the child automatically dies. There is no Spirit there, no God there.

God waits for the child just when the mother push the child out; that breath of life is suddenly blown through the nostrils of the child to breathe independently of the mother. That breath makes the child physically alive but spiritually dead because of the infirmity in the flesh.

Adam passes his sinful and distorted genes that make up the flesh and not his spirit.



We all sinned in Adam, be it when we were still in him or outside him. In God's dictionary Adam and Eve are one and not two.

The message of Christianity expects every one to admit they are sinners, not because they told a lie or killed somebody else but because they become part of the sin Adam committed. When we admit this, we can then embrace the gospel of propitiation by Christ for the benefit of all who believe.

It is only when a man's spirit leaves his body that he is considered dead. James 2:26 teaches exactly that. I wonder what or how you guys study. Jesus said it is the spirit that gives life, the flesh doesn't profit anything. Why? Because the flesh can do nothing without the spirit. Geez.

Vooks or BabaGnoni or whatever he calls himself these days should stop mentioning me in his posts. If he wants my attention he should follow the right means and I just might oblige him. It is not my fault that he thinks Eve slept with a serpent or that medical science has replaced the name of Jesus to the church. It is also not my fault that he doesn't understand God's word and interacting with me has exposed him thus far. He should stop using underhand tactics to force me to teach him. If he just asks politely I might teach him.

Good going bro Gombs. Been reading in 3D!

shdemidemi: What is the soul?
Is the soul really your mind?
soul is psuche in greek and mind is nous- please check and revert back with your findings.

The soul of man is often confused with the spirit but they are not the same. The spirit of a man has a soul while they are housed in the body. The soul of a man is the realm of the mind, feelings and thoughts etc. and is often interchangeably used as such. In the OT the soul was often referred to as the life of a man amongst other things as afore-mentioned and the word was Nephesh in Hebrew. Both the soul and the spirit are eternal but the soul doesn't exist independent of the spirit. They also both form the Inner man (hence the often confusion).


Mark 8:36King James Version (KJV)
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Here it is described as life.

Proverbs 21:10King James Version (KJV)
10 The soul of the wicked desireth evil: his neighbour findeth no favour in his eyes.
Psalm 42:2-3King James Version (KJV)
2 My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

Here as a wish or desire or thought.

Acts 14:2King James Version (KJV)
2 But the unbelieving Jews stirred up the Gentiles, and made their minds evil affected against the brethren.

Here psuche used as realm of the mind.

Acts 14:22King James Version (KJV)
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 15:24King James Version (KJV)
24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

The soul stands next to other expressions for the human being to emphasize the emotional energy and willpower of the human being all rolled into one.

Mark 12:30King James Version (KJV)
30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Mark 14:34King James Version (KJV)
34 And saith unto them, My [b]soul[/b]is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.

Therefore, nephesh/psuche refers to the totality of the person as a center of life, emotions, feelings, and longings that can be fully realized only in union with God.

shdemidemi: The mandate isn't to emulate Jesus, that will come naturally as we grow in his word and know is mind by the renewing of our own mind. The directive from God to us is to herald the good news and good tidings of His son- His death, burial and ascension and how it culminated to be a salvation pass to all who will believe. Any other thing asides that is secondary, a distraction from the main job we have been assigned to do. Things like miracle seminar or clinic, ways to breakthrough financially, marriage solution seminar, as good as they sound these are all devil concocted activities to divert our attention from our main job as ambassadors of God's kingdom to a self conscious people.

Telling sick people that God has healed them is part of the message of Salvation.

1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

trustman: Can you show me the scripture that says Adam’s sin is received through other men’s spirit?

Romans 5:14 But death reigned from Adam unto Moses, even over them also who have not sinned after the similitude of the transgression of Adam, who is a figure of him who was to come.

The bible says, sin and death reigned through even those who didn't physically commit a sin like Adam. How was it possible? Because man is a spirit, that has a soul and lives in a body so he will always reproduce himself in the same way having the same spirit, soul and body. Jesus said so:

6 That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; and that which is born of the spirit, is spirit.

And the spirit of a man is what God looks at to determine if he is a sinner or not.

