₦airaland Forum

Truthseeker10:
Oga you said person is different from God(identity) so describe God.

You're not following.

Identity can be understood in essence, can be in person

Are you asking for his essence?

I have described his person: The father and the son.

Nachmonides:
So I can choose to use identity only for essence, or personhood.

Or I can use it for both.

Here I answered your question Truthseeker10

Truthseeker10:
Oga is father not a person? I said describe God.

God is a person

Who is this person? - He is the father
Who is this person? - He is the son
Who is this person? - He is the word
Who is this person? - He is Jesus

Nachmonides:
You lack an understanding of identity


Identity encompasses essence and personhood.

Identity answers both the question: "What are you?" (essence) and "Who are you?" (personhood).

So I can choose to use identity only for essence, or personhood.

Or I can use it for both.

Truthseeker10:
But you also said that Jesus and God do not have the same identity but they have the same essence. Why the contradiction?

You lack an understanding of identity


Identity encompasses essence and personhood.

Identity answers both the question: "What are you?" (essence) and "Who are you?" (personhood).

Truthseeker10:
So God is no longer an identity that two persons are linked to?🤣🤣🤣 na wa for this man oo.

Oga describe God not person.

I thought we were talking about Jesus as is the focus of John 1:1

Oh, let me add to it.

Who is this person? - He is the Father

Truthseeker10:
But you said here that Jesus and God share the same essence or identity. So why the contradiction?

Yes, his essence is his identity of what he is ( He is God)

Truthseeker10:
.I said describe 'God' not 'He'.

God is a person.

Who is this person - He is God
Who is this person - He is the word
Who is this person - He is the son

Truthseeker10:
Oga John said no one has seen 'God'. What 'God' identity was he referred to?

He was referring to the identity of God that could not be seen.

Because he told us the Word, Jesus was God, and was seen.

Truthseeker10:
Use this example to describe 'God' in John 1:1.

Who is He? - He is God
Who is He? - He is the Son
Who is He? - He is the Word

Truthseeker10:
Is God no longer Jesus?

Did not say that person and identity is different, that John 1:1 is talking of 2 persons linked to the God identity.....so why the contradiction now?

There are no contradictions.
I have explained it, Jesus is God, and he is the Son.

Who are you? - You're a human being
Who are you? - You are the president
Who are you? - You are Donald Trump

Nachmonides:
They share the same identity in Essence.

They don't share the same identity in Person.

Identity asks, who are they?

Who are they? - They both are God

Who are they? - Jesus the Son, God the Father.

They share the same identity in Essence.

They don't share the same identity in Person.

Truthseeker10:
Oga you said Jesus and God the father don't have the same identity na...why the contradiction?
.
You also said that John 1:1 talks of 2 persons being linked to the God identity. So where are you getting your 'different identities in person' from?

Na wa for you oo.

I thought I was communicating to one who understands what identity, essence, and person is.


I'm not wrong in my statement.

Truthseeker10:
Oga you said Jesus and God the father don't have the same identity na...why the contradiction?
.
You also said that John 1:1 talks of 2 persons being linked to the God identity. So where are you getting your 'different identities in person' from?

Na wa for you oo.

Yes they don't have the same identity in person, in that Jesus is the Son, God is the Father.

Truthseeker10:
Ah....where did you get the interpretation in bold from? Kindly quote a verse.

You Said Jesus is the son, God is the father. Is God no longer Jesus? What kind of confusion is this?

Were you not the one that just said that Jesus and the father share the same essence or identity?


Why are you just contradicting yourself up and
down?

Go and do your research on what identity, person, essence means.


They both share the same identity in that they are both God


They both have different identities in persons.

MaxInDHouse:
So can you point out any recorded history the Bible mentioned that's happening today that's not also found in the Quran?

Note what the atheist told you:

"You are using the book to authenticate itself"

So we don't need something that's recorded and happened in the Bible because it's not in our own time to verify but if something is recorded in the Bible and is happening today everyone will know that it is not manipulated!

I say that to appeal to their senses.

If they want the physical, the bible has it. It wrote about Jesus and his death and resurrection before he appeared in his incarnation to fulfill it.
The existence of Jesus can also be verified from outside the Bible through various writings and archaeological findings.

LordReed:
There is no evidence of a global catastrophic flood. Simple. The attempt to equate evidence for the Big Bang with an ancient tale is flat out rubbish. All it takes is a tiny bit of reasoning to know that any ancient civilisation that developed near a body of water will experience flooding and therefore have stories about floods. To leap from that to all flood stories are about some great global flood is absurditiy pro max.

I only gave my perspective on the scientific side, to appeal to your senses.

