Truth11:



Mazaje:
There are no inconsistencies in the freewill argument. Every word of the Bible is full of wisdom, knowledge and is perfect! It satisfies the soul absolutely! It is written that we are made in the image of God, so we have a freewill and so does God.

The reason for not understanding the Bible begins when a person comes on a high pedestal or superiority attitude or thinks about oneself as above God. Other reasons are the sinful nature and proud state of mind of a person which keeps from understanding. Every person who comes like a little child, in humility will receive grace and revelation of God. When people try to belittle God of the Bible, they will never understand.

A small example of carnal person trying to explain and argue about the teaching of God of the Bible is like a person born blind trying to teach about light to people who see. And if the blind challenges those who claim to see that there is actually nothing called light and all that they see and experience is inconsistencies, how can there be any communication!! Paul tried to tell King Agrippa against this same attitude of jews who tried to prove that the light Paul saw was no light! "So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. "

You are unable to understand the freewill of man vs freewill of God and foreknowledge of God.

If there was no freewill then you would not have the freedom to post against the Bible. There is freewill to chose Jesus or reject him. You have decided to chose the second so far. God will honor that when the silver chord of a person is severed and one has to stand before the creator and face judgement on the freewill choice made.

I am surprised that people who are trying to disapprove the Bible strangely miss out on so many of the promises and invitations of a loving, forgiving, restoring God. Why do you always try to quote only few out-of-context scriptures - are you prejudiced or ignorant of the treasures of love, forgiveness and blessings through Jesus? The nature of the God of the Bible is to save and forgive and a loving God. Consider the following scriptures and if you humble to accept his invitation, I can assure you of eternal joy and peace!:
"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"

[/b]

[b]Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

"I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness.


If you dont see God's love and forigveness through these - you have decided to stand against him.

Blessings,

all this apologetics you did not even address any of the bible passages i posted. . .

Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

georgecso:

@ Mataye

I thought u're thoughtfull enough bro. Its seems u don't understand the simple meaning of Free-will because of your pride. If you claim to be wise, you'll never understand the simple truth. Please stop struggling with urself. Apostle Paul, you know him I guess? Go read his past history bro.

another meaningless apologetics you did not even care to address what is written in the bible. do you know prophet mohammed? go and read his past history. . . .

mazaje:

another meaningless apologetics you did not even care to address what is written in the bible.

Mazaje,
I dont have to listen to all that you are driving me to, I have the mind of Christ to respond to what is necessary. Here is the reason for not addressing the passages you posted (Abraham also did not listen to the rich fool shouting from hell after ignoring all the calls on earth, suddenly he becomes enlightened about Jesus and salvation on the wrong side of life):
'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

So much has been said and you still are unable to hear!! How wonderful is the word of God in explaining this situation, so true and right 2000 years ago, I praise God!!
'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. "
What wisdom of God!! All glory to God!!

Truth11:

Mazaje,
I dont have to listen to all that you are driving me to, I have the mind of Christ to respond to what is necessary. Here is the reason for not addressing the passages you posted (Abraham also did not listen to the rich fool shouting from hell after ignoring all the calls on earth, suddenly he becomes enlightened about Jesus and salvation on the wrong side of life):
'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

So much has been said and you still are unable to hear!! How wonderful is the word of God in explaining this situation, so true and right 2000 years ago, I praise God!!
'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. "
What wisdom of God!! All glory to God!!

what is this you are saying? i showed you where the biblegod says that he predsetines everything and you are here saying that i will here but never understand and i will see but never preceive, jesus himself said(if we are to believe what the bible says) that he speaks in parable because he does not want people to understand so that they will not ask for forgiveness. there is nothing like free will in the bible no such word exist besides it is written in very clear terms that the biblegod predestines everything.

how many times do u want me to quote what is inside the bible for you?

Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

the biblegod if we are to go by what the biblesays about him has already predestined everything according to his will.

Romans 3:3---For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Job3:23---Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?

