₦airaland Forum

Can't Nigerians f*cking read? Y'all are the worst set of humans on earth. How do people comment on something without even reading the content? Una no dey shame to display una nonsense for public. Which kaim 17th century people are we saddled with in Nigeria? O ga O. E don be for Naija.

Ok. Let's talk frankly as truly concerned Nigerians.

I don't live in Nigeria so didn't vote but I supported Buhari (was just tired of PDP at the time) and supported Tinubu cos though I'm a Christian, his Muslim-Muslim to let move convinced me he was the right man for the job. I have always thought Nigeria needs strong leaders especially those with balls of steel to make the difficult calls we frankly need to get out of the mess we are in as a corrupt country. So, Buhari was supposed to be the anti-corruption white knight - failed. Tinubu was supposed to come with the capacity to make tough decisions for the country and not be swayed by emotions. So far, he is doing just that.

But...

In recent months, and again just this afternoon, every time I listen to him, I get the sense he is no longer physically (and somewhat mentally) fit. Again, I've been mostly a supporter of his, primarily because of the tough calls which I think are good for the economy in the long run. However, is he really in the right state of health to continue as President?

I'm raising this question out of genuine apolitical concern. For me, it is Nigeria first and foremost. Anything to fix this country, I'm all in. And I'm not one to be behoven to sentimens, so keep your emotions in check.

Without cursing, abusing, gaslighting each other, let's talk about this.

In the interest of Nigeria, is Tinubu healthy enough to continue as President. Should he pick/support a younger, healthier but equally bold and radical person like him to take over? I'm almost in the YES, he should camp right now.

Are you serious?

Kukutente23:
There is a big deal because the security and welfare of Nigerians shall be the primary purpose of government not primary purpose of the state govt
The state govt can likewise also say the LGs should take care of their security issues and the LGs in turn push it to the wards and the wards too push it to CDAs
It is absurd to think states should or be asked to take over the responsibility of protecting their citizens. That is a core responsibility of whoever calls himself commander-in-chief
States should be asked to contribute not "take over"

With Iranian president and ayotolla dead now, has this come to pass already?

This topic surfaced briefly but didn’t get the attention it deserved. I’d like to bring it back to the forefront.

Using Lagos State as a reference:
Budget in 2000: ₦40B
NGN/USD exchange rate: ₦105/$
Budget in USD: ~$380M

Budget in 2026: ₦4.237T
NGN/USD exchange rate: ₦1,450/$
Budget in USD: ~$2.93B

In USD terms (excluding US CPI inflation), Lagos State’s budget has structurally grown by nearly 8× from 2000 to 2026.

Now let’s look at Enugu State:
Budget in 2000: ₦13B
NGN/USD exchange rate: ₦105/$
Budget in USD: ~$125M

Budget in 2026: ₦1.62T
NGN/USD exchange rate: ₦1,450/$
Budget in USD: ~$1.12B

Again, in USD terms (excluding US CPI inflation), Enugu State’s budget has grown by roughly 9× between 2000 and 2026.

A significant portion of this growth has occurred from 2023 to now, driven largely by:

1. FX unification and a more market-reflective exchange rate
2. Increased allocations to states following fuel subsidy removal
3. An expanded federal revenue base, with higher downstream transfers to states

Questions for Nigerians (You and I)

1) Governors now control materially more resources on a structural basis. Where is the corresponding accountability? It is time to more aggressively demand results at the state level.

2) There has clearly been a rotation of resources, away from federal subsidies (fuel, electricity, FX defense) toward direct fiscal capacity at the federal and state levels.
a) Do we want these resources returned to citizens via subsidies?
b) Or routed through states and governors, ultimately returning to citizens through infrastructure, services, and long-term development?

Either path has implications, but pretending nothing has changed is no longer intellectually honest. Until we answer these questions and enforce real accountability at the state level, the sheer growth in budgets will not automatically translate into better living conditions.

Let’s discuss

Lifestone:
My point was that the Naira was already devalued. You have dual exchange rates. Who does that.
I think we should do the re-basing so that businesses not captured before are brought in.
But PBAT did the right thing. Let us know our level. This may help us buy Nigeria products more

This is a very difficult topic to understand for most people. Good luck explaining it

ivandragon:
Some of you are masquerading your slavish support for incompetence as objectivity.

Read the subject matter of the thread. It clearly compared 2014 to 2024, so what is out of place with my own use of 2014 for analysis?

Minimum wage in 1984 was under N200... and I had previously done an analysis showing that the purchasing power of Nigerians steadily improved from 2001 - 2014 and was better than the mid-80s to 1999. And the reverse has been the case since 2016.

No country let's market forces fully determine prices for essential goods and services, not even the US or China. There are always measures put in place to reduce the negative impacts of free market, something you and bat seem not to understand how to manage.

I agree fully with your fourth statement which is the only sense you made.

Lol @ slavish support for incompetence.

Your argument was that of deterioration in purchasing power. Go ahead and show 1984 through 2014 - let's see.

There were very bold moves that drove the economic expansions we saw with Obsanjo administration. The big ones being the telecoms revolution, banking revolution and large scale privatization. Those have pushed us as far as they can. And now what?

Sentiments aside (if you can), now what? Minimum wage is a contraption of the government. Tinubu could have raised it to N150k, still afford to pay that and immediately negate everything you posted up there.

Back to the Now what?
(1) float the naira - period. Not enough resources to continue to prop it plus stability is better.
(2) take out subsidies. Short term pains, long term gains
(3) fix power. Allowing states generate, distribute and regulate is a step in the right direction.
(4) fix insecurity - which may only be possible via the extremely tough decision of restructuring and devolving power to the regions

I'm not a Tinubu apologist. My preferred candidate didn't even make it past the primaries. But I will give it to Tinubu- he's been making these very tough calls that require grit. I'm only hoping he takes it a notch higher. But then, there are the primal concerns like the bs you posted up here about cost of eggs, etc. Distracts from what really needs to be done to fix the country. When the country finally starts to work, N6k eggs wouldn't matter much, cos people can work, generate N2m per month of economic value, get paid N1m and afford the darn eggs.

ivandragon:
Lol...

Op... before you roll out the drums in praise for bat, you need to understand a couple of basics...

1. GDPs, real or nominal, are always benchmarked against the dollar which is like the SI unit for currency evaluation.

2. The purchasing power, benchmarked against specific periods, is the real determinant of if the economic condition of the general populace of a country is improving or not...

Now, for the first basic, I believe the OP has been properly schooled. It is clearly evident that the GDP has drastically reduced in REAL terms when properly benchmarked against the dollar.

