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mazage may Allah bless you for this thread, let them have a peice of their s**t
the case of free will has been settled once and for All. Allah is most powerful

@ the_seeker
Jesus is Lord. Following allah will lead you to hell. Repent now, believe on Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of your sins and you will be saved and forsake false gods such as allah. Jesus is GOD.

Hey mazaje
Great to see someone stand up for the word of God. Awesome. Keep it up. Don't let anyone tell you any different.

My opinion God hardens whom he wills, I dont believe in free will.

@Wayjulia
It would astound you, wouldn't it, to find out that this 'sticker' for the word of God is actually an atheist. Wonders indeed shall never cease.
In another thread I 'saw' muslims defending the doctrine of original sin against , professing christians !

No freewill ! Enough of the lies !

muslims and christians are two sides of the same ugly face. all that the face requires is a nice hard Pagan slap.

@ Poster

From your comments it is clear that you want to justify your thoughts. As much as you are free to express your opinion, you have equally reveal a lack of biblical understanding. Let me state a few verses in the bible that would immediately debunk your opinion

Malachi 2:2 - " If you do not listen, and if you do not set your heart to honor my name," says the LORD Almighty, "I will send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not set your heart to honor me."

Deuteronomy 28: 1 "If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth."

John 3: 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Revelation 2:16 - "Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth."

Your conclusion on biblical view of freewill is not true. From the creation event till the now God has always allowed man to choose. However all sovereignty belongs to God. God is not living for man, man is living for God.

If a man turns to God through Christ shall he boast of his decision? NO. For without the finished work on the cross there is no forgiveness of sin. So accepting God's plan of salvation finished from the foundation of the world is not what a man should boast about choosing rather to give the glory to God. Hence you find those new testament verses you have quoted.

I hope I can explain more but got to go now. Shalom

dear brother , i really feel your concern , and i appreciate your goin that erudite and deep to garther points for clearer emphasis.
but i hope we can be clear on one issue here, the fact that God has a purpose and makes decisions does not set aside
the individual right of choice , which implication such individual have in mind. Gods interventions in affairs of his creation
is the exclusive jurisdiction, right of his position in authority to act. i believe that in this case choice can not be likened to ability or in any case authority, but a simple act of choosing which part of reality one defends or pursues, we obviously live in a world were meaning has gone baised, and any common fabrication,now seems like the best option.
the decision is yours to make on which part you are faced. but God gave rise to this existence , so no matter what kind of free will one seeks to express, it must fall inline with Gods purpose to stand a chance, or fail to do so due to because of ones misconception. if you are interested in studing the bible, dont make it into a hasty view point just like a quick read magazine or text book. exercise your free will by daring to ask from God, he will make it more understood to you , thanks

[size=13pt]<sup>Dear Believer:

I do not accept the Bible as God’s word because it contains thousand of errancies and contradictions that can not be solved, only rationalized. I refuse to accept Jesus as my personal savior, for his behavior and teachings often expose one who should be escaped and not worshipped . I ask that you read this pamphlet in light of the bible’s teachings; Christians should be “open to reason” (James 3:17 RSV), that we should “reason together” (Isaiah 1:18) and “he who hates correction will die” (Proverbs 15:10) to understand my perspective that the bible has MANY shortcomings.

1. According to your Bible I am to believe that human kind is sinful for Adam and Eve ate the fruit of knowledge. Why are we being punished for the original sin. . . After all, they ate the forbidden fruit, we didn’t. Reason would lead one to say it’s their problem, not ours . Even the bible contradicts itself by claiming in Deuteronomy 24:16, “children shall not be punished for the sins of their fathers.”

2. We are told that the Bible has no errors and is utterly perfect/protected, yet it says the bat is a bird (Leviticus 11:13 & 19), hares chew the cud (Leviticus 11:5-6), and some fowl (Leviticus 11:20-21) and insects (Leviticus 11:22-23) have four legs. nonsense book!

3. Heaven is supposed to be a perfect place. It is of course, the place you strive for and name “salvation”. Yet, it experienced a war (Revelation 12:7). How can there be a war in a perfect place and if it happened before why couldn’t it happen again. . . ( I'm not the author of the Bible ) so , i am bringing out from the same bible Christians claim that it's the perfect World of one so-called GOD ! Why would I want to go to a place in which war can occur? That’s exactly what I’m trying to escape, aren’t you?

4. We are told salvation is obtained by faith alone (John 3:18 & 36) and then the Bible claims that it is repentance that shall save us (2 Peter 3:9) yet Jesus told a man to follow the Commandments-Matthew 19:16-1 8 (saving by works)-if he wanted eternal life. ( What a twisting ! )So which way is it and how do you know your belief is the correct one. . . huh ? i need reasonable answers from Christians and who ever that believe on the Christian GOD or the so- called mind stirring book ( THE BIBLE)

let me jus stop here for now but if u Christians still need me to drop open proves from the Bible u claim perfect I'll still be so glad to do so . . . I'm freakin tired of the so many Christians blabbing about what they don't even have one single knowledge about online most especially on this Nairaland forum i have seen all types . . .</sup> [/size]

What a foolish thread, its jux out of point

..

Anymore freewillers out there?

Pls read bible in context when you talk on issue like this. For biblical truth and facts, pls visit this site its nice site I confirmed it. Very informative! https://josephara..com

Pls read bible in context when you talk on issue like this. For biblical truth and facts, pls visit this site its nice site I confirmed it. Very informative! https://josephara..com

mazaje:
I am tired of the "free will" mantra that christians always use to explain away that that make rubbish of the biblical assertions. There is nothing like "free will" in the bible. "free will" is a word coined out by christian apologist to explain away all the ridiculious assertions of the bible.


Psa 139:16 You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.

Job 14:5 You have decided the length of our lives. You know how many months we will live, and we are not given a minute longer.

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Rom 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac,
Rom 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--
Rom 9:12 she was told, "The older will serve the younger."
Rom 9:13 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (i wonder why some fools here mock allah because of this.)
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"
Rom 9:20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
Rom 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory

Rom 11:2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began
2Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.

so there you have it. there is absolute nothing like free will in the bible, even jesus said that he speaks in parables because he doesn't want people to understand and ask for forgivness, so enough of the "human beings have free will" because there is no such thing in the bible, besides the bible clearly says that the biblegod plans and chooses everything before hand so enough of all the lies and using the free will mantra to explain away the inconsistencies of your arguments and postulations. there is no such thing as free will in the bible