₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
Jehovah sent Jesus, his role is to support his son by sending other angels to help him anytime he needs such support and encouragement {Matthew 4:11; Luke 22:43} at times Jesus needs to hear his father's direct words of encouragement! John 12:27-28

The Holy Spirit is God's active force that's used in so many ways whatever we are using technology to achieve today God have used His active force to do greater in times past and today, for instance when Christians are about to do what Jesus taught them in situations that's not palatable God uses His active force to supply them with power beyond what is normal {2Corinthians 4:7} it's also this spirit that's used to remind or teach them what to do in tight situations! John 14:26-27; 16:12-13

Jehovah is the Almighty God, Jesus is the human who perfectly reflects all the good qualities we need to know about our heavenly Father and God's Holy Spirit is the Active force God uses to help and support all His worshipers.

Whoever knows this is qualified to get baptized as one of us! Matthew 28:19

Regarding Jesus’ Relationship with Jehovah

6. If Jesus is only human and subordinate, why does Philippians 2:6-7 say He was "in the form of God" and "equal with God" before taking on human nature?


Angels are never described this way.

MaxInDHouse:
Jehovah sent Jesus, his role is to support his son by sending other angels to help him anytime he needs such support and encouragement {Matthew 4:11; Luke 22:43} at times Jesus needs to hear his father's direct words of encouragement! John 12:27-28

The Holy Spirit is God's active force that's used in so many ways whatever we are using technology to achieve today God have used His active force to do greater in times past and today, for instance when Christians are about to do what Jesus taught them in situations that's not palatable God uses His active force to supply them with power beyond what is normal {2Corinthians 4:7} it's also this spirit that's used to remind or teach them what to do in tight situations! John 14:26-27; 16:12-13

Jehovah is the Almighty God, Jesus is the human who perfectly reflects all the good qualities we need to know about our heavenly Father and God's Holy Spirit is the Active force God uses to help and support all His worshipers.

Whoever knows this is qualified to get baptized as one of us! Matthew 28:19

Regarding Jesus’ Divinity

3. In John 20:28, why does Thomas call Jesus "My Lord and my God" if Jesus is merely human and not divine?

Jehovah's Witnesses argue Jesus reflects Jehovah but deny His equality with God. This verse directly challenges their interpretation.



4. Why does Jesus say in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one"?

The Greek word for "one" (hen) here implies unity in essence, not merely purpose.



5. Why does Hebrews 1:8-9 refer to Jesus as God? ("But about the Son, He says, 'Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever.'"

This explicitly attributes divinity to the Son.

MaxInDHouse:
Jehovah sent Jesus, his role is to support his son by sending other angels to help him anytime he needs such support and encouragement {Matthew 4:11; Luke 22:43} at times Jesus needs to hear his father's direct words of encouragement! John 12:27-28

The Holy Spirit is God's active force that's used in so many ways whatever we are using technology to achieve today God have used His active force to do greater in times past and today, for instance when Christians are about to do what Jesus taught them in situations that's not palatable God uses His active force to supply them with power beyond what is normal {2Corinthians 4:7} it's also this spirit that's used to remind or teach them what to do in tight situations! John 14:26-27; 16:12-13

Jehovah is the Almighty God, Jesus is the human who perfectly reflects all the good qualities we need to know about our heavenly Father and God's Holy Spirit is the Active force God uses to help and support all His worshipers.

Whoever knows this is qualified to get baptized as one of us! Matthew 28:19

Regarding the Nature of the Holy Spirit

1. If the Holy Spirit is merely God's "active force," why does Scripture describe Him with personal attributes like speaking (Acts 13:2), teaching (John 14:26), and being grieved (Ephesians 4:30)?

Active forces like electricity or wind cannot express emotions or engage in conversation.