On the second basic, the question is, what is the purchasing power today, compared to say 2014, just before the APC took over?

As much as apc apologist hate to 'hear' it, prices of goods and services remains a measure of determining the increase or decrease in purchasing power.

For instance, in 2014, N18,000 would get:

2 bags of rice with change @ N8000 per bag

Or 90kg of cooking gas @ N200 per kg

Or 12 bags of cement @ N1500 per bag

Or 72 tubers of yam @ N250 per tuber

Or 30 crates of eggs @ N600 per crate

Or 3 bags (50kg) of NPK @ N6000 per bag...

Today, N70,000 gets you

0.7 bag of rice @ N90,000 per bag

Or 46.6kg of cooking gas @ N1500 per kg

Or 7.7 bags of cement @ N9000 per bag

Or 23.3 tubers of yam @ N3000 per tuber

Or 11 crates of eggs @ N6000 per crate

Or 1.5 bags (50kg) of NPK @ N45000 per bag...

So OP... can you honestly say the economy is improving for the benefit of the masses?

Why not take this back to 1994? When you could buy a used car with under N10k? Or 1984 when the annual minimum wage salary was under N6k?

First, N18k in 2014 is not N18k today. Needs to be adjusted for inflation.

Secondly, let market forces help nigeria truly find what works. All this artificial support left and right has done more damage. For instance, is the true value of a crate of eggs N6k? I don't know but let the market determine that.

We need constant (not necessarily cheap but constant) power supply. Then give me security (in the south east and north). Then maybe devolve more power to the states (or regions as most states today are not viable) and watch regional competition, true market forces drive true growth.

All these orishi orishi sentimental stuff won't cut it for nigeria

jmoore:
1 dollar = 185 naira in 2014.

1 dollar = 1,600 naira in 2024.



Compare GDP in USD


- Nominal GDP (USD):
- 2014: 481.3 billion USD
- 2024: 168.3 billion USD
→ Decrease of ~65% in dollar terms due to naira depreciation.

- Real GDP (USD):
- 2014: 363.0 billion USD
- 2024: 49.6 billion USD
→ Decrease of ~86% in dollar terms.

Compare Real GDP in Naira (Inflation-Adjusted)
Since real GDP accounts for inflation, let's compare the naira value of real GDP:
- 2014:67.15 trillion NGN
- 2024:79.29 trillion NGN
→ Growth of ~18% over 10 years (~1.7% annual growth)

Did GDP Improve?
In USD terms:No, both nominal and real GDP declined sharply due to the naira's depreciation.

In Naira terms (real GDP):Yes, but only slightly (~18% over 10 years, indicating weak economic growth).

The naira's depreciation (from 185 to 1,600 per USD) wiped out GDP gains in dollar terms, reducing Nigeria's economic size internationally.


Nigeria's economy grew slightly in real terms (in naira), but the severe currency depreciation made the country much poorer in dollar terms. Thus, overall GDP did not improve meaningfully when considering purchasing power and international comparisons.


It's not about copying and pasting for propaganda. Can you interpret what you are copying?

This is absolute BS.

Stay with naira - in real terms, 67T in 2014 to 79T in 2024 is ~2% annual CAGR growth rate.

Conversion to USD introduces forex - and you decide - do you prop the naira with borrowed funds (which was, is and will always remain a bad idea) and achieve a "higher GDP"? Or do you, as an economic move float it and let it find its true equilibrium value?.

In the long run, floating the exchange rate will prove to be the absolute right move. If the true value is N1500, so be it. No need to sugarcoat it or prop it down to N500. What Naira needs is stability so investors can plan. Too much volatility is just risk investors are not willing to deal with (or will make you pay a high price for)

Let's wait until after the rebasing of the GDP base year.

2014 rebasing (setting benchmark year from 1990 to 2010) alone caused GDP to rise from N42T ($270B) to N80T ($510B) based on prevailing forex rates. This rebasing allowed rapidly grown/growing sectors Nollywood (entertainment), telecommunications (mobile phones) and local trading to be introduced in the GDP calculation hence the big immediate jump.

There are plans to rebase again in 2015 (benchmark = 2019) to recognize shifting trends towards e-commerce, gig economy, digital/social economy (FB, IG, tik tok) and other economic activities not included in the 2014 methodology.

Rebasing does not mean you have suddenly grown the economy. It simply recognizes that there may be newer economic activities that have not been captured in the existing GDP calculation.

And then, there is the element of the forex rate. GDPs are first measured in the local currency. Depending on prevailing forex rates (until the recent exchange rate liberalization, naira was basically propped by the CBN), $GDP values may swing. It is important to consider the value of deliberate devaluation of our local currency in this instance.

I say all these to emphasize that Nigerians need to move away from the simplistic table of numbers and question if and how we are seeing actual measurable growth in economic activities.

What is the exchange rate used to estimate the GDPs? Tinubu purposely devalued the naira (expecting some economic benefits) while the other GDPs were estimated based on propped up value of the naira. This is meaningless as is represented here.

Too many mumu people for Nigeria. Ultra-daft.

What will it take to figure that this is fake and the article is NOT from THISDAY.

Una go just spend time venting - 1/2/ of that energy that could be saved (or used for something more productive) if you'd just take time to use your f**king brains.

Fubara dragged these guys for way too long. Wasted 2 years and it took the Supreme Court to restore them.
Yes, there should be peace but Sim playing Nollywoood with video cameras and the press won't cut it. You frustrated these guys for 2 long years, running the assembly with 3-4 members only. If he truly wanted peace, in good faith, it should have been done long before now. Frankly, current peace moves by Fubara does not appear to me to be in good faith.

Anyways, hope he knows what he is doing. If he is impeached, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. This is Nigeria and we have seen similar shows before

This is my extended interpretation of the Supreme Court ruling:

1. The Supreme Court declared that only the State House of Assembly (HOA) has the authority to declare a seat vacant. Neither the court nor the governor has the power to do so. This means that the HOA, under the leadership of the Speaker, is solely responsible for adjudicating and determining the validity of a defection before pronouncing a seat vacant.

2. In this case, Amaewhule and his group presented their own defection to the HOA, in which they themselves are members and hold the Speaker’s position. As a result, they alone have the authority to decide whether their defection is valid and whether their seats should be declared vacant.

The key takeaway: The argument over defection and vacant seats is effectively dead.

I ask this because, just 2 weeks ago, a medical doctor was slapped 5 times by a newly elected local government councilor in Imo State. Very similar situation - the councilor insisting he is a very important member of the society.

Doctor didn't hit back, kept his cool and is now filling charges against councilor-elect.