Proverbs 20:27King James Version (KJV)
27 The spirit of man is the candle of the Lord, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
Romans 8:27King James Version (KJV)
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit. . .

The word heart was at times used by translators in referring to the spirit of a man. God is the person who searches the spirit. So if any man is a sinner it is because of the type of spirit he has and if he is righteous it is the same reason- his spirit. for example,

Genesis 6:5King James Version (KJV)
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

God saw that after the fall, men's spirits became evil and conceived only evil things to do.

Ephesians 2:2King James Version (KJV)
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The evil one- or the devil, is the prince of the power of the air and he is the spirit that works in the children of disobedience- sinners. Compare that to the spirit that works in the obedient children- The Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:17King James Version (KJV)
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

Which portion of scripture says sin nature is the spirit of man when he is unregenerate?

The ONLY way you can truly know a man's nature is by his spirit because that is the real man.

1 Corinthians 2:11King James Version (KJV)
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is IN HIM?

So when you see for example in 1 John 3:5 that Jesus had no sin IN HIM you can tell that John was referring to his spirit. Also look at what Jesus said about a man's heart i.e spirit in Matthew 15

18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

And juxtapose it with what Paul said about sinful nature in Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

We can see that what Jesus described as act's that proceed from the spirit is what Paul calls works of the flesh of the unregenerate man (because he said the man will not inherit the Kingdom of God) thereby proving that the unregenerate man is the spirit with a sinful nature. Notice Paul said works/acts of the flesh. Now, what controls the flesh to act? The spirit of a man does. In the case of a righteous man his spirit causes his flesh to act right while the sinners sinful spirit causes him to act sinfully.

What is your definition of sinful FLESH?

The flesh that sinners (all men) have. The one the bible describes as corruptible or mortal. The one that can yield to sin if used as such. The same one susceptible to dents, defects, diseases and death.

Can you explain “but with my flesh I serve the law of sin”?

When Paul was a sinner his [sinful]spirit caused his members[flesh] to commit sin e.g Oversee Stephen's death. Even though in his soul (mind) he knew the law of God said "Thou shall not kill".

Is ‘a flesh that can sin but has no sin’ the same as ‘a flesh that has sin’?

Yes sir, they are the same flesh. One just used his to obey God while the other disobeyed God with his.

Did Jesus have (1) a flesh of sin but lived a life free of sin or (2) did he have a flesh free of sin and lived a life free of sin.

Jesus had the same flesh sinners had but he lived free of sin while in it.

Before Jesus' flesh qualified because he didn’t yield it to sin was it a sin-stained flesh?

It was the exact same flesh sinners had.

As far as the eternal SALVATION of man is concerned what is the importance of the body of Jesus in the Holy Communion?

1 Corinthians 11:24King James Version (KJV)
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Why was his body broken? because all the sins of men were imputed on his mortal body (spirits are immortal) so God had to destroy that body once and for all men. Each thing he suffered was to solve a particular issue. Isaiah said so in Chapter 53.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

This is why Jesus needed a mortal flesh-same as all men. Because only a mortal flesh could accommodate all these and then die.

shdemidemi: You don't seem to understand these things.. too much ambiguity can make one assume and make up ideas that are far from what the scripture is saying.

Who is a born again man?

could it be the flesh of the man, which is the outer layer that we refer to as our skin and its members? It can't be, because the bible says-


Genesis 2:7King James Version (KJV)

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


God made the cover of man(human flesh) and all its visible elements from the dust of the ground. But man never functioned as a man until God breathed in him. That breath of life was the final stage of the creation of man. That breath is what we call life.

That breath is the real you, that breath is what God refers to as mbaemeka and not the container housing him.

That container was what God told 'for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return'. The human flesh made from dust does not have anything to do with God. It goes back to where it came from. That is the main reason why I stand firmly against those who start ministries to care and gratify the flesh in the name of miracle. God is more concerned about that part that returns to him and not the part that decays after the breath is withdrawn.
Galatians 6
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Can you show me anywhere on this thread that I said the born again man is the flesh or are you replying the wrong person?

