I am tired of the "free will" mantra that christians always use to explain away that that make rubbish of the biblical assertions. There is nothing like "free will" in the bible. "free will" is a word coined out by christian apologist to explain away all the ridiculious assertions of the bible.


Psa 139:16 You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.

Job 14:5 You have decided the length of our lives. You know how many months we will live, and we are not given a minute longer.

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Rom 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac,
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--
Rom 9:12 she was told, "The older will serve the younger."
Rom 9:13 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (i wonder why some fools here mock allah because of this.)
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"
Rom 9:20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
Rom 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory

Rom 11:2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began
2Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

so there you have it. there is absolute nothing like free will in the bible, even jesus said that he speaks in parables because he doesn't want people to understand and ask for forgivness, so enough of the "human beings have free will" because there is no such thing in the bible, besides the bible clearly says that the biblegod plans and chooses everything before hand so enough of all the lies and using the free will mantra to explain away the inconsistencies of your arguments and postulations. there is no such thing as free will in the bible

Here is another:

Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Very, very strong "evidence" for Christians (since you believe this stuff) then there is no "free will".

More evidence that there is no free will in the biblegod predestines everything

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

mazaje is fighting with himself here eh?

davidylan:

mazaje is fighting with himself here eh?

you wish i am only pointing out what is in the bible and debuking the lies you guys keep bandying around when put in a tight corner. the notion that any body that questions the veracity of what your religion asserts is fighting it is ridiculous. are you fighting your self when you show the inconsistences of the koran to the moslems in the islamic section? deluded goon. . . . .

dear mazaje:

Every word of the Bible is true, divine and eternal - Praise God!

Its amazing that you yourself have proved with your own thread on freewill. I want to ask that your posts on freewill, are they out of freewill or not? I think they are and so the debate ends unless you claim to be a zombie.

I hope you will acknowledge the truth and walk in the light when it revealed and not continue to shut it out and keep walking in darkness.

blessings,

Truth11:

dear mazaje:

Every word of the Bible is true, divine and eternal - Praise God!

Its amazing that you yourself have proved with your own thread on freewill. I want to ask that your posts on freewill, are they out of freewill or not? I think they are and so the debate ends unless you claim to be a zombie.

I hope you will acknowledge the truth and walk in the light when it revealed and not continue to shut it out and keep walking in darkness.

blessings,

save all your religious mantra for yourself. . . . what truth are you talking about? the truth that says the bible god has predestined everything? the truth that says that the biblegod does not believe in equal level playing ground? the truth that says your imaginary god saves whom ever he will and hardens whom ever he will and will still punish people for hardening their hearts?

Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

what kind of incompetent and stupid deity is this that will harden peoples hearts and punish them for hardening their hearts against him? i choose to believe in reality than a bunch of incompetent and imaginary deity that that does not know his left from his right.

mazaje:

save all your religious mantra for yourself. . . . what truth are you talking about? the truth that says the bible god has predestined everything? the truth that says that the biblegod does not believe in equal level playing ground? the truth that says your imaginary god saves whom ever he will and hardens whom ever he will and will still punish people for hardening their hearts?

what kind of incompetent and stupid deity is this that will harden peoples hearts and punish them for hardening their hearts against him? i choose to believe in reality than a bunch of incompetent and imaginary deity that that does not know his left from his right.

thanks a million for this thread.
This has served as a reassurance for my spirit, that I am on the right path.

I hope u know what awaits you?

noetic:

thanks a million for this thread.
This has served as a reassurance for my spirit, that I am on the right path.

I hope u know what awaits you?

This post serve as an evidence that you are more deluded than i thought. of course i know what awaits me, do you know that allah will burn you in his hell for eternity for not believing in him? deluded freak. . . . .

mazaje:

This post serve as an evidence that you are more deluded than i thought. of course i know what awaits me, do you know that allah will burn you in his hell for eternity for not believing in him? deluded freak. . . . .

