₦airaland Forum

I tried to resist re-posting on this specific thread, primarily due to the frustration that overwhelms one based upon the ignorance exhibited by a  specific poster; however, I cannot help but express my views yet again. 

@ Big Sis, I have truly tried to understand where you are coming from, even tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but it simply appears that you are determined and adamant to convey this message of yours that Africans are bad people.  Your underlying words of ridicule and criticism is extremely annoying.  It's funny, another poster asked you this question:

SweetNess:
if you have such views of our brothers and sisters in Africa and that has come to the US from Africa, why do you frequent this board?

Why have you failed to answer?  I think it is a valid question that truly needs to be answered by you.  Many of the posters who visit this forum come with positive views and informative discussions.  However, all I have seen you provide is negativity.  You pride yourself as one who is so knowledgable about the African culture and history, but I wonder if it is something you simply picked up from watching the Discovery Channel or bits you heared from people who do not know nor appreciate the African culture. 

Nonetheless, I will stop with my rants on you because I can understand how lost you may feel and I sympathize (considering you lack a true identifiable culture of your own).  However, if there is one piece of advice I will leave you with, it is this: love and respect yourself first, then can you appreciate what other cultures bring.  Sitting and criticizing what you do not know (and yes you do not know anything about the African culture as you have exemplified in your posts) only makes you appear foolish and bitter. 

Peace 

Big Sis,

You truly leave me dumb founded.  I am not one who seeks to call people names or characterize but you are a walking contradiction.  I earnestly do not believe you have valid a stance on this issue.  You take it upon yourself to join a forum that is primarily engrossed with Africans (hence the name Nairaland) and continue to insist that African men are users in some manner; however, you have the same mind to attempt to correct another poster when they make generalizations about Black American men. 

BigSis:
You had me until you said something about brothers being in and out of jail or being financially dependent on women.  That is a bigoted statement.  I am sista and I have never known brothers who were dependent on me financially or jailbirds.  It is like being buying into the global consensous that Nigeria is a nation of theives.

What a contradiction.  It saddens me when people who have such limited experience and knowledge regarding a certain culture are so quick to make generalizations.  Granted I applaud you for seeking to know and become aware of the African culture, but that acknowledgment is very limited.  I question your motives.  I understand that this may sound peculiar but I truly do question your intentions.  If you are so leery of African men then why do you associate with them?  Why do you seek to involve yourself with them?  You appear to be similar to a white person who has very limited knowledge about Blacks, but is quick to say, "I have black friends."  Do you not see how silly that is?  That my dear is how you come across. 

Please, if you truly want to learn and appreciate the African culture you must first learn to accept it as a whole, including all its good and all its faults.  This culture is one that runs so deep in many intricate manners.  To know the African culture is to love it.  However, to get to this point you need to preclude from protraying oneself as a person who knows it all, and actually open up your mind so as to gain the knowledge that is necessary and beneficial in order to have a better appreciation.  And sorry to be the one to burst your bubble but what you claim to know is very little.  What you know about African men is what you have heard from others with bad experiences (and believe me some of it may also be played up for show).  Oh, and by the way congratulations for being married to an African man and having one as a close friend, but remember what good does it do you when all you think is bad of the men that derive from their country? 

I have never believed in division and supporting the notion that certain people should only mingle with "their kind," but after encountering a person such as yourself I would highly promote you remaining with Black American men and leaving my African brothers alone.  But if I supported such an idea I would only be feeding into a very shallow and simple minded behavior as you have already demonstrated from your posts.  Therefore, my only advice to you is this: if you have any true genuine interest in learning or understanding this culture you need to have respect for it--that includes having respect for its people.  Again, despite your beliefs not ALL African men use Black American women for papers or are they with them for such.  And by the way, while you are making your generalizations I don't want you to forget about your fellow Black American sisters who intentionally and personally seek out foreigners to marry to help get papers--oh, did you forget about them?  Yes, they do exist and they do prowl seeking my African brothers--trust that! So if you are seeking to point fingers and make generalizations first look at your people and cast stones, then when you have cleared that mess may you seek to clear the mess of others.

