Weebee,
Note and consider the following points;
1. All male creatures of God are polygamous by nature.Think of the animals-from Lizards to Lions.The arrangement is one male, sexually overseeing several females in a location called "territory".Any male intruder is fought to a standstill.One must leave for the other.Unfortunately,the same "gene" runs in Homo Sapiens.However,due to religious and social influences,man has managed to be "civilized" about his sexual conduct.But that urge to try other females lurks somewhere waiting for the opportunity to manifest.This is the truth.A married man who has plenty of cash will have several such opportunities presenting.Unfortunatley, a man's willpower is insufficient to stop him from adultery when trully challenged.The only guarantee against adultery is the power of the Holy Spirit which is given only to believers.Adultery can only be cured supernaturally and never naturally.A man who is not born again and is not commiting adultery-its either he has not been challenged enough or he does not have the requisite wherewithal.period.

2. Unfortunately also,the incidence of adultery in women has shot up recently.Its inexplicable,but its happening.It's much more common than most people think.Its just that women are much more discrete about their affairs and they tend to stick to one extramarital partner for long.

3. Finally I want to submit that even marriage is not a cure for promiscuity.If that is one's reason for getting married,he or she will be sorely disappointed.I have seen men who are thoroughly satisfied sexually by their spouses and yet they commit adultery,and vice versa.

Fufu King,
Please b4 I sign out,could u teach me step by step,how to cut portions of other people's contribution and paste them in a boxed form in your own discussion.Like u did for ThiefOf Hearts.

I will surely appreciate this favour.

Many thanks

Fufu King,
I think you may wish to continue this discussion on this thread.As for me I am outa here!! When I introduced this thread,I was honestly expecting to get some intelligent argument against female circumcision,but I am afraid I have been disappointed.Until I see somebody contribute something really logical and intelligent against female circumcision I am not likely to join in again.

As for Seun.In insulting me he has shown how pathetic he is.His emotional outburst(same also as Thiefofhearts)has shown his level of immaturity.

Ojobayo,
I have seen the pictures.

Can you tell me what is making you cry about those genitals? Kindly explain to us in this forum,what has been done to those females.If possible,picture by picture.I want to be sure that you know what you are talking about.I want to be sure that you are not one of those "sensationalists" who have joined the band wagon without having a clue about what it is all about.That you are not one of those who readily site female circumcision as another atrocity and act of oppression by the male gender against the female gender.Please do it clearly and precisely.Many thanks in anticipation.

dr chic,
What about the facts pointing out the MALE genital cutting as harmful? Are they not clear enough for you to advocate its ban? Logic demands that since both practices can be harmful,the campaign should be all encompassing and not preferential.That's the point,my dear.Its shear hypocrisy to campaign against one and leave the other.

Secondly,what do you think is the incidence of complications in FGC in Nigeria? I tell you it is less than one in a hundred.That is,for every complicated case,there would have been 99 others done complication free.

dr chic,
I am glad u have finally admitted the inevitable-that all campaigns against female circumcision are based on emotions,sentiments and sensation.That's ok and that's the female thing.Everybody knows that women,except with a few exceptions,HONESTLY base their arguments on sentiments.That's the way God created them and all men have to accept that.

No need getting personal.I mean talking about my family.I already have one but I am not going to comment on our private matters.But the truth is that no campaign on any issue will ever get the legislative nod except it is based on "clear,precise and logical reasons" I am sorry,that's the way it goes(The law is never based on sentiments).Until that happens I am afraid we just have to stick to the status quo.

And please dont argue any further if you dont have a any other choice but to get "insultive".It is not a war.We are just discussing issues to the best of our abilities and knowledge.

Nice chatting with u and do have a nice day.

Ladies and Gentlemen,
Just as I was exiting this blog,I stumbled into this input on a topic on Male circumcision here on the Nairaland forum.Perhaps it might interest some of us.Enjoy it:

"I don't agree with it personally. If adults want to, fine, but I don't think it's right to do it to babies. Of course, if it is your religion or culture to do it, then I won't tell you what to do. but just be aware that you are only doing it for religious or cultural reasons, no other.