New- Check the word new as used in this verse. It is not new in the sense that it never existed before. You do not want to use your engish dictionary to interpret some of these bible words. Sometimes, the full understanding can only come by checking the original word that was used and its meaning.

new is kainos in greek- check and let me know what you find.


BORN AGAIN--- To be born again, you must have been born before.

The emboldened is an extremely false statement. The Spirit of the born-again man is NEW- he never existed before.

2 Corinthians 5:17Living Bible (TLB)
17 When someone becomes a Christian, he becomes a brand new person inside. He is not the same anymore. A new life has begun!
2 Corinthians 5:17 NIRV
New International Reader's Version
Anyone who believes in Christ is a new creation. The old is gone! The new has come!
2 Corinthians 5:17 NLT
New Living Translation
What this means is that those who become Christians become new persons. They are not the same anymore, for the old life is gone. A new life has begun!

The word kainos means exactly that- Brand new, fresh, created anew etc. The Spirit is brand new! that's what Paul is saying. The Old man- the unregenerate spirit is dead and gone!

Eve was still inside Adam who happens to be the federal head of all mankind when God made this statement. Every one, white, black, asian were all in this one Adam and all partook in the sins of Adam.

We were made good in Adam but we all fell when Adam fell, hence why we need to be born again, to be translated back to where we were originally.

We were reproduced from his spirit that's how we picked the sin up besides Eve was not in him when he fell. She fell on her own but because Adam got the instructions directly and not Eve, (he was the one representing mankind) he took all the blame.

shdemidemi: The spirit is brought back to life not changed. The old spirit dies instantly.

The born again man is a new man. He is not regenerated or revived. He is A NEW SPIRIT- one that never existed before.

2 Corinthians 5:17Amplified Bible (AMP)
17 Therefore if any person is [ingrafted] in Christ (the Messiah) he is a new creation (a new creature altogether); the old [previous moral and spiritual condition] has passed away. Behold, the fresh and new has come!

The soul is the new man.. It is saved but needs to grow by nourishing it with the 'right' Word.

The soul is not a new man- the New man like the old man has the same soul (mind). He is the one to be renewed by the word. The new man is the Spirit. The spirit and soul are not the same.

Romans 12:2Amplified Bible (AMP)
2 Do not be conformed to this world (this age), [fashioned after and adapted to its external, superficial customs], but be transformed (changed) by the [entire] renewal of your mind [by its new ideals and its new attitude], so that you may prove [for yourselves] what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God, even the thing which is good and acceptable and perfect [in His sight for you].

Ephesians 4:23Amplified Bible (AMP)
23 And be constantly renewed in the spirit of your mind [having a fresh mental and spiritual attitude],

What do you mean by 'acting on the word' and 'walking in the spirit'?

Walking by faith not by senses
Subjecting the flesh
meditating on the word
Praying and listening to the voice of the Spirit (fellowshipping with him)
being filled and led by him
Examining one's self etc.

trustman: Jesus was born PERFECT at birth i.e. without the stain of Adam’s sin which the rest of the entire mankind carries – 1 Corinthians 15: 22 “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive”

Adam's sin that other men received was through their spirit-just like him and not the flesh. Jesus didn't have the same spirit with Adam. Besides, that verse of scripture you quoted is comparing Adam after his fall and Jesus after his resurrection.

Jesus had human flesh, yes. BUT it was a flesh free from the influence of Adam’s stain that pervades the rest of mankind.

Adam's stain was in his spirit. Jesus didn't have the same spirit but Jesus had the same flesh. Spirit gives birth to spirit and flesh gives birth to flesh. Jesus' spirit was from his father but his flesh was from Mary.

This is because the one who would be acceptable to God as mankind’s sin-bearer had to be holy through and through. He had to be perfect at birth (NO SIN) and also had to be perfect when he reached the cross.