@ White Lady,

You're welcome. Let me know how those work out.

Big Sis,

Iyke-D stated it superbly; however I must chime in my two-sense on this matter from a woman's perspective.  First, I must address your last comment:

BigSis:
Mouk,
Dat ain't a fair nor true statement. I did not create the the bad rep African men have. That is of your own doing. You need to address your brothers about this.

With all due respect, if you must cite my username, please have the decency to cite it correctly! 

Secondly, understand that the stereotypes which are drawn about African men are established from two areas: 1) outsiders of the situation and 2) insiders (those who were a part of the situation).  Yes, some (not ALL) African men have used some American women in order to establish themselves here in the states.  However, are you forgetting that this is simply the game that is played within every species and every culture?  It disturbs me when a woman is quick to critique and down-grade a certain culture with words so powerful they can be construed as destructive; however, turn around and praise that group with the same mouth that was initially used.  That is what you appear to be doing.  Yes, it is apparent that you have had some bad encounters with African men, either personally or being associated with someone that has undergone such experience.  But what upsets me is that you personally sought out an African forum to vocalize your opinion.  Are you free to voice your opinion?  Of course you are.  However, the forum and manner in which such views are vocalized need to be reviewed closely.  In essence, what you are doing is not right.  And that my dear is MY opinion.  I would not dare post myself on a Black American forum and state how I disagree with how people of that group behave and act--making generalizations that are not supported with relevant evidence, just pure generalizations.  And yes I would be entitled to my own views and opinions, but out of respect I would not do that.  And I truly believe that this is one of the major reasons that sets apart Africans from Black Americans.  However, that is a whole other thread that needs to be started.

Nonetheless, back to your comments.  It is apparent that you are an educated woman, so I will speak to you as such.  Understand that as human beings we are made up of various dynamics, mentalities, behaviors, and beliefs.  Not everyone is the same, despite how much society attempts to condition us all to behave as if we are.  African men are not like Black American men, nor are Italians similar to Latins.  What I am getting at is that you need to respect and appreciate such differences and restrain from grouping the behavior of certain individuals with that of an entire group. It simply is not fair and is unjust to those who legitimately are good individuals who do not adhere to the same behavior.  Would you not be offended if an African man stated, "all Black American women are loud and ghetto?  They are limited in their level of education, have no culture, and are nothing but a waste.  All they seek is to take your money and run all over you?"  Such  generalization you would reasonably find to be offensive wouldn't you?  I would hope so because I would find it to be offensive period (and I'm a Nigerian woman).  You see, it is so easy for outsiders to point fingers and cast stones at things that they are so unfamiliar in regards to--it only leaves uncomfortable and negative undertones amongst others. 

As Iyke-D stated, yes you do need to be commended for finding time to seek to learn and embrace the African culture in some manner (if not you would not be here on this forum).  Nevertheless, if you are truly seeking to gain some form of understanding about the African culture and fully be able to appreciate the associations that you make with African people, you will need to have a more open mind.  Simply discussing travels to Nigeria ("primarily Lagos" is not enough.  Seeking to break against the stereotypes that exist out there is more beneficial.   And in this way only will you come to see in the long run what it is that will make your understanding of other cultures so much more worthwhile.

Believe me I am not antagonizing you in any manner (that is not my intent).  I have dated Black American men, and from my experiences (some good, some bad) I will never vocalize to anyone that ALL Black American men are horrible, women beware, they will use you, etc.  Instead, I will state that I really didn't have a good experience with that particular individual and that he does not represent the behavior of the other multi-million Black American men out there in the world.  Hence, I believe you should consider addressing yourself regarding how you feed into the stereotypes that exist regarding my fellow African brothers, because it is close-minded statements which are articulated that taint the reputation of genuine and outstanding African men.

To be honest (and for the sake of not sounding rude) the post that was made was extremely ridiculous.  Forgive me for stating so, but you are a 35 year old woman who was married to an African man and have only dated African men.  You have experienced dating for all this time and you have not quite grasped the understanding as to why "African men" approach you (i.e., are attracted to you) more so than Black American men?  Is it me or is there something simply silly about this question?  Forgive me for asking but when you are dating these men, you mean to tell me that you have never bothered to find out as to why they are interested in you?  As I continued to read your post, I noticed that as others were providing you with advice, it appeared as if you knew the answer to your own question.

