₦airaland Forum

Emusan:
We are not disputing about this but the Hebrew scholars say Yahweh is MORE CORRECT in pronunciation than Jehovah which Jehovah's Witness know about and agree with.

The question now is why will Jehovah's witness chose Jehovah rather than Yahweh?
Of which the origin of Jehovah is from a Catholic monk.

dolphinheart:
The holy spirit is an active force that jehovah uses to perform different functions and this force exerts power. Some of those Anointed with the holy are said to be able to perform certain miraculous works . Some are said to be able to see visions, some giving power to endure certain trials while others are said to hear directives and instructions through the holy spirit. All these is part of the helper role that jesus said it will perform when it comes upon followers of jesus.
In acts 13:2 , the people who are there were ministering to jehovah when it was recorded that the holy spirit said. Does this not imply (in accordance with the other bible verses on Gods usage of the holy spirit ) that god used that force to impact what was said to them .
That the holy spirit speak does not imply that it is a person. A radio speaker saying understandable sounds does not mean that the radio is the originator of the sound , but someone(a person) is using the ability the radio has to transmit information, and anyone giving such oportunity can use that radio to do the same thing.

In not sure of the following bracketed statement but I still assume it is true unless contrary prove is being brought forward( Unlike jesus, angels , demons, jehovah, spirit creatures that the bible ascribed personality to , holy spirit has in no where in the scriptures been said to have a conversation with someone. other spirit creatures mentioned have had conversation /discussion with others and it is recorded .)

The holy spirit is being poured out and likened to a gift to different People and it is being used to anoint .
Luke 11:13 explains that God gives those who ask for it the holy spirit just like a father gives his children gifts. Surely this holy spirit is not a person.

dolphinheart:
I believe the answer to ur question lies in knowing what jesus, in relation to his followers , went to heaven to do . By knowing that, we will know why he had to go before the spirit is being poured upon them.

brocab:
In Revelation 11- the lord talks about the two witnesses, coming just before the Lord.
Some say its Moses and Elijah-others say its Enoch and Elijah-and others say it's Elijah and John the baptist, under the same anointing.
I believe the Lords talking about these two witnesses not as two people but two tribes of people the Jews as the Olive tree and the branches grafted in as the gentiles.
Am I right?

OLAADEGBU:
Did Jesus rise from the dead in the same body he died in?

http://carm.org/questions/about-jesus/did-jesus-rise-dead-same-body-he-died

BIBLESPEAKS:
"Morphe" simply means outward appearance. Jesus has the same outward appearance with his father, he has the same outward appearance with the angelic creatures of the heaven. They are all spirits, a higher form of life to our flesh. Its like sayn a man and a mouse are of the same outward appearance because they have a fleshly appearance. Dsnt make the mouse a man.

So jesus although being in the same outward appearance with God, did not consider equality with God as something to be grasped. Its quite unlike the angel that later became satan, who has God's outward appearance(a spirit) and he went on to covert the worship that belonged to God. But jesus humbled hímself and took on a fleshly body and died a shameful death.

This is the explantion that is consistent with the context of phil 2:3-9 because it borders on humily. To say that jesus considered it not robbery to be equal to God would be to go out of context, and the point paul was making would be missed.

taiwoawoniyi:
God bless you for that. What church do you attend if I may ask,

BIBLESPEAKS:
How is Phil. 2:6 Meant to Be Understood?

To begin with, the context of Phil. 2:3-9 indicates how Phil. 2:6 should be understood. The context stresses the concept of humility and obedience, and Phil. 2:6 itself is clearly meant as the prime example of this for all Christians. Even The Amplified Bible, for example, translates Phil. 2:3, 5 this way:

"Instead, in the true spirit of humility (lowliness of mind) let each regard the others as better than and superior to himself.... Let this same attitude and purpose and [humble] mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus. - Let Him be your example in humility."

Then that very example of Jesus (Phil. 2:6- is given. - Cf. The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, vol. 1, p. 547.

