₦airaland Forum

budaatum:
Are you conveniently disregarding the many Christians who preached Bible to perpetuate slavery?

https://time.com/5171819/christianity-slavery-book-excerpt/

https://theconversation.com/the-curse-of-ham-how-people-of-faith-used-a-story-in-genesis-to-justify-slavery-225212

Thankfully, not all Christians even then refused to evolve.

https://presidentlincoln.illinois.gov/Blog/Posts/111/Abraham-Lincoln/2021/3/Abraham-Lincolns-arguments-against-using-the-Bible-to-justify-slavery/blog-post/

These are the stuff DeepSight and I talked about all day. All these are in the past now. Christianity moved past all these to become perhaps the most peaceful, accommodating and tolerant religion on earth today.

ono:
Bas, Raum, Benalvi, check this out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Witt

I found out after reading this:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/the-iranian-spy-recruitment-hub-operating-in-london/ar-AA1ZC8xU?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=90a84178cdfa46c68914a70647bbe2c0&ei=10

Guys, what do you think happened to this woman? Is budaatum going down thesame path as her?

TV01:
@Ono, have you actually been reading my posts? I ask because I made it clear that Christianity has never preached slavery. And, I made the distinction between the practices of those who claim to be Christians or to follow Christ and what the Bible\NT\Jesu\Paul prescribes as proper Christian conduct and practice. So again, Christianity does not teach or authorise or approve of slavery - and it never has. It is unchanged, it is the same message yesterday, today and forever - as is Christ Himself. Am I clear?

Now - and excuse me if I am reading you incorrectly - your insistence that Christianity has evolved is simply wrong. And leaves you compromised in your defence of the faith.

Let me demonstrate how.
1. If Christianity permits\authorises\agrees with slavery, and it is from God, then those who abolish it are against God and is commandments - effectively not obeying or submitting to God
2. If God authorises slavery, Christians fighting each other and non-Christians to abolish slavery are effectively sinning.

Hence my challenge, how has Christianity evolved as you claim? What other practice - not just slavery - does Christianity teach that Christians have done away with? Do not confuse what any sect or individual Christian may do with the true Christian message.

I believe faith is a very individual thing and understanding varies between believers in terms of when and how it is received. When I became a Christian, I was told tithing was utmost. I used to defend tithing - ardemtly. Over time I came to understand that the notion of mandatory tithing for Christians was incorrect. Was that Christianity evolving, or me coming to understanding and changing?

Be clear, if the message purportedly from God harms men or requires improvements by men, it cannot be from God.

Luke 4:18-19
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,
Because He has anointed Me
To preach the gospel to the poor;
He has sent Me [i]to heal the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set at liberty those who are oppressed;
To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord

Does that sound like slavery is a feature of Christianity or the kingdom of Heaven? Or does this?

Mark 12 - 29 Jesus answered him, “The [k]first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ [l]This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Or this?

Romans 13:10
Love does no harm to a neighbour; therefore love is the fulfilment of the law.

I have provided context and explained the situational approach that Paul had to take.

Please read and understand. And again. Please stop saying Christianity (the message, the truth) has evolved - it hasn't.


TV

I think that you are mixing up a lot of things. There some "word problems" here too making us to not understand each other. I'll be back. Need to attend to some urgent stuff.

TV01:
Again, nothing evil or wicked or that causes human harm is commanded or prescribed for Christians. I have clearly explained the OT laws given to the Jews and the Jews only (and non-Jews living amongt them) in direct covenant with a holy God.


Christianity does not teach them, that is why Christians reject them.

I didn't exempt slavery - if as you claim Christianity has evolved, what in addition to slavery has evolved?

Yes now, like your people naturally evolved from witch hunts, killing twins or selling their kindred for brollys?

Your retorts are weak. Why was it Christians and not Atheists (who Christians had to fight) unburdened by religion that championed abolition? Wishy-washy tropes like "moral evolution" do not happen in a vacuum. Christianity did that.

It's not my fault that the meaning of fulfil escapes you. When a law\contract is fulfilled, you are discharged, no longer subject to that law - replete in the bible. The new covenant ratified by The Blood of Jesus Christ is one of grace, not law.

Please stop mis-ascribing, mis-interpreting or willfully mis-reading the bible to justify your pain and 8tred. You are easily read and more easily debunked.


TV

There's something about your posts dear friend TV01. I don't like the zig zag way my brain goes trying to process your line of thoughts. Can you please pardon me when I don't respond to your calls? Please, do not take offense.

