₦airaland Forum

I was just thinking along which lines gras-roots political organisations could be formed?
All attempt by benevolent dictators (or even true democratically inclined rulers) seem to fail in most African countries. You cannot have a functional political system with true representation and voicing of the interests of the population if the population is not organised in one way or another. Politics needs to be a theatre where the different intrests of the different strata of the population are mediated and resolved. Without a genuine form of involvement, democracy is empty of substance.

Does anyone have ideas as to how to accomplish this? Even if it would be a long term project.

All monotheistic religions lead to violent subjugations of others at one time or another in their history. Maybe the problem lies with the core caracteristics of religions as vessels of truth

Those religions are all equal in exposing the others as false and therefore something to fight, either by violent means or other means.

And the Bible as such is in no way expressing the political context of that time?

Rather look at the meaning of the words - in context - than just at the literal transcription (which is a translation of texts in an ancient language, that is in itself an after the fact codification of an oral tradition)

ono:
The[b] only [/b] reason I'll blame the Brits for our current woes is in their Amalgamation of the Northern & Southern Protectorates. This was the genesis of the problem.

This is one of the things I did understand

ono:
Most of our monarchies and traditional institutions are either[b] toothless bulldogs or are aiding and abetting crime at the top echelon.[/b] So that either way, our people do not really have a say in their own governance. We just adopt this 'siddon look' attitude to anything that happens. The best most folks do here is to pray to God for help.

What I'm wondering is if these traditional institutions, even though they don't have formal power, are legitimate in the eyes of the constituents? This could be a basis for a ground-roots political organisation

otitoloju:
@nferyn Gowon introduced the unitary system at the height of the crisis which followed the overthrow of Ironsi.

Was it a [b]functional [/b]federalism prior to the military takeover?

ono:
@nferyn, theirs will be worst

Why?

Bigtee:
Wassup.
Nice topic i must confess.
Female president?, well it worked in Liberia. But it can NEVER!!!! work here in Nigeria.
Even a MAN/MALE president goes through HELL!! ruling this country.

A female can't handle NAija. This country is too complicated for the weaker sex.

Be good.

PS: Hope u are not nursing such ambitions.

So you are actually saying that women are intellectually less capable?

ono:
Good question.

Answer: They will abuse it.

And men don't?

owo:
That's correct. Infact many of the political/economic debates on this forum arise from this fact.
Unfortunately, the current unitary system of governance, created by the military, is one of the major causes of Nigeria's 'mis-development'.

Is it really created by the military? Isn't it one of the poisonous legacies the Brits left you with?

owo:
Certainly, local level of governance and mangement of men, materials and resources would translate to net growth. However, those that are currently controlling the central government and those benefitting from it do not want this.They are afraid that they might not be able to survive on their own.

If one or another region can lead the way in self-development, this could change a lot. Probably the best thing to do is not depend on the proceeds from the oil-wealth at all. This wouldn't directly hinder central government anyway.

owo:
This fear is the basis for the current problem in the Niger Delta region and the agitations that have followed. Socialism exists when those in positions of authority as much as appreciate what it is in addition to believing in it. Many of the groups that were coalesced to form Nigeria were under monarchs in pre-independence times.

Formal or informal constitutional monarchies are not that bad. I know the Oba of Benin commands much more respect from his people than the governor of Edo state and as such would have far more legitimacy. A system that is an adaptation of the pre-colonialism systems of governance would be more fitting. Does this also apply to other regions in Nigeria?

owo:
Therefore rulers are glorified and wealth is might. Therefore, socialism with its attendant wealth distribution philosophy is a hard sell when the rulers have not yet had their fill and have not finished oppressing all their enemies

Left wing political formations always base their power on popular support and organisation. Elite groups are not really necessary, educated organisers are.

owo:
There is little of this. The presence of strong ethnic and religious cleavages totally weakens the concept of forming an alliance with another person or group on the basis infrastructure. For as soon as a person from one group mounts the saddle of leadership, his kinsmen begin ensure that they silence every opposition whether the leader's actions are right or not.
This system is what has killed the trade unions, in addition to their being decimated, chiefly, by the current government due to its opposition to hikes in petroleum product prices.

trade unions should rather depend on organisation, education and self reliance in an earlier stage. Without a broad base, their efforts would not lead very far anyway.

owo:
There have been lots of analysis on this and other problems. The truth is that, apart from a spell (unplanned) of two and a half months, Nigeria has not had a broadminded soul or even a graduate as its leader.
It has therefore been led for 98% of its post independence life by small minded men.

A defeatist attitude has never really helped any social movement. What levers of power do those in power hold and how can these be counteracted by an opposition force? Direct confrontation almost always leads to a defeat of those not having the raw power. It's not as if these so-called leaders have broad societal support

owo:
Will it overcome this trend of dependence in the near future? Certainly not... if current and past trends are anything to go by.

Then it has to be done in small steps, not?

