₦airaland Forum

Nnamdipapa:
I consider the bible and Quran the opinions of men who wrote them. The question of human origin has been a deeply philosophical one that has been debated over the ages.
The theory of evolution makes the most sense to me.

How did humans evolve without a purpose or plan or intelligence?

MightySparrow:
However, the 'inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statementsa and teachings of demons,

The attempt to make Jehovah's Witnesses present to their congregants a text to promote their bias in the interpretation from the original texts, some obvious mispresentation and translation is easily observed. One of such is the passage of the Bible above
Bearing in mind that Paul was writing to Timothy, to avoid that the Spirit was the one speaking, being a force, that cannot talk, or having consciousness, it has to be replaced with the ' inspired word'. The inspirer was removed. The rendering makes the meaning watered down. Which inspired word was Paul referring to? Was Paul quoting some texts or was it his personal revelation by the spirit he was communicating to Timothy?

Where does the 'spirit' gets information from?

Speaklove:
https://www.youtube.com/live/bVBE-0pmZRs?si=VQ4z6wwOHQoI0AQ5


This is a link to hell testimony .

Did Jesus not tell you in the Lazarus and rich man story that he was not going to send either Lazarus or the rich man to warn people on earth about torment in hell, So where do people get testimonies of torment in hell from?

Speaklove:
IS BIBLICAL FOR GOD TO SEND A PERSON FROM THE DEAD TO WARN THE LEAVING ? :
X-RAYING THE PARABLE OF THE RICH MAN

There are many testimonies out there given by people who said to have died ;went to hell and returned with messages of repentance from God or just sharing their experiences .

Now we have a lot of people who although believe in God ,don't believe in hell(where people burn for eternity) like the Jehovah witnesses .
there are some who believe in the after life but don't believe their is heaven or hell , while some others( who are Christians) believe in heaven and hell but don't believe God could send a dead person back to life to warn the living because( they thought)the Bible said so .

The purpose of this post is to x-ray that notion.
To help us grasp and comprehend what the Bible says in truth.

Jesus told the story of a poor beggar called Lazarus ,and a rich man both of which died and went beyond in .

Luke 16:19-31
[19]“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
[20]But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
[21]desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22]So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
[23]And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24]“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
[25]But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
[26]And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
[27]“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,
[28]for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
[29]Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’
[30]And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
[31]But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”



Point1.
The rich man didn't see God nor spoke with God in person but with Abraham . (Verse 23)

Point2.
the rich man asked Abraham for mercy and for water through Lazarus and not God .(verse24)

Point3.
the rich man begged Abraham to send Lazarus back to to his father's house to warn his brothers it wasn't God that he begged.(verse27/28)

Point4.
abraham was the one who answered the rich man not God .(29)

Point5.
abraham said "they have Moses ,and the prophets ;let them hear them ."(verse 29)

Point6.
the rich man suggest sending someone from the dead will lead his brothers to repentance(verse30)

Point7.
.Abraham replied the rich man saying (if they don't hear the living the would not listen to the dead who returned either).

Point8. Now there is no single place where it was said that God himself said no one from the dead will be sent to warn mankind neither Abraham .

Point 9.
This is not just a parable as some people would want to believe .
All of Jesus parables in which he mentioned people he never assigned a name beard by actual people (who live historically) to any of them except this one .

He mentioned Abraham ,and Moses a people who are historical documented to have lived .

Inserting them in a parable that never happened in such a manner would be something Else .


Point10.
Now some might say well Jesus didn't die and came back to tell the story .
He said it while he was alive .
Well Jesus was from heaven and how could he have know it if he wasn't there in the spirit ?
He knows all things
Did he said before Abraham was I am ?

Point11.
Some argue that those who saw heaven were not permitted to speak about the things they saw .
Eh . Paul said he saw things that were unlawful to say .
But John was also taking into heaven and he saw things that Jesus himself permitted him to write ,and to send to the churches .

Point12
The rich man didn't ask to be sent back himself to life but poor Lazarus who had suffered while on earth .
Lazarus was not the one who asked to be sent himself .
The Rich man didn't discuss or pray to God in the story but spoke instead with Abraham who had not even the power to get Lazarus with water from one barrier to another talk less of getting him across the spirit realm to the physical .

Point13.
Some would argue that John and Paul were not dead when they saw what they saw in heaven whereas the people who share theses testimonies claimed to have died and came back to life

Well there is no way one could have such experience as same as that of Paul and John without going through some level of mortification in the flesh or without living the physical into the spiritual .
The spiritual atmosphere that those people experienced and that of John and Paul when they had theirs weren't different .

One goes through the same process to experience either death or spiritual encounter in heaven or hell that are beyond dreams ,visions and trance .

Jesus was from the realm (of the spirit) those people claimed to have visited that's why he could tell the story in the first place .