DeepSight:
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It is a pity that there is much that is very backward about this religion. And more so since it once experienced a golden age when it was the leading light of much advanced thought in the world.

Sadly it has been unable to shake off the tendency towards misogyny/ gender apartheid as well as a very violent streak which is taken straight from the pages of its scripture. The insistence on dictating what women wear in many Islamic countries, and the fact that in a place like Saudi Arabia until very very recently they were even denied the right to drive, is very telling. Many women in these theocratic places cannot even travel or move at all without permission from a male, what is that?

Beyond that look at the application of Shariah law in Northern Nigeria. It has been used to lock up several non Muslims for years - for alleged blasphemy in a supposedly secular country with constitutional freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of thought, conscience and religion? Look at the gruesome murder of Deborah, a Christian student in Northern Nigeria by a Muslim mob. Those who did it were on camera and they went scot free, even the governor justified it.

The truth is that this religion has an explicit creeping doctrine in which it seeks the total subjugation of the world to Islamic tenets. And in this they are specifically guided to appear moderate and gentle when in the minority but to become belligerent when in the majority. This is where the practice of Taqiyya often comes in. Telling lies to defend oneself and to defend Islam when in a weak position. But once they are in the majority, no one can truly be safe in terms of the rights we understand to be standard in the modern world.

Look at the practice of honor killing for example. What can we say of that.

There is too much that Islam has not evolved past and frankly it is still dwelling in the medieval world.

Very well articulated details about the crimes of Islam. Cannot add anything. I can only say those defending the religion need to have their brains examined. And those of them that claim they're peace loving should take time out to examine their conscience and tell themselves they're in the right or wrong circle.

basilico:
Deepsight is not Ijebos. Ijebos could never say anything wrong against Islam, even if he created another 30 handles.
Not because he doesn't know ior knows but because conservatives critique Islam. He can never side with conservatives, they are all vile

Noted. Apologies to DeepSight.

DeepSight:
+
This is ahistorical.

The Bible contains teachings such as that commanding the murder of so called witches and injunctions authorizing slavery and these have been implemented by Christians through the ages to disastrous effect through the witch hunts where the refrain "suffer not a witch to live" (Exodus 22:18) was deployed for centuries and through the slave trade where biblical verses were deployed as well in defense of and authorization of slavery.

That Christians today reject these is evolution.

+
The very fact that you have to exempt slavery when presenting this dubious challenge shows you to be acting fraudulently.

+
In the natural moral evolution of humans they gradually come to recognize certain things as barbaric and abandon them.

PS: The distinction you and others strive to make between the OT and NT is futile for Christ himself said that he came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it.

Good points for the most parts. Well done!

But the statement in bold appears to not apply to the adherents of Islam, what say you?

DeepSight:
+
You said he came out openly with his full chest. Why are you now sending quotes from a bemeruca who I already saw made that accusation ad infinitum ad nauseum?

You know what? Let's wait for him to come and disprove this claim. Is that OK?

DeepSight:
+
Thank you for wasting my time. After looking through I can't find any post that says what you claim.


+
You can think whatever you like.
I have a record on this board dating back to 2009.

What about this from bemeruca?

bemeruca:
IjeBos is not pride of Lincoln of Lincoln had a daughter that was 38 years old then, another that just graduated in 2021 and one that is a nurse. Then he had 3 children from another woman, two girls and a son. He was married 3 times. Ijebos is gay

as per my equating you to Ijebos, It's just a feeling I have. Could be true or false, bros. I do not intend to cause any hurt.

DeepSight:
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Where did he so come out or is this hearsay. Provide the link.

https://www.nairaland.com/search?q=ijebos+is+gay&search=Search

Why do I have this feeling that Ijebos = DeepSight?

nateevs:
Are you pointing out something that MOSSAD, The CIA and MI6 haven't been doing four decades?

Well, I get you. It's a tit for tat world out there.

DeepSight:
+
On what ground do you attempt to cast him as gay repeatedly?

Oh, I am not the one who cast him as gay. I understand that himself came out in the open, and as my people will say "with his full chest", to say he's gay.

Let him come and tell us he's not - and I will humbly apologise stop my outbursts and attacks against an innocent man.

TV01:
Could you make the distinction between what people do or their practices, and what Christianity\The Bible\NT actually preaches and instructs Christians to do?. I repeat, Christianity has not "evolved".

The whole charge against ee.slam is that what its texts prescribes, its very tenets are evil and the driver of moose.slim practice.

