₦airaland Forum

Okay...add me 5344A085

Hi. I'm a medical professional looking for a beautiful and intelligent lady working or with good career prospect for a long relationship. Residing in the east an added boost. Add me...5344a085.

Hi. I'm a medical professional looking for a beautiful and intelligent lady working or with good career prospect for a long relationship. Residing in the east an added boost. Add me...5344a085.

Hi. I'm a medical professional looking for a beautiful and intelligent lady working or with good career prospect for a long relationship. Residing in the east an added boost. Add me...5344a085.

Hi. I'm a medical professional looking for a beautiful and intelligent lady working or with good career prospect for a long relationship. Residing in the east an added boost. Add me...5344a085

Hi. I'm a medical professional looking for a beautiful and intelligent lady working or with good career prospect for a long relationship. Residing in the east an added boost. Add me...5344a085.

Truth is that NMA leaders are scared of holding a one-on-one session with FG and JOHESU concerning the illegalities they have brought on our health institutions. They cannot hold their own when it comes to discussions and even in court. All the doctors here saying crap should really get enlightened:

http://dailyindependentnig.com/2014/09/ensure-peace-health-sector-faniran/

nobilis: Okay. Since the time that the issue happened till now, how has the nurse been sanctioned? And secondly, who will sanction the nurse? Yet you claim it is pure wickedness to prevent consultancy appointments.

Now tell me why the NMA should insist on Doctors being team leaders when the other health workers have refused to work as a team. Is it not when those you work with come up with team-working spirit, then doctors will be compelled to comply.

If there is a team, it means there is a team leader. Every ship has a captain. Every plane has a pilot. And who should be the leader of the medical team. That position is not a political position and should not be open to elections to see who is fit to lead the team. There are several reasons why a doctor is and should always be the head of the medical team treating a patient.

1. When the patient was being admitted, he was admitted into the doctor's (consultant physician/surgeon) unit. Meaning that the patient practically "belongs"(permit me to use that word) to the consultant physician or surgeon throughout his stay in the hospital. So who is better suited to lead the team treating that patient if not the consultant into whose unit the patient was admitted?

2. A doctor has a broader based medical education than the other health professions. A doctor has a knowledge of pathology ( so as to know when to order for tests and which tests to order for in certain disease conditions and interpret the results of tests when they get back to him). A doctor studies pharmacology (so as to acquaint himself with the way drugs work in the human body and to discover how drugs interact with each other and so on and so forth). The list goes on and on.
Because of his broad-based education, a doctor is better equipped to know when to call in other members of his team to play their roles. He decides when a patient needs laboratory and radiological tests. He decided when a patient needs drugs. You will agree with me that it is not every patient that comes to a hospital that is sent to the lab for tests. And it is not all patients that are given drug prescriptions. So among all the health professionals, who is the best suited to lead the medical team? Answer by yourself. Now you accuse doctors of not being team players when it is you JOHESUITES who have refused to work as a team.

As for the position of chief medical director, it is still the doctors who are best suited for that post. JOHESU has been hammering that doctors lack the administrative prowess needed to run that position. And the gullible general populace believe their stories. JOHESU comfortably forgot to mention that every hospital has a Director for Administration who is not a medical doctor and who is in charge of all the administrative functions in a hospital.

JOHESU, you guys should tell yourselves the truth. Stop trying to deaden your consciences. You all know the truth but have chosen to sit on top of it.

This is how your association is trying to deceive everybody...nobody is trying to usurp your role as team leader of the medical team. Nobody. Stop spreading that fallacy. And a general ward round is an important aspect of patient care. Get enlightened. There are some issues the doctor might overlook in a patient's care. That's what a general ward round addresses. Because you think a patient doesn't need a physiotherapist doesn't mean you'll always be right. There lies the problem. No one profession knows it all. Your 'thinking' that this is the case, that a patient can do without any other professional could be wrong at some point. No member of the health team is an island. TRUE. If a doctor will be the one deciding when every other team member comes into patient care, then which team is he leading?

nobilis: Okay. Since the time that the issue happened till now, how has the nurse been sanctioned? And secondly, who will sanction the nurse? Yet you claim it is pure wickedness to prevent consultancy appointments.

