₦airaland Forum

Workch:
Finch is a group


Are they not all still finches made up of the same biological stock?finches is a family of birds, and not species.
If you remember in your ss1 taxonomy class in biology, living organism are classified from kingdom to phylum to class, to order, to family, to genus and finally species (we also have subspecies). A species of organism are a population of organisms that are genetically compatible to reproduce to have fertile offsprings ( e.g., lions and tigers can mate to produce offsprings, however their offspring are usually sterile hence we cannot classify them as one species, however a subspecies of lion like asiatic lion can mate with African lion to produce fertile offsprings).

Speciation is the moment in a line of evolutionary lineage where one of the offsprings can no longer mate with any of the ancestral species.

Finches is a family of bird and not a species, Just as apes are an order of primate and not a species. If one species of finch emerges, it’s still a finch in the family of finch.

However, with more and more time, this evolution progresses into the level of genus, to order, to family, to class, to phylum and kingdom. It’s why we have 7 kingdoms of living organism, it took more than 3.5billion years just to get 7 kingdoms of animals, it takes lesser to get more species

Ok thank you. So What will it take biologically for a Galapagos finch to evolve into another organism in a different family of animals? Can a finch family of birds evolve to family of apes? Is that biologically feasible?

Workch:
I didn’t say that crocodile evolved from Dinosaurs.

Yes that suggest that Apes came suddenly. Because when we go deeper down the strata, the lesser the frequency of seeing apes related fossils until you finally don’t see them all. As you screen back up, ape fossils becomes more frequently seen.

The deeper down you go, the more frequent you see Dinosaurs, if you screen back up, the lesser you see them until the disappear

In the fossil records, fossil appear and disappear at some point. The evidence we have for that is that a lot of those fossils are not longer in existence anymore.



I see that you are very open-minded, do you mind if I explain to you how geology works in relation to fossil records so you can get the clear picture?

Alright....if we both agree that fossils records show that apes came suddenly, What could have been the cause?

Osamabinladenik:
we always find these fossils in well defined positions in Earth's strata.

You will never see a fossil in a strata dated 50million years ago, it disappears and reappears again 10,000 years ago.

Fossil appear suddenly in the strata, where did they appear from if not from others organism there or alive today?

So what exact organisms could they have appeared from? And where did those previous organisms come from too?

Workch:
Mutation and variation is the basis of evolution, it’s the driver for evolution.
That’s actual what evolution is. Without variation,the diversity we have today will be impossible and you and I won’t be here today

However, when mutation and recombination occurs over a long period of time, to an extent that the resultant species can no longer mate with the parent species, speciation occurs.

I see that you do not really understand evolution, you have the impression that evolution is when another organism becomes another, no. Evolution is the little change that occurs at every point of reproduction that is passed than to offsprings.

With time, these changes accumulate and are driven by natural selection, which then eventually may cause speciation.


Speciation: When a species can no longer mate with any of its ancestral species.

An example of recent speciation can be seen in the emergence of a new species of a Galapagos finch that can no longer mate with their existing parent species, they can only mate with themselves and they evolved into another species few decades ago.

Can you kindly give more scientific explanation about the biological difference between the new specie of the galapagos finch and their previous parents specie? Are they not all still finches made up of the same biological stock?

Workch:
Yes it does, the reason it does is because you can find them in a specific arrangement in the strata of the earth crust, which when you date them shows that one of them comes from the other.

For example, there’s never going to be a time when you will find a fossil of an Ape where you find that of Dinosaurs, this is because Apes didn’t live with Dinosaurs. However, we have evidence that crocodiles roamed with Dinosaurs because we can find crocodile fossils in the same stratum where we find that of dinosaurs.

This gives clear indication that Crocodiles roamed this earth before apes come on board.

If you argue this then explain to me how come we always do not find Ape fossils farther than 5million years ago?
Where did Apes come from if the earth is 4.6billion years?

I get your point. But does the fact that crocodiles roamed with dinosaurs gives scientific proof that they evolved from dinosaurs? If apes are not found to be roaming with dinosaurs and have been existing for about 5 million years till today, does that not suggest that they could have come suddenly?

Workch:
Evolution is the change in gene frequency in a population of organisms.
This happens via mutations and recombination of genes, leading to variations.

If evolution is not true, how did we get racial variation as a result of change in gene frequencies From Adam and Eve?

Cos if variations and gene frequencies didn’t change and drift, everyone will look exactly like Adam and Eve or either of them or a combined exactly replica of Abel And Cain.

Without evolution, Cain and Abel will be exact same replica

Ok are you trying to say that mutation and variation is the same as evolution? Cause the theory of evolution teaches that changes can occur within a specific organism and completely change it to another organism. Wheareas mutation and variation do not biologically change an organism to a different one but most times changes physical properties of a kind of organism while the organism remains biologically the same. For example while we have different colours of humans, we are still biologically made up of the same stock. So which one?

Workch:
If the Genesis story is literally true, then evolution (and almost everything else about science) is wrong. Simple.

However, even the Catholic Pope doesn’t believe that the Adam & Eve story is literally true. http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm

And we know that microwave ovens work, mobile phones work and satellite GPS works, so not everything about science is wrong.

That leaves you with interpreting the Adam & Eve story as an allegory (for something) or as a method that the people of that time used to convey religious and cultural values.

It doesn’t make sense on any level to me, but I accept that others find meaning there.

Assume that Adam and Eve were the first humans on Earth and that they were of the same race. Their continued offspring would have had to evolve into all the different ethnic people of the world and this is hard to fault because otherwise there would not be such a variety of humans around the world. That is, evolution would have had to take place for the changes to occur. If that part of evolution is accepted why not the whole of evolution from primitive life to successively more complex life? Adam was possibly a complex molecule, which had not yet triggered into life.

The Bible, Tora and Qur’an does not say this, however. God made Adam in his own image, a fully modern human being. These books are wrong.

You have to accept evolution in its entirety and not pick bits, which fit in the gaps in the story presented in the aforementioned books.

Can you explain better on how evolution has affected the human race starting from Adam.

Osamabinladenik:
really?

If Evolution is not science so how come we are here and we haven't gone extinct?

Why did do we find fossils of dead organism that we cannot find again today?

I get your point. But does the fossils that are found today prove that ancient animals evolved into different kinds of animals today?

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