Most trinitarian interpretations of Phil. 2:6, however, do not show Jesus as regarding God as "better than and superior to himself" in the beginning (as the context demands for this example). Most of them, instead, twist that proper example of humility into just the opposite: an example of a person who regards himself already as equal to the Most High, Almighty God ("thought it not robbery to be equal to God". Such an interpretation destroys the very purpose (Phil. 2:3) of Jesus' "example in humility" here.

Paul is not telling us to regard ourselves as equal to others. He is clearly using Jesus as his example to teach that each Christian must, as the very trinitarian Amplified Bible above puts it, "regard others as better than and superior to himself". And yet most trinitarian translations show Jesus doing the very opposite in this "example in humility" for all Christians.

Something, then, is very wrong with the translation of Phil. 2:6 in most trinitarian Bibles. Consider the following:
---------------------------------------...

CONCERNING THE WORD "FORM" [morphe]:

Many trinitarian Bible scholars attempt to force an interpretation of "form" [morphe] that includes the idea of "essence" or "nature." However, even many trinitarian Bible scholars admit:

"Morphe is instanced from Homer onwards and means form in the sense of outward appearance." - The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, 1986, Zondervan, p. 705, vol. 1.

Therefore, God, Jesus, and the angels all have the “essence” or “nature” of spirit. This obviously does not make them all equally God! Man, mouse, and canary are certainly not all equally man simply because they all have the same “essence” or “nature” of flesh.

If Paul had intended `nature,' `very essence,' etc., he certainly would not have used a word which means only external appearance (morphe). He would have used one of the words which really mean absolute nature.
---------------------------------------...

CONCERNING THE WORD "HARPAGMOS":

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (by trinitarian writer and trinitarian publisher) tells us that harpagmos means "plunder" and that it comes from the source word harpazo which means: "to seize ... catch away, pluck, take (by force)." - #725; 726, Abingdon Press, 1974 printing.

And the New American Standard Concordance of the Bible (also by trinitarians) tells us: "harpagmos; from [harpazo]; the act of seizing or the thing seized." And, "harpazo ... to seize, catch up, snatch away." Notice that all have to do with taking something away by force. - # 725; #726, Holman Bible Publ., 1981.

But, in spite of some trinitarians' reasonings and euphemistic renderings, it is clear from the way it was always used in Scripture that harpagmos means either taking something away by force (a verb), or something which has been taken by force (a noun).

Paul certainly wouldn't destroy this example of humility for fellow Christians by saying that Jesus is thinking that it isn't "robbery" (KJV) for him to be equal with the Most High. Besides being a nonsensical statement, it is just the opposite of humility. Instead, to be in harmony with the purpose of Paul's example, we must find a Jesus who regards God as superior to himself and won't give even a moment's thought about attempting to take that most high position himself, but, instead, humbles himself even further.

When even a number of the best trinitarian scholars are willing to admit the actual meaning (or even an equivalent compromise) of harpagmos at Phil. 2:6, it becomes necessary for honest-hearted, truth-seeking individuals to admit that Phil. 2:6 not only does not identify Jesus as God, but that it clearly shows Jesus is not God.

Kei144:
Philippians 2:6 places Jesus Christ at par with Adam. They were both made in the image of God. Both had the opportunity to become equal to God (or to be express image of the living God). Satan showed both of them the supposed shortcut to being exactly like God--taking His fruit. Adam succumbed to Satan and failed woefully. Jesus did not believe Satan's lie that there is a short cut to becoming like God; instead, he humbled himself and became obedient to God as a faithful servant, and became obedient even unto death on the cross. That was how Jesus Christ qualified to be made equal to God. He was not equal to God in eternity past; he didn't even exist then. He began to exist a little more than 2,000 years ago and he became equal to God less than 2,000 years ago.