2. Why does Jesus refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" (a personal pronoun) in John 16:13-14?

This indicates personhood, not an impersonal force.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=133680929]Jehovah sent Jesus, his role is to support his son by sending other angels to help him anytime he needs such support and encouragement {Matthew 4:11; Luke 22:43} at times Jesus needs to hear his father's direct words of encouragement! John 12:27-28

The Holy Spirit is God's active force that's used in so many ways whatever we are using technology to achieve today God have used His active force to do greater in times past and today, for instance when Christians are about to do what Jesus taught them in situations that's not palatable God uses His active force to supply them with power beyond what is normal {2Corinthians 4:7} it's also this spirit that's used to remind or teach them what to do in tight situations! John 14:26-27; 16:12-13

Jehovah is the Almighty God, Jesus is the human who perfectly reflects all the good qualities we need to know about our heavenly Father and God's Holy Spirit is the Active force God uses to help and support all His worshipers.

Whoever knows this is qualified to get baptized as one of us! Matthew 28:19[/quote
Thank you for your detailed responses as always, again, Max.


Regarding the Nature of the Holy Spirit

1. If the Holy Spirit is merely God's "active force," why does Scripture describe Him with personal attributes like speaking (Acts 13:2), teaching (John 14:26), and being grieved (Ephesians 4:30)?

Active forces like electricity or wind cannot express emotions or engage in conversation.



2. Why does Jesus refer to the Holy Spirit as "He" (a personal pronoun) in John 16:13-14?

This indicates personhood, not an impersonal force.

Truthseeker10:
Nachmonides does the diagram in the screenshot below explain the structure of trinity?

While the diagram is helpful, it is not exhaustive and serves as a tool to aid understanding rather than a complete explanation of the Trinity.

gohf:
so his human nature was blemish and now is without blemish 😀

Is his obedience wasn't rewarded he just went back to who he wss or where he was, basically according to you Jesus went back to take his own seat 🤥

Yes, sir. Remember, His divine nature has always been perfect and unblemished—it is unchanging and eternal. However, in His human nature, He took on sin for our sake (2 Corinthians 5:21) and was obedient even to death on the cross. His obedience and sacrifice resulted in the glorification of His human nature, which was exalted to the right hand of the Father. This wasn't about Him 'going back to where He was,' but rather, His human nature being raised and glorified as the perfect Mediator for humanity.


It all falls back to whether or not you agree with the evidences of Jesus' divinity as God, replete in scriptures.

gohf:
oh okay, I suspected you both didn't have true faith in God nor His son, Jesus Christ but you should speak for yourself

Didn't know nachmonides was secretly JW

Haha

MaxInDHouse:
To alert Nachmonides that you're not of our faith!

Haha

MaxInDHouse:
His role in the salvation plan is CHRIST which means the anointed one.

Israelites have been expecting this saviour from the time God promised them through Moses! Deuteronomy 18:18-19

The others who have roles to play besides Jesus are humans that welcome and acknowledge him as the Christ {Matthew 19:28} his teaching and do the work he gave them {Matthew 16:18-19; 28:19-20} in fact they are going to have great names the type that even spirit sons of God (angels) never had {Revelations 12:14} after this twelve 144,000 who also got baptism of holy spirit will become corulers with them {Revelations 14:1} they are all going to live with Jesus in heaven! John 14:6

The rest of obedient mankind will enjoy God's everlasting blessings on planet earth under the heavenly government of Christ and his 144,000 corulers! Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:9-11,29

Please ignore the gohf guy he has nothing to do with what you and i are discussing.

What is the role of the person that sent Jesus?

And what is the role of the Spirit Jesus talks about?


And are they connected in any way?—their roles?

MaxInDHouse:
The secret is whoever fails to acknowledge Jesus' role in the salvation plan can't be saved. John 3:16-18

WHY?