I can put my money where my mouth is. Even to those who would misrepresent me or my faith. £250 to anyone who can show me wrong in any of the following;

1. An evil, wicked or harmful practice in the NT (not just slavery) or prescribed for Christians that Christians have evolved away from.
2. Why Christians fought and died to abolish slavery when as claimed the bible supports it?

So again, the Scriptures remain unchanged. There have been and will always be departures from scripture by those who call themselves Christians or claim to follow Christ. Different sects and denominations may adopt certain unscriptural practices, but the faith first delivered to the saints however remains.

Just like we don't judge ee.slam by individual sects or personal practice, but what its texts say, likewise the Christian texts are there for all to read.

See free money - and nobody has to sell anybody to claim it


TV

The bold part. Are you saying Christians still practice slavery today? If yes, can you show me an example where this is practiced? It is important that we understand each other so we don't waste time trying to reason out of context.

For the point 2 you listed - abolishment of slavery, like I pointed out in one of my responses to DeepSight, the Holy Spirit of the Most High is still working in the hearts and minds of those that truly believe and are willing to be led by Him . It is the Spirit that leads, Just like Jesus said He would do to those that believe when Christ ascended up in glory.

John 14:26 (KJV)
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things..


You have to come to that realisation that the Spirit of the Lord is active and alive today working in the hearts and minds of those that love the Lord. It is He who guides us. The Holy Spirit is behind all that we have achieved and accomplished as a civilisation - the Western Civilisation. It is the Spirit of the Lord that works actively to bring about positive changes to societies (if you will believe this), including the abolishment of slavery, empowerment of the weak, promotion of egalitarian and just societies and all that is positive and true. You will observe that all these are at the foundations of Western Civilisation that Islam is hell bent on destroying.

Bas, Raum, Benalvi, check this out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monica_Witt

I found out after reading this:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/the-iranian-spy-recruitment-hub-operating-in-london/ar-AA1ZC8xU?ocid=winp2fptaskbarhover&cvid=90a84178cdfa46c68914a70647bbe2c0&ei=10

DeepSight:
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What do you gain by this?

Not my gain. It's his. And because the Lord wants him to do this, He loved him, He has sent someone like him (ijebos) to come out in the open and show others the way to their redemption.

Ijebos:

https://www.nairaland.com/8643415/what-me-husband-gained-after

Not too late to retrace your steps.

DeepSight:
+
But he knew that the slavery of his day was bondage, and that the slave did not have a free choice in it. Why would he then ask the slave to accept that bondage in his spirit, going so far as to say that the slave must not be pretending about it: that it must not be eye service but must be real?

Let us accept that Saul said many unacceptable things including advertising his male chauvinism by saying that women must be silent in fellowship.

And there you go. You’re bringing the natural man thing into this conversation- the way buda would. It won’t work. Besides, you probably are making a wrong assumption about the "slavery of Paul's days" You have to go back in time and get surrounded by the circumstances of Paul's days for you to fully appreciate what the dynamics of play was back then. You are using the 21st century mirror to look at what was the norm between 40 - 70 AD. It won't fit. It won't work!

DeepSight:
+
Once again I think you have spoken very well here, and in fact the truth is that the bold is the way I would apply it.

However, I felt compelled to point out that far from denounce a worldly norm, no matter how "legal" it was in its day, scripture sought to convince the enslaved to buy into it from the core of their spirits.

That is not Christlike - after all, Christ denounced many norms of his day.

Paul while writing the books (letters) of Ephesians and Colossians had a target audience in mind - as led by the Holy Spirit. That audience, as far as I can see, wasn't baby Christians, newbies and unbelievers. Read my earlier post up there. The people he wrote those books and letters to perfectly understood what admonitions/messages the Holy Spirit passed across through Paul. I don't think DeepSight is ready to understand this.

DeepSight:
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Let me add (mainly for the benefit of ono and TV01) that the NT ALSO ADVOCATES SLAVERY.
In these two diabolical and insidious verses, it seeks to reach into the minds of slaves and convince them to sincerely accept slavery even in their spirits.

Ephesians 6:5 "Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as to Christ;"

Colossians 3:22 "Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord."

At the time of the writing of the books of Ephesians and Colossians, the Romans were the sole superpower of the world. Slavery was the norm.....never frowned at in the society as it is today.

We discussed the evolution of Christianity earlier on. I thought you already acknowledged that the Christians have evolved through the ages to become the most accommodating, compassionate, loving and heaven-ward looking religion on earth as things stand today.