The Bible is not meant to be a book to be scientifically proven. It's meant to pass a message across. It may therefore include things that may or may not be able to be scientifically proven.

Truthseeker10:
You are very funny oo....were you not the one claiming that essence and identity is not the same and that Jesus is not the same identity as the father?

Look at your submission below in the screenshot. You are very funny oo.

Yes, I can see it.

Jesus and the father share the same identity, and they don't share the same identity at the same time.


1 identity: They both are God

2 identities: Jesus is the Son, God is the Father.


Identity is different from Persons, and Essence.

MaxInDHouse:
Ọmọ don't be deceived the Quran also have the same thing Muhammad prophesy many things that's happening today and he called it "END TIME EVENTS"
So if we are to go by your criteria both books are authentic, shey?

I said recording history before it happens, not prophesying what is going to happen.



Let me explain:

Recording history before it happens refers to the Bible’s ability to prophesy and describe events that would occur many years later with remarkable accuracy. This is especially significant because it implies a higher perspective of reality, where God, being outside of time, can reveal future events in the present.

Isaiah 46:9-10: “I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.”

This verse emphasizes that God can declare the end from the beginning, a clear affirmation of divine omniscience and control over history. And he can also say what is to come (prophecy)


While many religious texts, including the Quran, contain prophecies, the Bible's ability to describe history in advance, often with intricate details that later align with historical events.

The Quran, for example, has prophetic teachings about the end times and events to come, but it doesn’t emphasize the concept of recording history before it happens in the same way the Bible does. The Bible contains specific instances where future historical events, like the rise and fall of nations, were written down well in advance, which adds a layer of credibility to the divine inspiration of the Bible.

Nachmonides:
Persons: In the context of John 1:1, the Father and the Son are two persons within the Trinity. They have distinct personhoods but share the same essence or divinity.

Identities: Identity can be seen as the way one perceives or understands a person or being. In the case of John 1:1, while the Father and Son are distinct persons, they share the same identity in that they are both fully God—they share the same essence. The Father is not the Son, but the Son is fully divine, and thus, they share the same divine identity.

John 1:1 speaks of two persons—God the Father and God the Son—but they share the same divine essence or identity.

I'm not wrong when I say 2 identities, or 2 persons


2 identities in that they are distinct persons.

I can also say 1 identity in that they both are God.

Truthseeker10:
So was John telling us in John 1:1 that there are two seperate identities(God) or that the two identities(God) were the same?


Below in the screenshot was your previous submission. Kindly compare it to what you wrote up there.

Was John talking of 2 identities or 2 persons?

Persons: In the context of John 1:1, the Father and the Son are two persons within the Trinity. They have distinct personhoods but share the same essence or divinity.

Identities: Identity can be seen as the way one perceives or understands a person or being. In the case of John 1:1, while the Father and Son are distinct persons, they share the same identity in that they are both fully God—they share the same essence. The Father is not the Son, but the Son is fully divine, and thus, they share the same divine identity.

John 1:1 speaks of two persons—God the Father and God the Son—but they share the same divine essence or identity.

MaxInDHouse:
That's exactly what no atheist or agnostic can deny not just quoting LETTERS out of a book that's not revered by all.

Paul said in his letter to Christians in Corinth:


He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. ‭2 Corinthians 3:6 NIV‬

What's the import of this statement?

Paul knew how each Judaist used to ARGUE using the scriptures to back his personal opinion so it's like LETTER or CODE that each person holds so dear yet they keep fighting and killing one another over the CODE but what of God's SPIRIT?
This is what unites believers to WORK together as ONE {John 17:22} so that no atheist or agnostic can deny the evidence that's obvious to everyone not just what is read in a book to back the same book but FINE WORKS that's SEEN globally {Matthew 5:14-16} everywhere true Christians are doing what Jesus taught them Unitedly! Act 1:8

All of you are quoting the scriptures for sure but you can never ever find one person to join you in doing what Jesus commanded his disciples.

I remember my friend in Deeperlife back then he asked me:
"How do you (Jehovah's Witnesses) keep the preaching and teaching work at heart so that you're always doing it? I tried to organize my people in Deeperlife but each time we start it doesn't last more than a week or two before everyone gets tired but you Jehovah's Witnesses never gets tired of the work. Please what is the secret?"
Back then i was still new among the JWs and i'm not good in sighting the scriptures but today i know why no other group can WORK together no matter how much you people try it always end up in arguments and each person will go his or her own way justifying himself or herself while the assignment Jesus gave his disciples is left only for Jehovah's Witnesses! Matthew 10:11-13; 28:19-20; Luke 10:6

The Bible is the only book in the world that has the audacity to hang its credibility and authenticity on its record of recording history before it happens.