1 Cor 12:13---For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. {Gentiles: Gr. Greeks}
Gal 5:1--- Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

he speaks in parable because he does not want people to understand so that they will not ask for forgiveness.

why are you ignoring the next verse?
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
if you are interested and not hard hearted you can come, otherwise you will continue in your ways. Its YOU. I am telling it out of experience and you are speaking out of ignorance. If you repent of your sins and asked Jesus to come into your heart, you would not be saying all this and know for yourself who and what the Lord is and experience the truth.

The Lord says: For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

The Bible is not only for salvation but also death and judgement to those who reject it out of their FREEWILL:
But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him. For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task? Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Truth11:

why are you ignoring the next verse?
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
if you are interested and not hard hearted you can come, otherwise you will continue in your ways. Its YOU. .

The same bible says that it is the same biblegod that hardens peoples hearts against him.

Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

The Lord says: For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

what is jew and what is gentile? the bible was written by tribal fools who thought thatthe world expanded from the middle east to some parts of africa only. . . .

The Bible is not only for salvation but also death and judgement to those who reject it out of their FREEWILL:

There is no such thing as free will in the bible the word does not exist inside the bible and the bible does not agree with what you are trying to say.

2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Dt.30:19
I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life.

Joshua 24:15
Choose you this day whom ye will serve, But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The same bible says that it is the same biblegod that hardens peoples hearts against him.

your FREEWILL. God gives salvation to the humble and hardens the wicked as he knows the hearts of men. he crowns the humble with salvation.

the bible was written by tribal fools who thought thatthe world expanded from the middle east to some parts of africa only. . . .

Your speech reveals about you, not about the Bible.

They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire , In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings.

One main work of the devil is to accuse the children of God day and night, his other name is ACCUSER OF BROTHERS. Why are you taking that role.

Hope u are ready for a bit of reading.
This article has been in my gmail inbox for a long time now.I dug it up to paste here since I think it bears some relevance here.
It was written by Yomi Adegboye.


Freewill and bondage of the will

Freewill may be described in very simple terms, in the context that we speak, as the liberty to choose between good and evil.

Bondage of the will is a term I use to describe a Biblical fact that the will of a person is in bondage to his nature i.e. he cannot engage his will outside of his nature. An example: because God is holy, He cannot sin. That is clear from Scripture. Another example: because man is sinful, all his thoughts, actions and choices are influenced by his sinfulness. According to the Bible, even his apparently “good” or “righteous” works are all evil before God. That is why Paul was bold to write:

Romans 3:10-12 ESV
10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.

12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

We may say a man is good, but before God all men are evil and unrighteous, without the imputation of the life of Christ.

A brief outline:

Adam was created indeed with a free will
Adam was originally neither good nor evil
When Adam disobeyed and ate of that tree, he chose the path of evil, and became corrupted by nature. That corruption has been passed to every man born of man and woman ever since. We are all born with freewill, but now that will is limited to the boundaries of fallen humanity. That will only exercises itself towards evil


The two-fold nature of God’s will

A study of the Bible shows a two-sided dimension to God’s will. One, there is God’s will in the sense of what He has planned for to happen, chosen to do or has chosen to allow happen.

Two, there is God’s will in terms of what He has commanded men to do. For the purposes of brevity, we may call the former “God’s sovereign will“, and the latter “God’s will of command“.

Reconciling these two dimensions of God’s will has always proved difficult for man. But let’s see an example: God had a plan for man that He knew would involve sin. He knew man would sin, and chose to allow that in His plan. Sin didn’t catch Him by surprise. He knew it would happen and He wove it into the plan. It was His choice.

But still, God commands man not to sin. He knew Adam would exercise his freewill to bring humanity into subjection and bondage to sin. He chose to allow this happen, but His commandment to Adam was, “Don’t eat of this tree“.

God knew murder would happen. He allowed that in His plan; yet His command to man is that man is not to kill.