Ph. 2:6 Who, being in very nature [Or in the form of] God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
Ph. 2:7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature [Or the form] of a servant, being made in human likeness.
Ph. 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death — even death on a cross!
Ph. 2:9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
Ph. 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Ph. 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He. 12:2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Emusan:
Ok! fro what I can infer from your post IT'S LIKE you agree that Jesus has EQUALITY with the Father as per Bolden and underlined parts.

Am I right?

JMAN05:
Proof that bold face scripturally. Thanks for accepting they represented YHWH.

Emusan:
Discussing TRINITY with Jehovah Witness, Trinitarian can point to Philippians 2:6 to show that Jesus existed in the form/nature of God but JWs will quickly point to the last part of that verse to claim that Jesus didn't claim EQUALITY with God or sometimes JWs will say Jesus ONLY existed as a spirit person since God is a spirit. Is it true?

If Philippians 2:6 says "Who, being in the form of God...," and the next statement says "thought it not robbery to be equal with God" (KJV) something must has been lost in the mind of individual trying to reconcile second statement with the first statement. Some Trinitarians stuck at this point while JWs think that's the best time to continue with it.

I will ask only one question which I'll like anyone who wants to contribute should limit his/her answer to without going outside of this question.

Is Philippians 2:6 says Jesus is EQUAL or NOT EQUAL to God?

NOTE: Please no reference to another scriptures ONLY the UNDERSTANDING of Philippians 2:6 we need here.

JMAN05:
Oh my goodness! do you even read my comment before responding? I gave you those verses to show that God can view "day" to be of different durations. You were insisting on 24hr day and a gave that to clear you a little.

I only gave you Gen 2:4, you have brought other portions which will confuse you the more. And now, you missed the point. You didnt even quote verse 4 where you were rushing.

Gen 2:4:

"This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven"

After the creation that took place in the verses and chapter previously which lasted for more than 5 days, this gen 2:4, said that all those things happened in a "day". How many hours is that "day"?
(/quote) the word " day " is translated from the Hebrew word
YOWM. it means day , year and can also mean Time.
he was not saying the day in respect to day and night but in respect to time . that is the time God created heavens and earth. The next verse says When no plant of the field. ..... (/quote)

The way KJV rendered that Gen 2:2 is wrong. They said "rested". That is wrong. The Hebrew verb that occurred there is waiyishboth. This verb is an imperfect verb which denotes an incomplete action. It should be translated "began to rest". God's rest didnt end that literal 24-hr day. God's 7th day of rest took even more than a 1000 years in length.

Paul added to that truth in Heb. 4:4, 5, but again you were in a rush that you quoted only verse 4. Read my comments very well dear.

Paul, in verse 3 showed that God's creative work were completed long time ego, yet he made a statement, "they shall not enter into my rest", which shows that God's rest was still on till the days of David and even Paul.

So God began to rest after the creation, but His rest has not ended. In all this long time, it is still 7th day not days.



Owning death does not mean you won't die, does it?

2. If you atleast believe that all saints have never been raised, and that all governments have never been brought to nothing, then death has never been brought to nothing according to that context. Do you believe that?

1cor. 15:54, 55 "But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: “Death is swallowed up forever". [size=15]Death where is your victory"?[/size]

Answer:

a. When will the saying above take place?

b. What lead to the shout "death where is your victory"? [see preceding phrase]

c. So, when does the defeat totally take place?

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Try and break the quotation before you post a comment.

If you want to qyote by comments one by one. Do this at the beginning eg

JMAN05:
Oh my goodness! do you even read my comment before responding? I gave you those verses to show that God can view "day" to be of different durations. You were insisting on 24hr day and a gave that to clear you a little.

I only gave you Gen 2:4, you have brought other portions which will confuse you the more. And now, you missed the point. You didnt even quote verse 4 where you were rushing.