The impunity must be checked. Nigerians need need to know and understand their rights, and the available instruments in the justice system to push for these rights.

We have all seen the disturbing incident reported where a member of the House of Representatives slapped and assaulted a Bolt driver who was delivering goods to his house.

I would like to ask the legal community:

1. What are the legal implications of this assault under Nigerian law? Both criminal and civil?

2. What immediate steps should the Bolt driver take to report the incident, take legal actions and protect his rights?

3. Does the HOR’s position offer any form of immunity or protection in such cases, and how can this be addressed legally?

Your insights and advice will be greatly appreciated as this can educate other Nigerians to know their rights, understand this element of the law, and seek appropriate justice.

Thanks.

Focus on praying for the Nigeria that Trump called a shit-hole. Can't even elect sensible leaders in Nigeria or 'pray' for sensible leadership - yet, you want to carry US matter for head.

Tjra:
My prayer this blessed Sunday is that God should not let Kamala Harris win the election.

Just like in the time of Obama, LGBTQ agenda will be one of her priorities especially for Africa.

The implication for Nigeria is that either Peter Obi or Atiku will be in Aso-Rock.

Bobrisky, James Brown, Charley Boy and other she-males will have national portfolios.

Our dwindling cultural values will be finally dead and buried.

Scenario: there are 15 boys and 1 girl in a group. You are required to bring a subset of these to a game to form a team

Case 1.
Bring atleast two-thirds of the boys and the girl.

Case 2.
Bring atleast two-thirds of the boys, and the girl.


What are the valid makeups of the team from C1 and C2 above.

IT’s proper to begin this little piece with a note of empathy and some apologies. I sincerely empathise with our dear friend and sister, Chimamanda. One of the most challenging experiences one could ever go through is losing a loved one. Losing both parents in a very short period of time is even more challenging.

I perfectly understand what has now morphed into a ‘campaign’ in the context of her trying to cope with those terrible losses. It is healthy for Chimamanda to speak out. It is also healthy for the Church, for it will hopefully bring about some much-needed changes.

In the Igbo culture, the bereaved could hardly go wrong; he/she is mostly tolerated, and usually apologised to. On this note, Chimamanda deserves some unreserved apologies for what may have transpired during the funeral she publicly spoke about in an interview. It is rather unfortunate that such a scenario, whatever may have been the cause, was allowed to play out at a funeral in the first place. Now, I’m not so interested in the details of what transpired between the Adichie’s and the priest (whom I have never met before) as to place a few things in their right contexts.

I do this from my general knowledge of how the Church works (vis-a-vis funerals) – being an insider. This would help balance the narrative a little bit and avoid sliding into the kind of ‘single story’ that Chimamanda Adichie has famously warned against. After all, she now has the voice and the platform which the little-known priest does not have.


As we all know, the Catholic church is found in nearly all nooks and crannies of Nigeria and most countries. Among other things, her successes with primary evangelisation owe largely to the extant vow of celibacy, a mysterious, self-denying but quite liberating way of life, that commits her clergy entirely to the work of evangelisation with relatively little distractions from family and friends.

Despite any human shortcomings, these men have sacrificed a lot for humanity! They sow the seed of faith in places others would rather not go; they build schools and vocational centres to teach the people how to read, write and work. They are some of the greatest and most generous agents of civilisation if you think about it.

In difficult missions like the North of Nigeria, they use bicycles, and board okada to carry out their duties; they say Mass under trees and leaky roofs.

In this time and age when religion has become business and so-called ‘men of God’ would rather remain in ‘viable’ cities to enjoy huge tithes, fat ‘brown envelops’ and hobnob with politicians, Catholic priests stick with the poor in villages and the countryside.

How do they survive under such circumstances? Well, the picture of a typical village parish is not as pitiable in the South as it is in the North; yet it is still bad enough down South.

In Igboland, for instance, village parishes survive on the dedication and tenacity of poor parishioners, who, seeing the sacrifices of their priest, willingly feed and clothe him – in an act of solidarity hardly replicated anywhere. Let it be known that much of the responsibilities of running a parish are borne by these long-suffering villagers. Their illustrious sons and daughters are in the cities contributing massively to churches in Port Harcourt, Lagos, Abuja, Accra, London, Washington, etc.

They come home at Christmas and sometimes make donations, but the bulk of the responsibilities is shouldered by long-suffering villagers.

The other thing that brings them home is the funeral. I guess it might now begin to make sense how structured levies (including funeral dues) and little fees paid here and there has become part of the overall mechanism by which a typical village parish in the East survives.

In the characteristically orderly way of doing things in the Catholic church, records are kept to ensure fairness to those who are consistent. Like every association, there are duties, rights and privileges. Responsible people consult the records once in a while to ensure that they are in good standing. Such people find themselves parting with N800 – N2000 (on average) at reasonable intervals for one church levy or the other.

This way, they do not allow these dues/levies to accumulate, and so make it easier for them to handle, considering their levels of income. As someone rightly observes, the Catholic Church is still the most ‘affordable’ and ‘cost-effective’ church one could be a member of in today’s Nigeria. And I agree. Occasionally, donations are made by willing members, but tithes (i.e., parting with a tenth of one’s income monthly) are hardly emphasised and in most cases non-existent. These facts are easily verifiable.

However, the less responsible members would wait for funerals in order to clear their debts. These debts go up to N30, 000 and in rare cases N40,000 if they have accumulated so much. The defaulters stage all sorts of theatricals, expecting the Church to give them some waiver or preferential treatment.

But would this not be unfair to others? If everyone waited until funerals to fulfil their responsibility, how would the Church survive? These same people could part with over N100k every weekend on ‘good time’ in the cities; some ‘sow seeds’ of half a million or a million in the cities to consult ‘prophets’ and prosperity preachers. When they tell the story, they will so skew it that whoever hears it might think that N30,000 is all funeral levy. It is not; it is mostly miscellaneous outstanding debts.

Without wishing to play things down, I think a good number of reactions and correspondences Chimamanda receives come from persons who belong to this latter group. They would hardly tell the whole story.

It’s heart-warming that Chimamanda has set up a fund to help people pay up such dues/levies, but she should be wary of scammers from this latter group, those who would rather use our sister’s money for cows and unnecessarily lavish funerals than use it to clear up petty Church debts, so as to pave a way for a modest and decent Christian funeral.

Now, the Adichies are way bigger than the amount of money involved here and may have been greatly supportive of the church in their village, as Chimamanda narrates.