I know it is the standard practise in Nigeria but also be aware that it is not standard practise in most of the world at all. Very few men overall are circumcised. Only 20% in the world. do you think that the other 80% are all unclean or diseased? Of course not. It is incredibly rare in the UK and as others have said, it is seen as a Jewish and Muslim habit, Christians don't do it here. In my whole life I've only known one British man who was circumcised and most people will never meet anyone who is. And I think circumcised joysticks look ugly compared to normal ones. See? It's just a case of what you are used to looking right.

You should be aware that the 'health' claims are bogus - all the major medical authorities in the world say that there are no health benefits. Even the American medical association says so and it is still very common practise in the US for cultural reasons.

Cleanliness. A dirty person is dirty all over. A clean person is clean all over. We don't chop off our ears just because some dirty people don't wash behind them properly.

Danger - this is a surgical operation you are performing on a very young baby. Even in the west with modern medical facilities babies have died because of circumcisions - they can get infected badly. Also, sometimes the operation goes wrong and the penis is left deformed. These complications are very rare, yes that's true, but they do happen and parents should be aware that they are taking a risk with their babies health and even life. Any operation can have complications. In a few very rare cases the little boy has completely lost his penis.
See here for photos of deformities caused by circumcisions - http://www.circumstitions.com/Restric/Botched3sc.html.

the attached photo shows the result of gangrene developed from circumcision

Pain - you inflict great pain on the baby. Did you know that the foreskin is 100% joined/stuck to the penis tip until a boy is about 5 years old - in exactly the same way that a fingernail is stuck to the skin underneath it. It doesn't move or retract at all. When they circumcise they have to pull it off - just like pulling a fingernail off the skin below it - and the baby is left with raw skin afterwards. Now imagine how painful that is. Now imagine that you have a raw wound and get pee and poop on it as well that people keep cleaning off.

Function - it does have a negative effect on the sexual function. I know you don't want to hear that and you'll all deny it because who wants to believe that about himself but really, unless you've had sex with both circumcised and uncircumcised men, how would you know?

For a start - The skin is much thicker and less sensitive on the tip of the circumcised penis once you get to middle age and it has been exposed for years. This is a process called keritinisation. The tip is just protecting itself with thicker skin after you've removed its natural protection. Want to know how different it is? The skin here is very similar to your lip. Tough the outside of your lip - the part that is exposed to everything. Dry and although it is fairly sensitive it isn't extremely sensitive. Now touch your lip right inside your mouth. Moist and very highly sensitive. Yet it is the same lip and exactly the same skin. The outer part becomes dry, thicker and less sensitive because it is permanently exposed. The same thing happens to the man's penis. An uncircumcised man's penis skin is moist, soft and far more sensitive than that of a circumcised mans. Honestly. why would I lie to you?

Secondly, the forskin performs a useful function by reducing friction and allowing much free-er movement.

Thirdly, it is a large area of skin full of nerve endings. The nerve endings are both inside and outside the foreskin and it is very sensitive. One estimate is that the penis loses one third of all its nerve endings when you circumcise. Poor men!


Fourthly - you also lose the frenulum. this is a tiny piece of skin that runs between underneath your penis and the foreskin. It may be tiny but wow it packs a punch. One every man I've ever known this is the most sensitive area of their penis. Literally 'fireworks' sensitive.

So if you are a parent, make your choice, but do it with all the facts. Don't do it just because you think everyone else does it, because worldwide, you are strange if you DO circumcise your children. Even if it is common within your culture then think about it properly before going ahead."

Ladies and gentlemen,
I thank u all for all your inputs.Having read all your wonderful and most respected inputs,I can safely draw the following conclusions:

1. There is no scriptural basis for male or female circumcision today.Fufu king has proven that from the scriptural references he quoted.In other words,circumcision or no circumcision is not what determines who goes to heaven.Therefore,circumcision per se,is no sin b4 God,whether it is male or female.

2. Male circumcision is fraught with as much complications as female circumcision.So siting the complications of female circumcision as a reason to stop it is not tenable.If complications is the issue,then like Fufu king suggested,the campaigners should campaign against both male and female circumcision.