Now tell me why the NMA should insist on Doctors being team leaders when the other health workers have refused to work as a team. Is it not when those you work with come up with team-working spirit, then doctors will be compelled to comply.

If there is a team, it means there is a team leader. Every ship has a captain. Every plane has a pilot. And who should be the leader of the medical team. That position is not a political position and should not be open to elections to see who is fit to lead the team. There are several reasons why a doctor is and should always be the head of the medical team treating a patient.

1. When the patient was being admitted, he was admitted into the doctor's (consultant physician/surgeon) unit. Meaning that the patient practically "belongs"(permit me to use that word) to the consultant physician or surgeon throughout his stay in the hospital. So who is better suited to lead the team treating that patient if not the consultant into whose unit the patient was admitted?

2. A doctor has a broader based medical education than the other health professions. A doctor has a knowledge of pathology ( so as to know when to order for tests and which tests to order for in certain disease conditions and interpret the results of tests when they get back to him). A doctor studies pharmacology (so as to acquaint himself with the way drugs work in the human body and to discover how drugs interact with each other and so on and so forth). The list goes on and on.
Because of his broad-based education, a doctor is better equipped to know when to call in other members of his team to play their roles. He decides when a patient needs laboratory and radiological tests. He decided when a patient needs drugs. You will agree with me that it is not every patient that comes to a hospital that is sent to the lab for tests. And it is not all patients that are given drug prescriptions. So among all the health professionals, who is the best suited to lead the medical team? Answer by yourself. Now you accuse doctors of not being team players when it is you JOHESUITES who have refused to work as a team.

As for the position of chief medical director, it is still the doctors who are best suited for that post. JOHESU has been hammering that doctors lack the administrative prowess needed to run that position. And the gullible general populace believe their stories. JOHESU comfortably forgot to mention that every hospital has a Director for Administration who is not a medical doctor and who is in charge of all the administrative functions in a hospital.

JOHESU, you guys should tell yourselves the truth. Stop trying to deaden your consciences. You all know the truth but have chosen to sit on top of it.

This is how your association is trying to deceive everybody...nobody is trying to usurp your role as team leader of the medical team. Nobody. Stop spreading that fallacy. And a general ward round is an important aspect of patient care. Get enlightened. There are some issues the doctor might overlook in a patient's care. That's what a general ward round addresses. Because you think a patient doesn't need a physiotherapist doesn't mean you're right. There lies the problem. No one profession knows it all. Your 'thinking' that this is the case, that a patient can do without any other professional could be wrong at some point. No member of the health team is an island. TRUE.

armadeo: A team effort I agree and each team must have a leader who is responsible for the final outcome of the team. Am sure you know what happens when to many cooks are making a meal in one pot the pot here being the patient.
This issue isn't about patient benefits or care its about personal greed.

Why do johesu members want to be called consultants and say its for the benefit of the patient, that means their presence since has been a waste of space.

Again it's quite clear that you're very biased. I will refrain from debating further with you.

...

nobilis: Lol. Thanks for trying to educate us. I won't repeat many things. But as for the duty of a consultant, I will refer you to the article Phantom wrote on pages 2 and 3 of this thread.

I will gladly advise all JOHESUITES to seek the truth at the expense of killing and deadening their consciences. Like I said before, before a doctor is awarded an honorary consultancy, he must have completed a certain number of years of residency training in his chosen specialty. We are talking about a minimum of 5 years here (that is after medical school oo). When he completes residency, he becomes a specialist in his chosen field then he is appointed a consultant.
Recently, some nurses in UCH "arrogated" (permit me to use that word) to themselves, the title of consultant. Did they undergo any specialist training? In what area of the nursing practice are they specialists? Now you get my drift. JOHESUITES want to become consultants without undergoing any specialist training. Now tell me, how is that fair?

You say doctors are withholding the consultancy status for other health professionals. But I want to ask you: what do you expect the doctors to do when it is obvious that you guys are not acting in the best interests of the doctors' patients. Instances have been given where a consultant nurse prevented a consultant plastic surgeon from inspecting his patient's surgical site ( I ask: does this happen abroad? Is this how consultant nurses in the US work?) Another instance has been given where consultant pharmacists invaded the wards cancelling and modifying patient treatment plans without notifying the doctor in charge of such patients. (Does this happen abroad?)
Need I remind you that when a patient is admitted in a hospital, he is admitted under the name of a consultant physician or surgeon(not a consultant nurse or pharmacist). Meaning that the patient is assigned to that particular consultant physician/surgeon whose duty it is to make sure that the patient is treated properly. And that is why if there is any case of patient mismanagement, it is the consultant physician/surgeon who is sued for malpractice.