Therefore, we may now safely conclude that what transpired during the funeral in question had absolutely nothing to do with money. I suspect it had everything to do with ego, temper, communication and manner of approach, on the part of either the priest or the Adichie’s or both.

Though priests are generally some of the finest gentlemen one could come across, it does not take away the fact that some could be rude, arrogant and lacking in the manner of approach. While most imbibe the best of the long and rigorous seminary training, it is not unexpected that elements of the old self might still pop up from time to time. Thankfully, these are fringe elements in the priesthood and they are in the minority. It also has a lot to do with the specific mysterious dynamics of this thing called grace. The grace of the unction received at ordination does not obliterate human nature but works with it in mysterious ways.

I give an example here: someone who is quick-tempered is also likely to be quick-tempered as a priest. Moses was quick-tempered but was called. The long training is meant to help people manage their moods and tempers, but it does not always succeed. If not successful, the priest is likely to have a hard time dealing with people. He will frustrate a lot of people; they will also frustrate him and make him a sad priest. Perhaps the priest in Adichie’s village belongs to this group. The consequence was what happened at the funeral. If this line of thought is anything to go by, then that priest needs to ask God for help and work more on himself to avert more problems.

It could also be that the Adichie’s were brandishing their influence and ‘connections’ even without realising it – or the priest may have perceived them to be doing so. Many people lack the basic idea of the psychology of priests. They are quite suspicious and a bit intolerant of people parading their egos, and they don’t want to be seen to be favouring any persons or groups. Some have challenged brutal dictators and deadly politicians and feel, like John the Baptist, that they have nothing to lose but their heads. They do not move with bodyguards and escorts. I guess the subtle ego-play and power-play were what degenerated into the ugly situation at the funeral.

A little manner of approach, politeness and better communication from both parties could have resolved any tension. One cannot simply assume that, because one is a ‘pillar’ of the parish and must have donated so much in excess of the total levy arrears, therefore, one is automatically entitled to a waiver or preferential treatment. Of course, this is very possible, but some communication and unspoken understanding – what Brazilians would call jeito – must be involved.

Having said that, it is no secret that some Catholic priests have, in recent years, acquired what I call strange tastes.

Though there is still an overall atmosphere of sanity, some have become almost as materialistic and vain as their counterparts in other churches. I make bold to say that the proliferation of so-called ‘adoration grounds’ is not unconnected with these strange tastes I speak of. For filthy lucre, some have become disobedient and unregenerate, even to their bishops. To these fringe elements (for they are still in the minority), even events as grim as funerals could become another avenue for money-making. In fact, no event could be too solemn, none too ‘heavenly’ to be defiled by money-changers. Chimamanda speaks of using occasions such as funerals to ‘get back at people’ for one thing or the other – and I partly agree with her.

In any case, I hope I have balanced the narrative enough. The blame could actually be spread around. People have been hurt and wounded. They must speak out, and I think the message has sufficiently been passed across. But people should take care that this does not degenerate into a blind thirst for vengeance. It must not become a smear campaign.

Chimamanda might mean well but her utterances might inadvertently be an invitation to anti-clericalism. This would be most unfair to a Church that has done so much for humanity, a Church that has preserved the culture of learning, without which people would not have had a voice in the first place. The average priest is still a gentleman. The average priest is loving and compassionate.

The average priest continues to make a lot of sacrifices for humanity. The average priest trains at least 10 children of the poor in the course of his active service, and these are not always his relatives. This other side of the ‘story’ could be lost in the din of Chimamanda’s campaign. For all its shortcomings, the Catholic church is perhaps the last bastion of sanity in Nigeria today.

We hope that this would make for a more compassionate and sensitive Church. On the one hand, it may turn out to be a learning experience for priests. At the very least, they would be aware that there are Chimamandas out there who have the platform to voice out their grievances. On the other hand, it might equally be a learning experience for the Chimamandas/Adichie’s, for then they may realise that there are still institutions that follow due process and are hardly beholden to rank and power.

Dr Ude, a Research Fellow, Faculty of Philosophy, KU Leuven, Belgium

For a second, let's pretend each neighborhood/area in Lagos is person, and there is a huge party! What is 'each' person doing at the party?

I'll start:

Ajah keeps calling that they're on their way but never makes it beyond VGC due to the heavy traffic

Everyone is scared to talk to Oshodi but he's actually a cool dude when he is sober

Lekki phase 1 excitedly rambles non stop until recoiling in terror when Orile and Ajegunle show up. Pulls Ikeja to the side and screams at them for "inviting these people". Yaba stands next to Lekki 1 pretending to be part of the conversation forgetting nobody recognizes them at the party even though they've been around since Nigeria's independence.

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/12/much-ado-about-payment-of-tithes/

By Donald Mark C. Ude
LET me begin by shocking you: In the entire Gospels, there is not a single place Jesus clearly commands us to pay tithes! I shock you the more: In the only two places Jesus mentions tithes, he is discernibly cynical about it!

Admittedly, he never tells us not to pay tithes, either. However, from the Gospels, it could be deduced that his overall attitude towards tithes is that of cynicism and ambivalence.

I think this point is very important because it brings you (the reader) face-to-face to the fact that this whole ado about tithes is actually about something our Lord treats with so much cynicism and ambivalence.

So, one begins to wonder why the fuss about something Christ himself didn’t consider worthy of attention. If it weren’t for ideological and financial interests, the people emphasising tithes today would have been the same people who would ask their typical question: “Where did Christ say it?”

Now, let’s check out those two places in the Gospels. (As a matter of fact, Jesus uttered the word “tithe” only three times, but one is essentially a synoptic version of the other – so we are basically left with only two). The first: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.

It is these you ought to have practised without neglecting the others” (RSV. Matt 23: 23; cf. Lk 11: 42). The second: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, was praying thus: ‘God I thank you that I am not like other people … I tithe a tenth of all my income.’” (Lk 18: 10-12).

These two passages buttress my argument to the effect that Jesus’ overall disposition towards tithes is that of cynicism and ambivalence. In the first passage, Jesus clearly indicates that the concern about truth, justice, fairness, mercy, love, etc. is “weightier” than, and therefore preferable to, tithe-paying. Tithe-paying is secondary and must take a subsidiary position.

If one must pay tithes, one must not do like Pharisees, but should first and foremost take care to fulfill those “weightier” matters. I live in Europe. The first thing that confronts me each time I step my feet on Nigeria, right from the airport, is unimaginable wickedness, extortion at every turn, bribery, lies, dishonesty, fraud, violence, brigandage, brutality, rascality, filthiest forms of indiscipline, etc.