3. There are many more uncircumcized males in the world than the circumcized.So male circumcision is the exception rather than the rule.It also suggests that those who practice it,do so for cultural reasons and the pious ones will want to tow the line of Old testament instructions by doing it on the 8th day of life.These are all ok if it satisfies there cultural and religious egos.

4. Claiming that female circumcision is not beneficial as a reason to stop it is also a matter of individual opinion.Those who practice it claim very strongly,that it has checked the infidelity in their societies.Who are we to to deny it? If it works for them,so be it.

5. Cultural practices are optional.One reserves the right to refuse any item of practice in his culture and nothing will happen,especially if the person is independent financially and otherwise.I remember a few years ago when we went to bury my father.The villagers had certain expectations of my poor mother,but my brothers and I put our feet down and refused them.She did not shave her hair,she slept when she wished and where she wanted.We refused her being disturbed when she wanted to rest.There was nothing anybody could do about it because they knew we depended on them for nothing.We just wanted the feel of home and family for my dad's burial,but on our own terms.Had they proved difficult,we would have done well with our guests and friends who came from outside town!But fortunately they cooperated.So what am I saying? If you dont like female circumcision,dont perform it on ur daughters.For those who believe its beneficial,leave them alone.Otherwise u will be poke nosing in other people's biz.

5. I also noticed that the majority of opponents of female circumcision are just being sentimental and sensational,because it has to do with the female privates.Everybody seems interested and naturally,curious.There is a lot of unsupported name calling such as "barbaric", "evil", "wicked" etc.Yet no clear arguements in favour of female circumcision over male cicumcision.Is that not hypocrisy? I think it is.These people claim they love the female folk so much and want to "defend" them,but I know its mostly gossip and insincerety.

6. Finally,I want to thank everybody again.Lets move on to something else.I sign out.

dr chic,
1. The true medical indications for male circumcision are Recurrent Balanitis and Paraphimosis.I have not heard of prophylactic circumcision in a bid to prevent transmission of HIV,Herpes Simplex type 2 or to prevent Cervical cancer.I know a bit about SMEAGMA.I know also that uncircumcized males are taught how to take care of their prepuce so as to avoid retention of smeagma.Furthermore,the relationship bw smeagma(thru Herpes Simplex type 2 transmission)and Ca Cx is only associative and not causative.As u know,the aetiology of cancers in general,is uncertain.

2.You claim there is absolutely no benefit to female circumcision,but the practitioners claim it checks the sexual excesses of MARRIED WOMEN(Its interesting to note that they appear little concerned abt the single ladies,but that is an issue for discussion on another date).You claim the practice is wrong,they claim it is ok.Now,u notice that what is right with one community maybe an abomination with another.For instance,certain communities in Nigeria encourage their daughters to have children out of wedlock,once they get to a certain age unmarried,but others will condemn it totally.So,what is right or wrong,as far as traditions are concerned is relative.

3. I beg to disagree with your types 2-4 female circumcision.If the goal of circumcision is to reduce promiscuity,then there should be no need to touch the labia.If the labia is mutilated its logical to assume this is inadvertent consequent upon quackery.The practitioners of female circumcision definitely will not want their females not to enjoy sex at all,or to have dysmenorrhoea, painful intercourse,or complicated labours.Certainly not.I think it is unfair to assume so or to attribute it to male chauvinism.It might interest u to know that the women in these societies are the champions of the course!!And they dutifully carry out the circumcision themselves.

4. Killing of twins was a practice that died a natural death.Similarly,the traditional Ibadan tribal marks(The Sergent Major type-with due apologies to all concerned),is fast disappearing from our streets.These practices have died and are dying from unpopularity and not from legislative bans.This is the issue here.Also talking about consent from the infant,babies are not consulted b4 their faces are mutilated in the name of tribal marks,or as somebody pointed out,b4 their ears are mutilated in the name of ear piercing.Yet nobody is crying out.Why is it different in the case of female circumcision?

5. As I said b4,many females still enjoy sex even when circumcized.The issue of female sexuality is much more complex than the genitals will suggest.The woman's most important "sexual organ" is the mind and not the clitoris.Once a woman's mind is in it,she will enjoy sex to the fullest.I can confirm that.