The dilemma of many people here is that if God allows evil, surely that makes Him bad. No; it doesn’t. God’s nature is not subject to human opinion and sentiments. Let me put it to you as Scripture puts it: all of creation was subject to corruption by the will of God, and for a greater good. Here:

Romans 8:20-23 ESV

20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope

21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.

23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

God worked out His plan for man such that all creation (man inclusive) would be subject to corruption. Romans 8:20 says He subjected it. There’s no way around that. God did it; yet He didn’t sin. He didn’t whimsically do it, for no reason, or because He is maverick, or has an ego that needed to be satisfied. But He did it all the same. It was His plan.

To suggest otherwise is to suggest that God has not always been sovereign, and that He failed at some point, having been caught unawares, and now is attempting to rectify the mess. But God has always been sovereign. He has always been in control, even when evil seems to be triumphing.

I ask: how would man know what mercy was, if he never messed up and needed mercy? How would man know what submission was? Love? Hope? Faith? These values would mean nothing if God had not acted as He did. But enough of that for now.

I believe I have presented a clear-cut, Biblically valid case of God’s will in its two dimensions.



Why command what is impossible?

Since Adam, man has been unable to choose good without God’s intervention. Another dilemma people face is that they wonder if God is not evil to command people to do things He knows that they are unable to do. No; He is not. He gave Adam a clean slate. Adam planted humanity in corruption. It was Adam’s choice, as our representative. The rest of us are subject to the results of that initial choice. That’s the way God ordained it to be. It was His choice.

Let’s look at the Law: God gave the Law of Moses, knowing fully well that no man could live successfully by the Law. He knew men would break it again and again. So, why did He give the Law?

Romans 5:20 ESV: Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Romans 7:7 ESV: What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

God gave the Law to make clear to man that he is incapable of doing good by himself. It is the same lesson from Adam and Eve’s fall. Though created sinless, they went astray almost immediately.

Now, see what this passage in Romans 8 says:

Romans 8:1-8 ESV

1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.

8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

See it right there? Natural man is in bondage to sin and death. Man cannot get free on his own. Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh. Who lives according to the flesh? All men. Who cannot set their minds on spiritual things? All natural men. All unsaved men. They cannot. They are not able to because their will is in bondage to their nature.

Verse 8: those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Natural man is “in the flesh” and cannot please God. It is an inability. Natural man is in bondage to sin and death. His will is always exercised in that direction. Yes; that will is free, but limited to WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. And all he wants to do are fleshly, carnal, sinful, and anti-God.

Those in the flesh cannot please God. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek him (Hebrews 11:6 ). Those in the flesh (sinners) cannot please God; they cannot have faith apart from God; for without faith it is impossible for them to please God.

Yet, God specifically commands all men to believe. Here is the sum total of Scripture - that man apart from the intervention of God (specifically as made possible through the cross of Christ) CANNOT and WILL NOT go in the right direction.

Let me lay it clear again:

1. those in the flesh cannot please God
2. sinners are those who are in the flesh
3. without faith it is impossible to please God
4. as such, sinners cannot exercise faith
5. faith is a gift imparted by God (I have provided Scripture for this earlier)
6. if God does not enable a man to believe, that man cannot be saved
7. as such, only those that God selects/elects/chooses and enables to be saved are saved

Truth11:

your FREEWILL. God gives salvation to the humble and hardens the wicked as he knows the hearts of men. he crowns the humble with salvation.

is this the new excuse?   there is no free will in the bible can you show me where such a word exist? i noticed that you did not even attempt to take on the passages i posted.

Your speech reveals about you, not about the Bible.

Jesus said that who ever calls another person a fool is going to hell fire, but shortly after he said that he call others fools. even jesus can not live up to his own rules. . . .

They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire , In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings.

who are the celestial beings? have you ever seen any?

One main work of the devil is to accuse the children of God day and night, his other name is ACCUSER OF BROTHERS. Why are you taking that role.

who is the devil have you ever seen him?

ttalks:


Freewill and bondage of the will

Freewill may be described in very simple terms, in the context that we speak, as the liberty to choose between good and evil.