You are a Black-American woman from the south who was born and raised here in the States.  You have not ventured to Africa (I presume), however, you have not understood as to why Black-American men are not attracted to you?  There is seriously something wrong with that statement and idea.  I earnestly believe that it is just a purposeful attempt to find justification to something that you already know the answer to. 

My question to you then is this?  Do you have a problem with only African men being interested in you?  I believe that you do, otherwise you would not have made such a post.  You should save your time by not seeking answers from others making posts on this forum and simply ask the next African man that asks you out.  Then will you be able to ascertain a more concrete answer.  Remember, in your years of schooling and earning that Bachelor's Degree and some graduate work, you were taught how to solve a problem in the most reasonable and deductive manner.  I advice you to do so in this situation. 

And @ Big Sis, comments such as yours is why many of our African men get such bad reputations.  Not all African men are seeking Black-American women only for papers.  Don't get me wrong there are some out there, but not all.  However, you need to also understand that such characteristics and actions are common with men from all different countries who are desperately seeking legalization in the United States, and from men within this country who are seeking to simply use the woman for their own needs.  No offense if you got burned, but please restrain from making such generalizations--especially when you are making such discriminatory comments about our people on our forum ground.

jagenne:
This is hilarious.

So you're comparing a woman's body to Cash?

Big butt, phat boobs are equivalent to a guy's height and good looks.
So why sneak in pocket-size into it?

The comparison is not one's body to money. The comparison is in regards to desires. If a man desires a woman with a certain body type (and that only) does that make him right? However, if a woman desires a man with money that makes her wrong? The picture is much more broad than that. People need to understand that simply because a person desires a certain style, quality, or attribute in someone that they are seeking to be involved in does not make them bad--it is simply their choice. If you as the person being desired do not agree with the other's choice as to why they are interested in you, then let them know or simply do not be involved with them.

The point is women get harped on far too much for making choices regarding types of men they will be involved with; but we do not discourage men from doing something somewhat similar. That is a huge double standard which frankly is unfair.

Okay, now I see what you mean.  Do you incorporate cardio in your workout?  If not, you need to include some cardio at least between 25-30 min of cardio of some sort (preferably fat burning cardio).  Then, you need to do stomach crunches.  I prefer to use the machines at the gym that concentrate on the lower abdomen.  However, if you do not go to the gym you can do crunches at home, but be very watchful of your form.  Remember, with crunches the proper method is to perform it slow while concentrating on squeezing the lower abdomen muscles.  You cannot simply do your crunches fast as if you are doing sit-ups. 

Also, another favorite exercise of mine for that area are throw-downs.  This includes you lying on the floor.  Technically this exercise is to be performed with another person because as you lay down on your back, they are supposed to stand above your head (slightly behind your head) with their legs spread shoulder width apart (i.e., in angle with your shoulders).  You then grasp their ankles and lift both your legs up together at the same time (thus, you body is forming an "L" shape).  You must keep your legs together at all times.  Thus, what you do is lift your legs (remember they must be kept together at all times) toward the person standing above you.  Then they are supposed to throw your legs down as if throwing them down to the ground.  Now, here is the part that works the best: you are supposed to let your legs falldown back to the flat position on the floor, BUT do not let your legs touch the ground.  In essence, your legs should be at least an inch from touching the ground.  Do you get it?  This works wonders for your lower abs, and they tighten muscles there for tonage not bulk.  You continue to do this till you can't do it anymore. 

Good luck!

whitelexi:
Some men like women who are attracted to them for whome they are and not for what they are or have. So, if the woman doesnt know he's rich, she doesnt get attracted to the same person she woulda been interested in if she knew he was rich?

Well in a sense that will benefit the man because he will not waste his time with a woman that only wants him for what he has than whom he is. 

However, my question is does it make it any better for a man to want a woman for her body than who she is as a person?  I simply don't understand why a woman should get so much slack for desiring a man for the things he has, but we don't argue with a man because he desires a woman for what she has.  Sounds like pure contradiction in my opinion.