6. If you ask me,female circumcision has not succeeded in curbing infidelity in married women.But the societies that practice this act need to be allowed to face this reality and then begin to have a re-think.For instance,I am told that,until recently female infant circumcision was the norm in Igboland.But now its virtually unpractised.Why? Certainly not because of the complications,but they have seen that that alone will not make a difference in a woman's conduct.

7.In conclusion,do I want to see an end to the practice? Frankly my answer is that I am indifferent.However I am resolute in condemning any attempt to kill it by legislation.Opponents should work by persuasion and education to achieve their goals.

I thank all of you who have responded to this thread on female circumcision.Indeed I have been educated by some well thought out and researched responders.Others have been largely sentimental,and yet others,exposing a lot of ignorance.

The truth is that most of you have completely missed the point I am trying to make in this thread.I should like you to read my thread again,slowly and thoroughly,taking care to assimilate the points and issues raised.For the purpose of clarity,let me itemize my arguement below:

1. While it is true that males who have Recurrent balanitis or Paraphimosis are advised to have circumcision for these health reasons,the majority of male circumcision is done for CULTURAL REASONS!! And I also said that I have seen quite a few terrible complications arising from badly done male circumcision.Bad enough to qualify as Genital Mutilation.So the claim of health reason for male circumcision is just to find a reasn to justify it.

2. Many men in cultures where male circumcision is not practiced,have done very well with their prepuce intact.No complaints whatsoever.So what is the cultural reason for male circumcision? In the same vein,I can assure you that the majority of parents who circumcize their male children have no clue about the Medical problems that can arise from the absence thereof.So why would they circumcize their boys for Medical problems they dont know about?

3. In my understanding,female circumcision involves the complete or partial removal of the clitoris.Nothing more,nothing less.If there are cases with mutilated labia and womb etc,as some responders have indicated,those must be complications and not procedures of intent.

4. Why is it so easy to condemn our elders who claim,amongst other beliefs,that female circumcision puts a check on the sexual excesses of a wife? In their wisdom they must have made their own observations,come together and agreed to inculcate this practice into their culture.Now these people practice female circumcision and the husbands amongst them have not sufficiently complained,neither have their wives also complained enough to render the practice unpopular!! This is the point I am making.When and if, it gets to such a stage,the practice will die a natural death.How is it that we have suddenly become wiser than these elders and are even emboldened enough to run their lives for them?

5. I beg to disagree with those that claim that female circumcision(that is removal of the clitoris only, and nothing else) renders a girl frigid.Anybody who is sufficiently experienced in these matters will agree with me that many circumcized girls enjoy sex,love it and regularly have orgasms.On the other hand,there are many uncircumcized girls who are frigid and who hate sex.So there are definitely other factors that interplay.I am sure the communities that practice female circumcision also love their women to be good in bed! If they are not getting it,they would have thrown the culture into the thrash bin.Period.

6. Finally, I neither support nor condemn female circumcision.All I am saying is that we can express our opinions,but we will be going too far if we insist on legislations against it.Yes,quacks who mutilate,causing severe morbidity or even mortality,be it female or male circumcision,should be brought to book.That's entirely in order.But when the practice is safely carried out,please lets leave them to their devises.

The Issue Of Female Circumcision. What Do You Think About It?

Recently,I listened to a radio discussion on female circumcision or "Genital mutilation" as the moderator frequently called it.I was thoroughly amused because,whereas d discussants found it convenient to label female circumcision as GENITAL MUTILATION(of course in a bid to kill it) they simply called the male version "circumcision"and claimed it was for "health reasons".

My position is that there is no such thing as "changing culture",suggesting that we drop certain aspects of our culture in a bid to move with the times.I believe the ancestors in every community have reasons for their cultural practices.If one finds them detestable, I believe the right thing is to abstain.Afterall,it is not compulsory to join any cultural practice.But for those who believe in it,they should be allowed to be!! Rather than people campaigning to abolish such practices.I believe every cultural practice should be allowed to die a natural,rather than a forced death,if indeed it has become increasingly unpopular.