Look at ur contradicting irrational beliefs.
ignorant idiot.

noetic:

Look at ur contradicting irrational beliefs.
ignorant idiot.

i agree, keep on waiting for that incompetent and stupid yahweh to come and give u rest in the imaginary heaven that anceint romans/hebrews created in with their imaginations.

mazaje:

i agree, keep on waiting for that incompetent and stupid yahweh to come and give u rest in the imaginary heaven that anceint romans/hebrews created in with their imaginations.

again ur opinion.

ignorance could b astonishing. y discuss, debate and attack an imaginary, u dont believe in? This is medically called madness.

noetic:

again ur opinion.

ignorance could b astonishing. y discuss, debate and attack an imaginary, u dont believe in? This is medically called madness.

I've always been amazed by this. Is it possible for God to both exist and not exist at the same time? These people seem to be of 2 minds.

noetic:

again ur opinion.

ignorance could b astonishing. y discuss, debate and attack an imaginary, u dont believe in? This is medically called madness.

why are your fellow christians discussing attacking and ridiculing an imaginary god called allah whom they do not believe exist on the islamic section? guess we all are mad then. . . .

davidylan:

I've always been amazed by this. Is it possible for God to both exist and not exist at the same time? These people seem to be of 2 minds.

is it possible for allah to exist and not to exist at the same time? why are you spending too much time attacking an imaginary deity? you seem to have no mind. . . . .

mazaje:

is it possible for allah to exist and not to exist at the same time? why are you spending too much time attacking an imaginary deity? you seem to have no mind. . . . .

Does allah exist? Oh you bet he does . . . as a demon not a god.

davidylan:

Does allah exist? Oh you bet he does . . . as a demon not a god.

mazaje:

why are your fellow christians discussing attacking and ridiculing an imaginary god called allah whom they do not believe exist on the islamic section? guess we all are mad then. . . .

davidylan:

Does allah exist? Oh you bet he does . . . as a demon not a god.

I couldn't have said it better.

ignorance could b astonishing. y discuss, debate and attack an imaginary, u dont believe in? This is medically called madness.

atheists do not attack God, cos he is indeed imaginary. we attack religious people who believe this imaginary beign. we want them to open their eyes and come back to thier senses, to stop believing in imaginary beings, cos ppl who do so are practically deluded.

[tr]Quote from: davidylan on Yesterday at 07:59:52 PM
Does allah exist? Oh you bet he does . . . as a demon not a god.


Allah is a demon.
Are all believers in different religions worshipping demons?

I wonder. Do muslims think that Yahweh is a demon too?

Mazaje,

You contradict your thread by posting by your freewill!!

Why dont you answer the questions:

1) are you posting out of freewill or without thinking?
2) Do you have a freewill to reject Jesus or is this a thoughtless act?

blessings,

Truth11:

Mazaje,

You contradict your thread by posting by your freewill!!

How?

Why dont you answer the questions:

1) are you posting out of freewill or without thinking?
2) Do you have a freewill to reject Jesus or is this a thoughtless act?

blessings,

sure i am posting because i want to show the inconsistences that lie in the free will argument. The bible says that humans have no right to choose(free will) because the biblegod is the one that decides or predestines everything even before people were born, he chooses to take people to heaven or cast them into hell even before they were born. It seems you did not read what i posted above here are some of them again.

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Rom 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

here we have the biblegod saying that he chooses to do with people what every he likes, if it pleases him he will harden their hearts against him if it doesn't he will choose them to be amongts his chosen ones, so do u still want to talk about people having the free will to either choose the bible god or another god? it is written in the bible that the biblegod has predestined everything to happen according to his will. i posted this because i am tired of christians using the free will card when ever they are cornered to explain away assertions from the bible that do not make sense to them and others.

I don't expect people that are anti-bible or anti-Christian to believe anything the bible says.But below is an article that really makes clear
the position of a Christian's will in relation to God.

Check it here.

ttalks:

I don't expect people that are anti-bible or anti-Christian to believe anything the bible says.But below is an article that really makes clear
the position of a Christian's will in relation to God.

Check it here.

I went through your link and the apologetics is very ridiculous it does not even address any of the verse i posted above. i just dislike it when christians keep lying and using the free will argument to explain away tbiblial assetions that make no sense at all. here is the bible in its own words.

Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

There is no free will according to the bible besides there is no such owrd in the bible. the bible god choses to save or destroy whom ever he wants according to his will. . . . what a god. . . . . .

@poster. I am very happy that God has opened your eyes to see these truths. Whether you copied those verses from another site or not. FREE WILL is a gospel of the Church. One of many false things that satan is using the church to preach. I have in the past some here to say these things, but people want to listen to only what their church and pstors tell them and not to the bible. Those verses have said it all.

God bless

I was telling a "man of God" one day and He gave me John 1:12. (I'm 20 yrs and He is 57) Then I reminded him of the biblical rule of studying the bible (which is comparing scripture with scripture and not taking just one verse). So i asked him to read further (verse 13). I also gave him some of the verses you have sited. After that he couldn't say anything again.

toluxa1:

I was telling a "man of God" one day and He gave me John 1:12. (I'm 20 yrs and He is 57) Then I reminded him of the biblical rule of studying the bible (which is comparing scripture with scripture and not taking just one verse). So i asked him to read further (verse 13). I also gave him some of the verses you have sited. After that he couldn't say anything again.

If christians read the bible they way you say it then there will be no more christians left in the world because the truth will become more obvious example. . .
Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37
On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17

The distance between jerusalem and galilee is at least 100 km. so one of the writers is definately telling a lie. . . .

When was jesus crucified on the eve of the passover or on the passover itself? it depends on the gospel account you read, again one of the writers of the gospel is lying here again because jesus can not be cruficifed on both days. if you read the bible by comparing what other parts of the bible say then all the lies and contradictions will become more obvious to you, they lies and contradictions cancel each other out. the creation account in genesis one and two cancel each other out.

mazaje:

I went through your link and the apologetics is very ridiculous it does not even address any of the verse i posted above. i just dislike it when christians keep lying and using the free will argument to explain away tbiblial assetions that make no sense at all. here is the bible in its own words.


There is no free will according to the bible besides there is no such owrd in the bible. the bible god choses to save or destroy whom ever he wants according to his will. . . . what a god. . . . . .

I didn't post that link to explain the verses u quoted.
Rather,I posted it to help u understand the true position of the Christian's will in relation to God.
To help u understand that the understanding you probably have as regards freewill as bandied about by most Christians is wrong.

A true Christian is subject to the will of God.
A Christian life is one about denying one's self and being subject to the will of God.

Maybe most of the "Christans" u know are probably not bound by/subject to the will of God, but that does not distort the truth from what it is.

ttalks:

I didn't post that link to explain the verses u quoted.
Rather,I posted it to help u understand the true position of the Christian's will in relation to God.
To help u understand that the understanding you probably have as regards freewill as bandied about by most Christians is wrong.

A true Christian is subject to the will of God.
A Christian life is one about denying one's self and being subject to the will of God.

Maybe most of the "Christans" u know are probably not bound by/subject to the will of God, but that does not distort the truth from what it is.

What makes you say that? what is the will god the biblegod if i may ask? most of the christians i know are no different from any other christian out there because they pick and choose what to follow in the bible, keep in mind that there is no universally acceptable christian doctorine. its just all a bunch of gimmick and confusion because every body just creates his own god or deity out of the writings of the bible. . . a good example is the christian ection here on nairaland no two christians agree on anything, as far as daviylan is concerned lady and the entire catholic church are going to rot in hell for the beliefs they hold and he has every point to back his belief against theirs from his own interpretaion and opinion of the bible, sir john as long as he knows think he is saved while donnie, pepeye and all the members of christ embassy are misinterperting what the bible says, he also can provide evidence to support his assertions from the bible, the christ embassy members believe that donnie is an agent of satan out to destroy the word of god, they also have more than enough evidence from the bible to prove their case. seven day adventist, jehovah witness etc all have created their own deity out of the bible, any body can do this, even the early christians do not agree with each other, read pauls letters and you will see it for ur self. the whole thing is just a circle of confusion and disagreement(nigerian pastors are presently fighting each other, TB joshua vs the pentacostal movement adeboye and his crew). most christians i know are like any other christian out there because they create their own god in their own image out of their understanding or interpretation of the bible.

sure i am posting because i want to show the inconsistences that lie in the free will argument.