Now give me one reason why doctors will not fight against appointment of JOHESUITES as consultants. All you JOHESUITES wil shout and say it is because of insecurity and greed. But I ask you: why won't the doctors fight against such consultancy appointments when it is obvious that the only thing you guys want is to assert your authority and disrupt order in the hospitals to the detriment of the patients. Instead of trying to work with the doctors as a team, you guys want to fight with them to show who has the superior say in patient management. No. You guys don't reason that way. The only thing you see is that doctors are hindering your appointments.

As for the banning of the PharmD program, please and please, until there is enough incontrovertible proof that NMA has a hand in NUC's ruling, do not place false accusations on anybody.

You're biased. We both know that the consultant nurse who stopped the surgeon from seeing his patient can always be sanctioned after getting to the root of the matter. That's not enough reason from stopping her from being a consultant nurse. It's pure wickedness for anybody to stop any other person from getting to the height of his or her career. Period. This goes for the director issue as well. NMA, which in itself doesn't represent all medical professionals in Nigeria (I still insist it should be NMDA), is doing doctors a disservice by towing this line. Rather, 'NMA' should be emphasizing on Doctors being the team leaders. That is the more honorable thing to do.

nobilis: Please, my dear, I will advise you to desist from giving inputs in matters which you have not fully understood.
There is nothing wrong with nurses and pharmacists and any others being called consultants. It is not about the name. What's in a name? If it ends only in their answering the name "consultant", no one gives a damn. But the issue is that they are disrupting the work of doctors because they see themselves as consultants and therefore, they feel they have the right to do so. They usurp consulting rooms from doctors. They meddle with treatment plans fashioned out by doctors without consulting the doctors. They prevent the doctors from doing their jobs. Because they want to show the doctors that they also have a say. And who suffers in this situation? The patients.

But you have comfortably refused to see the anarchy breeding in the hospitals because of the clamor for such positions. And you have comfortably fixed your mind on the greed you perceive from doctors.

People like you are the people I refer to as the gullible populace with whom JOHESU scores her cheap points. Itz either you are that or you are a JOHESU operative. When JOHESU went on strike and tried to disrupt the work of doctors who were still working and taking care of hospital in-patients, what did the NLC/TUC and the general Nigerian populace say about it? Absolutely nothing. But NMA has gone on strike now and u see them as d devils who are heartless and want to kill people.

Nigerians, until we learn to uphold truth and justice, progress and unity will remain very far from us.

She's right, you know. Doctors shouldn't be the only ones planning for the patient. That's why medicine is a team effort. You don't bully your way through as a dictator here. You get ideas from everybody in the team, but when you now think that no other person has an input, who is causing the trouble. Team leaders trying to be team dictators...lol...in my hospital, when was the last time we had a general ward round? Can't even remember! Mtttschhhew...

nobilis: Lol. Thanks for trying to educate us. I won't repeat many things. But as for the duty of a consultant, I will refer you to the article Phantom wrote on pages 2 and 3 of this thread.

I will gladly advise all JOHESUITES to seek the truth at the expense of killing and deadening their consciences. Like I said before, before a doctor is awarded an honorary consultancy, he must have completed a certain number of years of residency training in his chosen specialty. We are talking about a minimum of 5 years here (that is after medical school oo). When he completes residency, he becomes a specialist in his chosen field then he is appointed a consultant.
Recently, some nurses in UCH "arrogated" (permit me to use that word) to themselves, the title of consultant. Did they undergo any specialist training? In what area of the nursing practice are they specialists? Now you get my drift. JOHESUITES want to become consultants without undergoing any specialist training. Now tell me, how is that fair?

