₦airaland Forum

Abuklaw you have made us understand that good leaders would stand their ground and fight their godfathers. I ask, don't you think "good leaders" would be distracted when fighting their godfathers at the detriment of the people's liberation. my conclusion, when godfathers bring up leaders, as is the case in Nigeria, they would control the leaders and when leaders resist, they would distract the leaders. all to the disadvantage of the country. so godfatherism is the problem

Catalyst4real:
Good question, one way to eliminate the corruption is the promotion of transparency. You realise why no one can outrightly say the 2015 Election was an epitaph of perpetration, godfatherism and vandalism? Because it was very open and transparent.
Godfatherism will always take the blame when the electoral practices are done in close doors.

can you explain the role of Tinubu in the 2015 election? that's gofatherism my friend

Abuklaw:
Godfatherism is indeed a potent tool of development when both godfathers and godsons are responsible to the masses-when they have the interest of the populace at heart.

The bold part, godfatherism practised by our founding fathers laid emphasis on political morality, accountability and responsibility to the citizens not them, godfathers.

"when godfathers and godson are responsible" what if they are not? we can't deny that any godson who don't play according to the dictates of the godfather is likely to be sabotaged. take for example chimaroke nnamani's case

Mr abuklaw, you made understand that inefficient leaders are the problems not godfathers, but you have neglected the political economy involved in the emergence of leaders in Nigeria. the huge money involved in the process. only those with god fathers are likely to win, and these are corrupt. therefore they reproduce corruption and inefficiency.

catalyst4real, you said corruption and selfishness is what we need to eliminate not godfatherism how can we eliminate that when the godfathers are corrupt and selfish. you are painting an ideal picture not the reality.

A good evening to the able moderators and organizers, my fellow debaters and all Nairalanders, I am NOSKYBOY, representing the great students of university of Jos.
Many would agree that the major problem facing Nigeria from its inception till this date is poor leadership at almost every level of government, a lot of factors have been pointed to as the reason for the leadership problems of Nigeria, but only few have come to the realization that the major problem facing quality leadership in Nigeria is the disease called “godfatherism” and once it is eliminated Nigerians can be assured that a generation of great leaders would emerge. Before I go further to prove why godfatheriam must be eliminated in Nigeria, if she must develop, I would first of all create a background understanding of the issues at hand pertaining to this discussion.
The concept “god father” mean different things to different people, but the most popular origin of the concept can be traced to a practice by the Catholic church, where a person not the biological father of a child would agree to be a mentor to the child known as the godson, guiding him in the right path and supporting him in achieving his goals. Godfather, as a concept has gained ground in politics around the world and it is usually used to mean an individual who supports the political ambition of another person, this support may come in many forms but mostly it comes in the form of finance and the use of influence and “connection”. The godfathers usually expects some form of payback when success is achieved. In Nigerian politics, godfatherism is a very common practice majority of the politicians in Nigeria have a godfather of some sort, some known and others not known. This statement is true and various cases exits to prove it such as the case of former governor chimaroke Nnamani and Jim Nwobodo, senator Jonah Jang and late sen GNS Pwajor, Ngige and Chris Uba, also, it can’t be denied that Tinubu contributed greatly to the emergence of Buhari as president, such cases proves the existence of godfatherism in Nigeria.
The major question however is what good do godfatherism hold for Nigeria, with regards to good leadership and development? The answer with seek is simple, godfatherism has done more harm than good to leadership in Nigeria, and the reasons being;
Godfatherism in Nigeria is a medium for investment rather mentorship. In the real sense, godfathers are meant to serve as mentors, advice and guide their godsons in the right way to lead, but the case in Nigeria is different, the idea and orientation behind godfatherism is totally different. Godfathers rather expect to be paid back for their support once success is achieved; therefore most rich and influential Nigerians see a less influential, less wealthy and willing leadership aspirant, as a business investment and profit making opportunity. Therefore, when a less wealthy individual is financially supported to win an election, he pays back with the state funds; therefore the effect on the country is never good. The refusal of the godson to obey the godfather is also another source of problem for the country, simply because the leaders loses focus and the godfather is likely to embark on a mission to sabotage the godson leading to backward development of Nigeria, the case of the former Governor Chimaroke Nnamani of Enugu, who had a running battle with his godfather, Senator Jim Nwobo, for over two years, infact Nnamani himself described a godfather as “…an impervious guardian figure who provided the lifeline and direction to the godson, perceived to live a life of total submission, subservience and protection of the oracular personality located in the large, material frame of opulence, affluence and decisiveness, that is, if not ruthless... strictly, the godfather is simply a self-seeking individual out there to use the government for his own purposes.
Another reason is that, leaders loss their autonomy and personal initiative to lead and control resources of the state; this is a negative attribute of godfatherism in Nigeria because in most cases the godfathers like to dictate how the godson would lead, who would be appointed and even how public funds would be spent, therefore even if the leaders has all the criteria of a good leader, he/she can’t use them, such cases can be seen in Nigeria especially when it comes to appointment, the godfather decides who would be appointed, the case of president Buhari and the ministerial appointment saga is a clear indication of this fact, the appointment of Amaechi, Fashola and the likes is simply a compensation for their support and also the invisible hand of Tinubu was noticed through the whole process.
Godfatherism has made it almost impossible for qualified and credible individuals without “connection” to emerge as leaders, rather individuals who are loyal and easily manipulated emerge as leaders therefore giving the godfather control and serving as a mare figure head. The concept of “connection” is not new to Nigerians, and those who are likely to be connected to rich godfathers are members of the upper class, therefore the chances of poor lower class occupant with great leadership skills who knows what the majority of poor Nigerians really need is likely never going to emerge as a leader.
To conclude, I would say that, the trend in Nigeria is that, most godfathers are usually past leaders and individuals who have served the country in various capacities and during their time they weren’t good leaders, these people are expected to groom their godsons to be like them therefore what we get at the end is duplication of incompetence in the name of godfatherism. If Nigeria must develop, god leaders must emerge and for good leaders to emerge the foundational problem of godfatherism must be eliminated, and only then would Nigeria get credible leaders, until then we would continue running in a circle of underdevelopment due to poor leadership.