Bondage of the will is a term I use to describe a Biblical fact that the will of a person is in bondage to his nature i.e. he cannot engage his will outside of his nature. An example: because God is holy, He cannot sin. That is clear from Scripture. Another example: because man is sinful, all his thoughts, actions and choices are influenced by his sinfulness. According to the Bible, even his apparently “good” or “righteous” works are all evil before God. That is why Paul was bold to write:

Romans 3:10-12 ESV
10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;

11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.

12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

We may say a man is good, but before God all men are evil and unrighteous, without the imputation of the life of Christ.

All these are the writters intepretation and opinion of what is written in the bible.

A brief outline:

Adam was created indeed with a free will
Adam was originally neither good nor evil
When Adam disobeyed and ate of that tree, he chose the path of evil, and became corrupted by nature. That corruption has been passed to every man born of man and woman ever since. We are all born with freewill, but now that will is limited to the boundaries of fallen humanity. That will only exercises itself towards evil

The two-fold nature of God’s will

All these are the writters intepretation and opinion of what is written in the bible

A study of the Bible shows a two-sided dimension to God’s will. One, there is God’s will in the sense of what He has planned for to happen, chosen to do or has chosen to allow happen.

Two, there is God’s will in terms of what He has commanded men to do. For the purposes of brevity, we may call the former “God’s sovereign will“, and the latter “God’s will of command“.

Reconciling these two dimensions of God’s will has always proved difficult for man. But let’s see an example: God had a plan for man that He knew would involve sin. He knew man would sin, and chose to allow that in His plan. Sin didn’t catch Him by surprise. He knew it would happen and He wove it into the plan. It was His choice.

But still, God commands man not to sin. He knew Adam would exercise his freewill to bring humanity into subjection and bondage to sin. He chose to allow this happen, but His commandment to Adam was, “Don’t eat of this tree“.

again the writers opinion and interpertation of what is written in the bible. another christian will disagree with most of his assertions.

God knew murder would happen. He allowed that in His plan; yet His command to man is that man is not to kill.

the biblegod commanded men to kill so many times in the bible so what is this?

The dilemma of many people here is that if God allows evil, surely that makes Him bad. No; it doesn’t. God’s nature is not subject to human opinion and sentiments. Let me put it to you as Scripture puts it: all of creation was subject to corruption by the will of God, and for a greater good. Here:

Romans 8:20-23 ESV

20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope

21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.

23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

God worked out His plan for man such that all creation (man inclusive) would be subject to corruption. Romans 8:20 says He subjected it. There’s no way around that. God did it; yet He didn’t sin. He didn’t whimsically do it, for no reason, or because He is maverick, or has an ego that needed to be satisfied. But He did it all the same. It was His plan.

To suggest otherwise is to suggest that God has not always been sovereign, and that He failed at some point, having been caught unawares, and now is attempting to rectify the mess. But God has always been sovereign. He has always been in control, even when evil seems to be triumphing.

I ask: how would man know what mercy was, if he never messed up and needed mercy? How would man know what submission was? Love? Hope? Faith? These values would mean nothing if God had not acted as He did. But enough of that for now.

I believe I have presented a clear-cut, Biblically valid case of God’s will in its two dimensions.



Why command what is impossible?

Since Adam, man has been unable to choose good without God’s intervention. Another dilemma people face is that they wonder if God is not evil to command people to do things He knows that they are unable to do. No; He is not. He gave Adam a clean slate. Adam planted humanity in corruption. It was Adam’s choice, as our representative. The rest of us are subject to the results of that initial choice. That’s the way God ordained it to be. It was His choice.

Let’s look at the Law: God gave the Law of Moses, knowing fully well that no man could live successfully by the Law. He knew men would break it again and again. So, why did He give the Law?

Romans 5:20 ESV: Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

Romans 7:7 ESV: What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

God gave the Law to make clear to man that he is incapable of doing good by himself. It is the same lesson from Adam and Eve’s fall. Though created sinless, they went astray almost immediately.