I have not said otherwise. Jesus had a perfect Spirit but he shared flesh with other men.

esus was born in a similar way that Adam was ‘created’ perfect. He was born free from sin and the influence of the sin nature that affected Adam after the fall and equally affected all his (Adam’s) progeny thereafter.

Sin nature is the spirit of a man when he is unregenerate. The spirit controls the flesh the bible says. Jesus' spirit was not tainted by sin so yes he didn't have sin nature but he had the same bodies sinners had.

Therefore to say Jesus had a sinful flesh would mean he was DISQUALIFIED ab initio from being the perfect sacrifice required by God for mankind’s salvation.

Depends on your definition of sinful flesh as used in the bible. It simply means corruptible flesh- the same one all humans have while on earth.

If Jesus had this ‘post Adam’s fall’ nature he would not have been an acceptable sacrifice. But like Hebrews 7: 26 says, he was ‘holy’, ‘unstained’ and ‘separated from sinners’. Like Hebrews 4: 15 says, he was ‘without sin’. 1 John 3:5 also says it: “… … in him there is no sin”

All meaning he had a perfect/righteous/sin-free spirit and that he did not commit sin- nothing else.

Romans 7: 25 is clear about the influence of the ‘flesh’ on the individual. In the humanity of Christ this influence of the ‘flesh’ was not there because like I pointed out earlier 1 John 3: 5 says “… in him there is no sin”.

What is IN HIM? The inner man- the Spirit. John was saying his Spirit was perfect and not that his flesh was different. As per Romans 7:25, this is what it says: Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.

Recall, I said this was Paul describing his unregenerate state even though few misunderstand and misapply the verse because they do not understand who a man is. Paul is saying "I" (my unregenerate spirit) read(s) the law of God and mentally assents to it (with his soul/mind) but my flesh was still sinning. Why? because the spirit controls the mind and the body. So when he was unsaved even if he saw 'thou shall not steal' and realized it was right with his mind, his spirit acted otherwise by causing his flesh to disobey because the spirit of the unregenerate man cannot obey God or his word Romans 8:7.

If it were possible (but unfortunately an impossibility) for a man born through Adam (i.e. by man & woman’s involvement) to subdue the mortal flesh from day one till he dies, that man will still not be an acceptable sacrifice to God. Why? Because that man already has the strike of Adam’s sin from birth.

I agree, because of the man's spirit. That's what I have been saying. Romans 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. Why should sin and death reign over those who didn't "commit" sin like Adam? because they already have the Spirit that is tainted with sin which Jesus did not have. Adam was a type of Jesus. How else except that Jesus had the same flesh with him even though they had different spirits given that Adam tainted his and Jesus maintained his till death.

So it needs repeating that your understanding and use of the words ‘sinful flesh’ in respect of Jesus is wrong. Sinful, again, is simple English. Sinful means tainted with, marked by or full of sin. So a sinful flesh has sin. Saying that of Jesus’ flesh would be blasphemous.

Jesus' flesh was like a man's flesh. That flesh would sin if he let it but he didn't. He needed the flesh to die because he would have died in no other flesh just like Adam would not have died if he hadn't received a curse on his flesh. That cursed/corruptible/mortal flesh is the EXACT SAME ONE Jesus had. It is a flesh that can sin and KJV called it sinful flesh in Romans 8:3. (NB: I do not take definitions of biblical terms from a dictionary- Just so you'd know!)

What made Jesus DIFFERENT and the PERFECT SACRIFICE then were:
1. He was born perfect (sin-free).
2. He remained perfect till the cross.

The two CANNOT be separated. He is not a sinful flesh who lived a life free of sin to qualify for the cross.
He is a sin-free flesh who lived a life free of sin to qualify for the cross.

Man is not a flesh. Man is a spirit that lives in a flesh same way you live in your house but you are not your house. Get it right. Jesus had the same flesh that sinners had but he (his spirit was sin-free/righteous) and he did not commit sin. That's what made him perfect.

So when Jesus said in John 5: 51 “… … and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh” he was talking about a perfect flesh which was the only thing that would satisfy the righteous requirement of God the Father. It was a flesh WITHOUT DEFECT – a flesh without the stain and influence of the old sin nature and lived throughout the incarnation free of sin.