References
Chimaroke Nnamani, ‘The godfather phenomenon in democratic Nigeria: Silicon
or real?’, The Source, 2 June, 2003 pp. 5-6.
Chris Ngige, ‘My problem with Uba’, Tell, 28 July, 2003, p. 42.
http://nationalmirroronline.net/new/danjuma-tinubu-to-determine-buharis-ministers/

‘The Godfa thers list’, Newsweek, December 2003-February 2004, p.56.

present

Fynestboi:
Jarus

Adeaks


Joseph1832



► Noskyboy
► ObiZeal


►Catalyst4real
► Abuklaw




New date: 12 March
Time 6pm..



Any questions?

if my co debaters are OK with the new date. then am OK with it

present

is that all the results? chai

i want to say once again, thank you to the organisers who have given us a platform to flex our intellectual muscle. I want to also comment our oponents from yabatech, it has been great debating with you guys and thanks to all nairalanders for your time. To close, i would simply say that removing fuel subsidy because there is a fall in oil price is not what Nigeria needs at the moment, what the country needs at this time, is for the government led by Buhari to focus on sanitizing the oil sector, there by eliminating the fraud elements, then block all economic leakages in our economy, cutting down extravagant spendings on allowances and trips, diversify the economy and force state governments to look inwards in order to generate revenue for itdelf rather than sitting idle waiting for federal allocations, thereby giving the federal government more money to spend or reviving refineries, education, health and orther critical sectors, rather than pushing the suffering to the people. The problem we have as a country is not lack of money but lack of a government with political will who wont sacrifice for the people but expect the people to sacrifice again and again for the government. With a token of 18500naira, We pay our fees, we secure ourselves, we provide power for ourselves, we put food on our table and yet the only thing the government do for us, they have taken away. Therefore fuel subsidy removal CANNOT be justified under such conditions.THANKYOU!

betacitizen:
I hope you understand this is a democratic settings and the process of judicial decision from one adjournment to another cannot be said to be a day job.
Nobody can be pronounced guilty except when pronounced so by the law court. So, your questions will be answered soon.

but sir, you have not answered me, why has the presidency not revealed the names and the amount of money they retrieved from thosed wwho sopposedly 'returned' stollen money. Are you trying to say that the constitution permits stealing as long as it would be returned in the future?. This administration is not being true to us with regards to it anti corruption war,

Weedcrusher:
I must commend both parties for driving their points home.

My question for the pro-subsidy removal team is, what do you think will be the reaction of the populace if the subsidy is removed knowing that when the last government did so, we all know it resulted in the Occupy Nigeria facedown?

My question for the anti-subsidy removal team is, do you not think now is the appropriate time to remove the subsidy that gulp down a substantial amount of the government revenue since the global oil price is record low and our refineries have started working?