Gen 2:4:

"This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven"

After the creation that took place in the verses and chapter previously which lasted for more than 5 days, this gen 2:4, said that all those things happened in a "day". How many hours is that "day"?
( quote ) the word " day " is translated from the Hebrew word
YOWM. it means day , year and can also mean Time.
he was not saying the day in respect to day and night but in respect to time . that is the time God created heavens and earth. The next verse says When no plant of the field. ..... (/quote)

The way KJV rendered that Gen 2:2 is wrong. They said "rested". That is wrong. The Hebrew verb that occurred there is waiyishboth. This verb is an imperfect verb which denotes an incomplete action. It should be translated "began to rest". God's rest didnt end that literal 24-hr day. God's 7th day of rest took even more than a 1000 years in length.

Paul added to that truth in Heb. 4:4, 5, but again you were in a rush that you quoted only verse 4. Read my comments very well dear.

Paul, in verse 3 showed that God's creative work were completed long time ego, yet he made a statement, "they shall not enter into my rest", which shows that God's rest was still on till the days of David and even Paul.

So God began to rest after the creation, but His rest has not ended. In all this long time, it is still 7th day not days.



Owning death does not mean you won't die, does it?

2. If you atleast believe that all saints have never been raised, and that all governments have never been brought to nothing, then death has never been brought to nothing according to that context. Do you believe that?

1cor. 15:54, 55 "But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: “Death is swallowed up forever". [size=15]Death where is your victory"?[/size]

Answer:

a. When will the saying above take place?

b. What lead to the shout "death where is your victory"? [see preceding phrase]

c. So, when does the defeat totally take place?

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Try and break the quotation before you post a comment.

If you want to qyote by comments one by one. Do this at the beginning eg

JMAN05:
1. When in particular did Jesus take man's place, thereby being spiritually dead? Tell me when that started with the scriptures.

2. "Even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God" 1Pet 3:18

Who is that righteous person? and is someone separated from God righteous?



1. The sacrifices done through the Law was a type for Christ's sacrifice. Yes or no?

2. Let me paste the account:

Heb 9:14
14[b] how much more will the blood of the Christ, who through an everlasting spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse our consciences from dead works so that we may render sacred service to the living God?[/b]

What do you understand by the word "blemish/spot"?

If Christ was imperfect when offering the sacrifice, isn't that a spot?



Who said that "begotten" means to resurrect?

I said that "first born from the dead" as mentioned in that revelation, is that Christ was the first to be raised immortal. That he was the first does not mean that he is the ONLY one who will receive such resurrection. That is so that you don't misinterpret the scriptures anymore.

If you are referring to Heb 1:5, then what you have above is not what I said.



From your words, why he died was because of sin. Right?

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You ve not replied to this posts:

JMAN05:
Guess you now know that not only pre-Christian servants of God that are affected.



Oga, God can use the word "day" in different ways to refer to different duration of time. 2Pet. 3:8 shows that God can view a "day" to be 1000 years in length. At 2Peter, the word used there should not be viewed with english mirror. Use Greek. The word which occurs there is "hoos". And according to Thayer's lexicon, this word refers to equality/similarity.

However, God's view of the word "day'' is not limited to that. See Gen 2:4, Heb 4:4, 5 to see that the word "day" as used in the bible does not always refer to a 24-hour duration.

So, even if Adam lived up to 930 years, he hasn't crossed God's "day".



In as much as he has a mortal body, death has authority over him. You cant ask "death where is your sting". How can you ask that when Paul was discussing the subject of resurrection in that chapter. Those he was writing to had dead brothers, but are having doubt about the truthfulness of the resurrection. Lets see the immediate context of that verse.

vs 22 shows that all are dying because of Adam. why? He died and we inherited death from him. (Isn't that revealing?) but resurrection is 'cos of Christ.

vs 23 Resurrection will proceed. First Christ, second, the "saints" during his presence.

24 Paul used the word "next" to usher in the 24th verse. This shows that events will take that order. The end. then Christ will hand over power to Jehovah his God. that is, when Christ must have brought down "all" government/authority and power on earth.