Have you now changed your position, after reading those verses in Colossians and Ephesians?

I will advise that you "apply" the teachings from those two verses to present day "workers or subordinates" (replace slave) and supervisors or leaders (replace masters) and re-read the verse again. Might help you.


From the foregoing, you can and should be able to tell now that reading the Bible, just like any other book, will make it look like a useless or crazy book, right. But like I pointed out earlier:

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned.

DeepSight:
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And oh, just by the way. If you truly believe your last paragraph then what is the issue with me quoting scripture? After all you believe that all scripture is inspired of God and beneficial not so?

You did well to point this out DeepSight. I will answer.

You are not yet ready for the interpretation of that scriptural verse. If we start to discuss this verse now, you will bring in the wisdom of men, logic and other thoughts into it. So, no point. You have to be humble enough to allow the Holy Spirit to rule over that your cocky, "I know something" attitude. You get what I mean? Anyway, if you don't get it, forget about it

bemeruca:
This is why Cococandy hates rich people 😂😂

🚨 NOW in NYC: “No Kings” protest gets even crazier, a Communist group openly chanting “There is only one solution, COMMUNIST REVOLUTION!” while marching with the crowd.
pic.twitter.com/6Ql44N9OJw

— Gunther Eagleman™ (@GuntherEagleman) March 28, 2026

Haha bas..very funny.

But Coco is a nice, kind hearted lady. I have read some of her posts. She meant well, it's just that her case is like that of an eagle who's eating worms with the hens on the ground instead of soaring high and feeding on big games in the skies above. Hopefully with time she will hear the voice of reason and heed the call to change ranks.

TV01:
By now it's clear that you do not come here to discuss or debate in any way that could be considered honest. It's a handful of clichés and cookie cutter narratives, outside of which there is very little evidence of any meaningful content.

I wrote on this very topic, on this same thread, not that long ago. In response to a claim you made,
https://www.nairaland.com/4508641/american-politics-thread-trump-47th/5556#137573719

Firstly, Christianity has not "evolved". It remains exactly the same - unchanging. It's the NT.
^{@ono, please stop saying Christianity has evolved. Thanks.}

Thanks TV01.

You should try to understand at my reasons for using the word “evolve” in this context. Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand the points you raised, but when you’re dealing with people who are not of the faith, we use an approach well suited to their needs - without losing the desired impact.

DeepSight is comparing Christianity to an archaic, violent and most likely a false religion (based on many of the evidences presented) called Islam. Now, Christianity is a lot much older than Islam. Islam came to the world in the 6th to 7th century AD and quickly gained adherents largely by force of arms.

Anyways, in my response to DeepSight quoting verses related to slavery and stuff from Deuteronomy and other books, it’s important to note that all the things quoted in those books are not practised by Christians today. Those instructions were even meant for the Hebrews - the children of Israel.

You can’t deny that many of the Christian practices of the Middle Ages by Catholics and even some Protestant Christians have all given way to the voice of reason and knowledge and the overwhelming influence of the Holy Spirit, something Islam has been unable to achieve and get their adherents to rid themselves of. In fact, as basilico pointed out in one of his entries, a female Muslim professor was seen encouraging Islam adherents to practice slavery and take women of their captors as goods to be sold or something like that.

Now speaking to what you probably are thinking, we know that:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness 2 Timothy 3:16 KJV - but this is not the time to dwell on this bit of the scripture.

nateevs:
The Houthis have officially entered the war.

I laugh in Burmese

Alikoooooooooo:
The term master and slave in Christianity might be lost in translation.

Jesus did the strange by his time in defending a woman caught in adultery from an angry mob. In his time Jesus hung out with the lowest in society so it rather unlikely he would have endorsed slavery.

You only endorse what you never relate with. I.e Endorse the bombing of Iran is from those who are negative to Iran.

Jesus had no Master and he feared no one. He was completely free of the system. You Extend who you are others.

if I said " you are my dog " this generation will say I'm saying we are friends. If I said it 50 years ago it would be said I was being derogatory.

Before you go very far with your liberal mumbo jumbo, let's look at those statements in bold.

The first one sounds like cognitive dissonance to me. The Iran analogy you painted is unrelated to the first statement, shallow at best. Who told you (or what makes you think) everyone opposed to the Iranian Islamic regime and their IRGC is ALL out against everything Iranian - and the Iranian people? Are you ok?

