₦airaland Forum

Truthseeker10:
Just rest if you would not explain. Bye bye.

Alright, have a good day.

Truthseeker10:
Oga explain your John 1:1-14. Go straight to the point without contradiction.

You can read, read it and tell me what you understand.

I want to know your conclusion based on what you have read.

Truthseeker10:
🤣🤣🤣see funny man. You said essence is God, person is father, son and holy spirit which are connected to one essence(God).
John 1:18 says no one has seen God(essence) not Father(person). So why are you trying to seperate Jesus(person) from essence(God) that no one has seen?

Like I said, I only entertained questions for the sake of it. I can answer all of your questions, using scriptures.

However, I want to ask, what is your understanding of John 1:1-14, concerning Jesus, the Word?

This foundation should be settled before any further discussion.

gohf:
🫡 you have driven nachmonides away with the truth and now the same may happen to steep 😂

Good day Gohf, how are you?

Haha.

Not so, you and TruthSeeker's questions have been based on the disagreement of what John 1:1-14 says, how that the Word became flesh, and John letting us know that the Word that became flesh is Jesus, and we know from scriptures Jesus is not the Father.

You both need to come to terms with that scripture first, realise the gravity of that scripture.

Your questions/observation have been in denial of John 1:1-14

I just decided to entertain questions for the sake of it, even though the foundation was faulty.

Truthseeker10:
Oga go straight to the point without contradictions.

Lol. You still won't get it. Wrap your mind around John 1:1-14 first.



The Word was God, that Word became flesh.

LordReed:
External confirmation with hard evidence. Like evidence of a global catastrophic flood (which we don’t have) or repeatability of some miracle, like someone turning water to wine in a controlled setting (which I bet someone will say you can't test god). This is in general, all evidence must be evaluated on their own merits on a case by case basis.

The Bible has external confirmation with hard evidence.

I have talked about the global catastrophic event and the idea of repeatability of miracles. How that some things are not verifiable through scientific means, how that science is limited.

And that is fine, but that doesn't make what is true not true because science disagrees, or hasn't discovered, or evolved to understanding.

Truthseeker10:
Ah na wa for this Oga oo....so identity is now split into two. Personhood and essence. Now let's throw away the word identity and stick with Personhood and essence.
So is John 1:18 saying that no one has seen the essence(God) at anytime even though Jesus was on earth with the same essence and was seen?

I'm about to send a long text. — will you read it?

LordReed:
Then you should not have asked me the first question you did. I am not interested in wranglings about religious truth.

Then you should have accused it from the standpoint of your scientific beliefs.

A religious man could play the same card at your science for failing to pass their religious methods of verification.

Modified: You should have accused it of failing on certain scientific grounds.

Truthseeker10:
So how can Father and Jesus not share the same identity na According to your teachings here since?

Knowing that identity can be understood in essence, and personhood

They do not share the same identity of person because their roles and how they related are different in scriptures.

Truthseeker10:
Oga is the identity 'God' and Are two persons linked to it? Yes or no? If yes, how can Jesus and God not share the same identity?

The identity is God, the identity that they share here is the essence.
Yes they share the same essence, or if you want, are "linked" to it.

Jesus and God the father cannot share the same identity if the identity means personhood, but if it means essence, then they share that same identity.

Truthseeker10:
Ahhh....baba clarifier so the two persons are no longer linked to the "God identity" in John 1:1?

Lol.

They are. They share the same identity.

Truthseeker10:
Your earliest submission was that two persons linked to the "God identity". So why are you lying?

Lol, back and forth.

Yes, linked to the God identity. And I clarified that identity.

Truthseeker10:
Do you agree that you describe 'identity' as 'God' earlier?

Yes, and I clarified what the identity means.

Truthseeker10:
oga you are a confusionist and a liar. You said two persons linked to "God identity" not essence.

You're still bringing up this issue of identity and essence.

Truthseeker10:
You did not add essence in the bracket.

Oga you said before that two persons are linked to "God identity" so how come that "God" is no longer the identity but now essence?

Remember, I said

There are 2 persons, which share the same essence.

This is what I said.

I said that the 2 persons are God the father, and God the son

Their essence being God.

So God the father as a person has an essence which is God

Truthseeker10:
Oga you said earlier that 'God' is the linked 'identity' of the two persons na. Which kind confusion be this?

Yes, I said earlier that they both (2 persons) share one essence which is God, that is the identity of their essence.

I did not say that shared essence is the sum total of both person(s) and essence.

Truthseeker10:
Kindly correct your error In bold.

It is not an error sir.

Please tell me the error.
I said that is how I understand your question.

Truthseeker10:
🤣🤣🤣 So identity is no longer 'God'?

No, that's not what I said, I said Identity encompasses essence (God) and person (father and son).

Based on that idea, I used it to link to each element in your question.

Your question is saying if identity (essence; God) is the sum total... I didn't say essence is the sum total, I said Identity is the sum total.