That is a strong assumption. Remember, there is a distinction between loving money and simply seeking to be financially successful. Before you make such a generalized statement (especially about Nigerians) I would be sure to consider who my audience is.

@ larger_20, I graduated from undergrad about 4 years ago. I just couldn't find a more random pic to post. I really need to scan more pictures.

Valid point and great argument. I am pleased to hear that a man has a positive view on this issue.

I actually agree with you on this topic; however, there are some men and women out there that believe that a woman who states that she wants a man who is well off as her simply she is seeking the money. However, it is okay for a man to articulate that he wants a woman with a big butt and big breast, and that is okay. Great observation. Please preach on to those who are not open-minded to respect other's desires and wishes, and see other sides of the coin.

You have to be more specific as to what your problem is. If your stomach is flat, then you shouldn't have problems with your lower abs. Are you looking to get more muscle definition in that area or are you trying to focus more on the "love handles?" You just have to be more specific as to what you are seeking help with.

[quote author=hot-angel link=topic=12228.msg341041#msg341041 date=1146945098]They (we) wont tell u what you should do to get us. WORK UR ASS OUT, and find out yourself. [/quote]I would normally agree with this one but then I have to remember that in situations where I am trying to get that special guy, I pray for some advice that will direct me and minimize the difficulty in achieving the prize. 

Therefore, my two-sense is this:  honesty and romance.  There is nothing more appealing than a man who is honest.  However, there is a distinction between being cruel-honest and being kind-honest.  In that I mean, cruel-honesty is where you don't care whose feelings you hurt when stating the truth.  While on the other hand, kind-honest is stating the truth but stating it in a manner that is considerate of the recipient's feelings.  The kind-honesty is truly appealing. 

Furthermore, romance.  Every woman loves a bit of romance; however, the question becomes as to what extent she desires it.  I personally prefer the simple type: phone calls just to say "hi," sweet emails here and there, and little spontaneous things.  No need to do extravegant things. 

All in all, I believe simply that any woman just wants to feel that she is wanted--truly and genuinely wanted--not lusted!

@ Blade

Believe me I don't mean any form of disrespect toward you, I'm simply saying that there are better ways to get across your views without sounding as if you are bashing another person's own.

Keep it lovely!

Blade:
No ma'am, I'm just looking out for your sorry asses. I AM A RICH MAN

Then why would you consider a woman to be "sorry" just simply because she desires a certain type of man. If that is the case all persons who seek certain attributes or qualities in a person is sorry. Would you prefer a woman who is educated, employed, and aware of what she wants to do in life? If so, then would you consider yourself sorry?

You need to understand that there is a certain level where you get where you must tolerate other people's opinions and desires, irrespective of your own views.

As a "rich man" what type of women do you look for? Do you truly believe that all women are simply seeking a rich man so that they can stay at home and lay their feet up, while spending the man's hard earned money? Granted there are some woman who are like that--but not all. Therefore, do not come with preconceived judgments and accusations where you apparently lack a tone of respect for things that you do not know. Keep an open mind and you will find that the world operates in a more congenial manner when we respect other's views, without trying to degrade them.

Blade:
All you gold seeking bitches better go to the mines and stop explaining your puttin a fella down with some lame ass excuse of successful, ambitious, comfortable bullshit. You see a bro tryin to make it you don't give a face but when you see some rich nigga you've seen your mr. right that's why you'll get treated like crap because his money is paying to get your ass

Sounds like someone is bitter. What let me guess, someone dissed you for a rich man?

Gridlock:
Rich people don't "wonder" whether they should marry another "rich" person.

I believe you are mistaken on that, rich always like to marry rich. Besides, it is not about looking at the pockets, it is simply an added quality about the person you want.

I question whether we have become so shallow as to believe that when a woman says that she wants a rich man, she is only seeking a man that will take care of her and provide her with a lifestyle that only money can buy.  Can a woman not want a "rich" man who is of her caliber, without being considered a "gold digger."