I think any evil that is not yet practised in Nigeria has not crossed the mind of mortals. Yet this is supposed to be a nation of ‘tithe-payers’! The second passage is placed in the context of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, where the former brags about being a tithe-payer, while the latter humbles himself before God and eventually goes home fulfilled.

I’m aware that we Nigerians have been so ‘terrorised’ and benumbed by religion that we hardly pause to think. But I repeat the question I mooted earlier: Does it not strike you that each time Jesus mentions tithe, it is always associated with hypocrisy and Phariseeism?

Isn’t this already a red flag vis-a-vis tithes/tithing?

Now, what are the “weightier” parts of the law in our Nigerian context (that your priest/pastor/GO has refused to draw your attention to)? No doubt, honesty and self-discipline with regard to money must count. You must reject bribery and corruption in your workplaces.

It is difficult, but it is an act of faith. Nigerians like to talk of ‘challenging’ God; here is a fine opportunity to ‘challenge’ God by rejecting bribes and acting with integrity – to see if He wouldn’t bless your life! You are being told that you “rob” God when you don’t pay your tithes, but you aren’t told that you also rob your fellow humans when you pocket the funds meant for them.

You are not told that you might be the major cause of accidents, malnutrition, infrastructural deficit and avoidable deaths in Nigeria when you steal the money meant to forestall them, using the position you occupy.

You pay your tithes in the cities but allow your poor parents and relatives in the village to suffer – perhaps because you have been told they are witches and wizards waiting to kill your destiny. Integrity, solidarity, solicitude, self-control, faith and charity are the “weightier” part of the law that Jesus refers to.

If you neglect them, even though you pay N1billion as tithe, you are a hypocrite and a Pharisee by Jesus’ standards!

How about the bogus relationship being established between tithing and being blessed/favoured? Now let me make this clear: One of the most blasphemous lies being peddled in the name of God in recent times is that God needs your tithes in order to bless you.

It is blasphemy because it is an insult on the holy and unfathomably righteous God. I do think that the dynamics of God’s blessings are too complex and mysterious to be reduced to monetary handouts or ‘bribery’ given to His supposed ‘representative.’

It is even more scandalous and laughable to see pastors threaten people with hellfire should they not pay their tithes. Many were appalled and disappointed upon seeing a video-clip, where a general overseer threatened – and I quote – that members would “miss heaven” if they did not pay their tithes.

Another implication of our Lord’s cynical disposition towards tithes is that it should occupy little (if any) space in the preaching and sermons of all true ministers of the Word. I might even recommend that the attention given to it should not exceed a total of five minutes in an entire calendar year.

The reason is that, if tithes were an essential element of the message of salvation our Lord Jesus came to preach, He would have surely included it in the Beatitudes or even dedicated an entire discourse to it.

For instance, Jesus took time to teach us how to pray, how to fast and so on and so forth. But this isn’t the case with tithes; it simply didn’t worth His attention. As it were, He may have seen it as a distraction, perhaps one of those annoying traditions that could have stymied the New Message He came to proclaim.

ALSO READ: Tithe: 3 things we must consider
At this point, let us address one of the most notorious passages being cited in support of tithes – the “robbing God” mantra. Malachi 3:8-12 suggests that abdicating from tithes might be tantamount to “robbing” God. How do we interpret this? The passage specifically states: “Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in my house” (v. 10).

As I see it, this points more to material food and less to monetary donations to seemingly insatiable and bottomless church coffers. It refers to a practice of bringing a tenth of one’s harvest to the priest/Levite who then went ahead to share it to the poor among the people of God to ensure that no one starved.

In other words, the focus was basically on the poor, and “robbing” God in this respect is squarely robbing the poor.

Therefore, the ugly scenario in Nigerian churches where so-called ‘top’ tithe-payers owe their workers but are quick to impress the pastor/priest with their tithes is actually tantamount to “robbing” God. This is the true interpretation of that passage! The average Nigerian priest/pastor/GO isn’t worried about this and is even scared to say it the way I do because they fear it might come with dire financial implications.

Meanwhile, they are the same that would be quick to ask “Is it in the Bible?” if monetary tithing weren’t in their favour. Once again, I make bold to say that the form of tithing that is OT-supported is tithing in kind and not by cash.

Well, I do not think this is a big issue because a few things have to change with time, otherwise Christianity becomes mere casuistry. I only brought it up to expose the hypocrisy of those who are quick to ask “is it in the Bible?” when it serves their interest.

The mention of priests/Levites calls to mind what I consider an important dimension of the debate on tithes – namely, the question of who a priest really is in ourpresent context.

The Bible recounts that Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek, the priest-king of Salem (Gen 14:18-20; Heb. 7: 1-2). That passage is a bit shrouded in mystery, given that it is merely mentioned in passing.

Since there is hardly any further clue, its interpretation becomes a lot more complicated. Yet I suspect it must have been the practice in ancient Mesopotamia that a tenth of one’s harvest, including war booties (in Abraham’s case), was given to such an exalted priest-king figure.

This practice was then appropriated by Judaism when it became systematised as a religion, probably facilitated by the institutionalisation of the Levitical priesthood.

Now, let’s return to the question: who is a priest (who should receive tithes) in our contemporary context? Does it include the young pastor who was fired – and so ‘de-ordained’ – by his bishop some months ago because he wasn’t ‘doing well’ (‘doing well’ in this case being nothing but making much more money for his church)?

If this is so, then priesthood would be no less than a precarious and temporary position where the priest/pastor could be ‘un-priested’ according to the whims and caprices of his bishop.

Does it include the young man who, having failed in all previous endeavors,worst of all in academics, decided to convert a warehouse near Onitsha Main Market to a church to hoodwink unsuspecting traders?

Does it include the young man from a neighboring village to mine who, for no fault of his (i.e., given the general unemployment in the country), began to feel ‘called’; and so, submitted himself after some weeks of training to be ordained by a self-acclaimed bishop who pays himN30k per month to lead a branch of his church?

Should we focus onthe priest/pastor/venerable of more traditional churches that have existed for a couple of centuries? Or should we limit the term ‘priest’ to the Church that has had an unbroken chain of succession from the Seat of St. Peter, spanning over 2 millennia, and possessing a self-understanding of the priesthood the considers it an indelible character, quite immune to the vicissitudes of life?

Dear reader, your guess is as good as mine. But irrespective of what you consider priesthood and who you consider your priest, the point is that tithe is epiphenomenal (i.e. of little importance) to Christianity. Indeed, for Christ, the “weightier” part of the law is summed up in the four-letter word, LOVE.