He was referring to the mortal flesh that he had- the same type that sinners had. He called it my flesh and not "me", for he is not a flesh- he is a spirit. That flesh qualified because he didn't yield it to sin.

The importance of Jesus’ flesh is also shown in the observance of the Holy Communion. His body as well as his blood was given for us. If any of them was sinful will it be given this much prominence? Obviously not.

The importance of the flesh is not in question (especially by those who believe that salvation includes healing) but the type of his flesh was clearly stated in scripture- He had the EXACT SAME FLESH that sinners had.

christemmbassey: shameless hypocrites, enemies of d gospel of Christ. @Gombs, tnx for not disappointing, i knew you are very dishonest, but i didn't know you had a Nobel price for it, if u continue like this, bros you go soon floor satan o. I hope you know, there is God.

What is all this?

^^^
The spirit is changed instantly. What does not change instantly is the soul (mind) and flesh. We are to renew the mind by the studying and (believing) of the word while we are to subdue the flesh by acting on the word (walking in the spirit). I have said this even on this thread.

(Edited)

I am not splitting hairs but that Lawrence Agada stole doesn't make him a thief but if someone is a thief even if he hasn't stolen anything yet he would eventually steal because it is his nature.

As per Lawrence Agada still being a member I don't know and I lost touch with checking on him. What I am certain of is that he confessed to his Church (when making his apology) that when Sheraton saw they could not recover a substantial aspect of the said amount they forced him to make claims that he gave all the money he took to the church as seed so that the church would be asked to remit it. And the man obliged them at some point because he was defending dear life. He later retracted the claims of 'sowing the whole money' aspect.

But, give me a break guys, a man would risk stealing a whopping 40M (in the early 2000s o) to give the whole money to his church and this is the story that the media ran with back then that had itchy Nigerians calling for people's heads. Even when the said Lawrence Agada's "Pastor" teaches that if one was to find any money mysteriously kept anywhere they should not assume that it is some miracle-money or a gift from heaven but should take such money to the nearest police station.

shdemidemi: Why don't we just leave adamic flesh as what it is- sinful, enmity with God, the devil's property.

Jesus never came in that form! but you and I did. Jesus came like that form but not in that form. He was never a sinner nor God's enemy at any point like you and I.



He defeated sin from the day he was conceived. The way he came in to the world was by a different route from the way you and I came. Since he could do that, he used the same power to condemn sin for us so we can become friends and sons of God.

You and I became sinners not because we told a lie, we became sinners because we were conceived in sin even before we had an opportunity to commit an act of sin. We became slaves to sin for that reason, sin was our master, he makes us crave for what is diametrically against God's will. Jesus was never a slave to sin, hence he couldn't be propelled to do the act.






emulate in what sense?

We were born sinners because of the Spirit we had at birth and not because of the flesh. I live in my house but I am not my house. Jesus wasn't born a sinner because he was born with a righteous SPIRIT that is what enabled him to condemn sin in the flesh.

Emulate Jesus in the way he thought(his mentality), the way he acted, the way he responded, the way he spoke and the things he did (apart from the one's he did for us)

^^^
I don't even know what has brought this. The only thing I can pick from there is I never said Jesus came as a sinner. I said he had the same body sinners had. That's what the verse says.

Also, Jesus came through Adam. Jesus took upon himself the seed of Abraham and not the 'Nature of Angels'. That's what Hebrews 2 says. In other words, Jesus was like Isaac.

Peter said in Acts 2:22 that Jesus was a MAN approved of God by miracles, signs etc. Peter knew that Jesus was functioning as man while on earth and man needs God's help to cause a miracle to happen but God doesn't need anyone's help.

Gombs: To the best of my knowledge is now far better than according to proven facts.
Simple...call a dog a bad name just so you can hang it. Buddy how far na, RON na tomorrow o, hope you ready?

Ready as the word!

nannymcphee: I hope the quote below will address ur last paragraph, he said according to his knowledge, it wasn't a statement of certainty


Q1. Cite a newspaper publication where "the Church" returned the generator?