Because we need a replacement for Adam who suppose to teach us what his father wants {Luke 3:38} but since Adam chose to be independent he can't teach us what the person he viewed as too demanding taught him that's why Jesus came to take his place {1Corinthians 15:45} no descendant of Adam can save us from Adamic sin {Psalms 49:6-9} because we have all fall short of God's glory! Romans 3:23

So a neutral person who doesn't inherit sin from Adam must sacrifice his sinless human life to redeem us {Luke 1:35} just an equivalent of Adam who is also a perfect human son of God! Luke 3:38

Therefore whatever we need to learn about God and His purposes is all embedded in Jesus who successfully completed his earthly mission as the CHRIST!

Bravo.

Why do you say it's his role, are there others that have roles besides Jesus?

MaxInDHouse:
My friend God hates arrogance when you can see that you're wrong yet trying to argue it simply means you don't want to be helped.

The word Adonia means Lord so whether you write it in capital letter or or small letter it's irrelevant!

LORD, Lord, lord all means the same thing it's the fraudulent translators of KJV that's using it to confuse people like you a title remains a title no matter how you brandish it but a name is unique.

So both Jehovah, Jesus, Abraham, Saul, David, Solomon were all addressed as Lord but it's their names that makes the difference since we know who each of them is.

What have I said that is wrong?

You mentioned Adonis, Adonis is from a greek mythology.

Adoni means lord or master in reference to a human figure.

Adonai means lord or master exclusively for Jehovah or Yahweh or God.

MaxInDHouse:
Isaiah 43:10 says:

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD (YWHW) , and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. KJV

The chosen servant teaching others who also became Jehovah's Witnesses is Jesus Christ {Revelations 1:5} that's why he is the Prince of Peace {Isaiah 9:6} who taught his fellow worshipers how to LOVE their neighbours {Mark 12:31} and members as he loved them! John 13:34-35

That's what the scriptures teaches which you can't find working elsewhere!

Awesome.

Alright, to know and believe him.

All that he has said/revealed through Jesus right?

MaxInDHouse:
Check your dictionary Adonai and Adonis means the same thing: Lord or Master

Scripture said, and I said Adoni, not Adonis.

Adoni is used to refer to a human figure.
Adonai is used almost, if not, exclusively for God or Yahweh or Jehovah alone.

MaxInDHouse:
Guy both means the same thing.

Alright I've heard you.

MaxInDHouse:
So is YHWH and Adoni the same?

No, Sir.

Yahweh is Jehovah, Adoni is a human figure.

MaxInDHouse:
That's why only Jehovah's Witnesses are unitedly doing what JEHOVAH says without arguing, insulting, abusing or cursing one another because the spirit of Jehovah is WORKING with us!

What has Jehovah called the Jehovah Witness to do according to scriptures?

Let's even look at it.

MaxInDHouse:
Therefore the divine name that KJV replaced with title "LORD" is WRONG as any listener can't distinguish who is who when the reader says
"the Lord said to my Lord"

I'm not loyal to the KJV, I'm loyal to the original text.

Leave the KJV, the original says Yahweh and Adoni.

MaxInDHouse:
What is the difference between Adonai Adonis?

Look the divine name YHWH was never shared with anyone else except the most high God which means it belongs to only one person but the title Adonai/Adonis means Lord or Master so David said:

YHWH said to my Adonai/Adonis "sit at my right hand until i make your enemies a stool for your feet"

Therefore the divine name that KJV replaced with title "LORD" is WRONG as any listener can't distinguish who is who when the reader says
"the Lord said to my Lord"

That's why only Jehovah's Witnesses are unitedly doing what JEHOVAH says without arguing, insulting, abusing or cursing one another because the spirit of Jehovah is WORKING with us!

The difference between "Adonai" and "Adoni" is that:

Adonai: This term is used in the Old Testament, predominantly in reference to God, and it can be translated as "My Lord" or "Lord" in the sense of acknowledging God's sovereign authority. It is a title of divine reverence and is often used when referring to God.