You say doctors are withholding the consultancy status for other health professionals. But I want to ask you: what do you expect the doctors to do when it is obvious that you guys are not acting in the best interests of the doctors' patients. Instances have been given where a consultant nurse prevented a consultant plastic surgeon from inspecting his patient's surgical site ( I ask: does this happen abroad? Is this how consultant nurses in the US work?) Another instance has been given where consultant pharmacists invaded the wards cancelling and modifying patient treatment plans without notifying the doctor in charge of such patients. (Does this happen abroad?)
Need I remind you that when a patient is admitted in a hospital, he is admitted under the name of a consultant physician or surgeon(not a consultant nurse or pharmacist). Meaning that the patient is assigned to that particular consultant physician/surgeon whose duty it is to make sure that the patient is treated properly. And that is why if there is any case of patient mismanagement, it is the consultant physician/surgeon who is sued for malpractice.

Now give me one reason why doctors will not fight against appointment of JOHESUITES as consultants. All you JOHESUITES wil shout and say it is because of insecurity and greed. But I ask you: why won't the doctors fight against such consultancy appointments when it is obvious that the only thing you guys want is to assert your authority and disrupt order in the hospitals to the detriment of the patients. Instead of trying to work with the doctors as a team, you guys want to fight with them to show who has the superior say in patient management. No. You guys don't reason that way. The only thing you see is that doctors are hindering your appointments.

As for the banning of the PharmD program, please and please, until there is enough incontrovertible proof that NMA has a hand in NUC's ruling, do not place false accusations on anybody.

Very funny, in the UK, the last wrung of the career ladder is nurse consultant...check it out:

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/explore-by-career/nursing/careers-in-nursing/nurse-consultants/

The truth is this: OUR VARIOUS ALLIED HEALTH PROFESSIONALS ARE GETTING BETTER BY THE DAY THE WORLD OVER, UNLIKE HERE IN NIGERIA WHERE NMA IS TRYING TO STIFLE GROWTH OF OTHER PROFESSIONS. MAY GOD HELP US.

nobilis: You clamor to be granted equal rights and privileges as the medical doctor.
But you do not clamor to have high UTME and postUTME cut off marks like it is for the doctors. But you're comfortable with the lesser cut off marks for admission to study your courses in the university.

You do not clamor to be treated equally with medical students during the course of your training. During the preclinical training years, you guys are given less vigorous treatment than the medical students and you guys are all comfortable with it.

Medical students spend average of 6 to 8 years in medical school (depending on the school) while you guys spend 5 years in school. You do not clamor to at least spend an equal amount of time in school as the doctors. But u clamor to be treated equally.

And you say the doctors are unjust. How can you wish to earn the same salary as someone when you don't do the amount of work the person does? How is that for injustice? Our doctors are accused of being greedy and selfish yet the "health professionals" who are instigating this whole problem are ignored and lauded as saviours of the health sector.

The "amorphous" union called JOHESU allied themselves against doctors. Even hospital works technicians, janitors orderlies are part of JOHESU and they are all clamoring to be heads of hospitals. And I want to ask: what business does a janitor have in heading a hospital? This is to show you the blind greed of JOHESU. And the worst part of it is that those people who are being used by the corrupt few at the helm of affairs of JOHESU seem also blinded. I would really love to see a "consultant" pharmacist or "consultant" nurse sit down and allow a janitor or an orderly to become a chief medical director. And I will also love to see a "consultant" nurse allow herself to earn the same thing as a janitor or an orderly. At least, these will make a case for the relativity of salaries they are clamoring for.

If you provoke them a little bit, they will start to tell you about international best practices. But when the NMA demanded for the post of surgeon general to be created, JOHESU refused. Even though it is obvious that many countries abroad have such positions or the equivalent. Maybe they vehemently rejected it because it is obvious to them that in countries where such positions exist, it is only occupied by physicians.

JOHESU goes on strike and even actively tries to hamper the work of doctors who are trying to look after patients. And they are called saints. Yet when doctors go on strike, they are labelled as murderers. Since you guys want to earn equal pay, this is a perfect opportunity to score points for your agenda. Rise up to the challenge and show us that you can do better than the incompetent doctors.