Hypo: Female executive of a top accounting firm, grossing a yearly salary of $300k.  She is educated with a few degrees from highly respected universities, well accomplished portfolio, and outstanding achievements.  She seeks a man who is rightly successful and financially well accomplished.  Does such a request constitute her as being a "gold digger?"

I truly don't understand this saddened perception and misconception that when a woman desires to marry a wealthy man she is only seeking his pockets and not his heart.  There are a multitude of reasons why marrying a rich man goes beyond the material aspect, and deeper into the compatability arena.

hot-angel, you speak the truth. Kuddos!!!

Skidoc:
They are all different. It is good to desire virtues but desire for material things in your partner is not too good.

Okay Skidoc, I hear you; however, is there anything wrong with desiring that your life partner have some materiality to them?  If I require that the man I marry be financially well-off, would I be considered as desiring something bad?  What is wrong with wanting a spouse that can take care of you--very well if I may add?  I am not stating that the person having money is the sole factor, instead it is one of many. 

I believe that having such a condition is similar to desiring certain attributes in the person.  Is it not?

Okay, interesting. Now let's say that one of the requirements is that he must be rich, very similar to desiring that he must be tall, kind, religious, etc. Does that then in turn make such a condition bad?

Here is my question:  Is it wrong to want to marry a successful man?  When I say, "successful," I mean a man who is well-off, established--in essence, rich?  Does that make a woman materialistic or does it simply mean that she has a certain standard that she wants in her husband. 

I understand that this issue may have been debated before, but if you all would please enlighten me I would truly like to hear your views on this topic.

[quote author=ope_emi link=topic=10015.msg282376#msg282376 date=1144676355]Mokwuosa, hmmmmmmmm! you got me thinking of what you said, I see where you are heading me to.

I know this is very much about me we are taking about, and I really thank you for the advice of me following my Heart. I have made a decision now, but what I am really concerned about is how I won't break the other girl's heart.

What do you think I would say that won't give the reason of the other girl getting heart broken. What do you think I should say [/quote]To be honest with you Ope_emi, there are no "right words" to use in such a situation--all you can be is honest, you will get much more respect from the girl you are choosing to let go than no respect at all.  You see, if we try to find the right way to justify our actions we only end up hurting those that we did not intend to hurt in the beginning. 

Frankly, if I were in your position I would just be upfront with the young lady and state the situation to her.  Granted, she may be upset with you or even hurt, but at the end she is aware and has a clear understanding as to why you have made such a judgment call.  There is no better way to cure the situation, it only matters at the end if you are making the most valid assessment that you believe will truly benefit all those involved--primarily yourself.  This is not a business deal we are speaking of, where if there is a breach of contract the parties may seek damages for lack of performance.  Instead we are speaking of relationships, where there is a clear understanding that people change thier minds and there will be some sort of pain at the end. 

I understand that you do not want to hurt this young lady; however, you will only hurt her more by not coming clean and telling her the complete and honest reason why you have made your choice.   

I wish you the best of luck and happiness in your pronouncement.  Nonetheless, I hope you have clearly thought your verdict out, because you know we women know how to get our men back when we want them!   

The funny thing about relationships is at times we do not know what we want, but there are times when we are sure of what we want.  You see only you can answer this question truthfully for yourself.  Your ex-girlfriend that you truly loved and cared for decides that she wants to break-up, for whatever reason she had given you.  As an intelligent man you decided to move on to another woman.  Now the issue presents itself whether the ex-girlfriend should be given a second chance with you; however, with the problem of hindering your current relationship.

To answer this question most earnestly, you must first remind yourself of what it is that this ex-girlfriend was all about that made you love her so.  If you find that the same feelings are there, and you are willing to tolerate the bad aspects of her, then by all means break off your current relationship and rekindle what was lost.  However, if you earnestly believe that either you have been hurt to strongly or perhaps this current girlfriend is exactly what you want, then remain as you are. 

You see, relationships are only as complex as we make them to be.  We know what we want; however, the confusion only sets in when we attempt to overly analyze these decisions.  Remember, at the end, no matter what decision you make someone will get hurt.  The main thing that should be of your concern is whether you will be the one.  Think wisely and listen to your heart, it will lead you to where you need to be.