Now, see what this passage in Romans 8 says:

Romans 8:1-8 ESV

1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.

3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,

4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.

7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot.

8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

See it right there? Natural man is in bondage to sin and death. Man cannot get free on his own. Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh. Who lives according to the flesh? All men. Who cannot set their minds on spiritual things? All natural men. All unsaved men. They cannot. They are not able to because their will is in bondage to their nature.

Verse 8: those who are in the flesh cannot please God. Natural man is “in the flesh” and cannot please God. It is an inability. Natural man is in bondage to sin and death. His will is always exercised in that direction. Yes; that will is free, but limited to WHAT HE WANTS TO DO. And all he wants to do are fleshly, carnal, sinful, and anti-God.

Those in the flesh cannot please God. And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who seek him (Hebrews 11:6 ). Those in the flesh (sinners) cannot please God; they cannot have faith apart from God; for without faith it is impossible for them to please God.

Yet, God specifically commands all men to believe. Here is the sum total of Scripture - that man apart from the intervention of God (specifically as made possible through the cross of Christ) CANNOT and WILL NOT go in the right direction.

Let me lay it clear again:

1. those in the flesh cannot please God
2. sinners are those who are in the flesh
3. without faith it is impossible to please God
4. as such, sinners cannot exercise faith
5. faith is a gift imparted by God (I have provided Scripture for this earlier)
6. if God does not enable a man to believe, that man cannot be saved
7. as such, only those that God selects/elects/chooses and enables to be saved are saved

all these are the writers opinion and interpretaion of what is written in the bible, i can provide verses from the same bible that will counter everything that the writer has written.

"Free-will" is not a ticket to heaven.

What exactly do u want to counter,@mazaje?

All u could ever do is to bring up isolated verses to buttress ur point.
But one thing u should know is that every point pushed by the bible is supposed to be understood based on the whole message driven by the bible.
From what I've seen so far,ur points are verses viewed in isolation of the entirety of the bible's message.
You can't understand the bible in that manner.

The article I posted above is definitely somebody's write up based on his understanding.
But if u are honest with urself(and not being by default;unable and unwilling to see/acknowledge the truth),u will see that by proper reasoning,all that the article pushes forward makes complete sense and is in proper line with what the bible says in it's entirety.

Another Christian might disagree with some of what the article pushes forward,but as should be known,what we know is based on the amount of effort we've put into studying.

ttalks:

What exactly do u want to counter,@mazaje?

All u could ever do is to bring up isolated verses to buttress ur point.
But one thing u should know is that every point pushed by the bible is supposed to be understood based on the whole message driven by the bible.
From what I've seen so far,ur points are verses viewed in isolation of the entirety of the bible's message.
You can't understand the bible in that manner.

The article I posted above is definitely somebody's write up based on his understanding.
But if u are honest with urself(and not being by default;unable and unwilling to see/acknowledge the truth),u will see that by proper reasoning,all that the article pushes forward makes complete sense and is in proper line with what the bible says in it's entirety.

Another Christian might disagree with some of what the article pushes forward,but as should be known,what we know is based on the amount of effort we've put into studying.

are you surprised?

davidylan:

are you surprised?

thou hypocrite is that not how the bible is? is that not how you guys quote the bible? you take verses and mix them up to form a narrative but when you read the verse in context it means something else completely, you have done that so many times on nairaland you qoute a particular verse and paste to support your assetions but when you read the verse in context it says something else. . . . .

mazaje:

thou hypocrite is that not how the bible is? is that not how you guys quote the bible? you take verses and mix them up to form a narrative but when you read the verse in context it means something else completely, you have done that so many times on nairaland you qoute a particular verse and paste to support your assetions but when you read the verse in context it says something else. . . . .

The portion which I boldened is a blatant lie in relation to davidylan and some particular Christians on this site.There definitely are some Christians who quote verses out of context but "some" Christians aren't all Christians.

But,even if it were true,must u follow a wrong example to prove ur wrong case?