Is it the work of a "consultant" nurse to prevent a consultant physician or a consultant surgeon from doing his/her work?
Is it the work of a "consultant" pharmacist to cancel and change d course of treatment prescribed by a consultant physician or consultant surgeon without consulting with the physician or surgeon first?
Is it the work of a "consultant" radiographer to prevent the consultant radiologist from reading and interpreting radiological investigations?
Is it the work of a "consultant" lab scientist to cancel and change the order of laboratory tests requested by a consultant physician or consultant surgeon without consulting with the physician or surgeon first?
But this is exactly what is going on in our hospitals and this is the definition of anarchy. Maybe one day we will have consultant janitor, consultant works technician, consultant records clerk, consultant orderly.

And the problem with nigerians is that we are always eager to condemn, to point fingers, eager to criticise and crucify. We don't take the necessary time to look into matters adequately before making judgments. And that is why JOHESU is scoring cheap points with the populace because of their gullibilty and lack of keen reasoning faculties.

Anyways, we will all see how it plays out.

Doctors here please get enlightened.Follow the links below:

http://www.wimbledonclinics.co.uk/consultants/

Anybody see the Consultant Physiotherapist in that sea of doctors?

Follow link to American Association of Consultant Pharmacists here:

https://www.ascp.com/

Consultant Pharmacists in Canada:

http://www.cscpharm.com/

NMA brought in Surgeon General without even knowing the meaning, but are now fighting to withhold consultancy for other health professionals. It's so sad, coming from a so-called body of repute. SMH.... And for your information, other health professionals have been fighting to make their undergraduate courses 6 years for some time now...see what NUC did to D. Pharm with the help of NMA? Some professions take MB with medical students now. And it will get better if only NMA will stop thinking it's their right alone to professionally develops.

Doctors here please get enlightened.Follow the links below:

http://www.wimbledonclinics.co.uk/consultants/

Anybody see the Consultant Physiotherapist in that sea of doctors?

Follow link to American Association of Consultant Pharmacists here:

https://www.ascp.com/

Consultant Pharmacists in Canada:

http://www.cscpharm.com/

NMA brought in Surgeon General without even knowing the meaning, but are now fighting to withhold consultancy for other health professionals. It's so sad, coming from a so-called body of repute. SMH...

Doctors here please get enlightened.Follow the links below:

http://www.wimbledonclinics.co.uk/consultants/

Anybody see the Consultant Physiotherapist in that sea of doctors?

Follow link to American Association of Consultant Pharmacists here:

https://www.ascp.com/

Consultant Pharmacists in Canada:

http://www.cscpharm.com/

NMA brought in Surgeon General without even knowing the meaning, but are now fighting to withhold consultancy for other health professionals. It's so sad, coming from a so-called body of repute. SMH...

...

You're earning N100 as a doctor and I am earning N10 as a pharmacist. I get a new salary of N20 and you say, "No way!" Is that not being selfish?

chimoz: After spending six gruesome years in medical school, surviving mb's upon mb's, depriving myself of fun and pleasure and to God be the glory, I graduated as a medical doctor, you want to enjoy same privilege with me. Why didn't you get the grades good enough to see you through med school or do well in utme so as to gain admission into med school. Mtcheew

This comes from ignorance. Nobody told you to go become a doctor, and nobody will ever enjoy whatever you're enjoying because you will always be the team leader in the health sector. I'm ashamed of your association. Bring that your list of demands and I'll tear it up in this public forum.

Been reading some of the write-ups here and I must say that I am ashamed of what doctors are writing here. They brought in Surgeon General and left out other aspects of the working health sector in other developed countries. Consultancy is not just for doctors. TRUE. Director is not just for Doctors. FACT. Why is NMA so selfish? What is their problem? No other health professional will ever get what doctors are getting, so why the superiority complex?

thepathologist: just as allied health workers are part of british medical association,world medical association ,america med association?
ur info is wrong. every profession has right to form its assocuation. johesu has to form so that strike action could have impart. johesu is political body set up to bring down d doctors. let individual association go on strike separately and see if the strike will be effective. among them it is only nurses strike that can cripple the hospital cos they are bedrock of hospital.

Wow...so nurses are now bedrock of hospital? A little sense at last...

speak2leo: The Last time i checked, CMD means Chief Medical Director, and not Chief Paramedical Director, Chief Pharmaceutical Director, Chief Nursing Director, nor Chief Medlab Director. Dt Position is solely for Doctors. Wanna have dat position?? Go study Medicine, simple!