I will appreciate factual responses.

thank you sir. I think removing subsidy because of oil price fall is just and escapist and opportunist move by the government, will subsidy removal automatically block leakages in the economy? will it reduce extravagant spending on allowances? will it make states to be self sufficient? no. there are other means to raise money. since oil price is low Nigerians are supposed enjoy low fuel price, (50naira pl). I tell you the government is just postponing the re - occupy Nigeria protest.

betacitizen:
I hope you noted the word "but" in my statement? The whole idea behind SURE-P was a good intention which would have been of immense benefit to Nigerians, but corruption was the problem then. And that corruption is seriously being tackled by the present administration which means we have hope as a nation.

when you say corruption is being tackled, I ask, how much have we recovered from corrupt people, we don't know. some people have returned stollen money as revealed by Buhari, who are they and how much, we don't know. is that not corruption in it self? shielding some corrupt people and punishing some. so who should me be scared of, corrupt people or a partial corruption fighter?

menzo4u:
Please try to comprehend my statement. I said the money was enough to fund two budgets in some sectors of the economy, not the total budget. What you mentioned above is the total budget, not for some (two) sectors.

On your question on palliative measure, is it not money that will be used to set those palliative measures? Now, the money is about to be generated by removing subsidy, but you said "NO". Again: the government has also introduced the Treasury Single Account policy to block some leakages in order to put up the palliative measures: so subsidy is one of the leakages.

When you said corruption fight is still low, I laughed because, that thing called "corruption" is not kid's play so it requires slow but steady action.

don't you think that rather than removing fuel subsidy, state government should be made to look in wards and generate revenue rather than wait for federal allocations. removal of fuel subsidy is not blocking any leakage, rather its an anti welfare move

betacitizen

you mentioned that the last administration started a good job by reinvesting the fuel subsidy using the sureP programme. its either you are not in Nigeria, or you watched too much television during the last administration. we in Jos, never saw a single sureP bus neither did we feel the direct effect of Sure P. it was a scam programme. and that confirmed the fears Nigerians had about removing subsidy.

menzo4u:
According to you @noskyboy

"Economically; the removal of fuel subsidy in Nigeria cannot be justified, because such decision would have an adverse multiplier effect on the economy on a long run, it will lead to the increase in prices of everything, from transportation to cost of running businesses especially small businesses which would increase prices of food and other services and goods."

One can directly say the above statement of yours is mere propaganda and not in line with the current in the oil world. It is well known that there is global fall in the price of oil, so how can a the removal of fuel subsidy bring those adversities you mentioned above?

Secondly, for your information Sir, your statement has already been tackled in my submission, all we need as a nation is "sacrifice". Since the price of oil is still low globally, don't you think that by reinvesting money generated from subsidy removal, we can also bring our refinery back to life and start producing oil locally which will even translate into more benefits for us as a nation? Where is the austerity Sir?

first of all, because the oil price has fallen doesn't mean it would remain that way for ever, my analysis is based on the long run, the CEO of BP predicted a rise in oil price in the second half of this year, so how much can the government save within this short period to fix all that has been destroyed due to mismanagement?. as I also said, there is no measure put in place to enable soft landing when prises go up. I assure you, once prices go up again, even you would beg that fuel subsidy be replaced.

menzo4u
the last adminstration spent about 4 trillion naira on budget while this adminstration is spending about 6 trillion. so I don't understand your logic when you say money spent on fuel subsidy in 2015 (1 trillion ) is more than 2 budgets.
secondly, how long can we bear the sacrifice with no palliative measures in place, no free transport, no free food and a minimum wage of 18500. are Nigerians magicians? .
thirdly, the corruption fight is still slow and highly partial, so how long are we going to wait?

