₦airaland Forum

Thanks again for your interest in my well being, grailife.

I have read those links, thinking I might find some new arguments or maybe some insight. Unfortunately, it was the usual collection of apologetic semi arguments. I won't bother to dismiss them one by one. I have neither the time, nor the energy to do so. If you find an argument that, in your opinion, is absolutely, convincingly evidence of the existence of God, do not hesitate to present it. I will read it with a vivid interest.

My dear grailife. I agree with half of your statement. Evil does indeed exist.

I do want convincing evidence of the existence of a supreme being. Obviously, if you have sufficient functioning neural connections in your neocortex, you will understand that you can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a supreme being on a metaphysical level. However, you can easily disprove the existence of a specific supreme being with assigned or implied properties.

What I don't understand is that you need to frame the debate in your terms before you would enter it. Are you not comfortable stating your case first, or maybe you do not have a case and just want to lure us into saying something contradictory. I hope you will have the fortitude to bring this little debate to a conclusion and are not going to jump bail if the outcome doesn't go your way.

Anyway, I will take the bait and answer your question about the origin of language. My sources will be evolutionary genetics (more specifically the genetical origin of language and the FOXP2 gene), the works of Steven Pinker and Noam Chomsky and of course, my best friend Google Mind you, my choice of taking Pinker and Chomsky as sources does not follow from the link you provided. I have read and own several of the books by Steven Pinker and Chomsky is the grand old man of linguistics with his contributions to the concept of universal grammar.

Language is an evolutionary adaptation that allowed humans to more effectively communicate and maintain knowledge that was crucial for survival. Hominids, as well as other mammal species have been using different forms of communication quite long ago in our evolutionary history. Living in small groups and being relatively weak, our human ancestors needed to be very effective in the communication, both to outsmart the predators and to hunt and gather food themselves.
Some time between 150000 and 50000 years ago. The FOXP2 gene, which, from what evo-devo (evolutionary developmental biology) teaches us, is a regulatory gene that controls the development of some elements crucial to what forms human language today. One of these faculties is the ability for fast articulation. Another adaptation that FOXP2 may have caused (although we are not certain about that yet) is the ability of complex mental projection (which allows things like lying and the ability to find out when someone is lying to you - an evolutionary arms race in a the competitive/cooperative environment of our hunter-gatherer ancestors)
So, even though forms of proto language were already present in our ancestors (and are still available in some of our closest relatives, such as chimpansees), the big leap forward came when the mutations to the FOXP2 gene occurred and gave us mental abilities that were far beyond what our predecessors and our closest relatives had.

Now, my dear grailife, could you enlighten me on how this question is relevant to whether or not God exists?

@ i.k
It's not really about nations. The main drivers in the explotation of poor countries are transnational corporations. They subvert the political process in the west by pushing their agenda. This is done directly by having legislation implemented that is favorable for them and indirectly by monopoliseng public discourse. the most extreme example of this is the US where they even managed to completely marginalise the left wing of politics. What is called liberal in the US would be considered center-right in Europe.
It is as if here is currently no alternative for the cut throat global capitalism

joftech:
One thing i know about God is that He is a good programmer. And His code reuse ability is what all programmers should seek for on a daily basis..

I wouldn't say that. His code is full of pointers, contains so much garbage and he doesn't use comments at all. Calling it spaghetti code would be a very mild description

dejiolowe:
how did she get to marry u? i fear o!

Some people are open minded. I hope the concept doesn't ellude you

dejiolowe:
wife and children?. hope you're not teaching them this things u say here o

My wife's Christian.We don't share exactly the same outlook on life. As for my children, when they reach the maturity and age to think about these subjects, why not?

dejiolowe:
ok i get u (for the first time!)

Cause for celebration

@ mosaic2
Please do bring some evidence of his existence

dejiolowe:
then what r u up to? so if u got bored tomorrow u can commit suicide?

I've got responsibilities for my wife and children and I enjoy living too much
What I mean to say is that there is no inherent purpose to life, the purpose is what you make of it.

Life has no purpose

@ KAG
Our respective posts have crossed. Luckily there's not too much duplication. We tackled the questions from slightly different angles.
Keep it coming. We need more people that can make the light of reason shine in here

Hi davidylan,

Your questions seem to come from someone who is honestly in search of knowledge. I commend your effort

davidylan:
beautiful thread, it's hard to be in science this days and not be carried away by the theory of evolution.
however i am puzzled! Last semester a professor told us the earth was initially a reducing atmosphere (i.e no oxygen and life forms were all anaerobic.
Next we were told mitochondria used to be bacteria originally (they actually look like some bacterial forms), but it is argued that it is only speculative.