If there is none, how do u expect the public to know that it was returned? Even if there is one, the man said "according to the best of the knowledge"

How much was the offering? So if he says he gave 50 million the church would then raise 50 Million even if they didn't have such amount at the time?

So will Sheraton also go to the places the man shopped in, the people he gave monies to, the malls he visited etc. to ask them for the money he gave to them?

I don't have any newspaper article to show to you but as a member of that ministry I did my investigations and found out that the generator was returned immediately. What is even interesting is how Pastor Chris was accorded all the blame by those who write things 'to the best of their knowledge' regardless of how inconsequential such knowledge is.

Romans 8:3 NLT

The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin’s control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.

What is the weakness of sinful nature? The Spirit we had was tainted with sin and was ALIENATED from God so we couldn't obey the law. God then sent his son IN A BODY LIKE THE BODIES SINNERS HAVE.

shdemidemi: My dear bro..

If you ever say he came with an adamic flesh, then it means he came as a sinner. Adamic flesh is a sinful flesh. He did not come as a sinner like you and I who sin was imputed even before we told our first lie. If he did he would sure need to be redeemed as well, you agree?

Adamic flesh is a sinful flesh I agree. But my definition of that sinful flesh means a flesh that can sin, that is subject to sin, that can accommodate sin, that is corruptible, mortal etc and that's exactly the flesh Jesus had. Paul said that repeatedly. Jesus while in that Adamic/Human flesh NEVER SINNED. That's how unique he was again. Paul said he CONDEMNED SIN in the flesh meaning he destroyed sin, he defeated sin, he subjected sin, he won sin.

And we are to emulate Jesus now that we have the same Spirit with him.

shdemidemi: If a thing is dead, it is dead. Adam never had that spirit anymore. The spirit he operated on was that of the world, the devil.

Now that we are born again, we don't have that old spirit any more. That is why there is such thing as OSAS. What is left of the old nature in a christian is that bond we had with it, it was all we knew. It is completely dead now and cannot be brought back to life.

The bible admonish us to start a renewing/ a reconstruction/ a refurbishment of our mind so we can get use to this new soirit that has been made alive in us.

I agree with every other thing you said apart from the first sentence. If Adam's SPIRIT had 'died' the flesh would have died that very day. What the bible refers to as a dead spirit is that the Spirit is cut-off from God. Adam's SPIRIT was cut-off from God but now Alive to the devil. Same way anyone who is not born again is cut-off from God. Paul taught exactly that.

shdemidemi: Jesus was God and He was man while He walked on the surface of the earth. He constantly calls himself the son. It isn't as if God had a wife to give birth to Jesus. He called Himself the son because He is the image of God that people like you and I saw.

What satan concludes isn't the issue. Satan is as ignorant as you and I when it comes to the detailed plans of God.

If you say Jesus came exactly as us, you are saying he came as an enemy of God as well. Remember, we were enemies even when he rendered is life for us.

You are saying He came dead on arrival with a dead spirit that need salvation or repentance.

You are also saying his heart is desperately wicked like the one we got as a result of the fall

Jesus was God I agree and I never refuted that fact. I said he didn't FUNCTION as God.

Secondly, I said Jesus came exactly as a human being which means he had a Spirit, soul and body. But I maintained that his Spirit wasn't like ours-no sir. He had a righteous SPIRIT because he was fathered by God. Then he had an earthly mother which accounts for his physical body. That's why he was unique- he was born untainted unlike the rest of us bar Adam. That's why he was the Last Adam. He had to come like Adam to represent Adam. The only difference is that he needed Adamic flesh so that he would be able to die.

shdemidemi: I agree with you. Was the spirit/the heart of man made by God to be evil? No. After man botched it, he lost the heart of God, he could never please God. Man needed to revive the dead spirit that died at the fall for any chance of pleasing God, hence why we needed Jesus to die so we might be brought back to life.

The inner man is not the wicked man. He is the real you and I that died when Adam sinned. That's why we can say an unbeliever is dead, though he is breathing, literally, like Adam was. The day an unbeliever comes to Christ, his spirit (connected to His creator) is brought back to life as far as God is concerned.