Good evening noble organizers and moderators of this debate, respected judges, co-debaters and all nairalanders. I am noskyboy, representing the University of JOS. Before delving into defending our position on this topic, I would like to create a background understanding on the key concepts and issues involved.
Subsidy in general terms is a form of financial aid or support provided mostly by the government to an economic sector, institution, business or individual. Therefore it is a measure adopted by certain governments to keep the price consumers pay for certain good or service below market levels; in other cases it may be directed towards producers to reduce cost of production.
Nigeria is one of the largest producers and exporters of crude oil, but she imports majority of the refined petroleum products consumed by Nigerians, mainly because of her inability to refine her own crude oil due to breakdown of its refineries due to lack of maintenance and mismanagement. From the 1980s to late 2015 premium motor spirit (PMS) or fuel was subsidized by the government in order to stabilize and reduce the price burden of the product on Nigerians, as such the government paid importers of petroleum products part of the money spent on importing the product, this is in order to aid even the poorest of Nigerians access fuel, The current administration has announced the removal of fuel subsidy, thereby leaving Nigerians to bear all the burden of purchasing this essential product. The question therefore remains can the removal of fuel subsidy in Nigeria be justified?
My answer is NO. In order to back my position, I would start by discrediting the reasons the government has provided for this act. In 2012 the administration of Goodluck Jonathan attempted a total removal of fuel subsidy claiming that a “cabal” is benefiting from fuel subsidy rather than Nigerians and also fuel subsidy is too expensive for the government, therefore fuel subsidy should be removed. The current administration is also singing same tune as their reason for removal of fuel subsidy, according to Kachikwu the minister of state for petroleum “we can’t even understand where those subsidies were going to. There are a lot of fraud elements in it so we need to cut it off” he also said that the earnings of the government have dropped due to fall in oil price, he proposed a price modulation scheme which would keep fuel prices below the current #85 per liter, despite removal of subsidy.
The above reasons provided, can in no way justify removal of fuel subsidy in Nigeria, because firstly; it is the duty of the government to make sure all ‘fraud elements’ are removed and the gains of the subsidy reach Nigerians, does it mean that a group of individuals are bigger than the government?, should Nigerians be left at the mercy of exploitative capitalists?.
Secondly; Nigeria is rich enough to subsidize fuel and still improve critical infrastructure and fund other developmental projects, but this is not the case mainly because of mismanagement, too much economic loop holes, policies that encourage wastage, extravagant spending on salaries and allowances of executives and legislators, embezzlement of public funds due to corruption; according to transparency international (2015), Nigeria has lost over $400 billion to corruption. Also states don’t look inwards to focus on agriculture and other natural resources and they don’t generate internal revenue, but rely on federal government. If these things are fixed, there won’t be need to remove subsidy.
Thirdly; the price of an important commodity like PMS should never be left to be determined by market forces (demand and supply) in a developing economy like that of Nigeria, because only the close friends of the government and the rich can afford licenses to run refineries or import fuel, therefore there won’t be competition and poor Nigerians would be placed in the hands of a few capitalists who are profit hungry. The price modulation scheme is just an opportunist and escapist solution, because it coincides with a period of global oil price fall, therefore Nigerians won’t feel the pinch now, but when prices go up again, Nigerians would be paying high, therefore such scheme is not sustainable on the long run.
Furthermore, Fuel subsidy removal in Nigeria cannot be economically, sociologically and even politically justified;
Economically; the removal of fuel subsidy in Nigeria cannot be justified, because such decision would have an adverse multiplier effect on the economy on a long run, it will lead to the increase in prices of everything, from transportation to cost of running businesses especially small businesses which would increase prices of food and other services and goods.
Sociologically; the structure of Nigeria is one characterized by wide spread poverty, social inequality and corruption in government, the question is, how sure are we that the government would reinvest the subsidy for the development of Nigeria? Past records have pointed otherwise. Therefore removing the only sure social service, Nigerians get from government is an anti-social welfare move; because education, security, clean water, stable power supply and food are things the government doesn’t provide for Nigerians, as such the rich and political class rather gets more to steal from and the poor are left un-catered for.
Politically; Nigeria is a democratic state, this means the people are the center of the government, and their will should be done. Removal and attempt to remove fuel subsidy has been met with disapproval and street protests in the past. Some Nigerians have recently used social media to register their dismay, also the NLC recently condemned such move, therefore it is politically un-justifiable to remove fuel subsidy in Nigeria amidst such disapproval.
In conclusion, Nigerians may not be feeling the full adverse effects of the fuel subsidy removal at the moment, due to global fall in oil price but when the prices eventually go up again Nigerians would be left to suffer with no visible palliative measures in place to ensure soft landing.
Word count: 990
References
Akinwale Y et al. 2012. Political economy of phasing out fuel subsidy in Nigeria. Scientific and academic publishing retrieved from http://article.sapub.org/10.5923.j.ep.20130304.01.html
http://scannewsnigeria.com/featured-post/nigeria-has-lost-over-400billion-oil-revenue-since-independence-says-ezekwesili/
Moyo N and Songwe V. 2012. Removal of fuel subsidy in Nigeria an economic necessity and a political dilemma. Retrieved from http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2012/01/10-fuel-subsidies-nigeria-songwe
Nigeria: fuel subsidy: A desktop study by the center for public policy alternatives. Retrieved from https://toluogunlesi.files./2012/01/fuel-subsidy-desktop-study-report-copy1.pdf
Premium times report, December 26, 2015 - Nigeria scraps fuel subsidy, cuts petrol price to N85 per litre. Retrieved from http://www.premiumtimesng.com/business/195743-nigeria-scraps-fuel-subsidy-cuts-petrol-price-to-n85-per-litre.html
Nigeria: benefits and risks of fuel price modulation. Retrieved from http://allafrica.com/stories/201601042261.html

Fynestboi:
Thank you for correcting that....

can unijos post now?

also reping for UNIJOS

Tosdam:
Nairalanders, abeg, what's the English name of moimoi?

this question is a clear sign that you and a lot of Nigerians, are still under cultural imperialism from the West. must every thing have an English or foreign name? even things that we developed indeginously, must we westernize every thing. moi moi is moi moi. thats the name we gave it, because we made it. so they should call it by our name. ask ur self this, is pizza an English word. why are the Westerners not asking what the English name of pizza is. pls this thread should be closed. and should never have made front page.