You quote verses in isolation of the whole message of the bible so ur theories or undertandings are false.

You said the article I posted is just someone else's opinion.Ur own post about freewill is definitely ur own opinion and not a proven fact so save ur energy.

ttalks:

The portion which I boldened is a blatant lie in relation to davidylan and some particular Christians on this site.There definitely are some Christians who quote verses out of context but "some" Christians aren't all Christians.

But,even if it were true,must u follow a wrong example to prove ur wrong case?

You quote verses in isolation of the whole message of the bible so ur theories or undertandings are false.

You said the article I posted is just someone else's opinion.Ur own post about freewill is definitely ur own opinion and not a proven fact so save ur energy.

you have failed to show me how they are my own opinion and you have definately failed to show me how the passages i posted are in isolation from the entirety of the bible's message. if they are truly in isolation i believe you our the famous bible defender on nairaland davidylan would have quickly pointed or showed me. . . .

mazaje:


you have failed to show me how they are my own opinion and you have definately failed to show me how the passages i posted are in isolation from the entirety of the bible's message. if they are truly in isolation i believe you our the famous bible defender on nairaland davidylan would have quickly pointed or showed me. . . .

Those verses in the bible are definitely from the bible,but the whole scenario or argument u're raising is definitely ur opinion.
The article I posted deals properly with the issue of freewill.

Human beings (without God)have freewill,but this freewill is subject to their nature which is designed as part of God's purpose.
Human beings (with God) have freewill,but this freewill is subject to their new nature which is powered by the grace of God.

The fact simply is:

Without God, we cannot be saved.
Without God,our freewill would not have led us to believe in Christ.
It is God that enabled us to be saved;and anybody being saved is saved due to God enabling him/her to be saved.
Anybody saved or being saved by God has been ordained to salvation,so everything is just flowing as God purposed it to be.

In Christ,our will is subject to the will of God.

ttalks:

Those verses in the bible are definitely from the bible,but the whole scenario or argument u're raising is definitely ur opinion.
The article I posted deals properly with the issue of freewill.

Human beings (without God)have freewill,but this freewill is subject to their nature which is designed as part of God's purpose.
Human beings (with God) have freewill,but this freewill is subject to their new nature which is powered by the grace of God.

these are your opinions because nothing like that is written in the bible. . . . .

ttalks:

The fact simply is:

Without God, we cannot be saved.
Without God,our freewill would not have led us to believe in Christ.
It is God that enabled us to be saved;and anybody being saved is saved due to God enabling him/her to be saved.
Anybody saved or being saved by God has been ordained to salvation,so everything is just flowing as God purposed it to be.
[/b]
In Christ,our will is subject to the will of God.

you have made the point yourself, why are you still talking about "free will"?

mazaje:

these are your opinions because nothing like that is written in the bible. . . . .

They are not written in the bible but they are the sum total or conclusion of what the bible is saying about humans and their wills.

mazaje:

you have made the point yourself, why are you still talking about "free will"?

Why then are u disgreeing with the article?
The freewill that I am talking about is that which the bible expresses;and not the popular freewill,
and that is the will expressed by humans but in subjection to their nature;with God or without God.

refer to my second reply on this post /topic of urs:

ttalks link=topic=254595.msg3671283#msg3671283:


I didn't post that link to explain the verses u quoted.
Rather,I posted it to help u understand the true position of the Christian's will in relation to God.
To help u understand that the understanding you probably have as regards freewill as bandied about by most Christians is wrong.

A true Christian is subject to the will of God.
A Christian life is one about denying one's self and being subject to the will of God.

Maybe most of the "Christans" u know are probably not bound by/subject to the will of God, but that does not distort the truth from what it is.

The popular freewill is that which is brought about without the influence of any condition or state,but the freewill as expressed by the bible is that influenced by the factors i stated above.

So it's a kind of will in bondage to particular states.It does not look or sound free but when u look at the whole bible,u have no choice but to call it freewill;but as i've said before;bound within the rule or laws of the states or conditions which the humans are in.