The issue of "mutilation" has to do with quackery.Of course if the wrong people carry out female circumcision,there are bound to be complications,just as would also happen in every other surgical procedure.I have seen male external Instruments badly mutilated in the name of circumcision. Futhermore, there are many women today who had complication free circumcision and they are going about their lives and living them to the fullest.(By the way,I have also seen circumcised females who are nymphomaniacs and on the other hand,uncircumcized females who hate sex).So really,a woman's sexual response is as a result of interplay of many factors,of which circumcision or no circumcision is just one!

I am not an advocate of female circumcision but I think the noise being made against it from some quarters is not only uncalled for but also unfair and an infringement on the fundamental human rights of the practitioners of female circumcision.As I said before,all cultural practices are optional.

The lady has no biz telling the husband what she did(I am assuming he found out from her).It should have been kept top secret.Not that I support her line of action,but since she had done it already she should have kept mute and moved on.As for the man's action,most men would prefer dying from their ailment to their wives sleeping with the rich to save them.

Its a shame anyway but I am sure the man will come to his senses later,forgive her and retrace his steps.The woman should not be in a hurry to grant him the divorce.

She is definitely hot and shapely.Trendy,I dont understand what u mean by 'BIG NYASH'.What she has is what most men go for.

I agree that two much has been mentioned about her having kids and still looking good.It shouldnt be a big deal when considering beauties.There are many other women who are equally pretty even after 5 children!! Omotola is pretty,period,whether after four or not is immaterial.But the truth is that she has many Niga women who can compete favourably with her.

I have read the condemnations from many ladies on this issue and I laugh.The reason I laugh is that its been a long long time since I heard of a Nigerian lady refusing a man she digs because he's married.Ladies these days dont care a hoot about whether a guy is married or not.They just go for it and hope to catch their fun or get wadded up.Period.

Unfortunatley,the men that can throw wild parties with the expensive drinks in guest houses are the married ones.The men that can bankroll fun trips either within or outside Nigeria are mostly the married men.The men that have the money to spare are usually married.Girls need funds,so naturally they will gravitate towards these men.Its unfortunate but it is TRUE!!.Just take a look at the campuses.Virtually every girl who dates and socializes goes for any man she likes,married or unmarried.The few who are not interested in boyfriends will shun both married and unmarried.

So all this talk about being ill mannered,foolish etc is just hypocrisy.Many of those condeming this lady are culprits of the same "offence".

How do you access the chat room?

Hi folks,
I think people are generally being sentimental when they talk about Omotola having three kids and being married.Who says Rita will look any worse after having kids? Havent you heard that some women actually look better with fuller hips and shoulders after the hormones of pregnancy have beautified them? Check out Omotola's movies when she was much younger and perhaps unmarried.I saw one a long time ago.She was too skinny and not as buxom as she looks now.

Anyway Omotola is beautiful but her legs leave a lot to be desired(Apologies to Mr Ekehinde).Also,just like Rita,she depends heavily on make up for her great looks.As for Rita,she needs to visit her Dentist to reset her PROGNATHISM.Otherwise she is delectable.

Both ladies are doing well for themselves.I score them equal marks.

Folks,
Dont be deceived by that picture of Genevieve.It was doctored by professionals.Dont you see there are no spots at all on her face! That can only be done by computer touch up.

Having said that,I think both girls have done well for themselves in the beauty area.Genevieve is older and more experienced in the acting biz,so she has an edge over Stephanie in terms of sex appeal,carriage and acting.But I think Stephanie has improved a lot now and her height and figure are ok.Her only sore point are her legs.Not that Genevieve's legs are much better though.I think in real life,Stephanie might prove to be a more attractive person and better company.

I had a lover.We could not marry for other reasons other than a loveless relationship.Eventually we married other people.Now we are such great family friends,even though our spouses dont know we were ever lovers.We told them we were just childhood friends.And you know what? we share deep secrets now.We help ourselves and our families in anyway possible.Yet we dont feel the sexual attraction anymore.At least,I dont feel so when I am with this ex.

The lesson I learnt from this is that we should not always insist that every relationship must end in marriage.I think the friendship maybe for life even though you dont up marrying each other.