What is more, the key significance of the Melchizedek imagery for our purposes, as invoked in the Letter to the Hebrews, is that Christ is our eternal High Priest, who has offered the one single efficacious Sacrifice for our sins. The import is that you don’t need to pay tithes to be blessed by God.

The one single Sacrifice – Christ – is enough blessing for you. I’m aware Nigerians are crazy about ‘favors’; then know it today that Christ and Christ alone is your Favor! And, certainly, you will not “miss heaven” if you don’t pay your tithes, quite contrary to the GO’s threat I referred to above.

I wish to remain true to my promise not to interfere with your decision and to even suggest ways in which one could be supportive to the church outside the ‘tithe’ framework. In a place like Germany, where I spend most of my Summers, there is an organized system whereby willing members part with some portion of their monthly incomes for the support of the Church.

The priest/pastor does not even know how it is administered; all he knows is that he receives his salaries promptly, the church is well-maintained, the secretary, cook (if he has any) and other functionaries are paid.Well, our people may not be as disciplined and advanced as Germans –and, if you think about it, it’s all a symptom of a culture whereby the priest/pastor wants to control everything.

Yet something could still be done.

For instance, Nigerians are some of the most generous people I have seen on the planet when it comes to giving to the church. Therefore, occasional but prudent fundraising, offering and free-will donations could be organized to address specific needs.

As has been established earlier, the poor is the ‘God’ that is being directly robbed in matters of tithes. Hence, beyond being used for the normal functioning of the Church, such fundraising, offering, and donations should also benefit the poor. Nigeria is not in short supply of the poor. If the singer,Davido, could put up a well-organized nation-wide outreach to the poor, the Church could do even better.

We can begin with our immediate neighborhoods, the hospitals and orphanages nearby.The New testament is replete with examples where Christians made collections for the poor.There are examples where richer churches contributed to poorer ones. We find a good example in Rom. 15: 28 (also see 2 Cor. 9: 6-10).

In fact, if one reads the Letter to the Romans properly, it becomes clear that the letter was primarily occasioned by such instances of richer churches contributing to help poorer ones (see Rom. 15:28).

The early Church demonstrated so much solidarity that there “was not a needy person among them” (Acts 4:34). This is the true meaning of tithe! We should therefore put an end to the culture wherein tithes are collected from poor members to erect universities and institutions that are not accessible to the children of the same poor tithe-payers.

“But the hour is coming,” says Jesus, “when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth” (John 4.23). If you want to really serve God in “spirit and truth,” devoid of hypocrisy, you must choose today if tithing would play any role in this regard. You may also opt for more robust ways of being supportive to the church and the poor.

TITHES: TO PAY or NOT TO PAY? That’s the question. Dear Christian, the choice is yours.

*Dr. Ude, FWO Research Fellow, KU Leuven, Belgium

https://www.vanguardngr.com/2021/12/much-ado-about-payment-of-tithes/

jpphilips:
A lot have been said about Buhari, how he brought hardship on Nigerians, how he is responsible for all the suffering in Nigeria, is that theory backed with facts and global economic realities or the shenanigans of few individuals basking in the Euphoria of ignorance?
Since I must make a choice between our present loud political gladiators, I armed myself with Economics textbooks and news archive, here is what i discovered.

Nigeria an oil producing and oil dependent economy suffered a global economic hit called crude oil price shock
it is the sudden drop in price of crude oil in the commodity trading market, it has occurred at different times in History nearly every decade. Countries that are hardest hit by crude shock are basically countries that not only produce crude oil in significant amount but solely depend on it as their foreign exchange earner. While oil shocks have asymmetric effects in oil-exporting developing countries; lower oil prices lead to major revenue cuts and ensuing stagnation in the economy, but higher oil prices and accompanying higher revenues do not translate into sustained economic growth.

What are the effects of crude shock in oil producing developing economy?

Forex scarcity: Most developing economies whether oil producing or not depend on importation to survive, where foreign currency becomes scarce, industries, individuals that have significant need for forex will likely close shops giving birth to the second problem unemployment then finally the master Recession.

Unemployment: When industries no longer have forex to buy spare parts, can no longer afford raw materials, production slows, sales slows, profit eroded, workers sacked, since the volume of activities in the economy is directly proportional to the GDP, the GDP contracts and birth another economic monster Recession.

Recession is a chain reaction of unpalatable economic events that shows the economy is not experiencing growth but contracting, lets look at the effects of recession, high energy cost (energy in most developing economies are subsidized one way or another) crude shock and eventually recession erodes government revenues till a point where it could no longer afford subsidies and other things it used to afford.
In Nigeria where our Electricity Generation companies are subsidized, petroleum products are subsidized,you will understand that such partial or complete subsidy removal will quickly skyrocket the cost of living generally, transportation, cost of food etc are equally affected that leads to another monster called Inflation.

Inflation: is defined as a phenomenon where huge bills are in search of few goods, how is that possible? when the industries that produce goods closed down, imports could not be sustained due to Forex shortages where will the goods come from? the absence of those goods while the bills remain triggers inflation, causes hunger and eventually poverty and devaluation of local currency.

Devaluation is when global reserve currencies trade higher than your currency, of course you recall that an economy in crude shock first suffers Forex shortages, that robs the central bank (in the case of Nigeria) the ability to fix the currency at a reasonable exchange rate.
The local currency is allowed to float along a band the cbn thinks may not be too hurtful to the economy.
Forex ban is placed on certain commodities, debit cards like Visa, Mastercard et al are all placed on monthly transaction limits as a reflection of the reality of forex shortages.

Between 2015-2018, all these happened in the Nigerian economy, then I asked "are we the only oil dependent economies in the world? why us alone?
The answer took me to several countries in the world and I realized that other oil producing countries dont depend on oil alone, countries like Russia though the largest producer of crude oil in the world, has a robust defense industry that contribute significantly to its GDP, Russia equally enjoys large market shares in Gas distribution in Eurasia, by the time crude oil shock hit, Russia had over $400b in reserves,
It became clear that the only economic move that could hold off crude oil shock and other global economic shocks is a robust foreign exchange reserves (Savings).

Permit me to take us down our economic history, in 2008 during the global melt down, the then CBN governor prof. Chukwuma Charles soludo bragged that the Nigerian economy is immune to global shocks? That would have sounded ridiculous but it is true, what did he do? they launched an economic strategy called National Economic Empowerment And Development Strategy NEEDS.
This strategy recommended that once crude oil is sold, the balance above the budget benchmark is kept in an account called the ECA, by the time that government left and another took over in 2007, both the ECA & Foreign reserve account held over $68b in reserves, in a $200b economy at the time, that reserve was significant enough to whither any storm that comes the way of our economy, Much later into the crisis, Nigeria later relaxed its exchange rate to 155 to a dollar. now we know that Nigeria had in the past stood resilience in the face of global shocks with a culture of Savings.