Matthew 18:16
[16]But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’


Witness 1. Jesus spoke about hell himself in Matthew chp 5:22'29'30 . mark chp 9 vs 43 ,45 ,47. luke12:5.
Witness 2 .
James spoke about hell in James 3:6
and witness 3 .
Peter spoke about hell also in 2peter2:4.

Jesus having spoken about the story meant that the age where people would be led to seek salvation by faith in Christ had not come .
If someone should come say it in the age of Moses all they would do is adjust their lifestyle but they would have no access to the saving grace of God because sin which is the gate of hell had not been defeated by the arrival and death of christ.

Before there is a revelation of hell there need be a revelation of it's defeat.

Then a time came when Jesus could say
"I have the keys of hell and hades ."

So by this time victory has been achieved by Christ .
Christ has the key of hell so he could bring out of it whoever can still be given a second chance .
People were raised from death before Christ but no one has the authority to deliver from hell or go to hell and call out souls from there .

Elisha raised the Shunamite woman's child from death ; he could pray that God should bring back the spirit of the child ;
but he could not command hell to release the dead from it's grip by his own authority.
Only Jesus has authority over death and hell (a part of hades) which no human had before his time .

1 Corinthians 15:55-57
[55]“O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?”
[56]The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
[57]But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Revelation 1:18
[18]I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

If the rich man was in hell, where was Lazarus and Abraham?

Why would the rich man ask for water since he was not on earth, do people in hell drink water without their physical bodies?

sonmvayina:
Anytime....

It also means that God is killing and raping himself because he is also the one expressing himself through those who are been killed and raped. Thanks boss for the enlightenment.

sonmvayina:
See proverbs 16:4....

Proverbs 16:4
King James Version (KJV)
The LORD hath made all things for himself: Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

So the lord is the one expressing himself through wicked humans by killing people and raping them. Thanks for the enlightenment.

sonmvayina:
The universe...that created them ...

People are evil...that's much is what Scooby Doo has been telling us in ages.....
They can also choose to do good....
Some are good.....and they can choose to do good.

Oga nawa for you oo...you said the universe is consciousness and consciousness is God.
So who is expressing himself through bad and good people?

Speaklove:
Here you go .

Luke 16:19-25
[19]“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
[20]But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
[21]desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22]So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
[23]And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24]“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
[25]But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.

Madam....Luke 16:19-25 is not a true life story.
If the rich man was in hell, where was Lazarus and Abraham? Were they also in hell too? Yes or no?

Why was the rich man asking for water in hell when it is only people on earth that drink water?

Speaklove:
You Haven't answered my question .
Let take it step by step .

Madam....there is no knowledge on earth that is in hell. If you claim there is knowledge in hell, mention the knowledge with biblical backup.

Speaklove:
Mentioned one knowledge that is currently on earth that wouldn't be irrelevant to have in hell.

Ecclesiastics 9:10 says no knowledge in hell. You came with your interpretation. So prove your interpretation.

sonmvayina:
Are you a rapist?

Are people not rapists, who is expressing himself through those people?

sonmvayina:
We are the medium through which consciousness (God) experiences it self.....

I am not responsible for your thoughts..

So all the people raping and killing others are actually mediums for God to express himself? Wow....thanks for the knowledge. So your God rapes and kills people.

sonmvayina:
Consciousness...pure consciousness...

🤣🤣🤣....you claimed the space in my sentence now you are claiming consciousness. Are you not confused?

tobby20:
Even the space you used in your sentence is part of the universe

So I am in the space of my sentence?

sonmvayina:
We are the medium through which the universe experiences the universe...

The universe is conscious....so are we.

We are in the universe and the universe is in us...

What is the universe?

Speaklove:
I never spoke about partial knowledge but irrelevant knowledge

Where did you get your interpretation of relevant knowledge in hell?

Nnamdipapa:
Religion has always been a big part of my life while growing up and I came out of it when I saw the level of deception and mind control involved.
All my siblings are either ministers or married to pastors and always seeking to drag me to church.
There is no amount of NL arguments thall change my mind so I don't waste my time with strangers except I am asked a direct question.
I am more of a humanist now.

Nice opinion. Can you explain how humans came into existence?

Nnamdipapa:
Because it would also be pointless and a waste of my time. I am working all through the time.

I won't be engaging pointlessly on NL anymore.

🤣🤣🤣....but you see a point in religion. Oga rest.

Speaklove:
First reply :

Don't get me wrong .
I said there are some knowledge that will be no longer relevant after ones death .
I think maybe that came late or you did not see it .
So read my reply again .

After that I will gice you the second reply .
I just want you to understand my point .

Where does the Bible speak of partial knowledge in hell.

Nnamdipapa:
Whatever makes you happy man, I am making a new year resolutions never to involve in any pointless argument or discussion to leads to a waste of time.

It was the other guy that raised the issue about universe not me.

Lol....but you saw no need to question his ideas but accepted it because of your bias towards religion. Sorry oo.