Why is it that whenever there's an argument on this issue, the doctors here keep telling their opponents to go study medicine if they want to have something? This is blind, if you ask me...I never for once wanted to study medicine. I chose Physiotherapy from the get go. And it's also a sad development. What this means is that most of the doctors here feel that others in the health sector are scums who dropped out from medicine. Any sane human being should stop saying this here. It saddens me, really.

Jummy mine: i dont know whether to laugh or cry at your fallacy. doctors pulled out of johesu?! stop lying and pulling the wool over the eyes of the unsuspecting public. the reason why all of them have to join together againstbthe doctors is that if they go on strike individually, nobody will feel it. shows indeed how important they are for the system!
i dare the pharmacists to go on strike alone, and see if the hospital will stop functioning. same for the physiotherapists and even the labs. in my hospital, all of them have gone on strike individually for months, and the hospital was still running!
thats why they have to team up and gang up against the doctors, asking to be paid as thety are paid and given equal status, as if their jobs are the same. its all part of the nigerian mentally, most people are not actually proud of their jobs, nor satisfied with it. i dare say that many of these lab guys, physios and nurses actually wanted to study medicine, but couldnt for one reason or the other.
i wonr why the beef now?
as i earlier said, privatize, and everybody will know their real level in a private setting.

Stupid. Nobody is jealous of NMA...rather they're jealous of what others are trying to get for their members. NMA's members will continue being the highest paid in the health sector, so why are they advocating for other health workers to be privatized? And who the hell told them that Jump for civil servants is illegal? NMA started this, and it's so sad...

explicit770: For your information,the services of pharmacists in Nigeria are not relevant in our govt hospitals.
And i see no reason why u shd starting calling the Doctors names.
Everybody knows the truth,we go to the hospitals to see Medical Doctors and not Pharmacists(doctor of pharm) and lab Scientists.
And to the best of my knowledge,the very best science students in any set in secondary school read medicine.
It is just unfortunate that there is lawlessness in the land,once a group of people threaten the govt with strikes,govt wld hurriedly succumbed to their demands.
The crisis in the health sector shd be addressed forthwith by allowing international best medical practice.
Enough is enough.

It's so sad that you wrote this. I read it and I felt so ashamed of ever knowing you even exist.

hamedade2000: It's not a matter of monopoly. it's only in a confused country lyk ours dah nurses n lab technicians wld be fighting to become d CMD of hospitals. You myt not av travelled out buh am sure u'll av seen foreign medical movies. av u ever come across 1 in which such has happened. SMH for Nigeria sha....Everything z jez upside down.

The CMD of a hospital should be a doctor, but the CMD of a hospital must come under the CEO of the hospital administration arm. CMDs can be CEOs too, but CEOs can never just be for CMDs. Here in Nigeria, the doctors have cunningly overshadowed the hospital CEO, who is traditionally the Head of Admin, or HAS. You talk of watching foreign films, but your idea of a hospital hierarchy abroad is a biased one.

heykims: Maybe we sud reason ds out.
Why wud all health workers exempting d medical doctors form a union, JOHESU despite d fact dt they all have their individual associations/unions?
What is d motive behind d formation of d union if not to tackle d exempted party, conspiracy??
No shaking NMA......

Another misinformed dolt...why was NMA formed in the first place? NMA was formed because doctors wanted every other profession in the health sector to join them under one association so that they can boss everybody around. Nigeria Medical Association shouldn't include just doctors, see? But this plan didn't work since the other health workers saw through their deceit...

Deblow: Some pple can be parochial and self - centered in their reasoning. Every association recognised by law reserves the right to agitate for the best on behalf of its members and each association is independent of the others. The NMA can not be an exception in this case. The Pharmacists and other paramedical associations are always antagonistic of the doctors out of petty jealousy and sheer inferiority complexes. NMA cares not whenever they confront the government with their own agitation but each time the NMA sneezes, they get jittery. Why don't we address issues other than personalities for once!

This is stupid...nobody is jealous of NMA, rather NMA is jealous of what other unions are getting for their members, despite the fact that NMA members still remain THE HIGHEST PAID IN THE HEALTH SECTOR, AS SHOULD BE THE CASE. Why, for God's sake, is NMA questioning Jump for every other civil service worker? And where did the privatization idea come from? This is pure jealousy and superiority complex, I tell you...