But the funny thing is that this freewill we're debating about is only in relation or within the context of being saved or not being saved.That is ,whether we choose to be saved/believe or harden our hearts to the saving grace.Can we say that this freewill is not free in the choice of meal we will decide to eat or the time we will decide to sleep,or the shirt we will decide to put on?

Mazaje:

who is the devil have you ever seen him?

I have not seen you either, but I trust you exist and I know both of you! Should I believe that you don't exist?

there is no free will in the bible can you show me where such a word exist? i noticed that you did not even attempt to take on the passages i posted.

there is freewill in the Bible. It has been shared with you many times over, now go and search it if you have a free will.
You noticed quite well, now read the Bible well with a sincere heart, all your answers are there.

All these are the writters intepretation and opinion of what is written in the bible.

Mazaje,
all your posts are your interpretations of the Bible. All your posts on this thread and some of what I read elsewhere are full of confusion, ridicule towards others, disrespect, rudeness, doubts, confusion, accusations, arrogance - no positive contribution and no desire to learn.

The more you try to speak against the Bible and Jesus, the more you are exposing yourself. God's word, The Bible, is like a mirror showing all that is written is true. You have acted just like it is written. If you accept the Bible, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

Nobody cares for your interpretations as you dont have peace yourself how can anybody believe your interpretations to give them answers to life questions! Your words dont lead you nowhere, much less a guide to anybody else.

I love Jesus as he died for me and the Bible has brought me peace, joy, wisdom and eternal hope for more than 15 years now. I have found answers to all my questions and problems from God through the Bible and by obeying and trusting in them all these years. I have got answers to all my needs therefore I believe in him all the more. He has always answered to all my needs - spiritual, physical, financial, emotional, sexual, etc. etc. any question or problem under the sun he has a way, God leads me all the time even when I fall - it is so wonderful to be his child. There is not one instance in all these 15 years when I can say God did not fulfill his promises. Eventhough I dont see God physically, I can say without doubt that the God of the Bible is the true and living God and the right choice for every human being and the only choice. He is with me all the time as he promised in John. I can feel him spiritually surround me all the time as be promised in Zacharia. Every word of God is true and trustworthy from Genesis to Revelation. He is worthy to be praised and glorified.

Its the greatest misfortune if an individual uses freewill to reject the God of the Bible and his son Jesus. Even now you can accept him and turn towards him, its not late, 11th hour is welcome.

Blessings.

Jesus said that who ever calls another person a fool is going to hell fire, but shortly after he said that he call others fools. even jesus can not live up to his own rules. . . .

Did Jesus say this? Maybe in your scriptures, certainly not in the Bible! You dont know the Bible so you misquote and thoroughly confused. Let the children of God handle their Father's word and you dont do that as it is a closed book for those who dont accept Christ.

Truth11:


Did Jesus say this? Maybe in your scriptures, certainly not in the Bible! You dont know the Bible so you misquote and thoroughly confused. Let the children of God handle their Father's word and you dont do that as it is a closed book for those who dont accept Christ.

Jesus preaches 'whoever shall say 'you fool!', shall be in danger of hell fire', but shortly after this rages at the Pharisees saying 'you fools! it's there in the bible go read it up. . . .

Mazaje,
This is the only appropriate word for you from the Bible, rest is meaningless:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." .

How can there be free will in the Bible? The free will doctorine was created by the Christians.

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. (Proverbs 16:4 )

God makes all things for himself even the wicked. He makes the wicked for the day of evil accoring to his will the bible says.

@mazaje

You are possessed.

U need help.

Go get it now from the church nearest to you.

Obalende:

@mazaje

You are possessed.

U need help.

Go get it now from the church nearest to you.

yeah i am possessed, NEXT. . . . .

mazaje:

yeah i am possessed, NEXT. . . . .

good confession finally.

NEXT,
- All your posts so far are now invalid!
- chose life (Jesus)

blessings,

choose ye this day blessin or curse

that's a good example of free will in the bible