Adoni: This word, on the other hand, is used in the Bible to refer to a human "lord" or "master," as in "my lord" or "my master." It refers to a person with authority or rulership but not in the divine sense that "Adonai" does.


Do you see the difference?
Do you know the implications of this word used in Psalms 110:1 and the implications of Jesus quoting it in Matthew 26:44 and in Mark and Luke?

gohf:
This is you Nachmonides who wrote and I quote
"I, however do not accept that his divine nature was exalted."
🤣🤣👍

Yes I wrote both of them.

What's the error there, he wasn't exalted to a position above his divine nature doesn't mean his divine nature wasn't there and he had to be exalted to the position of his divine nature.


He is 100% God and 100% man.

His human nature was exalted to the position of his divine nature.
His human nature is now without limitations, blemish, weakness.

Modified:

[s]What's the error there, he wasn't exalted to a position above his divine nature doesn't mean his divine nature wasn't there and he had to be exalted to the position of his divine nature.
[/s] (Strike through)
To avoid confusion

MaxInDHouse:
So to help someone who is not Hebrew let's put the original words there:

Psalms 110:1

YWHW said to Adonai "sit at my right hand until i make your enemies a stool for your feet"

Check Joel 2:32
For everyone who calls on the name of YWHW will be saved.

Who is the Lord Paul talked about @ 1Corinthians 2:16 that we can't know His mind but we can have the mind of Christ?

Is it YHWH or JESUS?

Psalms 110:1 is not Adonai but Adoni

There's a difference.

Let's not go to other scriptures first but focus on this one, if we go, we'll digress much.

Yes we'll talk about the others but let's look at what the Psalms 110:1 says.

Do you see that in the Original Hebrew it is Adoni used?

gohf:
but you said he has two natures right, one was honored while the other was restored, so which of the two is at the right hand of God or it both of them 😁

This is what I said:

His exaltation after His earthly mission was a restoration of glory, not a promotion beyond His nature.

gohf:
so his human nature was honored so who is at the right hand of God his human nature or his divine nature?
🤣

Jesus is.

gohf:
you think you can confuse people by saying restoration is exaltation to mask the fact that Jesus was exalted and honored. Now not because he lacked honor but he was given greater honor but you don't want to accept that Jesus was given greater honor

I agree he was given greater honour; his human nature was.

That's why we humans have the possibility of getting saved when we believe in his death burial and resurrection.

I, however do not accept that his divine nature was exalted.

Do you see the difference now?

It all boils down to whether you see him as God or not from the scriptures
Back to square 1.
If you don't see it, you'll forever argue it.

MaxInDHouse:
Do you support the rendering of the divine name as Lord?
If so how do you pronounce the two lords @ Psalm 110:1 differently?

That's a question of the English language.
If I were Hebrew you wouldn't ask me.

Since I speak English, I would ask; is one person speaking to himself or another.

It's not a matter of support, JW's use of Jehovah is not wrong or bad.


What I'm saying is that in the Hebrew there's a distinction;
The distinction between "LORD" (YHWH) and "Lord" (Adoni) in Psalm 110:1

gohf:
or you were quick to respond this time, why are you avoiding the other posts 😁😀

I said I will respond to you on that.

I responded to this one because it is directly related to what Max and I are discussing and I felt I should touch it.

The others I didn't feel like it.

Nachmonides:
It doesn't change anything, he wasn't exalted to a place of authority above his nature, he simply "un-emptied" himself.

Paul provides a framework for understanding Jesus’ exaltation in Philippians 2:5-11:

Humiliation:

Jesus "emptied Himself" (kenosis), not by ceasing to be divine, but by taking on human form and submitting to the limitations of humanity.

He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:6-8 ).


Exaltation:

After His resurrection, God exalted Him and gave Him "the name that is above every name" (Philippians 2:9).

This exaltation is not about increasing Jesus' divine nature but about affirming His work as the Messiah.