For the second statement, you don't sound like someone who knows Jesus - another buda, at best. What system do you mean in your statement? Again, are you sure you're OK?

The dog bit in your comment in your last statement, I dunno what to say tbh.

DeepSight:
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I agree with you, Christianity certainly does not teach these things and has evolved. I was only pointing out the fact that these are contained in the OT as well.

I may well add that the NT preaches that slaves should obey their masters. thereby endorsing slavery. But as you said, it has evolved.

Islam remains significantly backward in many places.

I find it hard to believe that you liberals -many of you professing Christians, you know all these things YET, you blindly enable policies, manipulate laws, encourage the immigration of these "primitive" people into the West. Imagine someone, a professor in her own right, still preaching these archaic, devilish teachings in this day and age, even getting an account on X! Isn't this the suicidal things about the West that me, Bas, Raum, Benalvi, and Bemeruca we are all about on this board?

What will it take for us to point the folly in all you leftist guys that what you are doing will destroy what we cherish, that we were brought up with, that shaped us and shaped Western Civilisation from the destructive path you guys tow? What?? Look at buda. What can one do to help her?

DeepSight:
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To be clear there are similar teachings in the Old Testament.

Deuteronomy 21:10–14
"When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou thou hast humbled her."

Numbers 31:15–18
"And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

Deuteronomy 20:13–14
"And when the Lord thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword: But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the Lord thy God hath given thee."

Judges 21:20–23
"Therefore they commanded the children of Benjamin, saying, Go and lie in wait in the vineyards; And see, and, behold, if the daughters of Shiloh come out to dance in dances, then come ye out of the vineyards, and catch you every man his wife of the daughters of Shiloh, and go to the land of Benjamin... And the children of Benjamin did so, and took them wives, according to their number, of them that danced, whom they caught: and they went and returned unto their inheritance, and repaired the cities, and dwelt in them.

Deep_blind (won't call you DeepSight), the difference between Christianity and Islam is that while you have Islamists - like the professor bas quoted up there still preaching and admonishing their adherents to follow 7th century "teachings", Christianity has evolved over the years to do away with all you have quoted from the Old Testament.

You will never see a "Christian Professor" teaching people to do anything slavery in the 21st Century! Now, if you don't have anything meaningful things to share, please back off!

budaatum:
Jesus was talking to Peter whom he assumed was being satanic. But it says a lot about you who has no control over yourself and assumes buda is not in control of themself.

You are a puppet so must think everyone is a puppet, and that's very said, especially when the Jesus you mentioned is supposed to empower you.

I have absolute control over myself, by the grace of the Lord Almighty. buda is lost. She is dead lost and the problem with her is that she does not know this. Nothing can be worst than when you are sick and you do not know you are unwell. Incidentally, this is the state of almost all liberals the world over - shortsighted, arrogant, proud, resentful, loud, boastful, without natural affection, manipulators, argumentative...endless.

buda, I am tired of responding and doing merry go round things on issues.

budaatum:
Of what use is your belief in your god, you make me ask, since your holy book must obviously not have Informed you to respect others, and you are incapable of deriving that knowledge from "love your neighbours".

Oh, I should clarify. This wasn't directed at "you" as a person. It is to the deceitful and wicked spirit that's controlling you. Remember what Jesus said to Peter, his own friend and disciple?

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matthew 16:23 KJV

So that even though he was talking to Peter, in reality, it was the evil devilish spirit in Peter that Jesus was rebuking. You know, that passage up there aptly describe you and your likes in this "place". I hope you can relate and will be humble enough to at the least allow God's word to penetrate that your hardened stony heart.

For he is our God; And we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand.To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your heart, As in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: - Psalm 95:7-8 KJV

Know also that I admire you. All that talent you have, don't let the Devil waste it all for you. Let the Lord put it to good use in your life.

budaatum:
buda is an atheist who knows gods are created by humans who write stories about gods.

Gbenu e so un, opuro.

bemeruca:
You are telling lies as usual.

buda lies a lot.

IMAliyu2:
Lol, lmao even.
Trump admin has burned out any political capital they initially had after the elections.

Gen Z CPAC attendee says Republicans "are going to get destroyed in the midterms":

"A lot of people I knew who just voted for Trump because they thought it was cool, are just now being like, 'I can't stand the guy.'" pic.twitter.com/4u28OqSs1q

— The American Conservative (@amconmag) March 26, 2026

There's still plenty of time to wipe out Islamist terrorists in Iran. Fingers crossed.