Truthseeker10:
If identity(God) is the sum total of persons(Father and Son) and essence, how come Jesus(person) is not the same identity(God) as God(identity) the Father(person) but in essence?

Based on what I've been saying, this is how I have rephrased your question:

If identity (person, and essence) is the sum total of persons(Father and Son) and essence (God), how come Jesus(person) is not the same identity (person) as God the Father(person) but in essence?


This is how I understand your question based on what I've said about identity, do I go on to answer this?

DaddyCoool:
But why is God being called Man. Point is, Man must also mean God - hence, "Son of Man" actually means "Son of God"

Exactly, why is God being referred to as Man.

Why? — I ask the JWs who are afraid of John 1:1 and what it means


They are also afraid of comparing Daniel 7:31-34 with Revelation 1:4-8, and Revelation 22:12-15

Essence has its own meaning, Person (s) has its own meaning.

Identity has its own meaning.

Yes, that's what I mean.

Nachmonides:
Yes identity is different from Persons and Essence

But it encompasses Persons and Essence.


I'm really trying to understand what is confusing there.


Identity is the sum total of person(s) and essence

It doesn't mean person (s) stand-alone, and essence stand-alone. I mean, in definition.

Identity can be understood in person, it can be understood in essence.

Identity doesn't mean person in definition, it doesn't mean essence in definition.

Truthseeker10:
Look at someone that said that identity encompasses essence and persons. This guy is just so confused.

Yes identity is different from Persons and Essence

But it encompasses Persons and Essence.


I'm really trying to understand what is confusing there.


Identity is the sum total of person(s) and essence

It doesn't mean person (s) stand-alone, and essence stand-alone. I mean, in definition.

Truthseeker10:
You are a confused individual filled with contradictions.

Alright, Sir. I have heard you, Sir.

DaddyCoool:
More than once. See below. And nowhere is He called "Man of peace". But in the NT He is totally about peace. Makes you suspect God of OT is a bit different from God of NT

What do you have to say about this:

Isaiah 9:6, the prophecy about the coming Messiah refers to Him as the "Prince of Peace." (Alright you may argue that he's talking about the coming Messiah)


What about

Psalm 29:11 says, "The Lord gives strength to his people; the Lord blesses his people with peace."

Numbers 6:26 contains the famous blessing: "The Lord turn his face toward you and give you peace."

Truthseeker10:
Oga what exactly is your identity? Is 'God' no longer the identity?

If identity encompasses essence and persons, why did you say that Jesus(person) does not have the identity(God) of God(identity) the father(person) but the essence.

Go back and read the whole thread. I have answered this question. You're still asking the same thing.

DaddyCoool:
More than once. See below. And nowhere is He called "Man of peace". But in the NT He is totally about peace. Makes you suspect God of OT is a bit different from God of NT

I thought you meant the phrase "man of war"


That only appears once.

Your argument about peace is a logical fallacy.

Modified:

It appears twice

Nachmonides:
It's you that misunderstood it. It was clear to me who understands that identity encompasses both essence and person. Since you highlighted it, I began to clarify it. I would not have clarified it if you hadn't highlighted it.

Why would you just take what I'm saying, I expect you to do your findings and bring your argument if you disagree.

If context is to be noted, from the beginning of this thread, my take has always been that God is both Jesus the Son and God the Father.

I never strayed from this.

Truthseeker10:
You are trying to play smart. You clearly said that God is the identity of which two persons(father ansld son) are linked to in John 1:1. So why should I ask about what identity means again?

later you claimed there is a difference between identity and essence.

You said Jesus(person) does not have the identity(God) of God(identity) the father(person)

Can you see your confusion?

It's you that misunderstood it. It was clear to me who understands that identity encompasses both essence and person. Since you highlighted it, I began to clarify it. I would not have clarified it if you hadn't highlighted it.

Why would you just take what I'm saying, I expect you to do your findings and bring your argument if you disagree.

Truthseeker10:
Oga you are contradicting yourself. You said identity means God which is different from 2 persons(father and son) in John 1:1 and that two persons are linked to the God identity.

You also claimed that Jesus and God the father do not share the same identity but essence.

Later you said that Father and Son share same essence or identity.

so why are you playing smart by causing confusion with your terms. Can't you see how funny you are?

Then if you understood the meaning of identity, you could have asked, identity is broad and it encompasses the person and essence.

Modified:
Then if you understood the meaning of identity, you could have asked why I would say identity is different from person knowing identity is broad and it encompasses the person and essence.

What I did not tell you was that identity can be understood in person and essence.

Truthseeker10:
You are a liar for what you wrote in bold. You have given clear distinction to the three terms.
You said Jesus and God the father do not have the same identity but the same essence.
You also said that persons(God and father) are linked to God(identity).

Go and play, you have nothing to say.
I have said "I thought I was speaking to one who understands what identity means", I have also said "I can say 1 identity to mean - God, 2 identities to mean - God the father, God the Son"

I have clarified what the confusion in identity was, for you.