Fast forward to 2015, The top four producers of crude oil in Africa by their production, Nigeria, Angola, Algeria and Egypt were all in recession even though Egypt does not significantly depend on oil but her economy was shattered. Algeria escaped recession because by 2014, just like Nigeria in 2008, Algeria had a foreign reserve balance of $90b in a $156.1b economy.You can see that the Robust reserve of Algeria was their savior in this modern crude shock era. The previous administration in Nigeria boasted of leaving behind a paltry $19b for a $500b economy at the time, that amount is not even enough to pay for imports let alone absorb global economic shocks, so Nigeria can be rightly described in late 2014 as an oil dependent economy with no savings. How important is this savings?

Lets take our research to the Second largest producer of crude oil Angola, just like Nigeria with no significant savings, Angola's challenges needs no introduction, let facts speak for itself

Angola suffered severe Forex & currency challenges just like Nigeria. According to Bloomberg
They not only devalued their currency, they equally allowed it to float like Nigeria's
Angola devalued its currency as the OPEC member sought to revive an economy still reeling from the oil-price crash four years ago.



Borrowing to fund Budget deficits, just like Nigeria, Angola has borrowed to the point of requesting a bail out from the IMF
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2018/08/angola-says-to-request-4-5-bn-imf-loan-as-crisis-lingers/

Unemployment Rate in Angola increased to 20 percent in 2017 from 19.90 percent in 2016.
https://tradingeconomics.com/angola/unemployment-rate


Inflation in Angola was a whooping 23.67 percent in December 2017, data on the national statistics agency's website showed on Wednesday.
Price growth on a month-on-month basis rose to 1.47 percent in January from 1.2 percent previously.

Poverty in Angola
According to Angola's 2001 MPI, more than 77% of the population was multidimensionally poor. ... The latest available World Bank figure for income poverty in Angola, from 2008, shows that 36.6% of the population is income poor. Angola's population is currently estimated at 29.7 million.

I can go on and on the list is endless, as a matter of undeniable fact, Angola just like Nigeria are the largest producers in Africa, they practically did not save enough and they were hit hard by crude price shock. to balance the analysis, it will be unfair to discuss those that didn't save without giving kudos to those that saved, like i said previously, Algeria save a whooping $90b when the going was good, as such its economy was immune to crude shock.

Russia like we said though had currency challenges during the period under review ostensibly because of western sanctions, Russia had over $400b in reserves by ending of 2014.

Saudi Arabia was immune to crude shock not without little currency & subsidy issues ostensibly because of its huge financing of the war in Yemen, they were sitting on a comfortable $732b by the end of 2014.

Some even blamed it on Avengers attack of 2016

Niger delta avengers was a non issue, if you noticed, I expunged them from my analysis, here is why;
You were in crude shock from late 2014, Avengers struck in 2016, since 2014, your GDP wasn't showing any growth but retrogression or doldrums meaning you were heading towards recession anyways as a result of crude shock.

If Avengers did not strike, OPEC would have asked us to cut production to boost prices,
read:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-28/opec-said-to-agree-on-first-oil-output-cut-in-eight-years
So Avengers or any form of production cut at the time was a non issue.

Nigerian people, what is your present government doing to stem this tide that has shocked the fabrics of our nation to the Marrow?


The vice president being the economic manager of the country Launched the EGRP, with it Nigeria even in recession was able to save $47b in our foreign reserve, at this pace, I have no doubt that this money will hit $100b in the next 4yrs, that is a guarantee that our economy will become immune to global shocks, not just crude shocks. (Algerian model)
The moment that money crossed $40b, forex shortages disappeared, importers stopped complaining, debit cards relaxed their limits etc, that was a killer stroke in our economic recovery strategy.inflation has responded to the potency of the EGRP to 11.23% from 18.8%.

Nigeria is building a Gas liquefying plant called the NLNG train 7 project, that will in a way increase revenue from Gas against depending on oil alone, there are other ongoing Gas projects like the AKK projects and other Gas for power projects (Russian model)
https://www.vanguardngr.com/2018/07/nnpc-signs-agreement-for-seven-critical-gas-projects/

In conclusion, I can state for a fact that the economic challenges of this country has nothing to do with Buhari under the circumstances he met on ground, we have a chance to fix culpability of blames where it rightly belongs on crude shock, or replace this government whose framework seems promising with another leadership of questionable integrity. past government whose inaction landed us in this mess in the first place.
A leadership in the past that we tasked to privatize our industries, all failed save for the one that ended up in his pocket, yet he claimed to create Jobs? How many jobs were lost in that privatization scam where 56 government entities perished?
Where is our NITEL, ALSCON, Nicon Insurance to mention a few? Leadership that claims to create jobs but his company PRODECO folded up? Leadership that claim to create jobs yet it was Buhari that sacked foreigners littered everywhere in his company, does an ordinary logistics company need that much foreigners?

Leadership that is a case study for corruption and money laundering by the US Senate committee on Homeland security, Leadership that preaches restructuring but but enjoys monopoly in Niger delta sea ports? Atiku is a walking scam, may we not walk into the scam called Atiku because of lie peddled and perfected by the same holocausts that landed us in bondage, every scam comes with a loud noise, say No to Atiku.........

You have my express authority to circulate at will

This is exactly what I've been screaming at the top of lungs. Nigerians like are not inclined to do any sort of deep research to understand the root causes of our issues. Little wonder they are swayed easily by politicians. Thanks for taking time to research this

Atiku has always been associated with corruption and can't shake it off that easy. But I think, as a way to clear his name and in a first-of-its-kind manner, he should commission an independent audit of his wealth and publish the audit results. This will put the matter of corruption to bed, once and for all.

johnseno:
what year?

Sorry I forgot to mention that. It's a 2008 Mazda CX9.

Thanks

Hi Johnseno, I'm about to ship a Mazda CX9 to Lagos via roro. What is the all-in cost to clear? Many thanks

Aircraft manufacturers typically give steep discounts to list prices.

Below is a quora answer to a question on airline costs:

"To be clear, aircraft cost much less than their list price. A Boeing 737-700NG is listed at $80.6 million but the aircraft actually sells at a 52% discount of $38.7 million. Boeing even recently closed a deal for 20 737-700s for only $22.7 million each to stay competitive.