Speaklove:
Solomon was speaking about mundane knowledge that can be applied on earth to achieve one or two things like scientific knowledge etc .

Knowledge is different from consciousness .
In the real of the spirit one would have the ability to grasp and know things spontaneously without having ever been taught about them .
That's a product of interfacing with the spirit that has that knowledge by consciousness of that that spirit .

The Bible says " the spirit will reveal things ears haven't hear nor seens by eyes through his spirit to the believer ."
This is the product of perception achieved by conscious .

Note I never said no knowledge in hell but only said what Solomon said is knowledge and not consciousness .
Because they wrote consciousness ,and there was no consciousness in the Scriptures you posted .

The knowledge Solomon was talking about is not awareness but mundane knowledge that one acquire in order to make impact on earth .
You dont acquire consciousness or self-awareness . It's natural

Those knowledge would have no use in hell so do what's need to be done with them before you die . that's what Solomon was saying .

So where does the Bible distinguish between the knowledge humans have on earth and between the one in hell. Is there any knowledge in hell that we don't have here on earth? If yes, what knowledge?

Dtruthspeaker:
And this is when you show that you are a very stupid and mad person.

🤣🤣na wa oo.

Speaklove:
Consciousness means life .
It is by consciousness that one Interface with reality .
What ever you are not conscious of is not yet real to you even if you are seeing it .

Some people are not yet in hell but they are conscious of it and that consciousness is the evidence that they believe in hell ,there are having a taste of what it could be like even before they go there .
Some people have the knowledge of hell but they don't have the consciousness of it ,so it becomes unreal to them even though they have its knowledge they forget about hell and then sin unpresumptuously because they couldn't not touch or feel hell again through their consciousness .

So coming to your question:

consciousness in hell entails death .
It entails spiritual death .
Though some of those in hell have the knowledge of the holy spirit they can't perceive him anymore .(they are now separated from the mingling of the holy spirit which comes by being conscious of the holy spirit)
They can't hear the sound of that small still voice that usually try to correct them or stop them from sining eg . masturbating ,lying , phonography , stealing , etcetera .

That voice is gone forever because there is no need of repentance in hell .
So consciousness in hell represent having the opposite of the small still voice ,now the consciousness that the have is the voice that accuses them ,reminds them of how they were preach to but they refused to repent .
Reminds them that they have loves one on earth who would soon join them .

So conscious in hell entails being constantly reminded of ones sin, one's family earth .

,sorrow born out of reminiscing about chances and opportunities that could have stop one from coming there but which one took for granted .

You are funny oo.....how can one have knowledge of the Holy spirit In a place where knowledge does not exist?

How can one be reminded of of his or her loved ones in a place where there is no knowledge?

How can one regrets his past actions in a place without knowledge?

You clearly have a problem of separating consciousness from knowledge as you claimed earlier.

Dtruthspeaker:
Diid i not say you will ask a stupid question? Please waka.

🤣🤣🤣So you can't even name one activity that occurs in hell. Na wa oo...and you claim to know the bible.

Speaklove:
Knowledge is different from consciousness .

You might have the knowledge of God and yet not have consciousness of his presence in your environment while you commit sin in secret .

The verses you quoted is talking about knowledge not consciousness .

I am anticipating your sweet response.

So what does consciousness in hell entail?

Dtruthspeaker:
Is it not the, humans living on the earth who work and talk and pursue knowledge and share knowledge?

Is it not humans who wish to speak to the dead and even sometimes we wish to collect debts they owed from them?

You don't have any valid thing to say, hence you can mad fully repeat your words till it blurs, its all in vain.

Oga what activities do dead people engage in in hell?
Name the activities and back it up with a Bible verse.

Speaklove:
Jesus is so burdened that we neglect those who don't know him while we celebrate among ourselves about going to heaven .

We watch others helplessly go to hell because no body cares for them ; but Christ cares .
But is concern for their predicament can only be expressed through us who are saddled with the responsibility of bringing to the knowledge of the gospel and leading to Christ .

Wake up and do something about that person you know doesn't know Christ .
Wake up !

Hell is where humans go when they dies as shown in the screenshot below. There is no consciousness in hell.

I'm available

Available

Available

Dtruthspeaker:
Did you not say sheol, hell, grave whatever the name is the place after what we call death?

Does common sense not tell you Ecclesiastics 9:10 is in reference to our human capability of trying to speak to the dead as though they were living like our neighbors who are still believe living? or the impossibility of our trying to take knowledge or give knowledge to them? not to talk of giving them work.

Everyone knows this but you are always never there to know hence why you ask stupid questions . i wonder which one would drop now.

Oga Ecclesiastics 9:10 is talking about the condition of hell. It is not merely talking about the inability of humans to talk to dead people.
Does Ecclesiastics 9:10 mention any activity that takes place in hell? If yes, what activity?

Catholic Translations

Douay-Rheims Bible
Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it
earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor
wisdom, nor knowledge shall be in hell,
whither thou art hastening

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