It's a little more than speculative. Mitochondrial DNA closely resembles bacterial DNA. If you are really interested in thissubject, look up the work by professor Lynn Margulis

davidylan:
Next we hear eukaryotic cells engulfed mitochondria to produce energy and respire using O2.

In animals, energy is produced through the citric acid cycle or krebs cycle. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle for more info

davidylan:
Next we are told they became predominant by "natural selection" and gradually changed the atmosphere to an oxidising one...

Plants use the energy coming from the sun and through photosynthesis (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthesis) it is transformed in complex carbon based molecules that make up the plant. This energy is mainly stored in the plants in the form of carbohydrates. Animals use that stored energy later on, using the krebs cycle. Mind you this is very much a simplification

davidylan:
Next we here, eukaryotic cells eventually evolved into plants and animals??

I don't know the precise process here. There is no fossil evidence of that evolution prior to the Cambrian explosion for obvious reasons (there is no material to fossilise in one celled organisms). You'd better ask your biology prof for an exact explanation. I'm not a specialist.

davidylan:
Question is: Is man here by the actions of a divine being or are we a result of natural selection?
If so why have we not seen an ape change to a human by natural selection? Why are we yet to observe a half man half ape?
Is it possible nature designed the wonders and intricacies of the human body?

Humans did not evolve from living apes. Apes and humans have a common ancestor. Both evolved in different directions from that point onward.
The best possible on line explanation evidence for evolution can be found here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/
Evidence for human evolution can be found here: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/

davidylan:
Who designed the solar system as we know it? The big bang?
If we know that most molecules tend toward a state of entropy, how come nature was able to design such an ordered system we call the earth?

Entropy must increase in a closed system. Earth is not a closed system, as it has a constant input of energy coming from the sun.

davidylan:
How did the dinosaurs come about? Why did they die out? Natural selection? Evolution?

I would suggest you read a general introduction in evolution. this http://evolution.berkeley.edu/ might help you

davidylan:
Why are we yet to see the "evolution" of new "strains" of humans that are resistant to the diseases such as cancer and HIV AIDS?

Cancer has a different mechanism, as it is an internal genetic malfunction. It is not comparable to infectious diseases. Evolution does not have an impact on it, as there is little selective pressure coming from cancer (usually manifests itself after reproductive age)
As for HIV, this disease is still too young to have a significant effect on human evolution, although some people in Africa have started developing resistance against AIDS. A better example would be sickle cell anemia, which is actually a protection against malaria that evolved in Africa after the introduction of agriculture (and thus the appearance of the specific mosquito that causes malaria in the human environment). Another example of evolution at work is the development of lactose tolerance in human populations that consume significant amounts of milk and milk products.

davidylan:
Why has it been so hard to make clones of human embryos unlike those of animals?

It isn't harder than for other animals, we just don't do it for ethical reasons.

davidylan:
Is there really no evidence of the existence of God or are we just trying in vain to exclude Him from our lives?

There is no evidence for the existence of God. Belief in God rests on faith, a belief without evidence based on authority

davidylan:
If belief in God is irrational and not based on evidence, on what evidence do we then place our belief in evolution?

It is irrational, as it rests on faith. Rationality does not accept faith as method, only evidence, logic and inductive and deductive reasoning from the evidence (material observations).
Belief in evolution is based on the evidence and only on the evidence. The evidence in favor of evolution is overwhelming

davidylan:
For instance, how do we talk of evolution when there is no physical evidence?

There is a lot of physical evidence, please read the links I gave you above

I hope you'll find what you're looking for and feel free to ask further questions.

@ prettyH
Sorry, wrong smiley, should have been

whocares:

Thank God we have you to set them straight

See, we can all live together in peace and harmony

whocares:
Mr Sabi sabi, by definition 'Faith' is Irrational

I only used it for effect. Some people here claim that faith is rational

prettyH:
Lol, Nferyn how mean can u be

Apart from his frightening appearance, Micheal's songs are still wonderful to listen to any day any time.

I still list Thriller as one of the best CD's in my collection, regardless of Michael's appearence.
And, I wasn't mean, I was just stating an objective fact, although I used provocative language for effect