Fynestboi:
Hi all, happy Sunday to you all, the date as deliberated by TEAMNISD (23rd January - 14th February) Saturdays and Sundays... 7pm(Tentatively)

[size=15pt]So you can drop your comments as you see this.. [/size]


Thanks.

I can't see UniJos reps on that list secondly it wasnt indicated who is opposing or proposing. Are we to just argue from any perspective that suits us and lastly. The timing is great

fynestboi, luxanne and all. in as much as the new result favours unijos which I rep, I think 15 marks reduction is very harsh considering the work the debaters may have put into the work. I am a debater and if am treated with such harshness, I may be discouraged. pls. be more considerate. thanks for taking time to address the issue.

Dongraspo:
Sir,Just lifting a mere 11 examples is 90% of my work,its funny tho the way some people think...please,attack my points and not my person because like i said nobody here knows me_you know,i feel your pain,its normal i have been there before-people attack the best players even Jesus,not everyone loves him...Thank you for your personal opinion,i appreciate and hope we meet again

chairman see, the copy and pasted part of your work accounts for 1,663 words which is even way more than the stipulated word count, while the one written by you, of which we are not even sure of, is just 672. explain that.

Tourshaw:
Oga, with due respect, point of corrections, you were not accused of mindless lifting, rather you mindlessly lifted about 90% of your essay. actually I don't know what you are you mean by saying, u just researched the 11 points. You lifted an essay and claiming your brain was the one at work. If what you lifted were to be deducted from your own part, what do you think you have left? The size of your brain? I don't know what prompted you to be claiming you are a deserved winner and thinking you can escape the minor plagiarism you did. In fact, sorry to say, you are part of corruption crippling our country

hehehe. well said

KingTom:
I admit I made a mistake as far the word count is concerned but believe me. I gave him that score not based on the headlines he posted but on the overall essay. In fact if you take out the alledged copy and paste headlines you would still get a very respectable essay. Looking at the way I scored them you could see that almost everyone got "unbelievably high scores" with the exception of a particular candidate whose scored a low grade because I didn't particularly enjoy his essay, it was lumped together and looked like something hurriedly constructed. Once again I sympathize with the aggrieved but as it stands, what I have written I have written, that can only be changed by disqualification which isn't exactly an option since he cited the source.

more than 80% of that essay was coped and pasted, and it was filled with mere examples of corrupt cases, no proper analysis as to why leaders should be blamed for corruption. my take tho. anyhow sha, na una show. make una run am as una want. thanks for your time.

KingTom:
I admit I made a mistake as far the word count is concerned but believe me. I gave him that score not based on the headlines he posted but on the overall essay. In fact if you take out the alledged copy and paste headlines you would still get a very respectable essay. Looking at the way I scored them you could see that almost everyone got "unbelievably high scores" with the exception of a particular candidate whose scored a low grade because I didn't particularly enjoy his essay, it was lumped together and looked like something hurriedly constructed. Once again I sympathize with the aggrieved but as it stands, what I have written I have written, that can only be changed by disqualification which isn't exactly an option since he cited the source.

more than 80% of that essay was coped and pasted, and it was filled with mere examples of corrupt cases, no proper analyses as to why leaders should be blamed for corruption. my take tho. anyhow sha, na una show. make una run am as una want. thanks for your time.

i think the judges (1 and 3) should please carefully read the essays again, pay attention to important details and give proper scores. and i think Dongraspo's essay can be liken to a lazy blogger who just copy and past, and funny enough the judges 1 and 3 gave him unbelievable high scores. we should discourage copy and paste and reward hard work and creativity.

hmmmm, na wa o. got reservations about the result and style of judgment plus, attention was not paid to certain important things. but its all good. thanks for the opportunity.

i have moved my essay to the space i booked above. thanks.

Fynestboi:
Participants you have just one hour to unveil your essay. Your time starts now.






Thanks..

are we to modify the space we booked or just post our essays below?