Jesus’ exaltation primarily pertains to His human nature and His role as the Messiah, not His divine nature.

Think about it, God, Jesus, the Son of God, emptied himself.

If he can empty himself, don't you think he can un-empty himself?

Jesus explicitly claimed that He would raise His own body:

John 2:19-21:
“Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.’ But the temple He had spoken of was His body.”

Here, Jesus clearly states that He will raise His own body after His death.


John 10:17-18:
“The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

Jesus emphasizes His divine authority to both lay down His life and take it up again, pointing to His active role in His resurrection.




If you want, we can also see where the Father and the Holy Spirit also had a hand in his resurrection. Yet Jesus said he will raise it up HIMSELF.

Nachmonides:
It doesn't change anything, he wasn't exalted to a place of authority above his nature, he simply "un-emptied" himself.

Paul provides a framework for understanding Jesus’ exaltation in Philippians 2:5-11:

Humiliation:

Jesus "emptied Himself" (kenosis), not by ceasing to be divine, but by taking on human form and submitting to the limitations of humanity.

He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:6-8 ).


Exaltation:

After His resurrection, God exalted Him and gave Him "the name that is above every name" (Philippians 2:9).

This exaltation is not about increasing Jesus' divine nature but about affirming His work as the Messiah.


Jesus’ exaltation primarily pertains to His human nature and His role as the Messiah, not His divine nature.

Note that I have been saying he has 2 natures.

100% man and 100% God


His divine nature always is static, his human nature was exalted to a place, or position above, a position of authority.


Signifying man's restoration to glory, which man conceded to the evil one in the beginning.

Basically, man fell in the First Adam, man rises in the Second or Last Adam.

Nachmonides:
Yes I wrote it. What about it?

It doesn't change anything, he wasn't exalted to a place of authority above his nature, he simply "un-emptied" himself.

Paul provides a framework for understanding Jesus’ exaltation in Philippians 2:5-11:

Humiliation:

Jesus "emptied Himself" (kenosis), not by ceasing to be divine, but by taking on human form and submitting to the limitations of humanity.

He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross (Philippians 2:6-8 ).


Exaltation:

After His resurrection, God exalted Him and gave Him "the name that is above every name" (Philippians 2:9).

This exaltation is not about increasing Jesus' divine nature but about affirming His work as the Messiah.


Jesus’ exaltation primarily pertains to His human nature and His role as the Messiah, not His divine nature.

gohf:
Please this is also you that wrote this
"+++ Action of Sitting:

Both agree on the command to "sit at My right hand," representing honor, authority, and exaltation."

Yes I wrote it. What about it?

Nachmonides:
Hebrew (Masoretic Text)

יְהוָה נְאֻם לַאדֹנִי שֵׁב לִימִינִי עַד־אָשִׂית אֹיְבֶיךָ הֲדֹם לְרַגְלֶיךָ



> Transliteration

Yahweh ne'um la'Adoni shev limini ad ashit oyvecha hadom leraglecha




> Literal Translation

"The LORD said to my Lord: 'Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.'"


Comparison Between KJV and NWT

King James Version (KJV)

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

New World Translation (NWT)

"Jehovah declared to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.'"



+ Divine Name (YHWH):

KJV: Uses "The LORD" (in all caps), the traditional way of representing the Hebrew name Yahweh without pronouncing it.

NWT: Explicitly uses "Jehovah," which is the transliteration of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH).


++ Second "Lord" (Adoni):

Both versions translate Adoni as "my Lord," recognizing it as a title of respect and authority.



+++ Action of Sitting:

Both agree on the command to "sit at My right hand," representing honor, authority, and exaltation.



++++ Enemies as a Footstool:

Both convey the same imagery of God making the enemies of the Lord (Messiah) subordinate, though the NWT phrases it slightly differently ("a stool for your feet" instead of "thy footstool".