LordReed:
External confirmation with hard evidence. Like evidence of a global catastrophic flood (which we don’t have) or repeatability of some miracle, like someone turning water to wine in a controlled setting (which I bet someone will say you can't test god). This is in general, all evidence must be evaluated on their own merits on a case by case basis.

Asking for hard evidence of a global flood in the same manner as we ask for evidence of the Big Bang highlights a parallel in terms of scientific inquiry and the limits of empirical evidence.

Big Bang evidence includes cosmic background radiation, the expansion of the universe, and observations of distant galaxies. These provide indirect evidence that supports the Big Bang theory, but the event itself cannot be directly observed, as it occurred billions of years ago.

Similarly, evidence for the global flood could include regional geological changes or ancient flood myths from various cultures, but definitive proof of a global event like the flood as described in Genesis is not present. The event itself is not observable, and much of the evidence would be indirect, if it exists.

Science is simply limited to understand realms outside it, and evolving.

Truthseeker10:
So Jesus and the father have two different identities(God)?

So please where does John 1:18 mention essence(God)?

Since there's a God was with God statement in John 1:1, he's telling us one person was with another person. 2 identities. And in same breadth, John tells us the word was God. He's telling us that the word is no different from God he was with.


What essence are you looking for in John 1:18?
You're looking for the word Essence?

LordReed:
External confirmation with hard evidence. Like evidence of a global catastrophic flood (which we don’t have) or repeatability of some miracle, like someone turning water to wine in a controlled setting (which I bet someone will say you can't test god). This is in general, all evidence must be evaluated on their own merits on a case by case basis.

Balderdash, I'll first tackle the method you have mentioned, which is, it has to be scientific. That's a dishonest thing to do.

Science is limited to the physical realm and is not equipped to evaluate or prove concepts that are outside of it, such as faith, morality, or divine inspiration. These are not always testable or repeatable in a laboratory setting.

For instance, the existence of God, the purpose of life, or the afterlife are metaphysical or philosophical questions that go beyond the purview of scientific experimentation.

Truth is not limited to only what can be scientifically proven; some truths exist in experience, relationships, and faith that cannot be captured through empirical means.
The main problem with looking for scientific truth in religious matters is that science and religion operate in different realms. Science seeks to explain the physical world using observation and evidence, while religious truths often deal with spiritual, moral, and metaphysical questions that are not always measurable or observable. This doesn't mean that scientific truth is irrelevant, but it does highlight that there are different kinds of truth that require different approaches to understanding.

Truthseeker10:
Oga.....so is Jesus the same God(identity) that he was with in John 1:1 according to your explanation?

Essence is what a being is, and identity is who a being is.

He is not the same identity as God, the father.
He is however, of the same essence ( divine nature).

Nachmonides:
A separate godship would imply that there are two or more distinct divine natures or gods that are not unified in essence or being. In other words, each "godship" would refer to a separate, independent, and fully autonomous divine entity. This concept would conflict with the idea of monotheism, which is the belief in one God.



Separate godships are often associated with polytheism, the belief in multiple gods. In polytheistic religions, gods are distinct beings, each with its own divine nature, authority, and role.

For example, in ancient Greek or Roman mythology, gods like Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades were viewed as separate beings with their own realms and powers.

No, John1:1 is not talking of more than one Godship.

Truthseeker10:
Oga in John 1:18 did John say no one has seen the Father(person) or thay no one has seen God(identity) according to your explanation?

Are you saying that there is A Godship(identity)of the father that is seperate from the Godship(identity) of the son?

So is John 1:1 talking of two Godship(identity)?

A separate godship would imply that there are two or more distinct divine natures or gods that are not unified in essence or being. In other words, each "godship" would refer to a separate, independent, and fully autonomous divine entity. This concept would conflict with the idea of monotheism, which is the belief in one God.



Separate godships are often associated with polytheism, the belief in multiple gods. In polytheistic religions, gods are distinct beings, each with its own divine nature, authority, and role.

For example, in ancient Greek or Roman mythology, gods like Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades were viewed as separate beings with their own realms and powers.

LordReed:
LoLz. The storybook proves the storybook is true.

What would you consider valid evidence for the Bible’s truth. What is your criteria for truth?

DaddyCoool:
OK, you two, how many times in the Bible was God called "a MAN of war"?

And can you two interprete this passage below.
Son of man and Ancient of days

The phrase "a man of war" referring to God appears once in the Bible, specifically in Exodus 15:3 (KJV), and the context was that of the Israelites' deliverance from Pharaoh's army at the Red Sea.