PS: I'm thinking out aloud here, if there's somewhere I completely miss the point, let me know

ono:
I don't think we need women now, maybe later, but definitely not now. They can be used by men to achieve some good feats, like Akunyili, not Okonjo-Iweala o, I don't trust that woman. But they should not rule us now. Later, please.

What possible reason can you have to exclude women from power now?

dejiolowe:
but america's never had a female president?

And America is [b]not [/b]leading in the human development indicators.

There is a strong correlation between the level of women representation and women's rights and the human development index. Of course you are confronted with the chicken-or-the egg problem, but there are strong indications that investments in women are far more beneficial from an overall development point of view than in men.

This map was actually set to me by an american after the re-election of King George. There is hope, after all

Anything you like to know... just ask
I'll be glad to explain it

There was a cousin of my wife that stayed with us in Belgium for a few months. He didn't know enything about cycling, but now he's hooked. If you're looking for a sport that truly challenges your athletic abilities, cycling is it!

owo:
Ideologies reign and are adhered to when food, clothing and shelter have been sorted out.
Since the 1940's when Zikism caught the minds of the young men in Lagos, ideologies have been hard to sell.

Shouldn't be the case. With the levels of poverty, a socialist party should find some traction among the masses. Without a sizable middle class, I don't see a place for a classical liberal part though.
Wouldn't it be better to leave governance to local levels of traditional representation? Isn't there more chance of having a true system of checks and balances than with a highly centralised state?

owo:
The Nigerian society is at the most basic of levels. In addition to the corruption that pervades the fabric of soceity, ethnic alliances, cleavages and bonds give access to rights that are supposed to be guaranteed for all. When electricity supply, urban water supply, waste management , educational stability are still not guaranteed.

This should give rise to a left wing political party/alliance. Is there anything of this sort? What about trade unions?

owo:
In a bid to ensure their survival, a good number of the educated minds find their way to other countries ( a minimum of 5m which is roughly equal to the population of Israel). This alone contributes a great deal to the perpetuation of old and useless ways of thinking hence inhibiting the process of nurturing an ideology.

This is what I noticed as well. We've always sent money to be used as investment money, but the pressure to feed the extended family and pay their school fees is higher than putting the money to productive use. Very frustrating for a rational mind like mine.
It also seems like the extended family is expecting those abroad to feed them and wait for the money instead of trying to make the best of what they get. A typical example was when we sent some money to paint my wife's house in Benin City. Even though the person that we wanted to take care of this was unemployed, he rather looked for hiring in external help for the paint job instead of doing it himself. I was furious. We both work full time jobs and we still paint our house ourselves here in Belgium.

owo:
In summary, because Nigerians are basically divided along ethno-religious lines, political ideologies do not survive and there is no middle class (now or in the making) to sustain any ideology that is propounded.

It seems to be a self-perpetuating cycle of dependence. Do you have a more insightful structural analysis for this?

mikebuddy:
Why do people like "nferyn " enjoy long posts?

Keeps the brain active. You can address me directly, you know. I don't bite

And what about the influx of money from emmigrants. My wife (and myself by extension) are sending a considerable amount of money to Nigeria? Doesn't that create a middle class? There are a lot of Nigerians abroad.

And how long is the population going to accept this state of affairs?
There is a middle class that want some stability and security, so that their livelyhood and that of their children is sufficiently ensured. Why don't they organise?

So scientific findings are not the real world, contrary to the delusions that come up in people's minds. Way to go

timmy:
because ulld never end, your claims and i don't see it going anywhere

Maybe that's because the arguments people try to forward against mine are just too weak

timmy:
please let no man challenge nferyn, i don't think its worth it

Why are you saying that?

Can anyone enlighten me on whether or not ideological divisions (left/right, conservative/liberal) play any significant role in Nigerian politics?
From all the discussions I've been following this does not seem to be an issue at all.

I know it's probably something akin to looking for a living white dinosaur, but I'd like to know if there are any cycling fans on the board

The world as seen by Americans

I already made up a specific medical will (I'm 32) that states that if I ever end up in a situation where there's no prospect of recovery or if I suffer horrible pains, they should commit euthanasia on me. I see no point in suffering for suffering's sake.

donnie:
Yeah...
There's something behind it. It's called "The Annointing". This is the Supernatural Power of God that comes upon a man and enables him to perform supernatural acts. It is the power of the Holy Spirit.

Well, there's one million US dollars waiting for you that you can spend on good works. Why not take up the challenge?

snazzydawn:
*rolls eyes* @ nferyn and deji well,this is one eskimo you ain't selling lies ice to!!!

Always worth a try. I was serious though about about a contribution scheme. I am willing to offer a small monthly contribution to avoid the downtime we had over the weekend.

snazzydawn:
@ nferyn---missed you very much though!!! what did you do while NL was off?

I was practicing witty remarks and went out for shopping with the family... hell is a place where women go out shopping and drag their husbands along

snazzydawn:
sorry to disappoint you but you cannot sell ice to an eskimo!!!

yes, you can, you only need to make him believe that you're selling him pristine fresh water packaged for easy transport