The main difference lies in the rendering of the divine name. The NWT prioritizes the use of "Jehovah" to reflect God's personal name, while the KJV follows traditional Jewish reverence by substituting it with "LORD."

The overall meaning remains consistent between both translations, emphasizing God's promise to exalt the Messiah and subdue His enemies.

Interestingly,

Jesus quotes the same Psalms 110:1 in Matthew 22:44



Matthew 22:44 (quoting Psalm 110:1)
"The Lord said to my Lord, ‘Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.’”

Jesus applies this verse to Himself, identifying as the "Lord" (Kyrios) to whom Yahweh speaks.

"Kyrios" is the Greek counterpart for Hebrew "Adonai" or "Adoni"

John 20:28
"Thomas answered and said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’"

Here, Thomas explicitly calls Jesus "Lord" (Kyrios) and "God" (Theos), affirming His divinity.


Here's the immediate context to V.44

Matthew 22:41-46

+ The Pharisees' Questioning:
Earlier in Matthew 22, Jesus is confronted by the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Herodians, each trying to trap Him with difficult theological or political questions (e.g., about paying taxes, marriage in the resurrection, and the greatest commandment).


++ Jesus’ Counterquestion:
After answering their challenges, Jesus turns the tables and asks the Pharisees a question about the identity of the Messiah:
“What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”

The Pharisees believed the Messiah would be a descendant of King David, a political and earthly ruler who would restore Israel's kingdom.

However, they did not fully grasp the divine nature of the Messiah.

The Pharisees respond: “The son of David.”



+++ Jesus Quotes Psalm 110:1:
Jesus challenges their understanding by quoting Psalm 110:1:
“The LORD said to my Lord, ‘Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet.’”
Then He asks,
“If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?”

By quoting Psalm 110:1, Jesus reveals that the Messiah is more than just a human descendant of David.

In the psalm, David refers to the Messiah as "my Lord" (Adoni), implying the Messiah is greater than David and has divine authority.


++++ The Pharisees’ Silence:
The Pharisees are unable to answer, and from that point, they stop questioning Him.

Jesus connects the psalm's imagery of sitting at God’s right hand to His own role as the exalted, divine Messiah.

This challenges the Pharisees’ limited, earthly view of the Messiah and points to Jesus’ dual nature as both human (a descendant of David) and divine (Lord over David).

MaxInDHouse:
Let's figure out something here.

Please read Psalms 110:1 and explain.

Hebrew (Masoretic Text)

יְהוָה נְאֻם לַאדֹנִי שֵׁב לִימִינִי עַד־אָשִׂית אֹיְבֶיךָ הֲדֹם לְרַגְלֶיךָ



> Transliteration

Yahweh ne'um la'Adoni shev limini ad ashit oyvecha hadom leraglecha




> Literal Translation

"The LORD said to my Lord: 'Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.'"


Comparison Between KJV and NWT

King James Version (KJV)

"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

New World Translation (NWT)

"Jehovah declared to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.'"



+ Divine Name (YHWH):

KJV: Uses "The LORD" (in all caps), the traditional way of representing the Hebrew name Yahweh without pronouncing it.

NWT: Explicitly uses "Jehovah," which is the transliteration of the Tetragrammaton (YHWH).


++ Second "Lord" (Adoni):

Both versions translate Adoni as "my Lord," recognizing it as a title of respect and authority.



+++ Action of Sitting:

Both agree on the command to "sit at My right hand," representing honor, authority, and exaltation.



++++ Enemies as a Footstool:

Both convey the same imagery of God making the enemies of the Lord (Messiah) subordinate, though the NWT phrases it slightly differently ("a stool for your feet" instead of "thy footstool".


The main difference lies in the rendering of the divine name. The NWT prioritizes the use of "Jehovah" to reflect God's personal name, while the KJV follows traditional Jewish reverence by substituting it with "LORD."

The overall meaning remains consistent between both translations, emphasizing God's promise to exalt the Messiah and subdue His enemies.