Another example is the much larger Boeing 777–300ER, which is listed at $320 million but has been sold for as little as $150 million. A Boeing 777–200LR sells for as little as $118 Million. Airbus also offers huge discounts in the range of 45% to 55% off."

How long does it take for an airline to break even on a new airplane purchase? by Ty Joseph https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-for-an-airline-to-break-even-on-a-new-airplane-purchase/answer/Ty-Joseph-1?share=27776828&srid=JbRm

This is one of the most inspiring messages and speaks to the heart of Africa's problems.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJRtYNdFRHo

The trial of pastor Jones

The truth about tithing
(unknown author)

Judge: Mr. Jones you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income as per the LAW to your Regd. organization (called Church) and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn't tithe God would curse them.
How do you plead?

Mr. Jones: I plead not guilty your Honor,
I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Judge: Is it not true, Mr. Jones, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Mr. Jones: Yes, you are exactly right, that's what I just told you.

Judge: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13 but it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham's tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn't he?

Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Judge: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: No.

Judge: Mr. Jones, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: Well, just once.

Judge: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Mr. Jones: No it does not.

Judge: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: Well the Bible says it was from the plunders of war?

Judge: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Mr. Jones: Yes that's what the Bible says.

Judge: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Mr. Jones: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Judge: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Mr. Jones: I guess not

Judge: You guess not, you are a teacher and you are only guessing, is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Mr. Jones: No it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Judge: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: I believe it says plunder?

Judge: So plunder could be any number of things?

Mr. Jones: Yes, I suppose

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people's possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money correct?

Mr. Jones: Yes you are correct, it does not say just money

Judge: As a matter of fact money is never mentioned in that account at all is that correct Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor, money is never mentioned just goods and food and people.

Judge: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Mr. Jones: That is right.

Judge: I only have one last question for you Mr. Jones, did God command Abraham to give this plunder tithe to Melchizedek?

Mr. Jones: No, it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Judge: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their weekly paycheck to a local Regd.Organization-church?
Considering all the evidence I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Mr. Jones: Ok your Honor, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Judge: Let's see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me Mr. Jones.

Mr. Jones: In Genesis chapter 28 starting at verse 20 it says. Jacob vowed a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father's house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God's house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you."

Judge: You said we should follow Jacobs example, is that right Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: Yes that is right, he vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Judge: Let me point out one thing for you Mr. Jones, Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob's example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Mr. Jones: That is not what I meant.

Judge: What did you mean then?

Mr. Jones: That we should give God a tenth also.

Judge: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Mr. Jones: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Judge: It seems fairly obvious to me that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Mr. Jones: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Judge: You have not said anything yet to convince me one little bit that people are obligated to tithe money to the local organizational institutions -churches and that you were justified in what you were doing. You have taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Mr. Jones: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. So you see your Honor, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Judge: Answer me this Mr Jones, Who was God Speaking to here?

Mr Jones: To the People of Israel

Judge: Can you please read Malachi 2: 1 Please Mr Jones

Mr Jones: Now This command is for you O PRIEST !!

Judge: Did God stop talking to the Priest in chp. 3 Mr Jones?

Mr Jones: No your Honor!

Judge: Answer me this Mr. Jones, were you aware that God never required anyone to tithe money?

Mr. Jones: No I didn't know that.

Judge: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Mr. Jones: well your Honor that is because they didn't have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Judge: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. The food was the tithe. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Mr. Jones: I don't know

Judge: I also want you to know that these verses speak to nation under the Old Testament law. As you may or may not know Jesus fulfilled the law, it is no longer binding.
Once again you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Mr. Jones: I do not know of any.

Judge: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Mr. Jones: Man must have.

Judge: So far all you have done Mr. Jones, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Mr. Jones: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that Jesus told us to tithe.

Judge: Ok let me hear it.

Mr. Jones: Jesus said in Matthew 23:23 "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone. See Jesus said we should be tithing.

Judge: Let me ask you a question, who was Jesus talking to?

Mr. Jones: The scripture says the Scribes and Pharisees.

Judge: Are you a scribe or Pharisee?

Mr. Jones: Of course not.

Judge: Jesus also said in that passage, you have left undone the weightier matters of the law. Are we under the law Mr. Jones?

Mr. Jones: No.

Judge: Why not?

Mr. Jones: Because Jesus fulfilled it.

Judge: When did Jesus fulfill the law?

Mr. Jones: When He was crucified.

Judge: So the law was still in effect until Jesus death?

Mr. Jones: That is correct.

Judge: I think you know where I am going with this don't you?

Mr. Jones: Yes your Honor. Since Jesus had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Judge: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Mr. Jones: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Judge: Is money mentioned?

Mr. Jones: No it was not.

Judge: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Mr. Jones: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We have our mortgage payment, utility bills, staff salary and a host of other things that we have to pay each week. We depend on the money from the people.

Judge:By "church" you mean your organization isn't it Mr Jones ?
-The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Does It Mr Jones?
In closing, let me recap a few things for you Mr. Jones.
-The tithe was never money;
-The tithe was an Old Testament law, which is no longer binding. When it was binding the tithe was used to take care of people, not buildings.
- We are under a new covenant now.
Paul instructs the Corinthian believers how they are to give. He says in second Corinthians chapter 9 verse 7, Let each man give according as he has determined in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver. So each believer is supposed to give as he or she has determined in his or her heart.
If they determine to Give 10% well and good, If they keep aside some every week to meet this more better.If you are trying to make people give under the threat of being cursed or any other reason even blessing, you are wrong. Someone can not give cheerfully if they are being forced to give. If 'your church can not survive on freewill offerings maybe God is not part of your church at all.
Mr Jones, Do you intentionally put your people under a Curse or a Bondage?

Mr Jones: Of Course Not !!

Judge: Can you Read in context Gal 3:10-11 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them ....
AND
Gal 5:1-4 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....

Mr. Jones: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. I can see now that I was completely wrong. I did not study the scripture for myself, I only took mans word for it.
Yes ' am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore.

Sentencing....... All Arise .......

Mou's game plan is like putting all your investments in bonds - yes they are safe but at what reward level? What pays off in the long run? Isn't it better to take the risks and chances at the beginning and then go bonds towards the end of the season when things are clearer? Anyways, na him strategy, na him be manager. Me just think he can try to take some games to the other side - he's got a very decent team..

Lindelof in. Imagine killing time to get one point. This is ridiculous.

mexxmoney:
Mourinho is just annoying me with his negative football. Man utd has a better team than Liverpool and yet he has the team playing defensive as if they are playing against Barcelona

My point exactly - this man united team is better than Liverpool. Why go defensive and purely negative. Take some risks and aim for big rewards.