25 still dilating on the verse 24 point, but stating that among the enemies to be wiped out, death is the last.

vs 26 buttressed the point further that death will be brought to nix or nothing.

If you atleast believe that all saints have never been raised, and that all governments have never been brought to nothing, then death has never been brought to nothing according to that context. In short, arguing that point is not reasonable, unless you are new in the word of God.

Paul's words at 1cor. 15;55, 56 is said after the "saints" had been raised up as immortal persons. Now that death cant hold them, they can then shout/ask death, "where is your sting". Please read verse 54 to see what lead to that verse 55.

But spiritual death has no power over the "saints" as you said.

haffaze777:
Christians claim that the Bible has hundreds of fulfilled
prophecies, and is proof of its divine inspiration. In
actuality, these so called fulfilled prophecies failed, were
false or weren't prophecies at all. Many of these
prophecies are so vague, they can be attributed to
different events. It's also a fact that the Bible was
written many years after these presumed prophecies
and their "fulfillment" took place. It's also fair to
mention that nowhere in the Bible will you find
countries such as the United States, Russia, China, Korea,
Great Britain prophesied. Oh Christians will tell you
that they are, if you know how to interpret the Bible.
Genesis 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the
stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these
countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the
earth be blessed.
Here God tells Isaac that his descendents
(Hebrews) will be as numerous as the stars.
Considering the number of stars there are in the
universe, that would have to be on the order of
1020 Jewish people.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a
sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and
shall call his name Immanuel.
Christians say that this verse is a prophecy of
Jesus' birth to a virgin. There are a couple
problems with this prophecy...First, virgin in this
verse is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word
"almah", which actually means "young woman".
A young woman is not necessarily a virgin.
"Bethulah" would have been the correct word to
use if the author meant virgin. Second, nowhere in
the New Testament is Jesus referred to as
Immanuel.
Isaiah 17:1 The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus
is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a
ruinous heap.
Damascus is still inhabited today with over a
million people, and hardly a ruinous heap.
Isaiah 19:4-5 And the Egyptians will I give over into the
hand of a cruel lord; and a fierce king shall rule over
them, saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts. And the waters
shall fail from the sea, and the river shall be wasted and
dried up.
The river mentioned here is the Nile. The Nile is
still one of Egypt's greatest natural resource.
Isaiah 19:18 In that day shall five cities in the land of
Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the
LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of
destruction.
The Canaanite language has never been spoken in
Egypt, and is now an extinct.
Isaiah 52:1 Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion;
put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy
city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee
the uncircumcised and the unclean.
There are uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem
even today.
Ezekiel 29:10-11 Behold, therefore I am against thee,
and against thy rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt
utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even
unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass
through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither
shall it be inhabited forty years.
Never in its long history has Egypt ever been
uninhabited for forty years.
Amos 9:15 And I will plant them upon their land, and
they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which
I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.
Many times, Jews have been pulled up out of their
land. The ownership of their land is still being
fought for.
Jonah 3:4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's
journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and
Nineveh shall be overthrown.
Nineveh was never overthrown. Why? Because
God changed his mind in verse 3:10, despite what
Malachi 3:6, Numbers 23:19 and Ezekiel 24:14 says
about God never changing his mind.
Jonah 3:10 And God saw their works, that they turned
from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that
he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it
not.
Zechariah 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good,
give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed
for my price thirty pieces of silver.
Christians say that this prophecy is was fulfilled
when Judas received 30 pieces of silver for
betraying Jesus. Matthew 27:9 recites this verse,
but incorrectly credits Jeremiah with the prophecy.
Matthew 1:22-23 Now all this was done, that it might be
fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet,
saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall
bring forth a son, and they shall call his name
Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Again, Jesus is never referred to as Emmanuel
(Immanuel).
Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called
Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by
the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.
Nowhere in the Old Testament is such a prophecy
found, so how could such a one be fulfilled?
Matthew 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that
on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane
the sabbath, and are blameless?
There is no passage in the Old Testament that can
be attributed to what Jesus is saying here.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation
shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Jesus states that all the signs marking the end of
the world in Matthew 24 would be fulfilled before
his generation ended. That generation ended 2000
years ago, and the world has not come to an end,
neither has all those signs been fulfilled.
Matthew 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken
by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty
pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom
they of the children of Israel did value.
This prophecy was never spoken by Jeremiah.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said:
nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the
Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and
coming in the clouds of heaven.
Jesus tells the high priest that he would see his
second coming. The high priest is long dead, and
Jesus hasn't returned yet.
Throughout the New Testament, the end of the world is
prophesied as being very near, at hand, to be witnessed
by those living at the time. Paul often told the people he
preached to that they would be witnesses to Jesus' second
coming. They are all long gone.