Mazaje:
There are no inconsistencies in the freewill argument. Every word of the Bible is full of wisdom, knowledge and is perfect! It satisfies the soul absolutely! It is written that we are made in the image of God, so we have a freewill and so does God.

The reason for not understanding the Bible begins when a person comes on a high pedestal or superiority attitude or thinks about oneself as above God. Other reasons are the sinful nature and proud state of mind of a person which keeps from understanding. Every person who comes like a little child, in humility will receive grace and revelation of God. When people try to belittle God of the Bible, they will never understand.

A small example of carnal person trying to explain and argue about the teaching of God of the Bible is like a person born blind trying to teach about light to people who see. And if the blind challenges those who claim to see that there is actually nothing called light and all that they see and experience is inconsistencies, how can there be any communication!! Paul tried to tell King Agrippa against this same attitude of jews who tried to prove that the light Paul saw was no light! "So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. "

You are unable to understand the freewill of man vs freewill of God and foreknowledge of God.

If there was no freewill then you would not have the freedom to post against the Bible. There is freewill to chose Jesus or reject him. You have decided to chose the second so far. God will honor that when the silver chord of a person is severed and one has to stand before the creator and face judgement on the freewill choice made.

, the one that decides or predestines everything even before people were born, he chooses to take people to heaven or cast them into hell even before they were born. It seems you did not read what i posted above here are some of them again.e bible says that humans have no right to choose(free will) because the biblegod is

I am surprised that people who are trying to disapprove the Bible strangely miss out on so many of the promises and invitations of a loving, forgiving, restoring God. Why do you always try to quote only few out-of-context scriptures - are you prejudiced or ignorant of the treasures of love, forgiveness and blessings through Jesus? The nature of the God of the Bible is to save and forgive and a loving God. Consider the following scriptures and if you humble to accept his invitation, I can assure you of eternal joy and peace!:
"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"

"For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!"

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

"I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness.


If you dont see God's love and forigveness through these - you have decided to stand against him.

Blessings,

mazaje:

What makes you say that? what is the will god the biblegod if i may ask? [b]most of the christians i know are no different from any other christian out there because they pick and choose what to follow in the bible, keep in mind that there is no universally acceptable christian doctorine. its just all a bunch of gimmick and confusion because every body just creates his own god or deity out of the writings of the bible. . . a good example is the christian ection here on nairaland no two christians agree on anything, as far as daviylan is concerned lady and the entire catholic church are going to rot in hell for the beliefs they hold and he has every point to back his belief against theirs from his own interpretaion and opinion of the bible, sir john as long as he knows think he is saved while donnie, pepeye and all the members of christ embassy are misinterperting what the bible says, he also can provide evidence to support his assertions from the bible, the christ embassy members believe that donnie is an agent of satan out to destroy the word of god, they also have more than enough evidence from the bible to prove their case. seven day adventist, jehovah witness etc all have created their own deity out of the bible, any body can do this, even the early christians do not agree with each other, read pauls letters and you will see it for ur self[/b]. the whole thing is just a circle of confusion and disagreement(nigerian pastors are presently fighting each other, TB joshua vs the pentacostal movement adeboye and his crew). most christians i know are like any other christian out there because they create their own god in their own image out of their understanding or interpretation of the bible.

But you should not be surprised that there are varying understandings about the word of God.The bible itself has already said that there would be such a case.It is up to every Christian to rightfully divide the word of God.

The fact remains that there is one particular truth that the bible portrays and it is those who rightfully divide the words within that would discover that truth and live by it.

@ Mataye

I thought u're thoughtfull enough bro. Its seems u don't understand the simple meaning of Free-will because of your pride. If you claim to be wise, you'll never understand the simple truth. Please stop struggling with urself. Apostle Paul, you know him I guess? Go read his past history bro.