Every child born into this world except for jesus is born dead on arrival (spiritually). The baby becomes alive spiritually the day he/she accepts Christ. The sinful spirit/old man/sin nature that operates in that child before he/she comes to Christ is what is put to death at that point of spiritual new birth.

The bible makes us understand we would not even feel anything when this change happens but what did the bile say we do-

Romans 6
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We take the word for what it says by faith. It says 'reckon' yourselves- meaning 'consider' yourselves dead to that adamic old nature or the wicked heart as you called it.

I agree too with most if not all of what you said but my point is that the inner man of an unbeliever is inherently wicked even if the flesh has done no wicked acts. Paul said sin reigned over all men (including those) that didn't sin in the similitude of Adam. Meaning even men who didn't disobey God with their bodies were sinners in his sight because of what Satan did.

Satan made sure a 'dead spirit' (to God) kept reproducing other 'dead spirits. He wanted the Savior to have a dead spirit (to God) as well. But God had other plans. That's why Satan was confused. He made Herod kill all the young babies of 2 years and below because he didn't even know who Jesus was.

shdemidemi: DEAD....

How can a dead spirit be tainted again?

Adam took up a new spirit, a new heart, a new nature that fits perfectly into the evil world he was pushed to. Do you get?

Dead spirit to God but alive to the devil. Just the same when we are born again we are dead to the devil and alive to God.

So when Adam was alive to the devil his Spirit was tainted with sin. That's why when God looked upon the earth he saw that Men's spirits had become continually evil and so he wiped them out. Satan was doing this in a bid to corrupt Jesus' Spirit. It had always been Satan's plan: to get sin INTO Jesus' Spirit.

shdemidemi: What exactly is spirit? Every man has a spirit, even animals have one (though they have no soul). Do your research on what the spirit is and draw cogent understanding from this verse.

it is ruah in hebrew and pneuma in greek.




Like I said about your first quote, you need to know what the spirit means. Spirit as used here shows us its significance. We all have a spirit in us. The question is if the spirit is from God or the spirit of the world.

Animals don't have a Spirit per se. The bible says only Men have one. Also I have researched on the two words you mentioned- Ruah and Pneuma and they both mean breath, wind etc.

After Adam no man born into this world God a 'direct' Spirit from God. We got it by the law of reproduction that God set in motion through Adam. So the type of spirit a man would have depends on the spirit his parents would have. Remember Jesus said spirits give birth to spirits and flesh gives birth to flesh? So if a man is a SPIRIT BEING that has a soul and live in a body he would give birth to someone with the same attributes.

In Jesus case his father was God (directly) but his mum was mary. So Jesus got his Spirit and 'blood' from his dad but his body from his mum- that's why Jesus was born righteous. The rest of us that were born before Jesus had a corruptible Spirit because of our parents so we would have gone to hell straight up. But God gave the law to help us and those who had it got some nominal salvation till Jesus came.

Now that Jesus has come and is alive forevermore if two Godly parents (Christians) give birth to a baby that baby is righteous because his Spirit would be righteous. Why? Because his Parents have a righteous SPIRIT (the new man).

shdemidemi: What happened when Adam fell!

God had said- Gen 2:16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat[a] of it you shall surely die.”


Can you explain how Adam died or if he actually died the day he ate the fruit. If he did die, what part of him died?

2 things happened to Adam. His Spirit was separated from God (spiritual death) and it became tainted with sin. His physical body too began to decay and die (that is it became corruptible) and certain that he was eventually going to leave his body.

shdemidemi: MBA..
I was too tired to respond to your attempt to turn scriptures on its head last night. Well, I will start by asking you to check your definition of 'kenoo' (empty) again in its connection with context.
Did Jesus empty Himself of Godhood?
Did he cease to be what he essentially and eternally was?
Don't just be about your net point. Take time to look in to the questions and answer appropriately.
The bible says 'For the life of the flesh is in the blood'- how then can the flesh of Jesus be corrupt like that of man if the blood is good enough to pay the price of sin? Think Mba!