deenAyetu:
I will make this thread so simple for all Christians. Logically and otherwise let us take this 'Christianity Test' serious. I am just coming back from church and my pastor did something he has never done before. He said, Pa Adeboye was the first that did it. It was after service, after sharing of the Grace and some of us where alreay leaving the church when He said, that his [b]Father commanded him to ask us to deep our hands in our packet and LEAVE OUR BEST OFFER' TO GOD.

Christianity Test: Which of these is a true Spirit of God- The most high

1. I heard (myself now) only give out #20 for God
2. The other voice came saying, provoke God with something that will inconvenience you- Drop everything in your pocket. (I had 49,500 with me, its even my younger brothers tuition fee I withdraw today because the queue in the ATM was less)

Which of these is a true Spirit of God- The most high

JMAN05:
Christ died spiritually, and that was why his Father forsook him? Are you kidding me?

The cry of Jesus was just a fulfilment of scripture dear, not that his father forsook him. He was raised by this same Father. But God had to live him so that he would save mankind.

Without his blood, no one will be saved. If Christ died spiritually, his blood would not be valid to redeem mankind. Because what was needed to redeem us was the blood of a perfect man, not someone who is separated from God. Heb 9:14 Where are you getting this garbage from?

You are basically saying that your trinity was separated from God. Impeccable!!

- First born from the dead means that he was the first to be raised up immortal.

Read Gen 3:19

what as the punishment for Adam eating that fruit? Physical or spiritual death?



That scripture isnt talking about born out of spiritual death. It was a decree God made to Christ by extension for a kingdom. It first fulfilled on David, then Jesus.

Remember what God said at Jesus baptism.

Christ has never been dead spiritually. Let me ask you: [size=15]When the bulls were offered in the Law for the sin of people, were the bulls killed spiritually or physically?[/size]



1. "For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord" Rom 6:23

This scripture can only be plausible if the death is physical. For our sin results to death, while Christ gives eternal life. If Christ's gift were only spiritual life, then we will all physically die eternally. Paul was spiritually alive, but he died eventually. You may say, he will be raised as a person, but no, eternal existence was never part of the gift. The gift was just living spiritually (If your argument were to be consistent. that is the implication.)

2. Nope. What is referred to at that 1Cor 15: 55, 56 is not spiritual death, but physical one. Paul's words were after the "saints" had received immortality after resurrection from the dead. Death has no power over them anymore. The "saints" were spiritually alive even before they died, it is only physical death that is there enemy here.

JMAN05:
"Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the same way that Adam transgressed, who bears a resemblance to the one who was to come."

Who is the one who is to come?



God does not dwell in time, but Peter told us that if we are to estimate His time, it will be a day to our 1000 yrs. Thats plane. And Adam never lived up to it. How hard is that?



People cant all be in the grave because none have lived up to God's "day". Well, His statement was that Adam will never live up to His "day".

Death still rules as king. You cant ask death where is your stings. Can you? But you can ask such from spiritual death. because when you are born again, as you say, you are then spiritually alive. Spiritual death has no power over you.



So spiritual death has no power over them, but physical death do. Agreed?