Jesus emptied himself of his Godhood. That's what I have been saying. He did that so that he could be a man 100 percent. If he had any trace of his power left in him then Satan would conclude that it was the reason he passed the tests and temptations. That's why Jesus' life on earth was a mystery. It was because the eternal word of God became a man and lived and suffered like one.

I asked you some questions and the answers to them would have helped you understand my point. For example, Jesus had to grow in wisdom, he had to pray daily, he needed the Holy Spirit to perform miracles, He died etc. All these could only have been possible if he was a man for if he was God the Immortality in him would have prevented him from being captured let alone dying. The inherent power he had would have been enough to work the miracles and he would not have needed to pray- after all, who would God be praying to?

As per his blood being the life of his physical body I agree but recall that an immortal body would not have blood. That's why Jesus must have of necessity had a human/mortal body to function on earth.

I have never said Jesus is not God. All I have maintained is that while he was on earth he was functioning as a man.

Lawrence Agada didn't give the 39 Million they said he took to church o. He bought a generator for the Satellite church he worshiped in and gave normal offerings like any other member would. When he was found out by Sheraton and it was certain they would not be able to recoup all the money (as he used some for his personal needs) they asked him to say he sowed all the money to church so the church would be forced to pay it. At one point sef, they almost claimed the money went to Pastor Chris himself.

The church immediately returned the Generator to Sheraton and life moved on but Oremosu who didn't do any research thought it wise to include it in his/her write-up.

trustman: Just to let you know I've seen this your post to which your first sentence actually belongs.
Others have made some remarks on your lack of basic understanding of Biblical doctrines. I will get back to it some other time and show you why you still need the basics of Christianity.

lol, you guys crack me up that's why I kept replying. But since I have noticed your style is just to keep repeating the same chaff I will do well to let you deride yourself.

Anyone who has eyes to read and a heart to learn will see those who made statements without biblical backings and kept changing positions with each scripture they were shown. I rested my case when you and your brothers didn't know who a man is according to the bible and what was funny was how you all endorsed different posts that contradicted everything you had once said or even stood for on this thread. That was actually the funniest.

shdemidemi: Now I understand the sort of person you are.. I will refute all the you wrote when I have time.

If it is on man being a spirit, please feel free but I won't reply on that because those scriptures are very clear and need no interpretations. As per the Philippians 2 or the definition of Sarx please be my guest. Maybe you would chip in how you arrived at Jesus' heavenly body while on earth too.

shdemidemi: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hMx7BAAAQBAJ&pg=PT2220&lpg=PT2220&dq=sarx+as+used+in+john+1:14+vines&source=bl&ots=NJHLTThHOF&sig=QLg26_8Ok8m93eQ1T5Ja8SF2bH0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zbEpVN-oIdHmaNW3gfgB&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=sarx%20as%20used%20in%20john%201%3A14%20vines&f=false

get busy bro... if these links don't help, nothing can.

Anyone who can view this should please help me explain the following to the poster above:

1)
synecdoche
[si-nek-duh-kee]
noun,
1.a figure of speech in which a part is used for the whole or the whole for a part, the special for the general or the general for the special

This is what you said:

The greek word for flesh is 'sarx' as used in John 1:14
'sarx' means the totality of all that is essential to manhood i.e spirit, soul and body.

But vine said sarx means flesh which by synecdoche, could be applied to mean totality of all that is essential to manhood. Can you see the difference?

2) That vine defined the same word as used in Romans 8:3 in referring to the same flesh or [Totality of Jesus' humanity] to refer to- the weaker element in HUMAN nature.

Now, I said the word Sarx means flesh,carnal etc. and I gave you links to that effect. You said it means totality of all that is essential to manhood i.e spirit, soul and body and you gave me vine's exposition but Vine said the word means flesh which BY SYNECDOCHE could be applied to what you said. Tell me who lied?

Also, he said nothing about a HEAVENLY body so I believe we can put that to rest as another heresy that God's word didn't buy.